[AppleGirl1990]

Sources close to me have revealed that Snow Leopard is going to be demonstrated today. So Xciting!

[hyteckit]

They aren't really showing off a Snow Leopard. That would rock.

They are just showing off the next release of OS X.

[AppleGirl1990]

With that comment, i see the type of people who supported Palin. thanks for clarifying.

[fisherKing]

oops! not today...too soon. but ilife 09 and iwork 09 look really good, and the 17" macbook is impressive (for those that can afford it)...

[hyteckit]

Snow Leopard did not show up during the MacWorld keynote. But iLife and iWorks did. I'm so excited.

[AppleGirl1990]

iLife = awesome
iWorks = who actually uses it
Snow Leopard = where are you?
Updated iMac = February secret.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990 

iWorks = who actually uses it

Microsoft Office is flying OFF my machine first thing in the morning.

Finally, I can get rid of that piece of ****.

If you're NOT using iWork, you have my sympathies. Unless you're on Office by choice.

In which case, seek help.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Microsoft Office is flying OFF my machine first thing in the morning.

Finally, I can get rid of that piece of ****.

If you're NOT using iWork, you have my sympathies. Unless you're on Office by choice.

In which case, seek help.

wow, spheric harlot...that's TWO POSTS in two minutes where i fully agree with you! (see notebook forum)... pages looks great, and i hate office...

[Ted L. Nancy]

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990 

iWorks = who actually uses it

Me. (And other really really cool people.)

And it's not "iWorks," it's just iWork.

[imitchellg5]

FAIL. WWDC my friends. I'm guessing we'll see the Grand Master there.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

FAIL. WWDC my friends. I'm guessing we'll see the Grand Master there.

Yeah. WWDC is where all the action is at.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

If you're NOT using iWork, you have my sympathies. Unless you're on Office by choice.

Please call me once Numbers supports array formulas and Pivot tables.

Until then, sorry, it would break 50% of my spreadsheets.

-t

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Please call me once Numbers supports array formulas and Pivot tables.

Until then, sorry, it would break 50% of my spreadsheets.

-t

ha, realize i only need pages...the rest of iwork needs work then? oops...

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Please call me once Numbers supports array formulas and Pivot tables.

Until then, sorry, it would break 50% of my spreadsheets.

Those advanced may have been added - you can't tell from the consumer focused keynote summaries. They could be in one of the "250 new features." If not, you've sent Apple feedback, right?

iWork is a really a great package, and '09 seems like a really impressive upgrade, as does iLife '09. This may not have been a knock your socks off super thrills keynote, but there were a lot of positive developments. And yeah, SL will obviously be the focus of WWDC.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Please call me once Numbers supports array formulas and Pivot tables.

Until then, sorry, it would break 50% of my spreadsheets.

-t

Fwiw, Apple lists the formulas it supports in '09 here:

http://www.apple.com/uk/iwork/numbers/functions.html

[Simon]

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990 

Sources close to me have revealed that Snow Leopard is going to be demonstrated today. So Xciting!

I guess you now know what those sources are worth.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990 

iLife iWork = awesome
iWorks iLife = who actually uses it

Fixed that.

PowerPoint can't hold a candle to Keynote and yet it costs twice as much. If iWork were nothing but Keynote I'd still get. At $79 it's probably the best bang-for-buck ratio I have ever seen in any commercial software.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Fixed that.

PowerPoint can't hold a candle to Keynote and yet it costs twice as much. If iWork were nothing but Keynote I'd still get. At $79 it's probably the best bang-for-buck ratio I have ever seen in any commercial software.

At one time iWork WAS just Keynote, if you'll recall. And it was $99, I believe. I bought it. And I've used it ever since for my presentations.

[Big Mac]

Not exactly Person Man, Keynote was originally stand-alone and just sold as Keynote. Then Pages was introduced, and both of them were included as the iWork suite.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Please call me once Numbers supports array formulas and Pivot tables.

Until then, sorry, it would break 50% of my spreadsheets.

Have you tried the new version?

Free download on the Apple homepage.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Not exactly Person Man, Keynote was originally stand-alone and just sold as Keynote. Then Pages was introduced, and both of them were included as the iWork suite.

Yes, I know that. They didn't start calling it iWork until Pages came on the scene. I've been using Keynote since it was version 1.

The last time I used PowerPoint, it was because I was forced to. I was told I couldn't bring my own laptop for a presentation... they were using theirs and that was that, and I had to use their PowerPoint. They couldn't tell me what version they had. I didn't want to leave anything to chance so I used PowerPoint 2003 in Windows, and stuck with a default template and default fonts (i.e. UGLY).

Come the day of the presentation, it was a nightmare. They had a much older version of PowerPoint (XP, I think). Half of my images didn't show. Then the computer froze in the middle. The conference organizers said "paper copies weren't necessary." I muddled my way through and at the end I told them that unless I could use my OWN equipment next time I was never going to present for them again. Haven't heard back from them since.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by JKT 

Fwiw, Apple lists the formulas it supports in '09 here:

http://www.apple.com/uk/iwork/numbers/functions.html

Power formulas is NOT just specific formulas, it's a METHOD of using any formula and apply it to an array of numbers. It's also known as array formulas or CSE formulas (because you enter them with Ctrl + Shift + Enter in Excel).

As far as I can see it, Numbers does not support it, but I'll have to do a test run when I get back home to my Mac.

It's a very, very, very powerful tool, but I would estimate that less than 1% of all Excel users even know about it. Here is an example:



The power formula basically replaces ALL the formulas in the range C1 - C7.

-t

[ibook_steve]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about Snow Leopard. Please keep it on target or post in the Applications forum where there are already threads about iWork '09.

Steve

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ibook_steve 

I thought this thread was supposed to be about Snow Leopard. Please keep it on target or post in the Applications forum where there are already threads about iWork '09.

Steve

Well, the thread starter, AppleGirl1990, sent us on that tangent with her comment

iWorks = who actually uses it
Snow Leopard = where are you?

So, what are we supposed to do ? Ignore it ? Start a new thread by ourselves, or discuss what she had posted about ?

I wouldn't mind having this thread separated, since really only 3 posts refer to SL.
But I'm not going to suddenly post replies to posts in this thread to a different thread somewhere else.

-t

[hyteckit]

Well, Snow Leopard didn't happened, so this thread became an orphan. Out of the kindness in our hearts, we adopted the orphan as our own. You wouldn't be against adopting orphans would you?

[turtle777]

-t

[AppleGirl1990]

I appologize for the mis-infomation regarding SL.
I will lockup my source in the basement and beat him with my tennis racket.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990 

I appologize for the mis-infomation regarding SL.
I will lockup my source in the basement and beat him with my tennis racket.

Good. Please post some pics when done.

-t

[Simon]

Pics? Youtube clip!

[Hal Itosis]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Power formulas is NOT just specific formulas, it's a METHOD of using any formula and apply it to an array of numbers. As far as I can see it, Numbers does not support it, but I'll have to do a test run when I get back home to my Mac. It's a very, very, very powerful tool, but I would estimate that less than 1% of all Excel users even know about it.

The power formula basically replaces ALL the formulas in the range C1 - C7.

 
I'm trying to appreciate what that really accomplishes in the end. There is no "time" saved (at least not for the part described thus far), because you still had to spend the time it took to create the formulas in cells C1 - C7... just to get the same result you already had. I suppose the next step you'd talk about is going back and deleting cells C1 - C7 to free up some "space"? Is that the perceived advantage? Okay, I'll buy that (maybe).

It will seem to some that that space savings simplifies the final spreadsheet. But others could see that reduction as actually making certain spreadsheets harder to develop as well. (it'll depend on how complex all the various sub-formulas are, for any particular application). The common practice of placing assorted sub-calculations over into columns outside the margins of the printed page may not look pretty... but in some (most?) cases, that scenario is probably easier to debug (or tweak perhaps), since folks don't have to deal with several super, super, super-long formulas to sift through.

Perhaps there's a reason only 1% of Excel users are aware of CSE formulas... and maybe even less than that truly need it. It might look cool, granted. But -- in practice -- that would not be a pivotal part of whether or not I purchased Numbers.

--

Snow Leopard... yes!!! So, when can i get it?? ( <--- see, still on topic )

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Hal Itosis 

 
I'm trying to appreciate what that really accomplishes in the end. There is no "time" saved (at least not for the part described thus far), because you still had to spend the time it took to create the formulas in cells C1 - C7... just to get the same result you already had. I suppose the next step you'd talk about is going back and deleting cells C1 - C7 to free up some "space"? Is that the perceived advantage? Okay, I'll buy that (maybe).

No, I just presented a very simple example. You can go so much deeper with Power formulas.

Ever used SUMIF ? It can total one column based on ONE condition in one other column. Well, with Power formulas, you can easily implement SUMIFs with MULTIPLE conditions, or mix & match *ANY* formula result as a condition - e.g. a condition of SUMIF, COUNTIF, "AVERAGEIF", or any logical expression, for that matter.

Look at this example: summing up based on TWO logical expressions:



It can't be done simply without Power formulas.
Yes, it could be done in a different way, but only with *massive* extra columns of sub calculations. At that point, you might want to resort to Pivot tables, but oh, oh no, Numbers doesn't have those either.

Oh, and Snow Leopard is still way cool

-t

[kman42]

No pivot tables in Numbers, but it does have categories, which does something similar. It's not exactly the same, but it gets at sort of the first level of what pivot tables do. Probably enough for most users and it is almost enough for me. You can perform averages and a few other simple calculations on a category or sub-category, but you can't do standard deviations or include several calculations (like a subtotal row).

[Hal Itosis]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

No, I just presented a very simple example. You can go so much deeper with Power formulas. Ever used SUMIF ? It can total one column based on ONE condition in one other column. Well, with Power formulas, you can easily implement SUMIFs with MULTIPLE conditions, or mix & match *ANY* formula result as a condition - e.g. a condition of SUMIF, COUNTIF, "AVERAGEIF", or any logical expression, for that matter. Look at this example: summing up based on TWO logical expressions:

[image]

It can't be done simply without Power formulas.

I am intrigued... but not quite able to follow, without knowing how cell C30 got configured that way.
Are you saying all you did was "Ctrl+Shift+Enter" into cell C30, and that complete formula appeared?
If so, how in the hell did it know that's exactly what was needed there? Was that the only possible outcome?

Plus... I'm also not seeing much practical use in that particular example.
It appears somewhat abstract (to say the least). You know, spreadsheets
don't handle second order non-linear differential equations too well either...
but then again, the need rarely arises. Got a real-world example folks can relate to?

[Snow Leopard, etc.]

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Hal Itosis 

Got a real-world example folks can relate to?

[Snow Leopard, etc.]

Well, a good example would be if you have matrix with sales data of sales from different production sites (site A, site B, site C, site D), and various product groups (product group 1, product group 2, product group 3). In addition, let's say there's also information on the month (Jan, Feb, Mar...) that the sales relate to.

So, with the Power Formula, you can essentially create a formula that says this:

SUM IF
production site = B
product group = 2
month = Feb

all in one formula.

Let's say the matrix has the following format:

production site = column A
product group = column B
month = column C
sales = column D

The formula would be

={SUM(IF(column A="production site B",IF(column B="product group 2",IF(column C="Feb",column C,""))))

Essentially, you can put into one formula a complex query in a similar way that PIVOT tables "grab" data out of a matrix.

But what's even better: instead of having to "hard wire" the conditions into the formula, you can reference secondary cells. It's really useful if you have some cells that you want to change quickly (e.g. a cell conatining the month), and have the SUM result of the sales be calculated based on the month you enter in that cell.

PM me with your email address and I'll send you an example Excel sheet.

-t

[AppleGirl1990]

This is why i leave the heavy lifting to you boys.

[clockworkwar]

iWork for keynote is awesome, as for Pages I may start to use it more now.