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The official Lion thread™ (Page 12)
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Oct 14, 2011, 11:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
It annoys the heck out of me. I liked being able to see the little icons representing the attachments and do whatever I wanted with them. Replacing all of those with a "quick look" button is not sufficient.
Huh? Double-clicking on those works on my end.

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Oct 15, 2011, 12:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Huh? Double-clicking on those works on my end.
I kinda hate the Quicklook thing too. Mail will display 1 attachment as in a PDF inline, and the rest attachments. I just want to see a nice line of attached icons so I can drag and drop the ones I want to my desktop.
     
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Oct 15, 2011, 07:27 PM
 
At least Apple released a new Lion recovery update.

Do you think using the restore update will recover Steve Jobs from the backup servers?


Oh, and: has the Textedit "misleading scroll bar size" bug been fixed yet? This has been going on for a year.
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Oct 15, 2011, 08:32 PM
 
Well that's just retarded. I just upgraded to 10.7.2, and I was greeted with an iCloud assistant that wanted me to log in, but doesn't even work [correction - got it to work - mods can delete this post I don't see a delete post button]
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Nov 11, 2011, 12:24 PM
 
Well has anyone figured out how to remove the .rtf (automatically) when creating a new text document?

Why would Apple stupidly go back to put in all the extensions literally in the file name?
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Nov 11, 2011, 12:49 PM
 
Why would you want to remove the .rtf? How, then, would the OS know which application it should use to open it? Recall, creator codes are gone.

If you want to hide the extension, it's an option in "get info" for the file. I don't know how to do it automatically.

Personally, I have TextEdit set to create .txt files instead of .rtf files as they're smaller and more readable and all good things.
     
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Nov 11, 2011, 01:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Andrej View Post
Well has anyone figured out how to remove the .rtf (automatically) when creating a new text document?

Why would Apple stupidly go back to put in all the extensions literally in the file name?
They've done that for the past ten years.

Or are you talking about hiding the extension by default?
     
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Nov 11, 2011, 04:38 PM
 
The file names always have extensions. The Finder simply hides them by default.
     
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Nov 11, 2011, 06:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
The file names always have extensions.
Having an extension is little more than a convention. There can be files without an extension without the file system having any problem with that.
     
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Nov 13, 2011, 12:34 AM
 
So I'm now using Lion, and holy crap, did they think anything thru at all?

So they changed all the gestures. Instead of three-fingers left to go back a page, you now use two-fingers left. Yeah, um, that's for scrolling, so why would I want to give that up? Luckily, you can change it back to three-fingers left.

Expose All used to be four-fingers down, now Mission Control is four-fingers up, and you can't change that back. Grrr. Four-fingers down is now App Expose, which I never use, and I can't change that gesture to something useful to me. Grrr again.

The Finder is extremely buggy. For instance, I always have the status bar showing, but it was off, so I switched it on. Nothing happened. A while later, it showed up. All My Files was showing a bunch of sensitive stuff, so I dropped some folders in the Privacy tab of Spotlight; now nothing at all shows up in All My Files. Grrr. And they took away my favourite gesture: using the pinch to change icon sizes. Grrr.

LaunchPad immediately gave me to work to do. For instance, inside my Application folder is a folder called Third Party, and inside that are folders named Games, Web, Video. Since these folders have more items than LaunchPad is able to handle in its own "folders," it went crazy. It created SIX folders called Third Party (Other), and dumped everything willy-nilly into those folders, requiring me to clean it up and re-organize all over again, which I haven't yet bothered to do. Grrr. And don't get me started on the silly gesture to activate LaunchPad.

The visual changes seem so stupid. They lessened the difference between active and background windows, they changed the QuickLook window from black to a grey that looks like a background window, and the dictionary pop-up looks worse. But the three-finger tap to activate the dictionary is nice.

I am giving "the Lion way" a chance. I'm trying the "natural scrolling" and hidden scroll bars. I'm testing full screen on various things.
     
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Nov 13, 2011, 04:27 AM
 
Mission Control is three fingers up. App Exposé is three fingers down.

Hot corners work exactly as before.

Address Book is middle finger up.
     
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Nov 13, 2011, 08:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Address Book is middle finger up.
Hehe. I absolutely agree, I hate not being able to view groups, people and contact details at the same time. You have to constantly toggle back and forth between two views now, ugh!
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
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Nov 13, 2011, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Mission Control is three fingers up. App Exposé is three fingers down.
Ok, I forgot I changed it to four fingers. But my point was Mission Control should be down not up, like it was in Snow Leopard when it was called Expose All Apps. And I still can't change four-down to something useful. The fact that you can change three fingers to four, but not up to down, is a stupid UI restriction, agree?
Hot corners work exactly as before.
I hate hot corners.
     
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Nov 13, 2011, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Ok, I forgot I changed it to four fingers. But my point was Mission Control should be down not up, like it was in Snow Leopard when it was called Expose All Apps. And I still can't change four-down to something useful. The fact that you can change three fingers to four, but not up to down, is a stupid UI restriction, agree?
No, I don't.

I'm already *hating* the fact that you can change it to four-fingers, and that you can assign three fingers to window dragging, because three-finger drag is supposed to slide across spaces.

You never know what to expect when you sit down at a machine.

And gestures become such an integral part of workflow and are so ingrained into the way you deal with your machine that having them broken leaves me kind of helpless and perpetually annoyed.

Apple should lock the ****ing defaults and make changes available only via a .plist hack.
( Last edited by Spheric Harlot; Nov 13, 2011 at 06:42 PM. )
     
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Nov 13, 2011, 06:24 PM
 
I can see where you're coming from. Standardized behaviours certainly make using computers easier. If you sat at a random machine having no idea what right-click would do, that would certainly be maddening.
     
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Nov 13, 2011, 06:42 PM
 
^ Exactly.

Also, when switching over to Lion, I purposely left ALL settings on default and vowed not to touch them for a few weeks.

Turns out I'm actually quite happy with them.

—still not sure about scroll bars.
—still annoyed that full-screen applications don't remain in their proper order after being quit/re-opened.
—still annoyed that applications assigned to a space don't re-open their proper space when quit/re-opened. My primary use of Spaces in 10.6 was to *permanently* group certain applications together, away from all others.
     
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Nov 13, 2011, 09:56 PM
 
FWIW, if I were stuck with the Lion defaults for the trackpad gestures, I'd probably stop using them entirely and switch back to keyboard shortcuts. The out-of-the-box settings are unusable, IMO.

I particularly hate what they did to the "Show Desktop" gesture, which used to be the one I used the most often in Snow Leopard. The new gesture is so hard to pull off properly, and is one of the few you can't change.

They're also vastly different from the Snow Leopard settings, which would seem to invoke your complaint about ingrained movements not doing what you expect.

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Nov 14, 2011, 03:28 AM
 
I'm mostly okay with the changes in Lion, but the show-desktop gesture is useless for anything I use it for anyway, as you can't drag-and-gesture.

I use hot corners extensively.
     
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Nov 15, 2011, 02:07 AM
 
With the Apple full-sized wired keyboard, I have mapped Exposé... errr... Mission Control... to F13, Application Windows to F14, and Show Desktop to F15.

This doesn't change the built-in F3 button Mission Control mapping which has the Exposé icon on it. It still works for Mission Control too.

BTW, I don't like Mission Control. I much preferred Exposé.

Originally Posted by Eug View Post
When surfing to new pages in Safari, why does the new page sometimes start in the left upper corner and then expand to fill the page?

When surfing to new pages in Safari, why does the old page sometimes shrink to the bottom right corner?

is there any way to stop this behaviour?
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I have now not only seen the page shrink to the bottom right corner, but also the new page fall from the top. I have seen this in 10.7.2 as well. I see no setting for this anywhere. Very weird.

I still wonder if it's a Magic Mouse gestures thing.
Geez, I can't be the only person experiencing this, can I?
     
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Nov 15, 2011, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Geez, I can't be the only person experiencing this, can I?
No, I've seen it too, but I don't know why it happens or what it's supposed to represent.

Except for the four-finger-up gesture, I'm actually liking Mission Control.
     
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Nov 21, 2011, 09:14 AM
 
( Last edited by Thorzdad; Nov 22, 2011 at 12:35 PM. )
     
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Nov 30, 2011, 02:06 PM
 
Looks like my wife's all-Mac office is upgading to Lion today. And, she's already run afoul of Lion's auto-save function. She does a lot of work in Pages and she's reporting that she's getting the beachball every minute or so when auto-save does its thing. It's making Pages unusable.

I'm sure I'll be hearing more "Lion love" from her over the course of the day.
     
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Nov 30, 2011, 10:15 PM
 
Ouch. Auto-Save shouldn't cause that kind of performance penalty. There's been an Auto-Save option in word processors since practically the dawn of man himself.

Is there anything Lion doesn't suck at? Not trying to troll here, but holy shiznite.

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Nov 30, 2011, 11:01 PM
 
At least I'll be able to play with Lion on her travel Macbook for awhile. That way I can decide whether to take my iMac down that path, or keep it frozen, and productive, at Snow Leopard.

Apple really should make Auto-Save an option one can turn off/on. Ditto with Versions. I get that devs love versioning. It works for their type of work. That doesn't mean it's appropriate across the board for average, or even above-average users. It's just piling-up worthless junk. At least I stumbled-across how to turn-off Auto-Locking documents. Good grief. Who thought that was a good idea???
     
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Dec 1, 2011, 02:41 AM
 
I love that particular feature.
     
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Dec 1, 2011, 02:56 AM
 
I love it too, but it does seem like it has taken a performance toll on Preview and Textedit....

Well, I don't know that it is to blame, but it might be
     
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Dec 1, 2011, 06:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Ouch. Auto-Save shouldn't cause that kind of performance penalty. There's been an Auto-Save option in word processors since practically the dawn of man himself.
Not quite that long (we used extra programs to autosave for us back in the day), but I will note that even frigging TextEdit on SL will autosave.

Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Is there anything Lion doesn't suck at? Not trying to troll here, but holy shiznite.
As I mentioned in the other thread, my brand-new MBA came with Lion, and I really like it. The new touch gestures are great - I only wish there was some way to add a tab-switching thing in Safari, but I guess I'll have to look at BTT again. I have no performance problems whatsoever.

Note that this was a new install, with no upgrading or settings importing from SL. That might be the difference.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Dec 1, 2011, 07:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I love that particular feature.
Why?
I can't for the life of me imagine a need for auto-locking documents.
     
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Dec 1, 2011, 10:27 AM
 
I can. Currently I'm working on one project. On occasion I need to check what happened with the same part in the project I worked on two years ago, but I don't want to change that by mistake. Auto-locking makes sense to me, it's just the interface that needs work - it should be obvious before opening the file that it is locked.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Dec 1, 2011, 10:53 AM
 
Or, how about just letting the user create archive copies on their own, if their workflow requires such a thing? This really feels like some arcane need for a subset of users being imposed on the larger whole, without any ability to opt-out.
     
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Dec 1, 2011, 01:03 PM
 
Locking is a requirement for Auto-Save.

Otherwise, just opening up a doc, editing something, and reversing that, would change the last-edited-date.

Also, it would happen to me all the time that I'd need to bill a client, open up an old bill to that client, edit the info, and hit Cmd-S out of reflex, overwriting the old bill. Not good. The new way prompts me to duplicate. Much better.
     
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Dec 1, 2011, 01:19 PM
 
Maybe to you. And, honestly, I think your example is an exceptional case. If it works for you, fine. I simply think the whole auto-save/versions/auto-lock system should be an optional workflow.
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 07:59 AM
 
I honestly don't think what I do is that exceptional.

It applies to my studio work, as well, and I fail to see what usage scenarios it WOULDN'T be useful for.

Or rather, I fail to see any usage scenario in which the new method would be WORSE than the old one—having giving the luddites time to adapt and the usual "OMG-somebody-changed-the-color-of-my-WINDOW-WIDGETS-I-CAN'T-WORK" whining time to die down.
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 08:31 AM
 
Does the auto-locking disrupt normal workflows? I'm curious about it, although not curious enough to install Lion on any of my family's Lion capable Macs. That will probably wait until I Hackintosh one of my PCs.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 09:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Does the auto-locking disrupt normal workflows? I'm curious about it, although not curious enough to install Lion on any of my family's Lion capable Macs. That will probably wait until I Hackintosh one of my PCs.
The auto-locking *interrupts* workflows, as when you open up a document that hasn't been changed in two weeks (default; you can change the interval) and try to edit it, it will prompt you to either unlock it (one click), duplicate it (one click and a "Save as…" dialog the next time you try to save), or cancel.

The only situation I can imagine where this would be annoying is if you're used to just always opening up a single master document, changing a couple of details, and then sending that out, but honestly, that's why God created the "Save as Template…" command and put it in the File menu.
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 09:23 AM
 
What's the purpose of locking a document in the first place? I have many client documents that go untouched for a month or more, then have to be opened for new activity. I see no point to the system automatically locking them. What horror is it preventing?
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 09:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
What's the purpose of locking a document in the first place? I have many client documents that go untouched for a month or more, then have to be opened for new activity. I see no point to the system automatically locking them. What horror is it preventing?
Didn't you just read and respond to my post above?
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Locking is a requirement for Auto-Save.

Otherwise, just opening up a doc, editing something, and reversing that, would change the last-edited-date.

Also, it would happen to me all the time that I'd need to bill a client, open up an old bill to that client, edit the info, and hit Cmd-S out of reflex, overwriting the old bill. Not good. The new way prompts me to duplicate. Much better.
Why are you asking again?

This actually happens all the time in the studio as well. I'm constantly going into old projects to check out or copy channel strip settings there, or just to continue working on projects that have been on hold for a while.

Getting prompted to create a new version, rather than just getting a "Don't Save"-"Cancel"-"Save" dialog, is a great benefit in most such situations, and not detrimental in the rest.
(Or rather, "would be", as Logic hasn't been updated yet.)

The biggest problems right now are force of habit and the discrepancy between apps that have been updated, and those that haven't.
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 09:45 AM
 
I guess your examples aren't sinking-in as valid reasons for imposing such a strange change in file-handling for all users. Frankly, your examples read like edge-cases. I'm just not seeing any value. It all strikes me as developer over-thinking that accomplishes nothing demonstrably valuable beyond imposing an arcane workflow on the rest of the users. People have survived quite well, and accomplished great work, for decades without the system imposing its will on how a user manages their files.
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 09:57 AM
 
Fallacious argument.

People have survived quite well, and accomplished great work, for decades on Windows.

"Works" != "Best way of doing things".

If mine are edge-cases, in what way does auto-locking impose upon YOUR workflow?
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 10:10 AM
 
Simple. It imposes the will of the system on the user. This runs contrary to the traditional Macintosh way of getting the system out of the way of your workflow and allowing the user to do as they please. Lion, from what I can see, represents a turning-away from this.

Oh, and "Lion" != "Best way of doing things"

And "I disagree with your examples" != "Fallacious"
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 10:22 AM
 
Saying that things have worked fine so far and using that as a technical argument is fallacious.

If my examples are outlandish, then the auto-locking is COMPLETELY out of the way of ANYBODY's workflow, as nobody will ever see it.

Your assumption that the Macintosh Way is "getting the system out of the way of your workflow and allowing the user to do as they please" is erroneous.

The Macintosh Way is to choose defaults that are likely to overlap with the expectations of a non-technical average human being, and to ALWAYS err on the side of safety, if possible.

The fact that you've spent the last twenty years building your workflow around given realities (what you describe as "the system getting out of the way of your workflow") speaks to habit, not necessarily to interface quality. In reality, you have been just as constrained in the past as you will be in the future; the onus of watching out for certain pitfalls has been on you, rather than the system taking precautions.

Would you like to complain about the Macintosh Trash Can, while you're at it? After all, it's just another system feature in the way of what you want to do: You know damn well when you want to delete something. If you want to move it out of the way but aren't sure whether to delete it outright, you'll just create a folder and dump it there temporarily, and delete that folder later.

Damn Apple for getting in the way of your workflow and forcing you to select "Empty Trash" from a pop-up menu!



Edit: So do you have any actual, real-world examples where auto-locking is a nuisance, or is this purely based upon your interpretation of the philosophy behind Macintosh (which, as said, I entirely disagree with)?

Also, if you dislike auto-locking (are you even using Lion?) and it interferes with your advanced-user workflows, I suggest you simply turn it off in the Time Machine pref pane.
Case closed.
( Last edited by Spheric Harlot; Dec 2, 2011 at 10:29 AM. )
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 11:10 AM
 
Geez, SH. Don't take this so personally. We're just disagreeing about Lion. I didn't kick your puppy.
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 11:18 AM
 
Um, okay.

Do you have any examples of situations where auto-lock would be a nuisance?
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 12:09 PM
 
Define nuisance.
I find the idea of now having files locked by the system based to be a nuisance, no matter how trivial it might be to unlock them. It's an unnecessary action. To me, it's a "feature" with little or no demonstrable benefit. At least it can be disabled, unlike auto-save and versioning.
     
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Dec 2, 2011, 12:34 PM
 
That's just it:

You dislike the "idea" of it, but in practical reality, it's either pretty much irrelevant or genuinely useful.

As for Auto-Save and Versioning: great idea IMO, but I'm not decided on whether or not i like the implementation yet.
     
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Dec 4, 2011, 05:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
No problem with that site here on the latest Safari 5.1, 10.6.8, running ClicktoFlash extension.

Safari 5.1 is annoying me like hell, though - the reloading is okay, but there's occasionally huge delays, and the old animated-GIFs-eating-CPU-cycles-like-crazy phenomenon is back.

That had been mercifully banished after YEARS, and now it's back.

You can use GlimmerBlocker to eliminate all GIFs, although you have to improvise when you need to see them by using another browser or something.

As an aside, my Mail filter sends all letters with GIFs to the junk folder. It helps.
     
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Dec 4, 2011, 05:40 PM
 
I don't WANT to eliminate GIFanims.

I just want them to not use up 30% CPU of a Sandy Bridge i7 when the "Post Reply" page of this forum is displayed.

It used to be fine, several versions ago.
     
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Dec 5, 2011, 10:49 AM
 
Unintended changes is probably the biggest problem with autosave, and I don't think it is solved yet. Auto-lock is an obligatory element in attempting to solve this problem. Autosave cannot be without auto-lock.

It doesn't increase the number of user interaction though. It's just that one asked after the changes whether they were intentional, and the other asks before. If anything there are less user interactions bow since during 2 weeks you are not asked at all.
     
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Jan 25, 2012, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Andrej View Post
Another Preview complaint (I mean, question...)

How do I change the text alignment for a text annotation from left justify to center justify?

Has anyone figured out how to do this yet?
This one time, at Boot Camp, I stuck a flute up my PC.
     
The Mighty
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Well the sports issue was within arm's reach but they closed up shop and kicked me out. And I'm out of toilet paper.
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Feb 10, 2012, 04:42 PM
 
Gah, I hate the new click finger icon in 10.7.3. The finger is short and narrow, and it's not even straight up! What the hell?

What is the Tim Cook era (error) thinking?
I don't even want to know where that finger has been!
This one time, at Boot Camp, I stuck a flute up my PC.
     
 
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