[turtle777]

A default webbrowser page is bad because many people don't even pay attention to it.

They are so used to the browser company linking to their own website, people will change this w/o even paying attention. I'm not saying this is good, but realistically, promoting this through a default browser web page is not effective.

-t

[Jasoco]

No, that wouldn't do any good because the whole argument is because no one knows that menu option is in there. I think the menu does its job fine, as long as people can find it. It just links to Apple's own software listing. Which is fine the way it is. It just needs to be put in a more noticable place. There's no need for an App Store, maybe more a need for a better way for people who want to sell their apps but don't have a host, but it doesn't need a new app. It just needs a URL located in a more accessible location. Like the Dock.

The whole point is getting new Mac users to find new apps easier. Not creating a new method for browsing the list.

Just put it in the Setup Assistant as a button that launches Safari to the URL.

[Big Mac]

There can be a few different ways to get there. Millions find their way to the iTunes Store without being computer savvy, so I think to concentrate on how Apple would promote this hypothetical store is similar to worrying about what kind of leash to get for a dog you don't have.

[Jasoco]

Which begs the question, how DO you get a leash for a dog you don't own? Maybe I should Google it on Bing.

[Simon]

OMG. People! Listen to yourselves. Instead of discussing what kind of awesome new features you'd want to have in OS X 10.7 you're bickering over a stupid app store icon or menu placement. Good grief.

OTOH that might just be the best testament ever made as to OS X being feature complete.

[Jasoco]

I tried to stop it a few posts ago, but they kept on arguing about it!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Jasoco 

I tried to stop it a few posts ago, but then I decided that I wanted to keep on arguing about it!

Fixed.

-t

[Jasoco]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Fixed.

-t

Nice try. I tried to end it.

Originally Posted by Jasoco 

Let's change the subject though. I don't like the bad karma. And I want to talk about features I'd like to see in, oh, three years or so whenever 10.7 ends up coming out.

Then Salty decided to keep going even after it had ended.

Originally Posted by Salty 

I don't think you understand. The idea of a Finder app store, is that within the very place where people go and check out their file system and what not, there would be a little button that said STORE or APP STORE or something. This feature isn't for people who know about MacUpdate or VersionTracker, it's for people like my mom who think hmmm I want a program that does THIS.
...

So I tried to END IT AGAIN.

Originally Posted by Jasoco 

I guess I could live with that. When you put it that way.

I've been trying to end this conversation.

So.. Let's STOP TALKING ABOUT AN APP STORE. And start talking about features we want to see in 10.7 that actually have a chance of coming true.

[turtle777]

I think it's always funny how people want to make their point, and then they decide the discussion is over, so they conveniently have the last word.

Ah, whatever. It's teh intarwebs.

-t

[Jasoco]

And I think it's funny how when someone tries to end the argument by having the "last word" the other person/people decide to keep it going.

[besson3c]

Ahhh.. you can't buy this sort of bickering from an app store.

[Jasoco]

There's no app for that?

[cgc]

Originally Posted by Salty 

Nobody's suggesting that Apple begin making that Mac a gated community where only apps that Apple approves work. What I'm suggesting is a place where new users who wants a basic program to edit their pictures can go and find a copy of Pixelmator, or where someone who wants a more complicated organizing tool can go find Omni Outliner. It's about providing a way for mac developers to get their wares out to people who want them so that people don't feel a need to bitch about Apple not having integrated a feature into iLife or OS X.

Apple can't suddenly go back and say that all working apps require permission from the iTunes server to work, but they could provide a reasonable and easy to manage DRM service for app developers so you could be sure that while the app you buy is protected against piracy for the developer it's not disruptive for you to use it.

IUf you go to the Apple Menu there's an option called "Mac OS X Software..." that takes you to Apple-->Downloads. Seems good enough...

[Chuckit]

I think there's definitely a chance of an App Store happening in 10.7. A pretty good chance, actually.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Jasoco 

There's no app for that?

I guess the obvious joke would be to suggest that it be called iBicker?

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Not really. If it's a fluid-width layout, why would you NOT want it to take up more space? These very forums are a great example - I'd much rather be able to see as much content on 'NN as possible at one time, rather than being restricted to an arbitrary size that OS X chooses for me.

You can't reliably choose an appropriate size to maximize a window "based on content". It makes a hell of a lot more sense for maximize to actually maximize, and if you prefer a different window size, to simply resize it yourself. I've found that OS X's half-assed implementation of maximization is too unpredictable to use regularly.

I doubt that I'm the only OS X user who wants the ability to maximize windows normally. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it - but it's not a good reason to not include the option at all.

OK, a few things.

The Human Interface (Engineers/Artists?) realized that if you fully expand a window, it will greatly slow down your reading speed. Humans read better in columns where we can see both edges of the text (like a piece of paper), and it's also physically impossible to speed read if you cannot see the edges. I believe this was the reasoning Apple gave for not going with maximizing, knowing some people had huge monitors, and they were only going to get bigger in the future.

I've been led to believe that resolution independence is in Leopard. It's enabled by the developer if they want in each application. Also, I understand the reason why they do this is because not all video cards render fonts the same way meaning it can destroy an application's layout. You can prove this to yourself with the developer tools. (I can't remember the app, but you can zoom and force every application into the RI mode. Most look like crap.)

I agree with ZFS though. Bring it on.

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob 

I've been led to believe that resolution independence is in Leopard. It's enabled by the developer if they want in each application. Also, I understand the reason why they do this is because not all video cards render fonts the same way meaning it can destroy an application's layout. You can prove this to yourself with the developer tools. (I can't remember the app, but you can zoom and force every application into the RI mode. Most look like crap.)

Yeah, it turns out true resolution independence is a much tougher nut to crack than was previously anticipated. The app you're thinking of is Quartz Debug, located at /Developer/Applications/Performance Tools/ (assuming you have the dev tools installed). You can always try turning on the RI, but a LOT of things break.

Granted, it's a little better in Leopard than in Tiger, and it'll probably be even more usable in SL, but it's still not ready for prime time. Nor will it be, at least in the foreseeable future (at least in my opinion). Simply put, too many apps use weird, custom drawing to put pixels on the screen, most of which simply can't be predicted by the OS.

This is yet another reason why Apple is trying to slowly deprecate Carbon -- it's much easier to do unusual UI things in Carbon than in Cocoa.

[besson3c]

shif: I think that maybe you are stuck on some habits? Apple's HCID guys are right about legibility with wide columns, which is why text heavy websites such as the New York Times are designed to preserve columns against a fixed width. However, even beyond this, I think there is just some learned behavior at play here. I've never felt the urge to maximize to full size, because I forget that I can that way. I just go for the lower right hand corner resize widget. Even when I'm using Ubuntu and the maximize thing is there, I never use it.

I'm not suggesting that you should be like me or that I'm superior or something (well, I am, but that's besides the point), but simply that you can get used to not having it.

That being said, the current green widget is completely pointless IMHO... drinkingr design.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I guess the obvious joke would be to suggest that it be called iBicker?

*runs to register domain*

-t

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

drinkingr design.

Are you sure it's not ponys and rainbowsr design?

[Big Mac]

More requests from me:

1) Truly separate Spatial and Browser modes in the Finder
2) Menu-tasking across all Apple applications, most importantly the Finder (I'm hoping this happened in SL) - small gripe I realize, but it annoys me and harkens back to cooperative multitasking
3) New FS so that Time Machine works better (my TM drive's directory is heavily corrupted, and I think the cause of it is TM and its deficiencies)
4) Make the Apple Menu be owned by the system instead of the application so that a frozen app doesn't make the Apple menu inaccessible

[P]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

More requests from me:

1) Truly separate Spatial and Browser modes in the Finder

Yes, please. Also make deleting/unmounting a folder close that window instead of pointing it to another random point of the directory.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

2) Menu-tasking across all Apple applications, most importantly the Finder (I'm hoping this happened in SL) - small gripe I realize, but it annoys me and harkens back to cooperative multitasking

No thanks. That risks making the system less Snappy™, especially on the netbook-type laptops that I suspect Apple will eventually launch.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

3) New FS so that Time Machine works better (my TM drive's directory is heavily corrupted, and I think the cause of it is TM and its deficiencies)

New FS is needed for so many reasons.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

4) Make the Apple Menu be owned by the system instead of the application so that a frozen app doesn't make the Apple menu inaccessible

No big deal - you can always just switch to another app.

In the same vein:

5) Make clicking on a disabled menu option pop-up a tooltip explaining why the item is disabled
6) Something to finally replace windowshade for a quick peek under a window.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

1) Truly separate Spatial and Browser modes in the Finder

Does anyone still use the spatial version of the Finder? Or are you complaining because you don't like using the browser version that is polluted with some spatial features?

[P]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Does anyone still use the spatial version of the Finder? Or are you complaining because you don't like using the browser version that is polluted with some spatial features?

I do. It's superior if you have the ability to organize things yourself - the browser version is better if you have to work with those insanely deep directory trees that some people are so fond of, or if you work with un-organized files. The combination with Coverflow is also quite powerful - I can have each image folder as a Coverflow, but navigate to those folders with a space-efficient list or column view.

The reason I want them split is because I can easily see myself using the browser for basic tasks, but I need the spatial interface sometimes. It's hard to make a clean flip, and 10.5 made it worse. The column view does present something inbetween, and is very useful for the applications folder where almost all you do is launch files. The current setup is columns for applications and list views for the rest - I'd prefer to have something like columns for everything but with the ability to move to a traditional spatial setup temporarily.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by P 

No thanks. That risks making the system less Snappy™, especially on the netbook-type laptops that I suspect Apple will eventually launch.

Not really.

[Jasoco]

Originally Posted by P 

I do. It's superior if you have the ability to organize things yourself - the browser version is better if you have to work with those insanely deep directory trees that some people are so fond of, or if you work with un-organized files. The combination with Coverflow is also quite powerful - I can have each image folder as a Coverflow, but navigate to those folders with a space-efficient list or column view.

The reason I want them split is because I can easily see myself using the browser for basic tasks, but I need the spatial interface sometimes. It's hard to make a clean flip, and 10.5 made it worse. The column view does present something inbetween, and is very useful for the applications folder where almost all you do is launch files. The current setup is columns for applications and list views for the rest - I'd prefer to have something like columns for everything but with the ability to move to a traditional spatial setup temporarily.

I agree. I hate how the damn sidebar keeps taking over when I don't want it to and folders I specifically resize just how I want them to be end up changed without me asking for it. They made it more annoying in Snow Leopard in that it now remembers the size the window was when it had a sidebar and the folder changes to that size when you are looking at the folder without the sidebar. Making me have to resize it to how I had it before yet again.

If only I could lock the .DS_Store file once I have it how I want it to be. Though I hate to think of the problems it might cause if the Finder tries to change it.

I will go so far as to say I both love the sidebar and hate it at the same time. It is good for occasional digging through big folder trees but just annoys the hell out of me when I don't want it to appear at all! WTF, Apple? It's like the POS coverflow view. It's not the be all and end all of awesome features! Stop putting so much stake into these two features.

[Salty]

For the record the best place for an App Store icon is obviously in the finder side bar.

[LeeG]

Ok. I know these have been discussed already, but i need to add my +1 because of how damn annoying and frustrating it is.

I am assuming everyone's point about mail not working is the same as mine: IMAP accounts do not correctly update, yes? I use Gmail via IMAP, and will come home and find 20 unread messages in mail, that have all been read throughout the day - mail.app does not work right...FIX IT. The iphone mail.app works fine.

I am also using a 2.8GHZ Core2Duo with 4Gb of Ram, and will find the machine randomly beachball on me when I am doing NOTHING in particular (opening a finder window, save dialog boxes, etc)... I would love to see something like this happen during a macworld demo.

If they could fix this crap first I would be MOST happy.