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OS X v10.8 - Mountain Lion
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Feb 16, 2012, 10:27 AM
 
This morning, at 6am PST, to be exact, Apple released details of the next version of OS X, dubbed Mountain Lion.

Link to Apple: Apple - OS X Mountain Lion. Innovation comes back to the Mac.

Looks like a nice update, though minor. I think the notification center is most welcome.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 10:44 AM
 
Notification Center looks somehow ... familiar.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 10:47 AM
 
In a good way. Growl is good, but it hasn't been cutting it for me. And I think more apps will come to take advantage of notification center.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 10:49 AM
 
I'd like to grab the Messages beta but looks like everyone else had the same idea.

Spotted anything on Mountain Lion Server yet?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 10:50 AM
 
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 11:09 AM
 
Mountain Lion...are they really too wimpy to call it Cougar?
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 11:14 AM
 
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 11:18 AM
 
The Gatekeeper feature is actually pretty brilliant and seems to be proactive.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 11:37 AM
 
It's just an expansion of what is already in the Mac App Store. I like it, sure - it might help with stopping trojans - but I'd also like to see it in practice. For instance, if it can be made to allow temporary exceptions, I'd probably leave it on the default, but if not, it goes to "Allow all" the first thing that happens after install.

I'm also missing that one big feature. This is all minor things.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 11:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
That really is a new way to do things for Apple. I wonder who and how many people were given this preview? (I think it's odd that a blogger like Gruber was given this one-on-one, but Ars Technica was not.)

Apple's move to yearly updates is very unexpected. But it should keep feature parity between iOS and OS X, which is probably the point.

I think restricting Notification Center and iCloud Storage to Mac App Store apps is wrong-headed.

Game Center for Mac is an unexpected feature. Will that be restricted to Mac App Store games also?
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
That really is a new way to do things for Apple. I wonder who and how many people were given this preview? (I think it's odd that a blogger like Gruber was given this one-on-one, but Ars Technica was not.)
That's not unusual at all or new. Jobs was pretty well-known to give random people previews of new products, especially Walt Mossberg. Gruber is considered one of the leading and most-read Apple evangelists, so it makes sense. It's pretty clear that other outlets were given access ahead of time as well, given all the hands-on that appeared at the embargo time.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 01:15 PM
 
I knew they were going to name it Mountain Lion:


Originally Posted by Andrej on August 9, 2011 in this thread:  View Post
http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...0-8-screenshot
Not surprising to see 10.8 Mountain Lion with a Wild West theme...

Originally Posted by P View Post
Mountain Lion...are they really too wimpy to call it Cougar?

Told ya so!
This one time, at Boot Camp, I stuck a flute up my PC.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 01:27 PM
 
iMove ???

Why would they call it iMove in the section about Airplay streaming ?
Does this mean Movies will get separated from iTunes or the DVD player app ?

Apple - OS X Mountain Lion - Inspired by iPad. Made for the Mac.

-t
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Mountain Lion...are they really too wimpy to call it Cougar?
Like Snow Leopard to Leopard, I'm guessing they think this is not a big update over Lion. With the new annual update schedule, maybe every two years will be a major (paid) release and the other years will be updates and feature additions.

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Feb 16, 2012, 01:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
That's not unusual at all or new. Jobs was pretty well-known to give random people previews of new products, especially Walt Mossberg.
After they were announced. This is very different, as Gruber's post indicated.
Gruber is considered one of the leading and most-read Apple evangelists, so it makes sense. It's pretty clear that other outlets were given access ahead of time as well, given all the hands-on that appeared at the embargo time.
So far, Gruber is the only one I've seen that mentions being invited to a sit-down. All those "hands-on" appear to be nothing but responses to the post at Apple.com.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 01:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
After they were announced. This is very different, as Gruber's post indicated.
So far, Gruber is the only one I've seen that mentions being invited to a sit-down. All those "hands-on" appear to be nothing but responses to the post at Apple.com.
You think as soon as Apple released the PR that everyone instantly had video walkthroughs of it? The PR went out at 6am, the same time the embargo was lifted. Journos likely got their hands on Mountain Lion on Tuesday or Wednesday to have some time to play with it and make their videos.

No, those were before an announcement. Walt Mossberg wrote about seeing the iPhone and iPhone 4 before announcement right after Steve died, and his biography also tells him showing random people products before they were announced.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 01:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
iMove ???

Why would they call it iMove in the section about Airplay streaming ?
Does this mean Movies will get separated from iTunes or the DVD player app ?

Apple - OS X Mountain Lion - Inspired by iPad. Made for the Mac.

-t
It says iMovie. You can open iMovie and stream whatever you're currently working on to your TV. That's the way I understand it. Since the picture there for iMovie isn't of a released movie but a home video.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
You think as soon as Apple released the PR that everyone instantly had video walkthroughs of it?
You're shoving words in my mouth. I know some tech writers were given a sitdown and a developer preview so they could prep that stuff. I'm just curious who those people are.
The PR went out at 6am, the same time the embargo was lifted. Journos likely got their hands on Mountain Lion on Tuesday or Wednesday to have some time to play with it and make their videos.
Yes, I know some people got sitdowns and developer previews like Gruber did; I already said that, because I read it in Gruber's piece.
No, those were before an announcement. Walt Mossberg wrote about seeing the iPhone and iPhone 4 before announcement right after Steve died, and his biography also tells him showing random people products before they were announced.
I don't recall that. Do you have a link showing that Mossberg saw the iPhone before the big announcement? I'm skeptical.

But stay focused for a second, go back and read what Gruber said: this is different. Individualized presentations to tech writers by the VP of Marketing, and being given a MBA with Mountain Lion a week before a public announcement, is very different from what has been done before. A two-minute demo to Moss by Steve isn't quite the same thing.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
That really is a new way to do things for Apple. I wonder who and how many people were given this preview? (I think it's odd that a blogger like Gruber was given this one-on-one, but Ars Technica was not.)
Gruber's been an Apple insider for a long time. He gets product hints and information that nearly no one else is privy to. He's getting more access than ever before, but he's always had some inside info.

I just wish they'd give the same level of access to John Siracusa, but i guess that probably won't happen for obvious reasons.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Feb 16, 2012 at 02:52 PM. )

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Feb 16, 2012, 03:33 PM
 
Siracusa doesn't work for Ars Technica anymore. He only comes back to do the OS X reviews.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
After they were announced. This is very different, as Gruber's post indicated.
So far, Gruber is the only one I've seen that mentions being invited to a sit-down. All those "hands-on" appear to be nothing but responses to the post at Apple.com.
Well and Macworld, they said they had days to play with it.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 03:44 PM
 
One thing in Gruber's post stood out for me: It was just like a Keynote, but local for one person.

It's a great way for Apple to restrict the number of discerning reviewers looking sharply at a product, all sorts of folks together at one event, talking to each other, brainstorming about the value of a new product. The news gets out--but without a whole bunch of concentrated scrutiny. Naturally, the scrutiny comes later, but at a trickle, dribble here, dribble there, greatly diffused.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 04:23 PM
 
Lion's biggest problem is that Apple tried to turn your desktop macintosh into an iPad. This doubling-down on iOS features is freaking me out. It could work, if done properly. But I think it's much more likely that 10.8 is going to be worse than 10.7.

And I'm also concerned about the upgrade path. Are people with older Macs on 10.5, now going to have to buy 10.6 on CD, then 10.7 and then 10.8 from the App Store? What a hassle.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 07:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
And I'm also concerned about the upgrade path. Are people with older Macs on 10.5, now going to have to buy 10.6 on CD, then 10.7 and then 10.8 from the App Store? What a hassle.
The App Store works with 10.6 so people would not have to install 10.7 to get 10.8. Most Macs that are supported by Mountain Lion probably already shipped with at least 10.6 anyway, so it's no major issue.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 07:42 PM
 
I'm pretty excited about this, mostly because as has been pointed out, we're finally getting some consistency! We're not having things named a million different things! I wonder though if this means that iPhoto is going to get renamed Photos. Though perhaps also iPhoto might actually become an iPhone app.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 07:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Lion's biggest problem is that Apple tried to turn your desktop macintosh into an iPad. This doubling-down on iOS features is freaking me out. It could work, if done properly. But I think it's much more likely that 10.8 is going to be worse than 10.7.
That's not what's happening.

This is stuff like building Notes and Reminders, which FINALLY kills the idiocy of having half-assed broken lists of reminders in iCal, and Notes inaccessible and obscured somewhere among five thousand e-mails.

I'm more excited about Mountain Lion than I was about the Lion.

Sort of like I knew the iPhone 4S was the one I *really* wanted after having seen the 4.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 08:43 PM
 
I don't think they are trying to turn Macs into iPads (I used to think that). I think they are just trying to make it as easy as possible for people who use one Apple device to pick up any other Apple device and start using it without any help or instructions.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 08:47 PM
 
The consistency part is not what I'm complaining about. It's all of the annoying GUI tweaks. Optimizations that make sense if you have one small screen, and just slow you down if you have one or more large screens. I'm downloading the seed now. I sure hope they brought back some expose/spaces functionality. I had Lion on my desktop for months, snow leopard is SO much faster. Not just with the OS speed itself, but You are so much faster with SL. Things that take 4 clicks in Lion take one click in Snow Leopard.

There's no reason why Apple couldn't simply add more options to the OS. so the current "Lion" way of doing things id the default, but you could have the option to separate Mission Control into Spaces and Expose, and things like that. But WILL they do that? It's is absolutely painful trying to use Lion every day to do real work. I'll know what's up in a few hours...
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 09:33 PM
 
What apps do you use Spaces with? I found Spaces never worked terribly well for me either. When I'm working in Photoshop I like to also have something playing on my MacBook's monitor like a TV show or a movie, when that happens with Spaces the window gets moved around a ton. (Though I think all spaces keeps it there in SL not in Lion though) I did think Spaces was going to be great, but Adobe's apps which are the best ones to use Spaces with never worked well with them anyway.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 10:51 PM
 
It took me a long time to get Spaces working with with my work flow but I finally got it working well. I have the USB extended keyboard. So I made four spaces, with the four F keys above the number pad corresponding to each of the four spaces. And then F15 (above Page Up) is the "show spaces" button. I then made some apps hooked to "every space", like ichat & itunes. Then I made some apps belong to their own space, like VMWare (4), Server Admin (3). Then I will usually use space one. Once I start doing web work, i'll do that in space 2. Or if I get going in space one, its simple to just swap the spaces with each other. This started working so well, that I added a second row of spaces. So I have 8 total. So the four F keys belong to one space, then Shift-Fkey goes to the four spaces in my second row. I rarely used the second row since I have two monitors anyway, so 8 total monitors worth of 'stuff' is usually enough. But it works really well for me.

BUT expose is a bigger issue than spaces to me. I live through expose. I'm constantly flipping in and out of it. Mission Control doesn't actually SHOW you your windows. It piles them up so you can't see whats in them. It was horrible trying to work with Mission Control. When I finally wen't back to SL and had my real spaces back, I was so happy.
     
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Feb 16, 2012, 11:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
The Gatekeeper feature is actually pretty brilliant and seems to be proactive.
Isn't Gatekeeper exactly the kind of over-protective security that Apple made fun of Microsoft for?
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 12:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Isn't Gatekeeper exactly the kind of over-protective security that Apple made fun of Microsoft for?
Can you turn M$ stuff just off ?

I thought all their "security" stuff was not optional.

-t
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 01:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Can you turn M$ stuff just off ?

I thought all their "security" stuff was not optional.

-t
You can turn the M$ security stuff off, though the setting to do so is quite buried.
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 02:18 AM
 
You know that the F10 style Exposé still works right? I'll be honest, I wish I could turn on Exposé back to the way it was in Snow Leopard (with the exception that I like how Mission Control handles Spaces) but I can live with it as it is. Also on a track pad you can actually fan out your mission control Windows. I think the problem is that they hobbled it for people who aren't using track pads.
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 03:33 AM
 
You can have application windows style expose, but not the expose that spread out all windows in the current space. That's what I need. And you are right about trackpads. Lion is bearable (but slow and awkward) on my MacBook Pro. It's on my desktop with a mouse, that it was unbearable.
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 03:40 AM
 
No sign of any 'pro' options to get old school expose and spaces back.
Also no sign of the return of arrows in the scroll bars. It is extremely hard using Lion with a mouse this way.
It does feel faster, at least. And I like the notification system.
iCal and Address Book HAVE been fixed! They still have their ugly Lion 'skin', but functionally, they are much better! PHEW. On the surface, 10.8 seems to have it's iOS featured integrated in a much more thought out way, rather than 10.7's "just slap them on there" integration.
But this is after only a few minutes of use.

Also I "read" this on a "blog", I'm not "actually" running Mountain Lion
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 04:06 AM
 
You know what would be cool? The ability to publish address book groups like you can calendars in iCal.

Air Play to TV looks sweet, notifications are ok I suppose. I would really be happy enough if Mountain Lion is just an update in the way that Snow Leopard was, ie made an initially buggy OS release into a really awesome OS release.
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 04:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
It took me a long time to get Spaces working with with my work flow but I finally got it working well.
That, in a nutshell, is EXACTLY why it's gone.

It takes SECONDS to get Spaces working well with Mission control. I had a four-Spaces setup before, but it was always clunky and confusing, even after years—window focus and non-modal windows do really bizarre things.

The only issues I have with Mission Control are
1.) no longer seeing each individual window spread out (but app-window Exposé still works in hot corners and via a rather elegant three-finger trackpad down-swipe). I keep my production Spaces clean enough that I can still access every window directly through the new way across apps.
2.) my mixing console will open the correct Space (it's set to open in Space 2), but then the windows will show up in the primary Space. This, however, is a bug in Apple's code, as I'm told by the console's developer.
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 04:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Isn't Gatekeeper exactly the kind of over-protective security that Apple made fun of Microsoft for?
Not at all.

Gatekeeper is about code-signing. That's completely transparent and won't show up AT ALL unless you're installing software from unverified sources. This is a very good idea and the default is a smart one.

The question is whether one-time exceptions can be made ("Always allow this app" or "Allow this app once", etc.)
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 07:52 AM
 
I see Gatekeeper as an extension of the current "This file has been downloaded from the Internet" dialog, except with harsher language. The code signing offers a way to get your file past that warning.

I wonder how they will handle non-program files, though. Lion warns on some silly file types.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 07:57 AM
 
Notifications are really slick. Growl was a good idea, but notifications are really the way that kind of thing should be.
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 08:20 AM
 
Cult of Mac's two-minute overview:

30 New OS X Mountain Lion Features In 2 Minutes - YouTube

AIRPLAY AS A SYSTEM AUDIO OUTPUT!!!

YEAH!
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 08:22 AM
 
Does AirPlay have a delay? It must right? And is it full 30/60fps? What I'm wondering is, will AirPlay work for games? I know from years of Remote Desktop'ing, that the answer is almost certainly no. It will be fun to play with though. I'll have to get an AppleTV now (not to be confused with an Apple TV).
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 08:23 AM
 
Airplay has a considerable delay. It's not usable for latency-free "live" stuff.
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 08:25 AM
 
I can't think of any situations where you'd want to use it as a system sound out then. If you were just playing music, you can play through airtunes from within iTunes. Otherwise, your sounds are generally always going to line up to events or video on your computer screen.
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 08:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Lion's biggest problem is that Apple tried to turn your desktop macintosh into an iPad. This doubling-down on iOS features is freaking me out. It could work, if done properly.
I don't see that as a problem: Apple wants OS X to profit from the recent advances in computing.
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
No sign of any 'pro' options to get old school expose and spaces back.
It seems you're using the moniker »pro« as a way to denote functionality that you'd like to have back.* But I think it's a misnomer. If anything, Mission control is more complex than what it has replaced and deserves to be called »more professional«

I like the idea of Mission Control and I hope Apple fixes some of the issues in 10.8.
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Feb 17, 2012, 08:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
I can't think of any situations where you'd want to use it as a system sound out then. If you were just playing music, you can play through airtunes from within iTunes. Otherwise, your sounds are generally always going to line up to events or video on your computer screen.
Previewing Logic mixes to the kitchen or lounge stereos is one.

Also, there are still (unfortunately) a number of non-iTunesable radio streams on the web.

I also spend some time on SoundCloud.
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 08:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
AIRPLAY AS A SYSTEM AUDIO OUTPUT!!!
Awesome! That makes my Airport Express base station that much more useful!
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Feb 17, 2012, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
I can't think of any situations where you'd want to use it as a system sound out then. If you were just playing music, you can play through airtunes from within iTunes. Otherwise, your sounds are generally always going to line up to events or video on your computer screen.
Tons of uses. Just a few examples:

Listening to audio-streaming websites, online podcasts or Youtube videos where you're only interested in the audio portion.

-t
     
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Feb 17, 2012, 02:49 PM
 
I'd say Mountain Lion is running way better than Lion was for it's first dev preview. I haven't run into anything that I'd even call a bug yet.
     
 
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