[dzp111]

My hard drive notified me that it only had a few hundreds of MB left. Which is weird since I make point of checking my Disk usage regularly.

So I used Disk Inventory X and found 2 documents at 2 Gigs each (see below). I don't recall ever seeing these before. They're also on my backup clone.

Can anyone identify these files? Should I delete them? I attempted to delete from Disk Inventory but it said I've not the permission to do so.

I emptied my trash and re-booted, but they remain there.

[Spheric Harlot]

Sleepimage is the file that you Mac dumps the entire contents of the RAM into when you put it to sleep, so that you don't lose any data when the battery dies before you wake it up again.

It needs to be exactly as big as the ram installed into your machine.

[Cold Warrior]

Spheric is correct. If you are the point where it is notifying you and you are having to scour the drive for files to delete, then your hard drive is too full and you should consider upgrading it. Deleting stuff now though is an ok triage to prevent it from filling beyond what the system needs free.

[reader50]

Log in as the root user and delete the daily.out file. It's a logfile, and shouldn't be that big. Mine is 428 KB. Your background maintenance tasks may not be running to archive and presently delete your logs.

Second the motion by Cold Warrior. It's time for you to buy a bigger hard drive.

[dzp111]

Thanks Reader50.

Could you give me step by step instructions to accomplish your suggestion? I don't recall ever logging in a root user. And I'm not clear which library that file is in.

Thanks.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Log in as the root user and delete the daily.out file. It's a logfile, and shouldn't be that big. Mine is 428 KB. Your background maintenance tasks may not be running to archive and presently delete your logs.

PLEASE DON'T LOG IN AS ROOT.

Just use the "Go" --> "Go to Folder…" menu item in the Finder to go to /private/var/log/ and then delete daily.out from there.

You will be prompted for an admin password, but that's it.

[dzp111]

Just tried. I'm getting the following:

The folder “daily.out” can’t be opened because you don’t have permission to see its contents.

(I am logged in as the admin)

[reader50]

In order to delete a file owned by root, you have to be the root user. The root account is generally used to resolve troubleshooting issues exactly like this.

You need to enable the root account and set a password, before it becomes available. Under 10.5 - 10.6, go to Applications/Utilities/Directory Utility.app (under 10.0 - 10.4 go to Applications/Utilities/Netinfo Manager.app)

Click the lock and authenticate with an admin name/pass. Then go to Edit -> Enable Root User. It will require you to set a password. (in Netinfo Manager under 10.0 - 10.4 the option will be in the Security menu).

Once enabled, you can log in as root from the Login window. It doesn't show as a user icon, you need to click the "Other..." option to get a text field login. Put in "root" and the pass you just set.

In the root Finder, Go -> Go to Folder ... -> /private/var/log/ -> move daily.out to the trash.
Reboot.
Log into the root account again, empty trash.
Log out of the root account.
If you're really paranoid, go back into Directory Utility (or Netinfo Manager) and disable the root account until the next time you need it.

Spheric is worried that you'll hose your system while logged in as root. Say, by launching a virus, deleting essential System folders, or trashing files in the hidden *nix folders. So please don't do those things. I'll help by not offering instructions on how to do those things.

Numerous people are unnecessarily fearful of using the root account. It's there to solve problems, so my opinion is to use it when you need to.

[dzp111]

Under 10.5 - 10.6, go to Applications/Utilities/Directory Utility.app

Thanks Reader50. But There is no such App in my Utilities folder (?)

Running 10.6.4

[turtle777]

Why not use the terminal to su rm that file ?

-t

[Art Vandelay]

Good God! Just move the file to the Trash. When prompted with an authentication dialog, provide an admin user's credentials. There is absolutely no need to enable the root account. You don't even need to be logged in as an admin. A non-admin user can do this provided they know the admin's credentials.

By the way, I'm not afraid of the root account. However, as a network admin for the last 15 years, I've never had to enable the root account on an OS X computer. There simply is no need to.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by dzp111 

Just tried. I'm getting the following:

The folder “daily.out” can’t be opened because you don’t have permission to see its contents.

(I am logged in as the admin)

Move it to the Trash, not open it.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by reader50 

In order to delete a file owned by root, you have to be the root user.

NO YOU DO NOT.

Jeez, man: You can navigate to the folder, drag the damn file to the trash, enter your admin password, and empty the trash.

THAT'S IT.

Try it!

Spheric is worried that you'll hose your system while logged in as root. Say, by launching a virus, deleting essential System folders, or trashing files in the hidden *nix folders. So please don't do those things. I'll help by not offering instructions on how to do those things.

Numerous people are unnecessarily fearful of using the root account. It's there to solve problems, so my opinion is to use it when you need to.

Yeah - it's an absolutely great idea to go COMPLETELY over a user's head and tell him not to be afraid to enable and judiciously use the root user, even recommending he use a tool that the default system DOESN'T EVEN HAVE INSTALLED.

Brilliant.

Because somebody who has no clue what "sleepimage" or "daily.out" are is really really unlikely to just go hunting through the directory tree while logged in as root, thereby probably unfixably (to him) botching up permissions and access control lists.

Seriously:

Consider your audience, and when somebody else recommends a dead-simple solution, at least TRY IT before handing somebody a loaded gun, okay?

Sorry if this seems a little off, but this kind of thing really ticks me off.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

use a tool that the default system DOESN'T EVEN HAVE INSTALLED.

Actually, 10.6 still has Directory Utility. It's just been buried in the OS. It is also accessible via System Prefs.

Ditto on the rest of what you said.

[reader50]

Apparently, the Finder will authenticate (from an admin account) and allow you to trash the file. Based on it's permissions, I'd expected an admin Finder to authenticate, then copy the file to the Trash. Which you might not have the free space for.

turtle, "su" won't work for root access unless you enable the root account.

In 10.6, Apple changed where you enable root once again. They hid it in System Preferences / Accounts this time. Apple provides instructions here.

I've noticed that old *nix hands go ballistic about enabling the root account for convenient maintenance, often suggesting involved Terminal workarounds instead. Likewise for system administrators. It's like a religion; you can't argue with them. It's your personal computer, so I'd suggest making your own calls about how you choose to maintain it.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Apparently, the Finder will authenticate (from an admin account) and allow you to trash the file. Based on it's permissions, I'd expected an admin Finder to authenticate, then copy the file to the Trash. Which you might not have the free space for.

Wrong. Any user can authenticate, not just admin users.

turtle, "su" won't work for root access unless you enable the root account.

Correct, but sudo will work without turning on the root account.

I've noticed that old *nix hands go ballistic about enabling the root account for convenient maintenance, often suggesting involved Terminal workarounds instead. Likewise for system administrators. It's like a religion; you can't argue with them. It's your personal computer, so I'd suggest making your own calls about how you choose to maintain it.

I'm not an old *nix hand, I'm an old Mac hand. Also, I don't see how using the Finder is an involved Terminal workaround. Further, I could care less about someone enabling the root account on their Mac. What annoys the hell out of me is when someone recommends it for something that can be done in a much simpler, safer way.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Apparently, the Finder will authenticate (from an admin account) and allow you to trash the file. Based on it's permissions, I'd expected an admin Finder to authenticate, then copy the file to the Trash. Which you might not have the free space for.

I haven't tried it from a non-admin account, but I see no reason why it shouldn't do what it does for every other admin function: Require you to enter an admin name AND a password (an admin account will suggest an admin name) and then work normally.

Originally Posted by reader50 

turtle, "su" won't work for root access unless you enable the root account.

No, but "sudo" will.

Originally Posted by reader50 

I've noticed that old *nix hands go ballistic about enabling the root account for convenient maintenance, often suggesting involved Terminal workarounds instead. Likewise for system administrators. It's like a religion; you can't argue with them. It's your personal computer, so I'd suggest making your own calls about how you choose to maintain it.

I'm not an "old *nix hand" by any means.

I just have to look at (and fix) machines with decidedly ODD symptoms and wonky dysfunctions that clients show me, and it's uncanny how often these obviously unsavvy users will mention something about a "root user" tip they read on MacOSXHints or some other forum when prodded.

You may also notice that many old medics and ambulance personnel go ballistic about not wearing a seatbelt for practical reasons. You can't argue with them, either.

I'm not sure whether it's experience and years of having seen the ****ed up results or "like a religion", but I have my theories.


And if a sys admin will jump through Terminal hoops instead of enabling root, you can bet he's ****ed up at least one crucial system in his lifetime, or been there when it happened accidentally.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by reader50 

turtle, "su" won't work for root access unless you enable the root account.

Sorry, I meant sudo.

Sudo lets you change file ownership to root even if the root account is disabled. Yes, I tested it.

Code:
sudo chown root:wheel dummy.txt

You only need to provide admin credentials.

Also, you can then

Code:
sudo rm dummy.txt

w/o any problems.

Therefore, there is absolutely no need to enable root.


Edit:Aarg, dangit. Several others beat me to it.


-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

What annoys the hell out of me is when someone recommends it for something that can be done in a much simpler, safer way.

Thou art my nutshell.*




*) purely platonic, I assure thee.

[turtle777]

Well, the advice could have been worse.

[MS hotline]
Sorry, you have to reinstall your system
[/MS hotline]

-t

[reader50]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Apparently, the Finder will authenticate (from an admin account) and allow you to trash the file.

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Wrong. Any user can authenticate, not just admin users.

Not quite wrong. You still need to authenticate with an admin name/pass. Admittedly, I should have written "as an admin account" instead of "from".

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Why not use the terminal to su rm that file ?

Originally Posted by reader50 

turtle, "su" won't work for root access unless you enable the root account.

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Correct, but sudo will work without turning on the root account.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

No, but "sudo" will.

You guys can't nick me on this one. turtle suggested "su rm" to switch to the user called "rm". Most systems don't have a user by that name.

note: I'm not a fan of sudo working when the root account is disabled. You shouldn't be able to issue commands from a disabled account, that is counter-intuitive.

This is turning into quite a popular (and really fast) thread.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Why not use the terminal to su rm that file ?

-t

You mean sudo rm. su rm = switch user to user "rm"

[dzp111]

Damn it! I can't for the life of me find that daily.out document. I pretty much searched in every Systems and Libraries folders. And Spotlight is useless.

I'm not comfortable with Terminal or root but I might have no choice if I can't find that file and try deleting it.

BTW, I was able to free up 5 GB by getting rid of some of my useless apps and their associated files.

[Spheric Harlot]

did this get buried in the deluge of useless info?

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Just use the "Go" --> "Go to Folder…" menu item in the Finder to go to /private/var/log/ and then delete daily.out from there.

You will be prompted for an admin password, but that's it.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Well, the advice could have been worse.

[MS hotline]
Sorry, you have to reinstall your system
[/MS hotline]

-t

Reader's instructions, for all practical purposes, would eventually amount to the same thing.

[dzp111]

Got it! Success!!!


As mentioned by Spheric Harlot, I typed in what he said, but this time without the /daily.out part. (my bad)

Hey I really appreciate your patience with this guys/gals.

Thank you so much.


Daniel

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

did this get buried in the deluge of useless info?

Why are you as upset as you seem to be?

[ghporter]

dzp, glad your problem has been at least addressed. The daily.out file though is just part of the issue. You probably have a ton of logs, plenty of duplicate documents and all sorts of other crap files that you can ditch. Now I'm going to add to your query: how should one safely examine and safely delete useless files such as logs and duplicates without having to pour through folder listings over and over? Is there a Terminal command that will find dupes? Where should one look for most log files, and what logs should be kept?

I'm kind of with reader50 on the whole "log in as root" issue-as long as you log out after you accomplish the dirty work. I really think adding that to the instructions should have quieted the qualms of all the *nix mavens, since then it would be obvious that the suggestion was a VERY temporary use of the root user for something that is much easier to do AS root. Really, "log in as root, drag the file to Trash, log out" is way simpler than using sudo, and while authenticating may handle the issue, I'm not 100% certain that every OS X installation will accept "drag someone else's file to Trash IF it's authenticated." Too many variables in files and installations for that to be certain, in my opinion. With "log in as root" there is only one: is the root user enabled?"

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

dzp, glad your problem has been at least addressed. The daily.out file though is just part of the issue. You probably have a ton of logs, plenty of duplicate documents and all sorts of other crap files that you can ditch. Now I'm going to add to your query: how should one safely examine and safely delete useless files such as logs and duplicates without having to pour through folder listings over and over? Is there a Terminal command that will find dupes? Where should one look for most log files, and what logs should be kept?

Unix log files are all kept in /var/log or /private/var/log in the case of OS X (/var is a symlink to /private/var in OS X). If you do not wish to keep logs on your machine or you don't have the know-to to analyze them, they can be turned over/deleted at any time. You can look to see how much space is being used in any directory via the following Unix command:

du -sh /path/to/folder

e.g.

sudo du -sh /var/log

or:

sudo du -sh /var/log/*

You can pipe the output to the sort command to put the largest files at the top:

sudo du -k /var/log/* | sort -nr

This is pretty much all tools like OmniDiskSweeper do, AFAIK.

I'm kind of with reader50 on the whole "log in as root" issue-as long as you log out after you accomplish the dirty work. I really think adding that to the instructions should have quieted the qualms of all the *nix mavens, since then it would be obvious that the suggestion was a VERY temporary use of the root user for something that is much easier to do AS root. Really, "log in as root, drag the file to Trash, log out" is way simpler than using sudo, and while authenticating may handle the issue, I'm not 100% certain that every OS X installation will accept "drag someone else's file to Trash IF it's authenticated." Too many variables in files and installations for that to be certain, in my opinion. With "log in as root" there is only one: is the root user enabled?"

As long as you know exactly what the command you are running is supposed to do, and as long as you have tested it in a safe environment if you aren't certain, there is no logic behind these sorts of irrational fears of root (OMG, root will completely destroy everything! BEWARE!!) Most people brainlessly enter their passwords when prompted in the GUI anyway, which authenticates to temporarily become root. If any we should be more fearful of some GUI prompt where we have no idea what command is being run as opposed to an explicit command you run yourself in the Terminal - again, as long as you can look at the syntax and know exactly what it means. What you should *never* do is just copy and paste in some random commands you find on the internet without understanding them, unless you know for certain that they just output stuff and do not make any changes.

As far as the root user in OS X, I don't see the point as a matter of convenience. Why not just use sudo or sudo su in the Terminal? Why the logout/login? Seems like a waste of time to me, but that's just me.

[dzp111]

Can I ask a (maybe stupid) question?

Why couldn't I find that file in Spotlight? Are its limitations configurable?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Why are you as upset as you seem to be?

Because your (and reader's) attitude of completely ignoring the mindset of the end user is damaging to the platform.

Because that's *exactly* what causes endless confusion and frustration in users who end up being AFRAID of their computers.

Because I'm the clean-up guy for the mess you leave in normal people's heads.

And because "Oh no, not this shit again" is not a fun thing to think.

I'd be stunned if you had the slightest clue what I'm talking about.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by dzp111 

Can I ask a (maybe stupid) question?

Why couldn't I find that file in Spotlight? Are its limitations configurable?

Ask away. Disagreements about answers aside, questions are a great way to learn things.

Spotlight does not index most system files. It indexes your user folder, and a few other locations a user is expected to go, like Applications and System Prefs. If I want results from other system locations, then I use EasyFind to do a live (non-indexed) search. Live searches do take longer.

Spotlight lets you exclude additional locations (in Sys Prefs / Spotlight / Privacy) but it doesn't allow you to add locations. Using some Terminal commands (or SpotlightIndexer) you can force the indexing of system locations, but Spotlight doesn't maintain those indexes. You'd have to periodically do manual reindexing to keep those locations up to date in search results.

Spotlight's exclusions of system files are probably outlined in a system plist file somewhere.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by dzp111 

Can I ask a (maybe stupid) question?

Why couldn't I find that file in Spotlight? Are its limitations configurable?

Spotlight deliberately hides files you're not supposed to **** with from your view, as does the Finder.

You can't see /private in the Finder, either, but it's there if you know exactly what you're looking for.

You can set a Finder search to include system files in its search, but that's not something you actually *want* to do - not you, personally, at least (no offense intended, as you may gather).

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Because your (and reader's) attitude of completely ignoring the mindset of the end user is damaging to the platform.

Because that's *exactly* what causes endless confusion and frustration in users who end up being AFRAID of their computers.

Because I'm the clean-up guy for the mess you leave in normal people's heads.

And because "Oh no, not this shit again" is not a fun thing to think.

I'm completely and utterly unsurprised to see your posts in here, and I'd be stunned if you had the slightest clue what I'm talking about.

First of all, you are being emotional.

Second of all, not all of us really care about what is "damaging for the platform".

Third of all, I disagree that conflicting advice is what causes people to be weenies when it comes to learning about computers.

Fourth of all, we are all anonymous people here in different parts of the world. You will not be responsible for cleaning up any of this.

Fifth of all, you are attacking me for absolutely no reason. Chill.

[Spheric Harlot]

I'm unsurprised at your lack of understanding.

And I'm chill.

Good night.

[besson3c]

ghporter: I appreciate your questions and interest in learning new stuff. It's too bad that more people aren't like that.

It's often a little frustrating to me that people sort of create these rationales about how or why they don't want to learn something based on saving themselves time, when often times what they do for themselves is less efficient than simply digging in and learning a little something. It is weird to me how people are intimidated by certain things in life, and this isn't to say that I'm not the same way about certain things, but the "oh I can NEVER learn that, my brain cannot process that" attitude is kind of lame too... People can be real weenies about certain things.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'm unsurprised at your lack of understanding.

And I'm chill.

Good night.

Stop attacking me, there is absolutely no reason for that. We are talking about computers, not something worth getting bent out of shape about.

[Spheric Harlot]

No. We've been talking about sending a newbie off to enable root on his computer, then log in as root via the GUI to find a file he has no clue where to look for and delete that, when the same thing can be accomplished via a simple GUI menu command in a familiar environment.

You give a guy who's clueless and running out of hard drive space a good chance for rendering his system unusable.

You bet your geek ass that's worth getting bent out of shape over.

Not for you, of course.

But you're *so* not whom this thread is for.

[reader50]

Calm down, people. Differences of opinion happen. It would be really scary if everyone was suddenly in agreement on everything. That would be tinfoil hat time.

I like to believe that any Mac user is smart until proven otherwise. And anyone who wants to learn more about the internals should be free to do so. Bearing in mind that they can break things, but that's a price of learning.

[Spheric Harlot]

Even "smart" people may not take a wrench to their car if it starts to sound funny.

Even "smart" people may realize that they have better things to waste their time on than risk breaking things in trying to obtain expertise in all areas of their daily life.

Maybe people who don't understand that "smart" or "intelligent" means being able to see what I really shouldn't have to waste my time on learning is not so smart?

[ghporter]

So can you tell me what is so terribly wrong with my method? I'd really like to know.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

No. We've been talking about sending a newbie off to enable root on his computer, then log in as root via the GUI to find a file he has no clue where to look for and delete that, when the same thing can be accomplished via a simple GUI menu command in a familiar environment.

You give a guy who's clueless and running out of hard drive space a good chance for rendering his system unusable.

You bet your geek ass that's worth getting bent out of shape over.

Not for you, of course.

But you're *so* not whom this thread is for.

You might notice that I have not suggested logging in as root, hence the inappropriateness of your emotions in going off on me.

[AKcrab]

Fun thread! How did I miss this one? I'll throw in my $0.02.

The solution that works for me is one that can be done via email:

Make sure you're logged in as an administrator. (System Preferences > Accounts)
Use spotlight to search for Terminal and launch it, (Or in the Finder menu bar choose Go > Utilities and look for Terminal there.)
When Terminal opens copy and paste the following at the prompt and hit return:

sudo rm /private/var/log/daily.out

When prompted for a password type in your administrator password.

It's a one time fix, without giving the customer the ability to do damage in the future. I just like to keep it KISS as much as I can for folks. (It's also basically the same thing Spheric suggested, and I have to admit Spherics is probably just a tad easier.)

All the other solutions discussed will work fine, too.

[P]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

So can you tell me what is so terribly wrong with my method? I'd really like to know.

Not terribly wrong, but there are better ways to do it.

The main issue about enabling root is that the Internet is full of people who do portscans and then try to log in (over SSH, but other protocols as well) using one of the most common user account names and then dictionary attacks on the password. Root is of course the number one account tried. Mac OS X does not have an account that is always present - enabling root creates one. To make it worse, at least back in 10.4 and less, there was absolutely no check on how difficult the root password was to guess, because it was set in a nonstandard way. I don't know how it's done these days - I haven't had to do it since 10.1 or so - but I suspect that a lot of the 10.1 Macs with the root account enabled had a very easy root password.

Yes, SSH is not on by default, but you don't know what your colleague in another forum is advising to solve a tricky problem just this minute.

The root account being disabled is an extra level of security, and enabling it removes that extra layer - flimsy as it may be. If there is no real pressing need to do so, stick to sudo. Sudo does a LOT of good things to save you from yourself, and additionally logs everything to system.log. That last thing is reason enough when advising someone - if they mess up, you can at least have them read back exactly what they did to figure out what happened.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Maybe people who don't understand that "smart" or "intelligent" means being able to see what I really shouldn't have to waste my time on learning is not so smart?

I don't agree with that. I think this is true for some people, maybe even many people, but there are also many people who, like I said, are complete weenies about learning anything outside of what they already know. For some people it makes more practical sense to teach them how to fish rather having them call somebody else up for every little thing just because they "are not a computer person", or have somehow convinced themselves that they are not capable of learning this.

We are all capable of learning everything. Some people will "get it" faster than others, but most everybody is capable of learning some basic concepts, even grandparents. I've dealt with some very non-savvy clients just as you have, some have found that writing stuff down helps them, but over time they have all proven to be capable to learn some basic concepts.

So, when I hear stuff about how busy somebody is I have to question:

1) Would learning this pay itself off? I.e. is this information useful enough to learn, as opposed to knowledge that may only be applied once or twice?

2) How much time would it take to learn or research something rather than depend on somebody else each time something arises?

3) Is the person accepting a self-defeatest attitude?


I even question the hardcore Mac or Windows geeks who seem super sheepish about learning a little Unix. A little knowledge can be very useful, certainly mentally stimulating, a good way to practice understanding lower levels of computing, and often practical depending on their IT career.

Some people just need to stop being weenies, no matter what they are being all weeny about.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by P 

Not terribly wrong, but there are better ways to do it.

The main issue about enabling root is that the Internet is full of people who do portscans and then try to log in (over SSH, but other protocols as well) using one of the most common user account names and then dictionary attacks on the password. Root is of course the number one account tried. Mac OS X does not have an account that is always present - enabling root creates one. To make it worse, at least back in 10.4 and less, there was absolutely no check on how difficult the root password was to guess, because it was set in a nonstandard way. I don't know how it's done these days - I haven't had to do it since 10.1 or so - but I suspect that a lot of the 10.1 Macs with the root account enabled had a very easy root password.

Yes, SSH is not on by default, but you don't know what your colleague in another forum is advising to solve a tricky problem just this minute.

The root account being disabled is an extra level of security, and enabling it removes that extra layer - flimsy as it may be. If there is no real pressing need to do so, stick to sudo. Sudo does a LOT of good things to save you from yourself, and additionally logs everything to system.log. That last thing is reason enough when advising someone - if they mess up, you can at least have them read back exactly what they did to figure out what happened.

Just to add to this, SSH root logins are not permitted in OpenSSH by default, in part for these sorts of reasons... You do not want to expose root to the internet.

That being said, I've worked with several highly competent sys admins who grow tired of typing in sudo all the time. For them, I don't see the problem with them logging in as themselves and then becoming root with an su. Once it becomes habitual to preface every command with sudo it becomes pretty brainless, and when it becomes pretty brainless it's probably just about as dangerous as it is to be logged in as root.

Moreover, we've discussed social engineering in the past and how people don't read stuff on the screen. When Joe User sees the authentication prompt in the OS X GUI I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of times they just brainlessly type their password without thinking about what they are doing. Making them type in their password is still a good thing, it's better than nothing, and it helps prevent automated attacks, but even better would be to correct this behavior so that it isn't brainless. Windows Vista has been criticized because it is too naggy an OS. OS X is much better about this, but I do believe that most users still just habitually type in their passwords without thinking twice about it.

Not enabling the root account removes a gun that users can shoot themselves with, but even better would be to teach them that shooting themselves is probably not a good idea.

[dzp111]

You guys are funny in some sort of way. You talk about smartness and Roots and Unix, etc..

I dislike to boast, but I hold 3 university degrees (Musical Performance; French, and World Religions). Thing is, I've been using Macs only, since 1988.

I've never needed sudo or root until yesterday. In fact, I didn't even go there. Thanks to you people I didn't have to go anywhere except Go in Finder.

What's the big fuss?

Problem's solved, thanks to you.

And for the the record, I will be getting a bigger Hard Drive this week.

Much thanks again. You're all awesome and helpful.


Peace?


Daniel

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I don't agree with that. I think this is true for some people, maybe even many people, but there are also many people who, like I said, are complete weenies about learning anything outside of what they already know. For some people it makes more practical sense to teach them how to fish rather having them call somebody else up for every little thing just because they "are not a computer person", or have somehow convinced themselves that they are not capable of learning this.

I think it is completely, utterly ridiculous to lecture and expect somebody to show interest in an open-sea sailing course, sustainable fisheries and dietetics if all he wants/needs to know is what temperature to set his oven to for baking fish fingers.

Even worse is claiming that this is what any "smart" person should be capable and willing to do, conversely insinuating that anybody who doesn't give a **** because their life consists of worrying about other things ISN'T "smart".

Do you guys ever deal with normal human beings AT ALL!?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by dzp111 

You guys are funny in some sort of way. You talk about smartness and Roots and Unix, etc..

I dislike to boast, but I hold 3 university degrees (Musical Performance; French, and World Religions). Thing is, I've been using Macs only, since 1988.

I've never needed sudo or root until yesterday. In fact, I didn't even go there. Thanks to you people I didn't have to go anywhere except Go in Finder.

What's the big fuss?

You're obviously accepting a self-defeatist attitude.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I think it is completely, utterly ridiculous to lecture and expect somebody to show interest in an open-sea sailing course, sustainable fisheries and dietetics if all he wants/needs to know is what temperature to set his oven to for baking fish fingers.

Even worse is claiming that this is what any "smart" person should be capable and willing to do, conversely insinuating that anybody who doesn't give a **** because their life consists of worrying about other things ISN'T "smart".

Do you guys ever deal with normal human beings AT ALL!?

How is this comparable in any way?

If somebody is coming to you for help, it means they they need certain information that is relevant to them. Teaching this person how to fish, so to speak, is not akin to teaching them about open sea sailing or anything else. The better analogy would be that that somebody is coming to you as a sailor for some basic information you can either sail them to where they want to go, or expose them to a little something that might lead to them eventually being able to sail for themselves.

However, if that person comes to you for help for a one-shot deal, i.e. they never need this information again, that's different, but most people with computing needs generally need to work with computers on a semi-regular basis. The more you can expose to them, the easier it is for them to learn new concepts.