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besson3c · Oct 20, 2010, 11:21 PM

I'd have to watch the little sneak peak demo given today again, but I'm pretty sure that the OS X guy giving the demo said that the app store will support a new protocol for developers to use, perhaps for interacting with the store from the software website and passing data to and from the store, perhaps unlocking downloads after a purchase or a serial number has been provided or something? Perhaps this protocol will support detecting the machine's OS version and providing the best version as well...

Obviously we don't know anything yet, but is anybody else intrigued by this feature? I've been wanting something like this for a long time, the closest we've come is AppFresh. I'm interested in knowing what sorts of submission acceptance policies they will implement, whether the goal is to ultimately replace software downloads with this so that all software put on your Mac has to be installed through this store, and how private company downloads of internal software might work with this if at all. I'm sure these things can be sorted out though, I look forward to learning more...

Not only does this feature look like it will be incredibly convenient and useful, but this looks like it will put an end to the confusion of software installation - dealing with disk images, installers, dragging an app to the applications folder, etc. To us this is obviously old hat, but this new system looks like it will be absolutely idiot proof!

Any other thoughts about this new feature? This looks to be possibly the most significant Mac feature announced today. I hope Apple has learned from some of the bad PR they got with submission acceptance for the iPhone to avoid the same for this new store...

IIRC, this app store is outside of iTunes, right? Perhaps this might be the first attempt to start to break away from using iTunes for everything? It would seem logical to use this app for general iOS device management as well... Possibly? Maybe? I suppose having to manage your iOS device through your PC at all is probably intended to be a temporary stopgap measure...

Brien · Oct 20, 2010, 11:25 PM

Well, I do think it's likely we might see super-Universal apps (iPhone, iPad, and Macintosh) in one bundle.

CharlesS · Oct 20, 2010, 11:27 PM

Since there's no way Pacifist will meet their submission guidelines, I won't be using it.

My basic hope is that this doesn't end up diverting too much traffic away from the traditional software distribution areas like MacUpdate.

besson3c · Oct 20, 2010, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Since there's no way Pacifist will meet their submission guidelines, I won't be using it.

My basic hope is that this doesn't end up diverting too much traffic away from the traditional software distribution areas like MacUpdate.

Perhaps their policies for Mac apps will be far more lax? After all, that horse has already left the barn ages ago...

besson3c · Oct 20, 2010, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by Brien

Well, I do think it's likely we might see super-Universal apps (iPhone, iPad, and Macintosh) in one bundle.

Why's that?

besson3c · Oct 21, 2010, 01:23 AM

It looks like only registered Mac developers (who have paid money) can learn more about this store:

Mac App Store - Mac Developer Program - Apple Developer

Brien · Oct 21, 2010, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Why's that?

Just a personal hunch, really.

finboy · Oct 21, 2010, 10:52 AM

It will be interesting to see, but if it holds to form then we'll just get more noise, just like with the AppStore now. If nothing else, it might let some of the little developers get recognized by some more casual users. But I'm just afraid that the signal-to-noise ratio for Mac apps has peaked at this point.

What we need, really, is a centralized distribution for universal Unix apps for scientists and statisticians. That would be wonderfully helpful, considering when OS X was introduced we were told that there were already 100,000+ existing scientific apps that would run from the Terminal. I know that was a while ago - still waiting.

spamholz · Oct 22, 2010, 04:51 PM

My ears perked up when Steve said that I could purchase an app and load it on every mac that I own.

Here is an excerpt from the website.

Buy and download. And even redownload.
You can install Mac apps on every Mac you use and even download them again. This is especially convenient when you buy a new Mac and want to load it with apps you already own.

So no more family packs of software? This is great for consumers but bad for developers. I wonder if prices will increase to offset the loss from not being able to sell multiple copies to a single user.

besson3c · Oct 22, 2010, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by spamholz

My ears perked up when Steve said that I could purchase an app and load it on every mac that I own.

Here is an excerpt from the website.

Buy and download. And even redownload.
You can install Mac apps on every Mac you use and even download them again. This is especially convenient when you buy a new Mac and want to load it with apps you already own.

So no more family packs of software? This is great for consumers but bad for developers. I wonder if prices will increase to offset the loss from not being able to sell multiple copies to a single user.

What makes you think this would change? These applications could require serial numbers just as they do now. All the app store provides, AFAIK, is the installer, not a license. This would be the equivalent of transferring the disk image to another computer.

Big Mac · Oct 22, 2010, 04:56 PM

No, it implies buy once, install on unlimited Macs that are registered to your Apple account.

And in truth, only excessively honest people (a very, very small percentage) closely follow licensing agreements prohibiting multiple installations and buy software more than once for their own personal use.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 22, 2010, 04:59 PM

Requiring serial numbers or activation explicitly excludes apps from the App Store, as per Apple's guidelines.

besson3c · Oct 22, 2010, 05:00 PM

Well, developers are not going to want to rewrite their apps to work without a serial number in addition to being forced to change their whole licensing and money making structure, I don't think. My guess is that this new protocol that the OS X guy giving the presentation alluded to will handle tracking serial numbers. Maybe these will be entered into the app store somewhere and automatically fed into the app. This would still require a modification to the app, but I would imagine that at the serial number entry screen a query to the store is going to be far less complicated than removing the whole licensing/piracy prevention mechanism within the app.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 22, 2010, 05:03 PM

DRM would be handled the same as on iOS, I'd assume.

Snow Leopard supports signed applications.

besson3c · Oct 22, 2010, 05:04 PM

Then again, if serial numbers are entered into the store, apps like Adobe CS that phones home will probably require significant alterations, unless the protocol also includes a way for Adobe's licensing servers to communicate with the app store servers.

I would imagine that this protocol, store system, and developer efforts are going to have to be fairly substantial. Then again, from the developer standpoint it will probably be nice to not have to code all of this into the app and provide bandwidth for distribution (for those that don't rely on Bittorrent based systems), so maybe even after Apple's cut of this it will still be an attractive deal.

besson3c · Oct 22, 2010, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

DRM would be handled the same as on iOS, I'd assume.

Snow Leopard supports signed applications.

How is that, exactly?

Spheric Harlot · Oct 22, 2010, 05:06 PM

Maybe a developer could weigh in on that.

Brien · Oct 22, 2010, 05:21 PM

It'll be just like iOS. You'll just have to sign apps with your certs like an iOS app, and I would imagine the App Store application and any OS back-end would handle authentication, likely tying into the iTunes system. Especially since they'll be using the Apple ID.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 22, 2010, 05:36 PM

http://iphone.appleinsider.com/artic...app_store.html

King Bob On The Cob · Nov 2, 2010, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Brien

It'll be just like iOS. You'll just have to sign apps with your certs like an iOS app, and I would imagine the App Store application and any OS back-end would handle authentication, likely tying into the iTunes system. Especially since they'll be using the Apple ID.

Yep, I would expect this.

Added advantage to the end-user: The program is signed, so you will not need to re-allow it to use your keychain every time you update (This feature came into play with Leopard). This would be GREAT for developers, as it would be near impossible to write a crack using usual "Snoop for the boolean" type attacks, and Apple's fairplay hasn't been broken on the desktop in quite some time...

olePigeon · Nov 2, 2010, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by spamholz

I wonder if prices will increase to offset the loss from not being able to sell multiple copies to a single user.

Don't forget that suddenly independent developers have access to millions of Mac users. I think developers will gladly exchange multi seat licensing and 30% of their profits for exposure of that kind.

imitchellg5 · Nov 2, 2010, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

It looks like only registered Mac developers (who have paid money) can learn more about this store:

Mac App Store - Mac Developer Program - Apple Developer

Lame, although I think Apple may wish to do that to keep it higher-end.

imitchellg5 · Nov 2, 2010, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

so maybe even after Apple's cut of this it will still be an attractive deal.

You don't think that physical retail stores get a huge cut of the profit?

Brien · Nov 2, 2010, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Don't forget that suddenly independent developers have access to millions of Mac users. I think developers will gladly exchange multi seat licensing and 30% of their profits for exposure of that kind.

I just hope that we don't see a lowering of the bar on quality and pricing due to the App Store. I'd hate to see Panic, Omni Group, etc. having to play the 99¢ game.

Spheric Harlot · Nov 2, 2010, 05:33 PM

I think they'd need to play the $7.99 game, but they'll sell ten times what they do now.

olePigeon · Nov 4, 2010, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Brien

I just hope that we don't see a lowering of the bar on quality and pricing due to the App Store. I'd hate to see Panic, Omni Group, etc. having to play the 99¢ game.

I think Panic and Omni Group could clean house with high quality 99¢ fart apps.