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The official Lion thread™ (Page 6)
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Jul 27, 2011, 12:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Works for me. Just move my mouse to the top and the menu appears.
I guess it was another "temporary" bug? It seems to have solved itself after a restart for me now.
Another bug in Mail.app prior to the restart was messages not updating when I browsed thru mailboxes by selecting mailboxes in the toolbar. The side bar on the other hand worked just fine with updating messages from the server. Again this somehow isn't recurring anymore.

Question : How do you browse versions of a document when in full screen mode? For example in Numbers you option click the titlebar when windowed, but in full screen there is no title bar for documents.
( Last edited by Macfreak7; Jul 27, 2011 at 03:05 AM. Reason: to = do, done.)
     
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Jul 27, 2011, 01:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Don Pickett View Post
FWIW, I've found AdBlock to be problematic. I just have an ever-expanding hosts file.
I've found AdBlock to be problematic as well. Renders some sites useless. Clicktoflash is much better and more elegant solution.
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Jul 27, 2011, 02:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I've found AdBlock to be problematic as well. Renders some sites useless. Clicktoflash is much better and more elegant solution.

FWIW Adblock has worked flawlessly for me in Chrome.
     
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Jul 27, 2011, 02:59 AM
 
Apologies for bringing this up again, but the "can't close tabs bug" has reared it's ugly head again. Bug report sent to Apple.
Here's a partial screenshot. When working right an "x" mark should appear upon mousing over, instead the close button is missing/broken.

     
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Jul 27, 2011, 06:42 AM
 
     
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Jul 27, 2011, 08:53 AM
 
This may have been covered before but I can't be bothered to read the last 8 pages or so.

I tried to install Lion on my MBP having restored the InstallESD image to a USB drive. I alt-booted from the USB and when the 'initialising installer'-type progress bar appears it promptly stops and says there was an error in installation. Don't even get to pick a language or anything.

It turns out you have to run the "Install Mac OS X Lion" installer app booted from Snow Leopard which downloads a couple of files (nothing massive) and then reboots from the flash drive Lion Installer.
I put my install straight onto a blank partition so as has definitely been mentioned, Lion does not need to upgrade an install of Snow Leopard, just requires it to download some key components and presumably do something to the destination drive before installation.
My guess then is that you will make good use of a Snow Leopard install (NOT installer) on an external disk of some kind if you are looking to install on blank machines or upgrade direct from Leopard or Tiger.

Hope that helps some people.
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Jul 27, 2011, 09:19 AM
 
AFAIK, running the install app actually copies the necessary stuff to a known location on the hard drive and sets up the recovery partition, which is what the Mac is then booted from. Nothing is downloaded.
     
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Jul 27, 2011, 09:54 AM
 
Mine told me it was downloading something. I didn't bother to investigate what that might have been.
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Jul 27, 2011, 01:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
AFAIK, running the install app actually copies the necessary stuff to a known location on the hard drive and sets up the recovery partition, which is what the Mac is then booted from. Nothing is downloaded.
It does do some downloading. First it downloads the Lion Software Update catalog. Then, if your existing installation has Server on it, it downloads an extra package to install out of the SU catalog. That's all I've been able to figure out so far, but since it's downloading the SU catalog, it's possible that after 10.7.1 comes out, it might automatically grab that when installing the OS. That would be kind of cool — we'll have to wait and see whether it actually does this, though.

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Jul 27, 2011, 03:46 PM
 
Just noticed my iSight camera is no longer recognized after upgrading to Lion.

Edit: This is on a 13" MBA (Late 2010 model)
     
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Jul 27, 2011, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
FWIW Adblock has worked flawlessly for me in Chrome.
Not for me. Some webpages just don't load correctly with Adblock installed.

But Clicktoflash is still a more elegant solution. I can still view some flash components on the webpage by clicking on it.
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June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
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Jul 27, 2011, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Not for me. Some webpages just don't load correctly with Adblock installed.

But Clicktoflash is still a more elegant solution. I can still view some flash components on the webpage by clicking on it.

A more elegant solution than AdBlock maybe if AdBlock has been giving you problems, but I think the most elegant solution of them all is the ClickToPlay plug-in blocking built right into Chrome.
     
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Jul 27, 2011, 04:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Just noticed my iSight camera is no longer recognized after upgrading to Lion.

Edit: This is on a 13" MBA (Late 2010 model)
same thing happened on my 13" mb. try resetting the SMC (google for your particular mac), it worked for me...
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Jul 27, 2011, 09:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
same thing happened on my 13" mb. try resetting the SMC (google for your particular mac), it worked for me...
No luck. Tried it several times. No FaceTime for me I guess
     
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Jul 27, 2011, 10:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
No luck. Tried it several times. No FaceTime for me I guess
reset PRAM? (hold command-option-P-R on boot, wait for 3rd chime before releasing).

or...call apple...
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Jul 28, 2011, 09:20 AM
 
All I have to say is that this Lion install process is becoming a major pain in the ass. I've already gotten a few people asking me why they can't update their 10.5 Leopard machines.

---

BTW, if I want to do a clean wipe of a 10.7 machine, does disk utility delete the hidden partition too?

EDIT:

Yes, but you have to format the entire drive.

http://osxdaily.com/2011/06/30/delet...-hd-partition/

My drive is partitioned into two partitions, boot + data (plus the hidden partition), so if I want two partitions again I'll have to reformat and then repartition. Again, a pain.

--

Also, is it possible to have multiple 10.7 installs on the same drive? I backup my boot drives this way. I get a big external drive and then partition it into multiple partitions, one for each boot drive backup. Even if you can do this, what happens if you restore to the backup to a clean drive without the hidden partition?
( Last edited by Eug; Jul 28, 2011 at 09:32 AM. )
     
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Jul 28, 2011, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
A more elegant solution than AdBlock maybe if AdBlock has been giving you problems, but I think the most elegant solution of them all is the ClickToPlay plug-in blocking built right into Chrome.
Even more elegant is GlimmerBlocker, though I don’t think it works in Lion yet. It got disabled around about DP 3 or so, and I haven’t tried to reinstall yet.
     
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Jul 28, 2011, 11:13 AM
 
Anyone using multiple monitors with Lion? It's horrid! When you set an app to full screen mode the secondary monitor just goes blank (well.. it has the grey background) and you can't place anything there. I thought maybe I could drag a tab from Safari onto the other monitor but no luck. It placed the tab in another full screen instance of Safari. Does not a single developer at Apple have a multi-monitor setup? Spaces/Mission Control gets ugly with multiple monitors as well. They really need to give you the option of excluding a monitor from Spaces. Gimme one monitor that is static, and the other can have all the fancy LaunchPad, Spaces, MissionControl crap. (And yes, I've been sending Apple feedback about Spaces and multiple monitors for what seems like years).

On a side note. I was able to install Lion very easily on my Hackintosh although it does require having multiple drives.
     
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Jul 28, 2011, 11:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Also, is it possible to have multiple 10.7 installs on the same drive? I backup my boot drives this way. I get a big external drive and then partition it into multiple partitions, one for each boot drive backup. Even if you can do this, what happens if you restore to the backup to a clean drive without the hidden partition?
I would guess if you partition the drive as you want it, then run the Lion installer from Snow Leopard and install on the first one, you ought to be able to alt-boot from your installer disk and do the rest of the partitions one at a time.
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Jul 28, 2011, 12:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
All I have to say is that this Lion install process is becoming a major pain in the ass. I've already gotten a few people asking me why they can't update their 10.5 Leopard machines.

Also, is it possible to have multiple 10.7 installs on the same drive? I backup my boot drives this way. I get a big external drive and then partition it into multiple partitions, one for each boot drive backup. Even if you can do this, what happens if you restore to the backup to a clean drive without the hidden partition?
The most confusing thing that Apple did was not explain the reason for the requirement. The ONLY reason that 10.6.6 is required is because that is the version that includes the App Store, so you can buy Lion. Lion is a full install OS not an upgrade.

If you have multiple partitions on the drive you 'should' be able to install multiple copies of the OS on the same drive. As far as the hidden partition I'm not sure how it will handle that though, since that is created on the first install. I'm not sure if it will create one for each OS, or just over rite and have one partition for both.

The best way to avoid all these install issues to a USB drive or DVD BEFORE you install it. Once you do that, all this other issues go out the window. Boot off your device and install like you are use to. What OS running on the machine doesn't matter, etc. If you need to do a format (which I always recommend), just launch disk utility and do that then install like normal.
     
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Jul 28, 2011, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
The best way to avoid all these install issues to a USB drive or DVD BEFORE you install it. Once you do that, all this other issues go out the window. Boot off your device and install like you are use to. What OS running on the machine doesn't matter, etc. If you need to do a format (which I always recommend), just launch disk utility and do that then install like normal.
Unless my experience was unique you have to run the installer from a fully installed (Snow Leopard) partition. When I booted from my USB image the quit without giving me any options until I ran the installer which downloaded a couple of components and presumably built the hidden partition.
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Jul 28, 2011, 06:24 PM
 
I'd be interested to know if anyone can view the whole video on this page full screen without Safari going beach ball on them.

Avengers (1998) - Top 20 Worst Summer Blockbusters - TIME

I have YouTube5 and click to flash Safari extensions installed, although disabling it doesn't appear to make any difference.
     
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Jul 28, 2011, 06:45 PM
 
Diggory: when this happens are you getting spindumps being reported in your logs (viewable through your Console app)? I've been getting a lot of these which I'm pretty sure is causing the slowdowns, it's just a matter of pinpointing the bad extension.

If an extension is what is giving you these problems, it appears that the whole extensions infrastructure has had a hard time making the jump to Webkit2 unscathed.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 12:29 AM
 
The Snow Leopard intermediary for the Lion upgrade has created an interesting side effect. Several of my friends have upgraded most of their machines to Snow Leopard, and then left them there. They tried Lion on some but ran into issues (often with 3rd party software though of course, but also with Lion itself). OTOH, Snow Leopard was a nice improvement to their 10.5 installs, but without the 10.7 Lion issues.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 01:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Anyone using multiple monitors with Lion? It's horrid! When you set an app to full screen mode the secondary monitor just goes blank (well.. it has the grey background) and you can't place anything there. I thought maybe I could drag a tab from Safari onto the other monitor but no luck. It placed the tab in another full screen instance of Safari. Does not a single developer at Apple have a multi-monitor setup? Spaces/Mission Control gets ugly with multiple monitors as well. They really need to give you the option of excluding a monitor from Spaces. Gimme one monitor that is static, and the other can have all the fancy LaunchPad, Spaces, MissionControl crap. (And yes, I've been sending Apple feedback about Spaces and multiple monitors for what seems like years).

On a side note. I was able to install Lion very easily on my Hackintosh although it does require having multiple drives.
The one thing I dislike about Lion so far. Full screen doesn't work well with multiple monitors. I wish I can put mail on one screen and the calendar on the other screen. I'm just left with a nice wallpaper on the other screen.
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June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 01:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Diggory Laycock View Post
I'd be interested to know if anyone can view the whole video on this page full screen without Safari going beach ball on them.

Avengers (1998) - Top 20 Worst Summer Blockbusters - TIME

I have YouTube5 and click to flash Safari extensions installed, although disabling it doesn't appear to make any difference.
Plays smooth as butter in full screen. I have clicktoflash and all I had to do was click to flash, then click to full screen.
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June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 02:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
The one thing I dislike about Lion so far. Full screen doesn't work well with multiple monitors. I wish I can put mail on one screen and the calendar on the other screen. I'm just left with a nice wallpaper on the other screen.
What's the point of full-screen mode if you're on multiple monitors?
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 02:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
What's the point of full-screen mode if you're on multiple monitors?
Did you not even read what I just wrote? I like having calendar in full-screen mode on one screen and email is full-screen mode on the other.

Maybe it's pointless to you. That's like asking what's the point of having multiple monitors.

Some people like working in full screen mode. Some people like working with applications in full screen mode with multiple monitors.

There are many scenarios where I would like having one app in full screen mode, with the other screen running other apps.
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June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 03:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
All I have to say is that this Lion install process is becoming a major pain in the ass. I've already gotten a few people asking me why they can't update their 10.5 Leopard machines.

---

BTW, if I want to do a clean wipe of a 10.7 machine, does disk utility delete the hidden partition too?

EDIT:

Yes, but you have to format the entire drive.

Deleting the Mac OS X 10.7 Lion “Recovery HD” Partition

My drive is partitioned into two partitions, boot + data (plus the hidden partition), so if I want two partitions again I'll have to reformat and then repartition. Again, a pain.
I think you might be able to delete the hidden partition using the diskutil program on the command line.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
What's the point of full-screen mode if you're on multiple monitors?
What's the point of full-screen mode at all?

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Jul 29, 2011, 05:02 AM
 
Shaving an extra twenty pixels off the interface when running on a 13" laptop display: excellent.

Running a single-focus application that blocks out all other distractions: excellent, depending upon what you do and how you roll.

When you're running two monitors, the point of doing so presumably makes both of those scenarios irrelevant. (I do understand video in fullscreen on a second monitor, and don't get why QuickTime can't do that, but anything else can, so…)



To pick up the example from above:
What does iCal do in full-screen mode that it DOESN'T when you simply resize the window to fill the second monitor?
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 08:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
What's the point of full-screen mode if you're on multiple monitors?
I don't see why that makes any difference. It's still nice at times to dedicate the entire screen to a single app regardless.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Shaving an extra twenty pixels off the interface when running on a 13" laptop display: excellent.

Running a single-focus application that blocks out all other distractions: excellent, depending upon what you do and how you roll.

When you're running two monitors, the point of doing so presumably makes both of those scenarios irrelevant. (I do understand video in fullscreen on a second monitor, and don't get why QuickTime can't do that, but anything else can, so…)



To pick up the example from above:
What does iCal do in full-screen mode that it DOESN'T when you simply resize the window to fill the second monitor?

Maybe my scenario is unique but I use my secondary monitor to run a full screen instance of VMware Fusion. I also can frequently have 4 or 5 remote desktop sessions running in full screen mode as well. I like to dedicate my secondary monitor for those. My plan is to buy a third monitor so Fusion/Windows is on one monitor, my remote desktop sessions are on another monitor, and all my Mac OS stuff is running on the third:

Code:
+----------------+ +----------------+ +----------------+ | | | | | | | Fusion | | Mac OS | | CoRD | | | | | | | +----------------+ +----------------+ +----------------+
So in this case I'll have my left and right monitors running in full screen mode with a single app. My center monitor will be running all my "normal" stuff: Mail, Adium, Skype, Safari, iTunes etc. If I were to place an app such as Mail in full screen mode, it would obscure my left and right monitor. That's just plain stupid. I still like the idea of maintaining separate spaces in my center monitor and running apps full screen. It's a personal preference thing. With Spaces in Snow Leopard, you can tell it to show a particular app in all spaces. This came close to locking a single monitor to a single app but it was still a little messy. (Oddly enough, I can't find those settings in Lion but it preserved my spaces setup from my Snow Leopard install.) So I'm back to where I started... just give me the ability to exclude a monitor from Spaces/Mission Control.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 08:57 AM
 
Heh. I haven't been able to run multi-monitor on my iMac in 10.6 since 10.6.3. Apple's update borked support for a whole bunch of third party monitors.

AFAIK, 10.7 restores compatibility for some monitors, but if I can't watch QT clip full screen on one screen while working in the other, I will be quite annoyed. From what you guys have said, it sounds like somebody at the Apple UI design dept. was stoned or something. WTF?
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 09:17 AM
 
Might be able to help with the VM: Try one of those USB to DVI adaptors. They are cheap and work fine if you aren't doing anything graphics intensive (which of course you won't be on a VM) and they can be locked to the VM so are not governed by Lion at all.
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Jul 29, 2011, 09:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Heh. I haven't been able to run multi-monitor on my iMac in 10.6 since 10.6.3. Apple's update borked support for a whole bunch of third party monitors.

AFAIK, 10.7 restores compatibility for some monitors, but if I can't watch QT clip full screen on one screen while working in the other, I will be quite annoyed. From what you guys have said, it sounds like somebody at the Apple UI design dept. was stoned or something. WTF?
Since the vast majority of Macs are either iMacs or MacBooks I suspect the number of people running OS X with multiple monitors is minuscule. Sucks for those of us that are since Apple doesn't seem to be paying any thought to it.


On a separate note, how's VPN working for everyone? I'm finding it flaky under Lion. I connect to my office with Cisco IPSec. I'm getting random disconnects and at times it will tell me it can't connect at all to the server. But then my other computer will connect just fine. Under Snow Leopard I could have connections open for days.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 09:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Might be able to help with the VM: Try one of those USB to DVI adaptors. They are cheap and work fine if you aren't doing anything graphics intensive (which of course you won't be on a VM) and they can be locked to the VM so are not governed by Lion at all.
Hmmm... interesting concept. I'll have to look into that.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 09:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
I don't see why that makes any difference. It's still nice at times to dedicate the entire screen to a single app regardless.
The point is that full-screen mode is designed to do exactly two things:

1. Hide distracting content
2. Hide screen-real-estate-eating controls such as the menu bar.

If you can dedicate an entire monitor of a multi-screen setup to an application, you specifically DON'T want to hide the content of other applications. So point 1.) simply doesn't apply.

Which leaves point 2.) - but the screen you're going to dedicate entirely to an app *probably* won't be the main screen, so the menu bar will be on another screen, anyway.

I'll ask again:

What does full-screen mode offer for multi-display systems that simply resizing the window doesn't?

From what I gather, your main gripe is with Spaces/Lion's Mission-Control Spaces, not with full-screen mode.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 10:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
The point is that full-screen mode is designed to do exactly two things:

1. Hide distracting content
2. Hide screen-real-estate-eating controls such as the menu bar.

If you can dedicate an entire monitor of a multi-screen setup to an application, you specifically DON'T want to hide the content of other applications. So point 1.) simply doesn't apply.
Wrong! Maybe for you. I want the ability to hide the content of other applications... even in a 3 monitor setup.


Which leaves point 2.) - but the screen you're going to dedicate entirely to an app *probably* won't be the main screen, so the menu bar will be on another screen, anyway.

I'll ask again:

What does full-screen mode offer for multi-display systems that simply resizing the window doesn't?

From what I gather, your main gripe is with Spaces/Lion's Mission-Control Spaces, not with full-screen mode.
Actually my gripe is with both. It's hard to separate the two since technically a full screen app is it's own space. In my scenario above if I have just a single space and decide to set Mail to full screen my left and right monitor will become obscured. I could open a second space for Mail and then expand the Mail app to fill the screen but that doesn't quite give me the same user experience. My center monitor will be the one with the menu bar and dock.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Wrong! Maybe for you. I want the ability to hide the content of other applications... even in a 3 monitor setup.
Either you and I have completely different readings of "resizing a window to fill the entire screen", or Lion's full-screen mode does EXACTLY what you ask, and you have no grounds to complain.

What am I missing?
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 12:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Either you and I have completely different readings of "resizing a window to fill the entire screen", or Lion's full-screen mode does EXACTLY what you ask, and you have no grounds to complain.

What am I missing?
Okay... for the third time, in a multiple monitor setup, if I set a single app to full screen, the app will fill just ONE of the monitors and obscure what is on the other monitors. That is unacceptable for my needs. I want to be able to see the original content of the other monitors and utilize the new full screen functionality in the one monitor where the app is present. If I give up on using "true" full screen and just "resize the window to fill the entire screen" I will still have the menubar and dock visible on my screen. Remember, in my specific example, the left and right monitors are intended to have static content (Fusion and CoRD) so it's just the center monitor that I will be using for the rest of my apps. This center monitor will have the menubar and dock.

Someone help me out here. Am I not explaining this well?
     
Eug
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Jul 29, 2011, 12:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Since the vast majority of Macs are either iMacs or MacBooks I suspect the number of people running OS X with multiple monitors is minuscule.
MacBook Pros are very popular for multi-monitor. And at least the Aperture crowd loves multi-monitor too. I suspect it's true for a lot of the designer and editor crowd too.

BTW, I'm running an iMac, and was using multi-monitor until 10.6.4 removed support for BOTH of my 3rd party monitors. And I know it's not a monitor hardware issue because if I boot a backup of 10.6.3 the same monitors work absolutely fine. IIRC, The 10.7 beta worked fine with those monitors.

Which reminds me. I couldn't update a 10.7 beta machine to 10.7. The installer hangs. So, I will do a reformat and install. (Nothing critical on that machine.)

Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Okay... for the third time, in a multiple monitor setup, if I set a single app to full screen, the app will fill just ONE of the monitors and obscure what is on the other monitors. That is unacceptable for my needs. I want to be able to see the original content of the other monitors and utilize the new full screen functionality in the one monitor where the app is present. If I give up on using "true" full screen and just "resize the window to fill the entire screen" I will still have the menubar and dock visible on my screen. Remember, in my specific example, the left and right monitors are intended to have static content (Fusion and CoRD) so it's just the center monitor that I will be using for the rest of my apps. This center monitor will have the menubar and dock.

Someone help me out here. Am I not explaining this well?
I understand. That would suck.

I have a couple of scenarios where this would suck.

1) VPN. I use full-screen for VPN on one monitor, and then run other apps on the other monitor.

2) Quicktime. I play QT full-screen on one monitor, and then run other apps on the other monitor.

3) VMware. I VMware full-screen on one monitor, and then run other apps on the other monitor. (However, I don't actually do this any more since I just bought a PC for this instead.)

4) Etc.

5) Some combination of the above.
( Last edited by Eug; Jul 29, 2011 at 12:28 PM. )
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Okay... for the third time, in a multiple monitor setup, if I set a single app to full screen, the app will fill just ONE of the monitors and obscure what is on the other monitors. That is unacceptable for my needs. I want to be able to see the original content of the other monitors and utilize the new full screen functionality in the one monitor where the app is present. If I give up on using "true" full screen and just "resize the window to fill the entire screen" I will still have the menubar and dock visible on my screen.
On the OTHER screen!

You're almost ALWAYS gonna have a menu bar visible on some screen, unless you run all apps in full-screen (provided Apple's system full-screen supports multiple monitors eventually).

So you will have the left and right monitors for other uses, AND you want the center monitor in full-screen?

Honestly, with that much real estate, I utterly fail to see the twenty-pixel advantage.


As for the Dock: Cmd-Opt-D. Used it for ten years.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 01:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
On the OTHER screen!

You're almost ALWAYS gonna have a menu bar visible on some screen, unless you run all apps in full-screen (provided Apple's system full-screen supports multiple monitors eventually).

So you will have the left and right monitors for other uses, AND you want the center monitor in full-screen?
Yes, exactly.

Honestly, with that much real estate, I utterly fail to see the twenty-pixel advantage.
It's not about a 20-pixel advantage. It's about allowing me to focus on a single app on each monitor. May seem useless to you but it's important to me.

As for the Dock: Cmd-Opt-D. Used it for ten years.
In non-full screen mode I like to see the dock at all times.


It comes down to choices. And as we know, Apple is not inclined to give us many. They have very specific ideas of how a user should be using the OS.

I honestly doubt Apple will ever give me what I want in this regard. Hell, how about giving me a simple way to extend my iTunes library on to multiple volumes. Some things just will never happen. Apple knows best.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
It's not about a 20-pixel advantage. It's about allowing me to focus on a single app on each monitor. May seem useless to you but it's important to me.
And resizing the window to fill the screen precludes you from doing this how?



Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
In non-full screen mode I like to see the dock at all times.

It comes down to choices. And as we know, Apple is not inclined to give us many. They have very specific ideas of how a user should be using the OS.
I think they have very specific ideas of how the majority of users will probably want to use the OS.

The rest will whine for a while, and then deal with life.

Apple does back down on occasion, though.

Remember all those designers who were completely unable to work because the happy horseshit gumdrop window widgets were so distracting to their fragile little colorspaces? Apple gave them neutral gray widgets that nobody gives a shit about anymore.

Hell, we even have border-resizable windows now and complete waste-of-space-and-break-depth-of-screen full-screen mode (which completely breaks one of the fundamental pillars of the Mac interface since 1989), for whatever bizarre reason.

I honestly doubt Apple will ever give me what I want in this regard. Hell, how about giving me a simple way to extend my iTunes library on to multiple volumes. Some things just will never happen. Apple knows best.
I hear you on the iTunes thing, although in all honesty, now that you can get a 2TB drive for under $100, it stopped being an issue for me.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 01:58 PM
 
Oh shut up, analogica.

Apple offers fullscreen, then it should "just work". To say that a bad implementation doesn't matter, because the user shouldn't want to use the feature anyway, is the most stupid line of argumentation I have read outside the political lounge in a long time.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 02:25 PM
 
since the new OS is distributed via the app store, do you think we will be able to download the full 10.7.1 or .2 when they are released, instead of 10.7 and then update? I would prefer to wait and buy a ironed-out version.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Oh shut up, analogica.

Apple offers fullscreen, then it should "just work". To say that a bad implementation doesn't matter, because the user shouldn't want to use the feature anyway, is the most stupid line of argumentation I have read outside the political lounge in a long time.
It does "just work". It's just built for (mostly) laptop users. (A.k.a. "You're holding it wrong" )


Look, I have no problem with whining when Apple ****s up — and they do (hello, Address Book!).

But in this case, full-screen is obviously intended for a certain usage scenario (since it's just WTF? if you have multiple monitors), but it's arguably an additional function and not in any way worse than what went before, because Apple didn't actually change anything for those who choose not to use this NEW functionality (well, except for QuickTime movies ALSO not going full-screen on a secondary monitor any more, apparently: that's another WTF).

Would you like to whine about the three-finger and four-finger gestures that are useless to you, because you use a mouse and an Intuos tablet? Go right ahead. It's obviously a bad implementation.


Maybe Apple will change it — there's certainly a number of issues with the handling of spaces and Mission Control and switching between them that are in need of some streamlining.


Partly, it's also that I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what the whining is about, as I consider full-screen mode a pile of limiting, useless crap on anything larger than a 1440x900-pixel screen, anyway.

But then, I never understood the guys complaining about the gumdrop widgets, either, so it's probably just me.
     
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Jul 29, 2011, 09:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Okay... for the third time, in a multiple monitor setup, if I set a single app to full screen, the app will fill just ONE of the monitors and obscure what is on the other monitors. That is unacceptable for my needs. I want to be able to see the original content of the other monitors and utilize the new full screen functionality in the one monitor where the app is present. If I give up on using "true" full screen and just "resize the window to fill the entire screen" I will still have the menubar and dock visible on my screen. Remember, in my specific example, the left and right monitors are intended to have static content (Fusion and CoRD) so it's just the center monitor that I will be using for the rest of my apps. This center monitor will have the menubar and dock.

Someone help me out here. Am I not explaining this well?
You are explaining it fine. I completely agree with you, Apple's implementation is stupid. There is no sensible reason to obscure the contents of the other displays.
     
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Jul 30, 2011, 04:27 PM
 
So, Apple has released the "Mac OS X 10.6.8 Supplemental Update", which "resolves issues with
transferring personal data, settings, and compatible applications from a Mac running Mac OS X Snow Leopard to a new Mac running Mac OS X Lion."

In other words, Apple has discovered that you need to update two operating systems to fix one bug.
     
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Jul 30, 2011, 05:05 PM
 
The migration assistant seems to be very unreliable, even in previous versions.

Tried to transfer data from Tiger to SL.
Gets stuck every single time.

-t
     
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Jul 30, 2011, 10:30 PM
 
Never had a problem with the migration assistant so far.

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
 
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