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The official Lion thread™ (Page 5)
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Clinically Insane
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Jul 24, 2011, 09:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Don Pickett View Post
Virtual memory isn't just treated as a last resort. It's just another place to store data. We see it used most often when we exceed physical RAM, but the OS is always paging stuff in and out.
That makes absolutely no sense. Are you saying that there is no downside to using VM?
     
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Jul 24, 2011, 09:56 PM
 
I was automatically prompted to download Java the first time it was needed by some VPN software I was using. Perhaps this mechanism is inconsistent/buggy?
     
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Jul 24, 2011, 10:02 PM
 
Which reminds me...

My Aventail Connect VPN software doesn't seem to work in Lion. Dammit.
     
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Jul 24, 2011, 10:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I was automatically prompted to download Java the first time it was needed by some VPN software I was using. Perhaps this mechanism is inconsistent/buggy?
It's broken for sure.

Like Eug said, it's the same version as in SL, and it worked in SL.

I'm gonna file a bug report.

-t
     
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Jul 24, 2011, 10:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
That makes absolutely no sense. Are you saying that there is no downside to using VM?
Of course there's a downside. What I am saying is that, from the perspective of the memory subsystem, memory is memory is memory. Doesn't matter if it's in RAM or on disk. You could, conceivably, rewrite the memory subsystem to use virtual memory before RAM and the OS wouldn't have an opinion. Your machine would be much, much, much slower, but the OS would continue to function as normal.

We use RAM first because of practical reasons, not because virtual memory is somehow evil.

Now that we've settled this pedantic argument, let's move on to more important things, like how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
The era of anthropomorphizing hardware is over.
     
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Jul 24, 2011, 10:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Don Pickett View Post
Of course there's a downside. What I am saying is that, from the perspective of the memory subsystem, memory is memory is memory. Doesn't matter if it's in RAM or on disk. You could, conceivably, rewrite the memory subsystem to use virtual memory before RAM and the OS wouldn't have an opinion. Your machine would be much, much, much slower, but the OS would continue to function as normal.

We use RAM first because of practical reasons, not because virtual memory is somehow evil.

Now that we've settled this pedantic argument, let's move on to more important things, like how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

I never said that virtual memory is seen by the OS as being different than real RAM, I said it is *created* as a last resort because of its significantly lesser performance, and this is true. Even using virtual memory that has already been created it is still slower because disk access is slower than memory. VM is therefore created as a last resort.

I'm not trying to have a pedantic argument, but I wanted to correct what was flat out false.
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 12:59 AM
 
If I quit Safari, it reopens at the last page I was visiting at the next launch. How do I turn this off? It's annoying.
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 01:09 AM
 
System Prefs -> General -> Restore windows when quitting and relaunching apps

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 01:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
If I quit Safari, it reopens at the last page I was visiting at the next launch. How do I turn this off? It's annoying.
Also, if you close out all your Safari windows before you close Safari, it will start fresh.
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 01:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Also, if you close out all your Safari windows before you close Safari, it will start fresh.
Yeah, I know, but it's an extra step.

Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
System Prefs -> General -> Restore windows when quitting and relaunching apps
Thanks.
( Last edited by Eug; Jul 25, 2011 at 01:26 AM. )
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 07:23 AM
 
Not sure if this is a feature or a bug, but I can't seem to use cmd-h to hide full screen apps. so far Chrome has been the only exception (which, i should add works beautifully full screen).

:edit:
Also it seems like Chrome handles full screen rather differently compared to Safari, Preview, iTunes, Mail etc. It doesn't create a space of it's own, instead goes into full screen on the same desktop currently active. I think I like this more, but not sure yet. And have no idea if Chrome had this ability to go full screen in SL or not cause I almost never used it then.
:edit2:
Apparently the downside of full screen on Chrome and Opera is that you can't access Spotlight (cmd-space), which is a major bummer. Neither can you access the dock by mousing over.
( Last edited by Macfreak7; Jul 25, 2011 at 07:51 AM. Reason: sure)
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 08:07 AM
 
Macfreak, Safari, Preview, iTunes, and other Apple apps have been updated for Lion, to have a system wide full-screen view

Chrome kind of uses a "hack" to go full-screen and was developed before Lion came out. I'm sure Google will "fix" the problem to be Lion compatible.

You can access the dock by moving your cursor down to the dock. Pause for a moment, and then move down again (without moving up) and the dock will appear. I don't like it.
{{{ mindwaves }}}
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 09:19 AM
 
Image Capture: um, where is my crop/selection when scanning??

EDIT: Nevermind.. it's there after a restart. Hope some of these random bigs get worked out soon in .1...
10.7.1 on Mac Pro 8x2.8
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 09:20 AM
 
OMFG now both Preview and TextEdit also overwrites all my changes?

What happened to "Oh s*** I made a bunch of mistakes, close window, Don't Save, and reopen my work"

Now Preview and Textedit overwrite all my original work!!

And what is with all these stupid locks? OMFG this is driving me insane!!


Edit: Well crazy Apple moved the locks to, of all places common sense may direct me, Time Machine preferences (when I don't even use Time Machine), this is where I can turn off the stupid lock/unlock messages.

Continued Edit: Not obvious to me, but I'm *assuming* that I can revert if I click on the document title, and go to Revert to Last Saved Version. But I'm hesitant to accept that I can always do this.

This is going to take a lot of getting used to, for sure.
Remaining question: Let's say that I have Time Machine off. How long do old versions stay on my hard drive? I have lots of big documents to edit.
( Last edited by And.reg; Jul 25, 2011 at 12:42 PM. )
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
Macfreak, Safari, Preview, iTunes, and other Apple apps have been updated for Lion, to have a system wide full-screen view

Chrome kind of uses a "hack" to go full-screen and was developed before Lion came out. I'm sure Google will "fix" the problem to be Lion compatible.

You can access the dock by moving your cursor down to the dock. Pause for a moment, and then move down again (without moving up) and the dock will appear. I don't like it.
Dock access works fine for Apple apps optimized for full screen. Doesn't work for Chrome/Opera in full screen mode, like you said some optimization issues going on. I still want to be able to hide Safari or iTunes etc while in full screen mode. But thanks anyway.

Moving on to Mail.app. Can't access the menu bar while composing a message. I need it to paste "and match style" without having to memorize the shortcut. Reminds me of System 7 (I think?) where you could manually assign a shortcut to a command within the menu.
( Last edited by Macfreak7; Jul 25, 2011 at 10:22 AM. Reason: yes)
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 11:45 AM
 
Another thing I just found out is that Lion's "Wi-Fi" is incompatible with my campus wireless. I get disconnected every 1-4 minutes and have to restart my wireless manually all the time.

Linux/Windows can log in, but not Lion.

I talked with 2 IT campus representatives, and they said that they spoke with network administration and found out that, yes, IT'S A LION ISSUE. They said that they can't do anything, and that Apple needs to come out with a fix for this.
( Last edited by And.reg; Jul 25, 2011 at 12:31 PM. )
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 12:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Macfreak7 View Post
Moving on to Mail.app. Can't access the menu bar while composing a message. I need it to paste "and match style" without having to memorize the shortcut. Reminds me of System 7 (I think?) where you could manually assign a shortcut to a command within the menu.
Works for me. Just move my mouse to the top and the menu appears.
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 08:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Works for me. Just move my mouse to the top and the menu appears.
Same for me. Working fine.
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 11:04 PM
 
Safari 5.1 is a useless f*cking piece of shit.

It's such a dog. WTF, Apple. I'm so pissed. I'm getting beach balls galore, it's slow, Java doesn't work. POS.

-t
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 11:12 PM
 
Java seems to work for some and not for others. This is clearly a bug that will be fixed. Until them, perhaps a downgrade is in order. Have you reset Safari and perhaps reinstalled Java?
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 11:21 PM
 
I reinstalled Java 3 times.

I haven't reset Safari. What does it "reset" ? What gets deleted ?

-t
     
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Jul 25, 2011, 11:50 PM
 
The lack of fine audio and brightness adjustment drove me batty!!! Can't hold option+shift and volume up / down or brightness up / down anymore! I don't get it! I use that all the time when trying to listen to stuff late at night.

I've had to revert back to snow leopard, just too much crap going wonky for me right now. I use "show all windows" expose option ALL the time and it's no longer there, thanks mission control... *sigh*

Stacks and launchpad were laggy as hell too for me. I went to the Apple store this past Saturday, and played with the display models and Lion seemed to exhibit the same chunkiness I was experiencing. I hope they are able to fix some of this crap with an update. I'm kind of displeased with its performance.

I liked some things about it, but Snow Leopard just performs so much better for me right now.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 12:20 AM
 
So...OS X Vista?
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 12:23 AM
 
I wouldn't give up on Lion yet. Apple has some fixin' to do, let's give it some time to get done.

For me, Lion was not a step forward. Actually, SL was more of a step forward than Lion is. Let's see what Apple has up their sleeves.

-t
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 12:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Safari 5.1 is a useless f*cking piece of shit.

It's such a dog. WTF, Apple. I'm so pissed. I'm getting beach balls galore, it's slow, Java doesn't work. POS.

-t
Same here, minus the Java (I think). Preach on brother Beavis!
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 12:28 AM
 
Snow Leopard rocks. I'm a moron for upgrading so soon...
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 12:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
So...OS X Vista?
Nearly every new version of Mac OS X had kinks that needed to be worked out. There were massive threads about problems in previous new milestone releases. The UI changes in Lion are the biggest since perhaps 10.3 so there will be some difficulties. I think it's far too early to call it Vista at this point.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 12:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Nearly every new version of Mac OS X had kinks that needed to be worked out. There were massive threads about problems in previous new milestone releases. The UI changes in Lion are the biggest since perhaps 10.3 so there will be some difficulties. I think it's far too early to call it Vista at this point.

The UI is fine, no problems with it, it's the performance and responsiveness of the entire OS, so it seems.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 01:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Safari 5.1 is a useless f*cking piece of shit.

It's such a dog. WTF, Apple. I'm so pissed. I'm getting beach balls galore, it's slow, Java doesn't work. POS.

-t
Safari 5.1 flies for me, and I have no problems with my Java apps. Problem's on your end.
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Jul 26, 2011, 01:36 AM
 
Yeah, well, I don't know how to fix it. Worked well in SL, is toast in Lion.

I DO have those moments when Safari flies. Interrupted by looooong load times and freezes. Very inconsistent.

-t
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 02:11 AM
 
No issues with Safari here either. Did you do an update or clean install? What hardware?
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 02:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
No issues with Safari here either. Did you do an update or clean install? What hardware?

Clean install meaning a reformat? Unless I was blind I didn't see any particular upgrade options in the installer.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 02:17 AM
 
If you created a DVD/USB boot drive you can boot off it, go to disk utility from the installer and format. Then install clean. Thats what I do with EVERY major OS version. Prevents troubleshooting of what app is causing hell.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 02:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
If you created a DVD/USB boot drive you can boot off it, go to disk utility from the installer and format. Then install clean. Thats what I do with EVERY major OS version. Prevents troubleshooting of what app is causing hell.

I might have to try that, but I think I will first see if I can reproduce this in another user account on the same machine. If I can't, this entire process of reformatting and restoring my home directory from a backup would be a waste of time.

Have you tried this yet Turtle?
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 02:31 AM
 
Yeah, at this point that should be the the last option, I agree.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 02:50 AM
 
I don't know how this upgrade has fared compared to others in OS X's history on the whole (post 10.2 or whatever), but this has definitely been the rockiest for me.

It started when my internet connection dropped and the Mac App store figured that my download was done since it apparently doesn't checksum downloaded files (which is rather troublesome). So, I had to delete this file (and not just move it out of my Applications folder) and reattempt the download. There is a whole discussion thread on the Apple support forums with several people complaining about this same problem. Some of these people have apparently had to download the entire file 5 or 6 times, I guess I'm fortunate that I only had to re-download it once.

I'm also having several performance problems, as mentioned.

I think my official upgrade recommendation will be to hold off for a bit. Not just because of my problems, I have no idea how widespread they have been, but also because apps have to be tweaked to take advantage of Lion's new features, so the entire experience is rather inconsistent right now. Maybe by 10.7.1 or 10.7.2 or so this will have changed.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 02:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Yeah, well, I don't know how to fix it. Worked well in SL, is toast in Lion.

I DO have those moments when Safari flies. Interrupted by looooong load times and freezes. Very inconsistent.
are you using any extensions? Especially SafariRestore?
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 03:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
are you using any extensions? Especially SafariRestore?

Good thinking!

I had Validator, AdBlock, ClickToFlash, and YouTube video downloader enabled. I've disabled all but ClickToFlash and AdBlock to see if this will help. I may just switch back to using Chrome if this doesn't help, because even if Safari were to work properly without either of these extensions I think I'll ultimately be happier in Chrome for now.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 03:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Good thinking!

I had Validator, AdBlock, ClickToFlash, and YouTube video downloader enabled. I've disabled all but ClickToFlash and AdBlock to see if this will help. I may just switch back to using Chrome if this doesn't help, because even if Safari were to work properly without either of these extensions I think I'll ultimately be happier in Chrome for now.
FWIW, I've found AdBlock to be problematic. I just have an ever-expanding hosts file.
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Jul 26, 2011, 03:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Don Pickett View Post
FWIW, I've found AdBlock to be problematic. I just have an ever-expanding hosts file.

Wow, I admire your patience with that
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 03:29 AM
 
Safari in Lion rocks.
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Jul 26, 2011, 03:32 AM
 
This seems to be new in Lion.

Multiple users can simultaneous share one computer running Lion using 'Share Screen' or some VNC client.

It's pretty sweet. Now I need to install Lion on a Quad-core i7 and set that up as a Lion Server providing virtualization services.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
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June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
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Jul 26, 2011, 03:35 AM
 
I'm not only having random and inconsistent performance problems, but I'm getting many dialogs that prompt me to reload all pages, I'm getting pages that are "stuck" and reloading them doesn't change this despite the UI showing that a reload is being attempted (I have to close the tab and open the page in a new tab). The latter just occurred since disabling those extensions.

Safari in Lion does rock, Webkit2 seems to have solved the problem of performance going to hell with many tabs open, and when the app seems to be working fine Safari is very responsive. It just wigs out for me randomly and sporadically.

I'll try this in another user account when I have the time.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 05:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
This seems to be new in Lion.

Multiple users can simultaneous share one computer running Lion using 'Share Screen' or some VNC client.

It's pretty sweet. Now I need to install Lion on a Quad-core i7 and set that up as a Lion Server providing virtualization services.
Wonder why they enabled it then banned it in the EULA though.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 08:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Andrej View Post
Another thing I just found out is that Lion's "Wi-Fi" is incompatible with my campus wireless. I get disconnected every 1-4 minutes and have to restart my wireless manually all the time.
Anyone else having this problem at their workplace?

Also: I'm having this same issue at my apartment, but it was also happening in 10.6, and I think that it's a Fair(ly)Point(less) issue because those rednecks keep accelerating the severity of customer's inability to get online.

I have no idea anymore who to contact anymore for internet troubles: my ISP, Apple, my workplace, or me to troubleshoot a setting somewhere in 10.7.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 04:28 PM
 
Why not start with troubleshooting on your end so that this can be ruled out?
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 04:38 PM
 
Sounds like you need to check your router out.

Try switch your security and see if that helps (WPA, WPA2)
Try another channel
If using N try running at 2.5 and 5GHz and compare.

My router was the problem for me when I had those issues. There are like 20 hotspots in my area and I'm sure interference was my issue so I got a stronger router (for N wireless, as well) and also run on 5GHz. Haven't had an issue since then.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 06:08 PM
 
My university's system, I have no idea what router they're using.
My apartment's internet doesn't use a router, just a DSL modem.
(mods delete post- redundant)
( Last edited by And.reg; Jul 26, 2011 at 06:31 PM. )
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 06:31 PM
 
My university's system, I have no idea what router they're using.
My apartment's internet doesn't use a router, just a DSL modem.

I saw a suggestion to add
8.8.8.8
8.8.1.1
as DNS entries into the wireless advanced options. I've done that and that *seems* to be working for the moment.
     
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Jul 26, 2011, 07:33 PM
 
You don't tend to get wifi without a router somewhere.

You must have been pointing to a bad DNS server before then.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
 
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