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Windows 8 vs. Mountain Lion (Page 2)
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Clinically Insane
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Feb 18, 2013, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
This is what MS has done. They converged Windows Phone 8 with Windows. Granted, the phone version has differences with no point and click layers... but they are virtually one and the same, from the homescreen being tiles, to the core Apps like Mail, News, weather, and others that are all designed for multi-touch.

It's a strength and a weakness.

I really don't know where OS X goes from here... but it needs a total upgrade. Aqua is 12 years old and the Finder is about 30 years old.

But I'm not suggesting that Apple do with MS did. Microsoft went whole hog and consolidated everything, including the GUI itself. I'm simply talking about consolidating development teams and a certain percentage of the codebase.

If this is already the case, great, but my sense has been that this isn't so and that OS X and iOS are separate development efforts with some borrowing and sharing between the two projects, but ports/re-adaptation beyond GUI controls required to bring iOS stuff to Mountain Lion and vice versa.
     
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Feb 18, 2013, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
MS made one operating system because they're the market leader on the desktop and would like to extend this, not because it makes particularly good sense.
Exactly.

Microsoft has absolutely ZERO relevance to what is shaping up to be the biggest future computing market.

The "best of both worlds" Windows 8 is a panicked, desperate compromise intended to leverage their dominance on the desktop market into relevance on the touch-based mobile computing market.
     
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Feb 18, 2013, 05:56 PM
 
I really like what MS did with Windows 8 but I still prefer OSX. I agree that OSX has become less focussed and isn't as smooth running/bulletproof as it once was. I have found numerous bugs in 10.7.5 that I'm sure will never be fixed as Apple seems to be more interested on the next big thing.
"Like a midget at a urinal, I was going to have to stay on my toes." Frank Drebin, Naked Gun 33 1/3: The Final Insult
     
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Feb 18, 2013, 07:19 PM
 
10.8 really is a lot better. I'm a little worried though, as you are, that the tightened release schedule may mean that bugs are no longer as rigorously squashed in previous releases.
     
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Feb 18, 2013, 09:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
MS made one operating system because they're the market leader on the desktop and would like to extend this, not because it makes particularly good sense. If Apple were to "unify" their OSes, one way to do that would be to let the run the same software. You can do that already, in a way - the iOS simulator on the Mac. That's about how well it would work.
Actually, MS executed on Sinofsky's and a few others' vision of having a unified ecosystem of software and devices. The thing is, they actually succeeded very well at this, where others have failed. When I'm on the Sony Tap 20, I feel like I'm literally on my Windows smartphone and Surface... yet it's a desktop PC. The seemless experience between the two is excellent. With Apple, iOS and OS X don't feel seemless. Here's some examples. The notes App looks ridiculous in OS X: it doesn't match other applications and the overall look and feel of OS X. Same with Reminders... it's so bloody not OS X or like any other App in OS X. It's just a copy of what's on the phone/iPad. Same with the Calendar App (now it's Calendar and not iCal?), and same with the Contacts App (jesus I hate that thing). These are all core Apps that look totally out of place floating inside a desktop operating system. With Windows 8, the seemless feeling you have between the desktop, tablet, and PC is second to none. It's actually really refreshing.

I still love Apple and they do a lot right and MS does do some things wrong, but Apple really needs to step it up and do a major overhaul of how they're looking at this because the way it is, they're just throwing bits and pieces at OS X from iOS. It's like taking pieces of meat out of spaghetti sauce and throwing it at the wall. They need to cement in a much larger vision and then execute on that. Because the way it is, they're losing the plot. I'm finding OS X and iOS... to be sort of complicated and weird. Syncing? What a nightmare. Still! I still can't tell you want wifi syncing does with iTunes, and iTunes sync is bloody ugly.

iCloud, Reminders... all that stuff... I find the entry points and userflows to be a times dizzying since OS X and iOS are really two totally different things.
     
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Feb 19, 2013, 10:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Actually, MS executed on Sinofsky's and a few others' vision of having a unified ecosystem of software and devices. The thing is, they actually succeeded very well at this, where others have failed.
I get what they're trying to do - and it should be noted that Apple deliberately broke with the desktop partially because they were losing there - but I don't agree that they have succeeded in the general, and the reviews bear this out. Office on WART is the best example of this.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
When I'm on the Sony Tap 20, I feel like I'm literally on my Windows smartphone and Surface... yet it's a desktop PC. The seemless experience between the two is excellent.
Making a desktop behave like a tablet isn't the hard thing - as mentioned, there is the simulator that anyone can use to try it. What is missing from the Mac is the hardware to make it work. Since all Macs have cameras and microphones and the laptops have had accelerometers for years now, the one thing missing is the touch screen. We've had touch screens for decades, and people are putting touch screens in $100 tablets and quite decent screens in $150 models. It wouldn't break the bank to put one of these in an MBP or even an iMac. I'm sure Apple tried it out, and for some reason elected not to do it. Maybe it really was the ergonomic thing.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
With Apple, iOS and OS X don't feel seemless. Here's some examples. The notes App looks ridiculous in OS X: it doesn't match other applications and the overall look and feel of OS X. Same with Reminders... it's so bloody not OS X or like any other App in OS X. It's just a copy of what's on the phone/iPad. Same with the Calendar App (now it's Calendar and not iCal?), and same with the Contacts App (jesus I hate that thing). These are all core Apps that look totally out of place floating inside a desktop operating system. With Windows 8, the seemless feeling you have between the desktop, tablet, and PC is second to none. It's actually really refreshing.
You're right that it's not seamless. My point is that I hope they never make it seamless, because making it seamless would mean making the Mac into a big iPad, and that's the last thing I want. I don't want them to hide the filesystem. I don't want them to simplify all the apps. I don't want them to restrict what I can install. They have moved all of these things a step or two in the iOS direction, and I really hope they don't move them further. I don't need a big iPad on my desk - I have a small iPad, and if I want to use the iPad, I do that.

And no, they won't be making the iPad more like the Mac. Much as I like the Mac, it lost the desktop wars and the iPad is winning.

Address book and Calendar are two of the most hated applications on Lion, and it is generally assumed that they will be getting a real makeover now that Ive is in charge. It is an attempt to put iOS applications on the Mac, and that's why it looks so out of place. The solution will likely be to make them LESS iOS-like and more fitting with the Mac.

Notification Center is really just Apple's implementation of Growl (actually there were rumors about this since long before the iPad). As an idea, I like it. Growl was better (and I still use it), but it's not a negative by any means.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I still love Apple and they do a lot right and MS does do some things wrong, but Apple really needs to step it up and do a major overhaul of how they're looking at this because the way it is, they're just throwing bits and pieces at OS X from iOS. It's like taking pieces of meat out of spaghetti sauce and throwing it at the wall. They need to cement in a much larger vision and then execute on that. Because the way it is, they're losing the plot. I'm finding OS X and iOS... to be sort of complicated and weird. Syncing? What a nightmare. Still! I still can't tell you want wifi syncing does with iTunes, and iTunes sync is bloody ugly.

iCloud, Reminders... all that stuff... I find the entry points and userflows to be a times dizzying since OS X and iOS are really two totally different things.
This I can agree with. The idea that Apple should pick entire concepts from iOS was flawed from the start. iCloud is a good idea, but I think that they made a mistake in completely banning regular file access as that removes the "bridge" to get people to use it. Syncing never worked well, and the answer to that is to stop syncing directly with the Mac. I have never synced my new iPad with my Mac - initially because I wanted to see how well it would work. Files I want to move I email to myself - inelegant, but it works - if I can't share them from iTunes. The problem is bigger files. I have Dropbox for that, but it's slow.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 19, 2013, 11:44 AM
 
I haven't seen this yet in this discussion, so I'll bring it up now - a huge advancement in Windows 8 is the fact that Metro is a platform-agnostic framework for application development.

Rather than developing two different applications for two different architectures, you can make a single application, and it will run on ARM or x86/x64 CPUs. The interface will be the same between both. You can seamlessly go between the two without missing a beat.

The benefit of still having the traditional desktop computer comes when you need to run legacy applications that won't run on an ARM CPU.

Microsoft isn't irrelevant at all. They're the first ones to take a step toward actually unifying hardware and software on a single platform. And, if they can make it compelling for businesses with things like deep, solid Active Directory and SharePoint and Office integration, Apple's going to be looking at some hard competition.
     
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Feb 19, 2013, 01:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Rather than developing two different applications for two different architectures, you can make a single application, and it will run on ARM or x86/x64 CPUs. The interface will be the same between both. You can seamlessly go between the two without missing a beat.
If you ignore the interface, simply having software compiled for two different hardware architectures is neither new nor revolutionary, nor particularly elegant.

Apple has done such a parallel development and transition twice in its history. The PPC—>Intel transition was particularly painless, with 10.4 and 10.5 both compiled for both platforms.

The underlying hardware really isn't the crux here — as long as it's fast enough, it's completely irrelevant to the user whether it's Atom/i7/Xeon/ARM/whatever.

The point is having a multi-touch pointer-less future, and getting there from a single-point-of-manipulation pointer-based past. Microsoft has opted for maintaining both, with no clear indication of this being a transition—because they have no choice. The only leverage they have in the mobile market (apart from their reputation) is legacy applications.

That doesn't mean that this necessary business decision is a good decision for the interface, or for the user (as P mentioned above).
     
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Feb 19, 2013, 02:32 PM
 
I disagree.

Particularly because Microsoft already has the enterprise market on the infrastructure side - see my previous post about Active Directory, Sharepoint, and Office.

A mobile device that seamlessly integrates with Microsoft's enterprise products is extremely compelling to the business world, whether or not you believe that to be so. I realize that there are Android and iOS applications that provide some compatibility with technologies like Sharepoint, but Microsoft has the ability to not only provide the applications, but support them from end to end. Businesses like that. A lot.

WRT the PPC to Intel transition, universal binaries still required the developer to compile both x86 and PPC binaries and stick them into a single package. It was very bulky. Notice how much space Monolingual saves when you remove all the binaries your CPU architecture doesn't actually need?

You also can't run a desktop OS X app on an iOS device. Metro, on the other hand, provides a framework for developing software, compiling it once, and knowing that it will work on a Win8 desktop and a Win8 RT tablet.

ETA: Also see this post. Microsoft isn't the only ones seeing the value in a truly unified phone/tablet/desktop OS. The only question is, if and when Apple does the same, will your reaction be as negative?
     
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Feb 19, 2013, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I disagree.

Particularly because Microsoft already has the enterprise market on the infrastructure side - see my previous post about Active Directory, Sharepoint, and Office.

A mobile device that seamlessly integrates with Microsoft's enterprise products is extremely compelling to the business world, whether or not you believe that to be so. I realize that there are Android and iOS applications that provide some compatibility with technologies like Sharepoint, but Microsoft has the ability to not only provide the applications, but support them from end to end. Businesses like that. A lot.
The problem for MS is the BYOD trend, and while IT departments might like MS, users do not. MS needs to change that. They know that and they're working on it, but they're not there yet - witness how badly Windows Phone 8 is selling.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
WRT the PPC to Intel transition, universal binaries still required the developer to compile both x86 and PPC binaries and stick them into a single package. It was very bulky. Notice how much space Monolingual saves when you remove all the binaries your CPU architecture doesn't actually need?
How else would you make a universal binary? Binary means that you have code compiled into instructions for a single ISA. To support more than one ISA, you have to add more than one set of compiled code. When compiling for that on the Mac, you check one more box and let it work. The alternative to universal binaries is to run it in some sort of virtual machine, like Java. That's possible, but it is slower. It doesn't really add a lot more to the storage requirements - Monolingual (which is a very dangerous program, btw) mainly saves space by deleting the .nib files for extraneous languages.

Consider this. When developing Snow Leopard, one of the main focuses for Apple was to reduce the space on the drive to be able to use small SSDs on the Macbook Airs. They managed to save 7 GB, mostly through implementing compression in the filesystem. At the same time, the PPC compatibility package Rosetta was removed and made an optional download. This download was 3.8 MB. Not GB, MB. This means that either:

a) This package included only the Rosetta cross compiler
b) This package included both Rosetta and the required PPC versions of the libraries

In case it was a, Apple included all the PPC libraries in the default install - twice, even as there was both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of each library. This means that the space saved by removing them would have too small to bother with.

In case it was b, well, then the entire set of libraries fit inside 3.8 MB.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
You also can't run a desktop OS X app on an iOS device. Metro, on the other hand, provides a framework for developing software, compiling it once, and knowing that it will work on a Win8 desktop and a Win8 RT tablet.
But that doesn't make sense. You can't make a desktop app run on a mobile device, because you can't make your fingers hit the tiny targets that the mouse pointer can - witness the abysmal reviews for Office on WART. You can run a touch-based app on a desktop, but why would you want to? Should this somehow become a requested feature down the line, Apple only needs to release the simulator on Mac, but there is currently absolutely no requests for this. It would be great if one could somehow run the huge software library for Windows desktop on a tablet, but that's not possible.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 19, 2013, 04:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I haven't seen this yet in this discussion, so I'll bring it up now - a huge advancement in Windows 8 is the fact that Metro is a platform-agnostic framework for application development.

Rather than developing two different applications for two different architectures, you can make a single application, and it will run on ARM or x86/x64 CPUs. The interface will be the same between both. You can seamlessly go between the two without missing a beat.
This was indeed a major advance when it was added to Windows - in Windows NT 3.1, in 1993. Windows has kept supporting multiple ISA since, if you include that it supports 32-bit and 64-bit versions of x86. This is not news and not a big deal.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Microsoft isn't irrelevant at all. They're the first ones to take a step toward actually unifying hardware and software on a single platform. And, if they can make it compelling for businesses with things like deep, solid Active Directory and SharePoint and Office integration, Apple's going to be looking at some hard competition.
They have tried this before - ever since the first Windows CE. The trouble is that interest for this unification has been limited, to say the least.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 19, 2013, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
But that doesn't make sense. You can't make a desktop app run on a mobile device, because you can't make your fingers hit the tiny targets that the mouse pointer can - witness the abysmal reviews for Office on WART. You can run a touch-based app on a desktop, but why would you want to? Should this somehow become a requested feature down the line, Apple only needs to release the simulator on Mac, but there is currently absolutely no requests for this. It would be great if one could somehow run the huge software library for Windows desktop on a tablet, but that's not possible.
That's the issue:

If you've tried using a Mac through VNC on an iPad, it becomes quite clear that being able to RUN an OS X app on the multi-touch interface doesn't necessarily mean that you are able to USE it.
     
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Feb 19, 2013, 06:50 PM
 
While Microsoft may have an advantage with Metro apps working in desktop or device it absolutely sucks on a desktop. Once MS provides Start8-like functionality, Windows 8 will be really good. I have Start8 and actually like Windows 8 a lot...not so much before Start8 though.
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Feb 20, 2013, 01:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I haven't seen this yet in this discussion, so I'll bring it up now - a huge advancement in Windows 8 is the fact that Metro is a platform-agnostic framework for application development.

Rather than developing two different applications for two different architectures, you can make a single application, and it will run on ARM or x86/x64 CPUs. The interface will be the same between both. You can seamlessly go between the two without missing a beat.

The benefit of still having the traditional desktop computer comes when you need to run legacy applications that won't run on an ARM CPU.

Microsoft isn't irrelevant at all. They're the first ones to take a step toward actually unifying hardware and software on a single platform. And, if they can make it compelling for businesses with things like deep, solid Active Directory and SharePoint and Office integration, Apple's going to be looking at some hard competition.
Bingo. You nailed it.

You know how successful they are from my perception? I'm a total Apple guy and have been for years... but I'm actually moving to hire a Windows team to make a Windows version of our main OS X App!

Windows 8 has inspired me that much. Funny thing is, I'm not a Windows user, but it's inspired me and there are lots of users out there. From a developer standpoint, it's exciting to have such a platform that is... literally... device agnostic. We had a board meeting today and I was pitching doing this. Had a teleconference with a Windows dev team, etc. It's likely happening.

I'm excited to dive into the user interface design and work to create something that'll work on both a touch tablet and for a desktop with a mouse.
     
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Feb 21, 2013, 05:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Since when are you an authority and forum policeman? Since when is anyone required to post a "counter-argument"? And why do you think people have to argue on this forum? Seems incredibly negative and borderline delusional.
It is in the rules, actually - take your bickering to PM. I wasn't here when this all blew up (it was 2 AM for me) and I'm not sure that this can be salvaged, but t was an interesting discussion at one point, so I'll give it a try: The entire derail is deleted. Please get back on topic.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 21, 2013, 11:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
It is in the rules, actually - take your bickering to PM. I wasn't here when this all blew up (it was 2 AM for me) and I'm not sure that this can be salvaged, but t was an interesting discussion at one point, so I'll give it a try: The entire derail is deleted. Please get back on topic.
I'm tired of people like Spheric operating with impunity. It's what makes this place sometimes unappealing and uninspiring. If you go to the beginning of this thread, this is one of the first things he posted:

I don't use LaunchPad either. But the Notifications sidebar is occasionally useful, the notifications themselves are essential, and Mission Control is completely integral to how I use the computer.

I just find it amusing that Apple obviously felt the same way freudling did, and changed things accordingly. Except they appear to have been the wrong things.

Ah well, there's no pleasing (everybody) freudling.
He takes shots at people, personal attacks, calls me a donkey. It's just so absurd. Somebody can't post their opinions about an Apple product without emotional, unsophisticated posts in retaliation based on some belief that Apple can do no wrong and that the person who holds the opinion against Apple is the only person in the world who thinks that. And that they stand alone and because of this their position is invalid. Or, the person doing this kind of arguing is just doing it for the sake of arguing. That they have no interest other than to argue. This is what is referred to as trolling.

Reality shows that many other posts online corroborate said opinion and that the original poster simply does not stand alone. This is thus what defines the delusional thinking that surrounds Apple and it's what is referred to as Apple fanboyism. Straw men abound.

Reality: I don't care whether the entire world uses LaunchPad. I don't care whether people find notification center essential to their daily life. I find both of these things utterly useless and a waste of time to the point where I have shut them down via Terminal. And other people have to. I do not stand alone in my opinion of this. If you love these things, great. I will not post some emotional response making you look like you are the only one in the world who likes them. Just don't attack others for thinking something different about them.

And sliding into a more academic context, I've stated what objective people would surely take as valid criticisms against these things. For instance, I don't need to be notified of every single Email that comes in. And I actually only want to know if it's really important... Notification Center is too limited to do this and I find it distracting, dumb, and a productivity killer. I'm not alone.

Back on topic, I am so close to buying a damn Surface because I like Windows 8! I just hate any of the traditional Windows applications. Lots of version 8 juicy ones though!
     
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Feb 21, 2013, 11:48 PM
 
Interesting:

The response has been mixed: some critics guardedly welcomed Windows 8, praising its gorgeous graphic design and daring indifference to Microsoft’s past; still others were baffled by the attempt to impose a single user experience onto all types of computers (see our own review, “Windows 8: Design over Usability,” by Simson Garfinkel). Jason Pontin, MIT Technology Review‘seditor in chief, spoke to Microsoft’s chief executive, Steve Ballmer, about the new operating system and the future of his company.

MIT Review: Seeing the same graphical user interface across platforms is a wondrous thing, but it’s also a little like seeing a bear on a bike. Why do it at all?

Ballsmer: For the first time, Windows PCs, tablets, and phones, as well as Xbox, all share the same look and feel and iconic live tiles. A common visual language makes a lot of sense and helps unify the experiences people have across the devices and services they use daily. Increasingly, people access the same content and services from multiple devices or use more than one device at a time. SmartGlass is really magical in this way. You can cue a movie from your Windows tablet to play on the TV connected to your Xbox, or navigate the Web on the TV screen with your Windows Phone. The same look and feel shortens the learning curve and creates a more seamless user experience. Beyond just sharing the same look, more and more we’re sharing technology across all Windows devices and Xbox. They all connect to SkyDrive—our cloud storage solution—and IE, and for the first time, Windows Phone now shares the same core as Windows PCs and tablets. We see incredible benefits for our customers and developers with this approach.
     
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Feb 22, 2013, 04:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I'm tired of people like Spheric operating with impunity.
You are not the forum police, freudling. We have already deleted your spat with Spheric to bring the discussion back on track, and we'll keep an eye on both of you. So please do your part and stick to the topic at hand.
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Feb 22, 2013, 05:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
You are not the forum police, freudling. We have already deleted your spat with Spheric to bring the discussion back on track, and we'll keep an eye on both of you. So please do your part and stick to the topic at hand.
I don't need yet another Mod coming in here with redundant posts. P has already taken care of it and he's done a good job. The post directly above yours is on track. Your post offers nothing new here and doesn't erase the facts.
     
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Feb 28, 2013, 04:17 AM
 
I couldn't find whoever said it here but... I too am frustrated with how iCloud is the default save location when I save a Pages or Numbers document for the first time. I hate it. I have to click a new location everytime.

Apple, I don't need your stinking iCloud for my spreadsheet and word processing docs! What problem is it really solving? No, I don't use my iPad really at all to do spreadsheet and word processing stuff, and I bet most people don't, with the exception of nerd hipsters sitting in cafes with portable iPad keyboards.
     
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Feb 28, 2013, 06:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I couldn't find whoever said it here but... I too am frustrated with how iCloud is the default save location when I save a Pages or Numbers document for the first time. I hate it. I have to click a new location everytime.

Apple, I don't need your stinking iCloud for my spreadsheet and word processing docs! What problem is it really solving? No, I don't use my iPad really at all to do spreadsheet and word processing stuff, and I bet most people don't, with the exception of nerd hipsters sitting in cafes with portable iPad keyboards.

You don't sound like a good match for Apple products. Apple is more inclined to make assumptions about what default options should be, and that in particular cases this simplicity is preferable to provide an option that might confuse many users. You crave customization, Apple products have never been a mecca of customization and personalization.

I also crave the customization at times, but I use a Mac because my business is in a Unix based environment, I would rather build stuff than have to fuss with fixing my Linux desktop from time to time, and I'm pretty deeply entrenched in an application centric, rather than a document centric way of working anyway. It sounds like we might be in a similar boat, although perhaps my Unixey ways are probably geekier than how you do stuff.
( Last edited by besson3c; Feb 28, 2013 at 06:44 AM. )
     
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Feb 28, 2013, 08:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I couldn't find whoever said it here but... I too am frustrated with how iCloud is the default save location when I save a Pages or Numbers document for the first time. I hate it. I have to click a new location everytime.

Apple, I don't need your stinking iCloud for my spreadsheet and word processing docs! What problem is it really solving? No, I don't use my iPad really at all to do spreadsheet and word processing stuff, and I bet most people don't, with the exception of nerd hipsters sitting in cafes with portable iPad keyboards.
Have you tried searching these forums? They used to be mostly for tech support, you know…

http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...oud-annoyance/

Originally Posted by banjo1234 View Post
Try:

1. Quit all of your open applications
2. Open Terminal on your machine (inside Applications/Utilities)
3. Paste the following and hit return:

defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSDocumentSaveNewDocumentsToCloud -bool false

4. Launch Text Edit or Pages and try to save a document.
     
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Mar 1, 2013, 10:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Have you tried searching these forums? They used to be mostly for tech support, you know…

http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...oud-annoyance/
This is irrelevant. This is a discussion of OS X vs. Windows 8, not a solutions thread. Being able to use Terminal to eliminate a feature doesn't matter. I have already done that by the way.

The point is that there are several annoying things about OS X and it's sad that there is. I'm looking to Apple to accurately predict user needs. Skydrive is a tad more interesting to me compared to iCloud.
     
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Mar 1, 2013, 11:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
This is irrelevant. This is a discussion of OS X vs. Windows 8, not a solutions thread. Being able to use Terminal to eliminate a feature doesn't matter. I have already done that by the way.
I appreciate your gratefulness. You're most welcome.

I responded to what I perceived as a complaint in a matter appropriate to somebody interested in fixing the cause of the complaint. Your phrasing (as quoted in my post above) certainly did not lead me to believe that you had already fixed the problem.

Glad to have tried to help you.

I won't let it happen again.

jackass.
     
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Mar 1, 2013, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I appreciate your gratefulness. You're most welcome.

I responded to what I perceived as a complaint in a matter appropriate to somebody interested in fixing the cause of the complaint. Your phrasing (as quoted in my post above) certainly did not lead me to believe that you had already fixed the problem.

Glad to have tried to help you.

I won't let it happen again.

jackass.
Spheric, I mean this in the nicest, most respectful way. Would you consider yourself as an Apple Fanboy? Or that you just like to argue with people? Or does the answer lie somewhere in between?

I ask this because I'm trying to understand your motives behind some of your posts. I'm not saying all of your posts have these things implicit in them, but several do from my perspective.
     
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Mar 1, 2013, 02:45 PM
 
I don't see how that question is relevant to the fact that I suggested a solution to your issue.

FWIW, I buy Apple's stuff because it has consistently proven to be in tune with how I work, and has proven to be less annoying than the alternatives.

My last work machine lasted 4.5 years before I saw the need to replace it. I run two Airport Expresses at home because my main router kept conking out and it was pissing me off. I have an ancient 160 GB iPod classic that I was given, years ago. And a 2006 iMac that I got for the price of a decent meal, as my living room tv. I have an iPhone and will continue to buy iPhones unless Apple does something really incredible to piss me off, because my experience with replacing them under warranty and when switching to a new one has been beyond comfortable, and I see no reason to risk anything being aggravating, especially if it costs my money and time.

Apart from that, I do believe I understand a lot of Apple's decisions, even if they occasionally ****ing piss me off. I had to upgrade Logic from v8 to v9 just to get rid of a bunch of bugs. It ended up being well worth it, 'cuz 9 is a lot better than 8. Still. I gladly switched to Mountain Lion, but it annoyed me that it was necessary to fix some of the weirdness of lion. And when I switched (after checking all software for compatibility, I was ****ing FURIOUS that Apple had – AGAIN – ****ed up FireWire audio, and I had to wait for a workaround-update from the Metric Halo guys (who've fixed Apple's botched FireWire code in previous OS versions, too) to be able to use Mountain Lion in the studio without constant crackling.

Am I a fanboy because I don't spend my time on an Internet forum ranting about it, and then whining when people disagree, and trying to play forum police and keep them from saying stuff in my threads that I don't want to hear? I searched for my issues, found that others were having them too, and watched those threads and my mailing lists for workaround an solutions.

Incidentally: anybody have a solution for getting iMovie to stop crashing every two minutes on virtually every project? I have some fairly important promo stuff to edit, and no budget to splurge on FCPX, and it's driving me ****ING BATSHIT. I haven't found anything that works so far.
     
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Mar 1, 2013, 06:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Am I a fanboy because I don't spend my time on an Internet forum ranting about it, and then whining when people disagree, and trying to play forum police and keep them from saying stuff in my threads that I don't want to hear? I searched for my issues, found that others were having them too, and watched those threads and my mailing lists for workaround an solutions.
You always have to take shots at people, like this. You engage in "trollish" behaviour a lot.

You actually DO spend a considerable amount of time on Internet forums ranting about Apple. When anyone is critical of Apple, you're one of those consistent posters who vehemently disagrees, attacks, and literally ridicules people for being critical of Apple.

What you're doing here is missing the point. We're having a discussion not about solutions per sey... that is, not about things you can do in Terminal to "fix" whatever is wrong with OS X for Y user. That's actually no solution at all by the way... having to use Terminal to turn off a feature.

The point here is to discuss Apple's design and development of its products, and whether they're making good decisions with the features they ship with regarding OS X. How it compares to Windows 8.

Anyone can root, say, Android, and start turning things on and off, shaping the operating system for their linking.

This is not "It just works"...

I've offered valid criticisms regarding features that are new in Mountain Lion. For instance, being notified of every damn Email that comes in without any other real options. This is very dumb from a usability standpoint and I expect better than that. As it is, I've used Terminal to turn off several features in Mountain like this. And I'm not alone. And it's because of this that's I'm actually attracted to Windows 8 because it is, in some respects, friendly and full of interesting features out of the box.

In other words, for me, OS X has been failing at innovating in areas that I feel are vital for the evolution of an OS and MS has offered something interesting to the point that I'm looking at using it alongside my Apple stuff.

I haven't felt this way since Windows 95.
     
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Mar 1, 2013, 07:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I've offered valid criticisms regarding features that are new in Mountain Lion. For instance, being notified of every damn Email that comes in without any other real options. This is very dumb from a usability standpoint and I expect better than that.
Which, incidentally, is why Apple lets you change this behavior in Mail's General preferences.

I understand your point regarding defaults that aren't to your liking. It's just not a point I'm particularly interested in arguing.

Since you insist, I'll say this:

Apple builds computers and devices and software for the rest of us. Their motivation is to strike a compromise that is the most secure, most appealing, and least annoying for the greatest number of people.
Generally, that means the less advanced users. Most more advanced users have very few issues with searching out the relevant options and changing them to better suit their needs. You don't read from those people because the problem has been solved.

I appreciate that the Library folder is hidden. I think it's a good idea. If you think that believing this and NOT harping on about how I actually went and made the relevant subfolders more readily accessible makes me a fanboy, then I'll have your head on a pike for bitching in present tense about an issue you'd already fixed (and then found it necessary to rip into me for making the effort to suggest a fix).

As for the rest of your post (about me), I tend to post when I see something I disagree with. I could do the back-patting "me too" stuff, or chime in when people bitch about issues I'm having myself, but frankly, that's boring, and it serves no purpose. I do post when somebody manages to fix an issue that I've been having, and I try to help others (generally assuming that people who bitch about problems actually WANT help).

I also don't generally complain about stuff that has been fixed, or that I've managed to fix.
     
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Mar 1, 2013, 08:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I couldn't find whoever said it here but... I too am frustrated with how iCloud is the default save location when I save a Pages or Numbers document for the first time. I hate it. I have to click a new location everytime.

Apple, I don't need your stinking iCloud for my spreadsheet and word processing docs! What problem is it really solving? No, I don't use my iPad really at all to do spreadsheet and word processing stuff, and I bet most people don't, with the exception of nerd hipsters sitting in cafes with portable iPad keyboards.
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
This is irrelevant. This is a discussion of OS X vs. Windows 8, not a solutions thread. Being able to use Terminal to eliminate a feature doesn't matter. I have already done that by the way.
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
If you think that believing this and NOT harping on about how I actually went and made the relevant subfolders more readily accessible makes me a fanboy, then I'll have your head on a pike for bitching in present tense about an issue you'd already fixed (and then found it necessary to rip into me for making the effort to suggest a fix).

I also don't generally complain about stuff that has been fixed, or that I've managed to fix.
freudling: you either did exactly what Spheric Harlot said and complained about an issue you had already fixed with one Terminal command, or Spheric Harlot actually made you aware of a simple fix for your complaint and instead of thanking and moving on, you lied about already having done it and tried to brush it under the rug.

Either way, it is pretty easy to see why either of those two things would rub someone the wrong way, regardless of brand allegiance. If you cannot see that, then so be it.
     
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Mar 1, 2013, 09:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by abbaZaba View Post
freudling: you either did exactly what Spheric Harlot said and complained about an issue you had already fixed with one Terminal command, or Spheric Harlot actually made you aware of a simple fix for your complaint and instead of thanking and moving on, you lied about already having done it and tried to brush it under the rug.

Either way, it is pretty easy to see why either of those two things would rub someone the wrong way, regardless of brand allegiance. If you cannot see that, then so be it.
Hey abba zaba dabba... you too miss the point.

Terminal fixes are IRRELEVANT. The point of this discussion is the actual usability and featureset of two competing pieces of software, Windows 8 and Mac OS X Mountain Lion. Period.

And my point in this thread is that I find aspects of Windows 8 more appealing and better than OS X. This thread is about Windows 8 vs. OS X. Not Terminal fixes.

And this is doubly an important topic for business people and developers who are considering what platform to throw development dollars into.

Average users don't use Terminal... and because of that, nobody cares about it. It's about consumers and the ease of use and appeal of your software, of your platform.

As for me and Terminal, I've actually gone in there and turned several things off in Mountain Lion, so go call yourself a liar or whatever else. There are many sites that tell you how to do these things because other people apparently find the features in question as useless and annoying as I do.

The actual solution, from my perspective, is that Apple (and MS mind you) revamp their respective OSes both in function and usability... and how it relates and works with iOS. Terminal will not fix this.

My thoughts on this are that the reinvention of the desktop OS should be driven by smart agents, smart software that anticipates the user's needs. That is really exciting to me. Not having to seek out sites to find instructions on how to use Terminal to turn off something that I find useless. And not where consumers who don't even know how to use Terminal don't like aspects of what you've decided are good for the user.
     
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Mar 1, 2013, 09:27 PM
 
Spheric, I don't mean to make it seem like I'm ganging up on you, but I will say that you seem quick to ridicule people with criticism of Apple in a sort of belittling way. I'm not saying you have to do the equivalency thing and rag on Apple as much as you defend them, but if you can figure out a way to not convey the sense that Apple criticism is a personal affront to you, that might help change our perceptions of you. I say "our" because I'm clearly not the only one that feels this way.

That being said, I'm not saying I agree with everything freudling is saying, just trying to be constructive.

Freudling, to you I repeat what I wrote to you before:

You don't sound like a good match for Apple products. Apple is more inclined to make assumptions about what default options should be, and that in particular cases this simplicity is preferable to provide an option that might confuse many users. You crave customization, Apple products have never been a mecca of customization and personalization.

I also crave the customization at times, but I use a Mac because my business is in a Unix based environment, I would rather build stuff than have to fuss with fixing my Linux desktop from time to time, and I'm pretty deeply entrenched in an application centric, rather than a document centric way of working anyway. It sounds like we might be in a similar boat, although perhaps my Unixey ways are probably geekier than how you do stuff.
     
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Mar 2, 2013, 10:26 AM
 
Microsoft's current problem is that they have built a user base where about 90% of users don't like it when they change things. Apple users are used to being told when something "needs" to be changed and they just get on with it because there will always be a certain level of intuitiveness to any changes they make.

By maintaining backwards compatibility to quite extraordinary lengths, failing to replace XP for so long, then making Vista so unbelievably crappy, they have turned their core users off of trying new things or learning new tricks. There are offices full of people who don't really want a new version of Windows, they just want it to work the way it always has from the day they start their job until the day they retire.

While this approach of having a unified OS on desktop and mobile might seem like a good idea, its not what their bread and butter customers want. I also have to assume there is a reason Apple didn't go the same route.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Mar 2, 2013, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
How else would you make a universal binary? Binary means that you have code compiled into instructions for a single ISA. To support more than one ISA, you have to add more than one set of compiled code. When compiling for that on the Mac, you check one more box and let it work. The alternative to universal binaries is to run it in some sort of virtual machine, like Java. That's possible, but it is slower.
MS is taking the virtual machine approach with CIL bytecode; they started laying the groundwork over 10 years ago.
It's fast enough to not care - anything you need faster will be hand written asm for each platform anyway.
     
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Mar 2, 2013, 04:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Spheric, I don't mean to make it seem like I'm ganging up on you, but I will say that you seem quick to ridicule people with criticism of Apple in a sort of belittling way. I'm not saying you have to do the equivalency thing and rag on Apple as much as you defend them, but if you can figure out a way to not convey the sense that Apple criticism is a personal affront to you, that might help change our perceptions of you. I say "our" because I'm clearly not the only one that feels this way.

That being said, I'm not saying I agree with everything freudling is saying, just trying to be constructive.

Freudling, to you I repeat what I wrote to you before:
You make a good point, but wouldn't you agree that, for instance, Notification Center is really "dumb"? Ok, Notification Center allows you to turn the badge App icon off and list as little as the 5 most recent Emails. But not being able to add some filters is terrible for usability? You mean I have to see every single damn Email that comes in in the notification slips on the top right of my screen with zero control?

That is absolutely terrible. I can't see anyone wanting that. Anyone... with any degree of daily Email. How can anyone focus anymore? Get any work done? Email, Twitter, Facebook, blah blah. Lots of irrelevant notifications.

-And do you actually like LaunchPad? An iOS throwback.
-How about Mission Control? I think this latter sucks on my 15" MacBook Pro. Maybe a bit better on a 27" iMac.
-What about all that versioning stuff Apple added in in 10.7 and the Save As debacle? I'm still not sure where we're at with at under Mountain Lion from one application to another.
-Do you think Reminders, Notes, and Contacts are just bizarre in OS X? A complete design failure throwing iOS Apps into OS X and not really doing anything to them? It's like I have iPad Apps floating inside OS X.
     
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Mar 2, 2013, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
You make a good point, but wouldn't you agree that, for instance, Notification Center is really "dumb"? Ok, Notification Center allows you to turn the badge App icon off and list as little as the 5 most recent Emails. But not being able to add some filters is terrible for usability? You mean I have to see every single damn Email that comes in in the notification slips on the top right of my screen with zero control?
Once again, THIS IS A SETTING WITHIN MAIL.
     
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Mar 2, 2013, 06:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Once again, THIS IS A SETTING WITHIN MAIL.

Why are you taking this personally? Why is this making you emotional?
     
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Mar 2, 2013, 06:44 PM
 
You see somebody struggling. You help him, really, you try to help him. With a simple solution. He keeps doing the same stupid thing, completely ignores the solution, and even worse, he KEEPS COMPLAINING ABOUT IT, even though it has been implemented in exactly the way he keeps telling us he wishes it were.

I'm not taking that personally. It's just that willfull stupidity brings out the desperation in me.
     
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Mar 2, 2013, 06:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
You see somebody struggling. You help him, really, you try to help him. With a simple solution. He keeps doing the same stupid thing, completely ignores the solution, and even worse, he KEEPS COMPLAINING ABOUT IT, even though it has been implemented in exactly the way he keeps telling us he wishes it were.

I'm not taking that personally. It's just that willfull stupidity brings out the desperation in me.

But he's not looking for a solution, he's looking to present critique.
     
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Mar 2, 2013, 08:42 PM
 
Getting back to the thread topic, I have tremendous admiration for Microsoft for coming up with Windows 8/RT. It came far later than it should have, and from what I can tell my Windows-using friends HATE IT PASSIONATELY, but I find it a true and refreshing alternative from OS X. Now, in my case, I'm not tired of OS X. But if I were, I would look for something that is *actually different* rather than a poor-boy wanna-be (coughANDROIDcough). So MS gets a lot of props from me for doing something really different from a company where that is excruciatingly difficult (and, incidentally, COULD have taken the "copy Apple" route since they actually have a LICENSE with Apple, ahem ahem).

Sadly, I don't think the Windows base are going to stick with Window 8 long enough to learn it (plus it has some genuine teething issues) and will put pressure on MS to go back to the bad old days. It's very interesting to me to watch MS try to do the same thing Apple did more than a decade ago -- change chips, change schemes, really attempt as much as possible to start over -- and not meet with the success Apple had at that.

We OS X users shouldn't be too smug about MS's troubles, however -- if you think OS X is going to last forever (or even another ten years) you are likely mistaken. There is another upheaval coming for Mac users too, you know ...
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Mar 2, 2013, 10:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by chas_m View Post
Getting back to the thread topic, I have tremendous admiration for Microsoft for coming up with Windows 8/RT. It came far later than it should have, and from what I can tell my Windows-using friends HATE IT PASSIONATELY, but I find it a true and refreshing alternative from OS X. Now, in my case, I'm not tired of OS X. But if I were, I would look for something that is *actually different* rather than a poor-boy wanna-be (coughANDROIDcough). So MS gets a lot of props from me for doing something really different from a company where that is excruciatingly difficult (and, incidentally, COULD have taken the "copy Apple" route since they actually have a LICENSE with Apple, ahem ahem).

Sadly, I don't think the Windows base are going to stick with Window 8 long enough to learn it (plus it has some genuine teething issues) and will put pressure on MS to go back to the bad old days. It's very interesting to me to watch MS try to do the same thing Apple did more than a decade ago -- change chips, change schemes, really attempt as much as possible to start over -- and not meet with the success Apple had at that.

We OS X users shouldn't be too smug about MS's troubles, however -- if you think OS X is going to last forever (or even another ten years) you are likely mistaken. There is another upheaval coming for Mac users too, you know ...

They'll stick with it. They'll either stay with Windows 7 and put up with 8 when they get a new PC, or they'll just suck it up and go with 8 eventually. Users always bitch and moan about stuff changing, I don't think this is enough for a mass exodus.
     
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Mar 2, 2013, 11:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
You see somebody struggling. You help him, really, you try to help him. With a simple solution. He keeps doing the same stupid thing, completely ignores the solution, and even worse, he KEEPS COMPLAINING ABOUT IT, even though it has been implemented in exactly the way he keeps telling us he wishes it were.

I'm not taking that personally. It's just that willfull stupidity brings out the desperation in me.
Post reported.

Mods, do something about this guy. He's constantly taking shots at people. Pretentious and emotional.

Spheric: you have helped no one. You have provided little insight into this topic. There is NO SETTING IN MAIL. What is there is under General and that's New message notifications but doesn't even come close to providing decent filters in a way that would work as I've mentioned with Notification Center. And why mention this now when you were so quick to mention Terminal? Things just don't add up man.

And I, along with many other people online, will KEEP COMPLAINING about Notifcation Center, LaunchPad, the Contacts App, and many other things in Mountain Lion and there's nothing you can do about it, so accept it, and do something else with your time and your life. Rather than to ridicule other posters on here for your own personal, and what appears to be emotionally driven reasons.
( Last edited by freudling; Mar 2, 2013 at 11:34 PM. )
     
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Mar 3, 2013, 07:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
But he's not looking for a solution, he's looking to present critique.
Exactly.

I have very little patience for people whose sole interest is bitching. At the very least, USE EXAMPLES THAT ACTUALLY SUPPORT YOUR POINT, goddammit. Those can be discussed.
If you're going to keep arguing points that don't hold up to even superficial scrutiny, it's not unreasonable to expect derision (just walking away would be the wiser choice, I know. But that ultimately means walking away from a place I've considered a sort of "home" for over a decade. It might be time.).

I'm just picking at the examples that don't support his concerns (which, btw, I do consider valid), but somehow, that means I have it in for him, that I need to be reported, that my points are irrelevant, that blablablablabla.

This post is probably going to get reported for "taking pot-shots at people", or something.

See y'all later.
     
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Mar 3, 2013, 07:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Exactly.

I have very little patience for people whose sole interest is bitching. At the very least, USE EXAMPLES THAT ACTUALLY SUPPORT YOUR POINT, goddammit. Those can be discussed.
If you're going to keep arguing points that don't hold up to even superficial scrutiny, it's not unreasonable to expect derision (just walking away would be the wiser choice, I know. But that ultimately means walking away from a place I've considered a sort of "home" for over a decade. It might be time.).

I'm just picking at the examples that don't support his concerns (which, btw, I do consider valid), but somehow, that means I have it in for him, that I need to be reported, that my points are irrelevant, that blablablablabla.

This post is probably going to get reported for "taking pot-shots at people", or something.

See y'all later.

But they do support his point, I think you are just being a little reactionary. Notification center does not have rules, it's all or nothing. This was clear to me.
     
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Mar 3, 2013, 07:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Spheric: you have helped no one. You have provided little insight into this topic. There is NO SETTING IN MAIL. What is there is under General and that's New message notifications but doesn't even come close to providing decent filters in a way that would work as I've mentioned with Notification Center. And why mention this now when you were so quick to mention Terminal?
I was so quick to mention the Terminal fix for an issue you claimed to be having that could be fixed via Terminal.

I mention the Mail preferences because they are a fix for an issue you claim to be having.
The Mail notification preferences, combined with VIP mailboxes and smart mailboxes (this is the key), are EXTREMELY granular.


Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Things just don't add up man.
Continuing to use examples of things that are already fixed, or easily fixed by advanced users, while there are so many other GOOD examples that you could use, makes no sense.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
And I, along with many other people online, will KEEP COMPLAINING about Notifcation Center, LaunchPad, the Contacts App, and many other things in Mountain Lion and there's nothing you can do about it, so accept it, and do something else with your time and your life.
I have ZERO problems with complaints about actual reality.

Do accept that your complaints do not apply to everyone else, and do accept that you may be complaining about things that have solutions you may not be aware of.
     
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Mar 3, 2013, 07:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
But they do support his point, I think you are just being a little reactionary. Notification center does not have rules, it's all or nothing. This was clear to me.
That is simply flat-out wrong.

His specific example was with MAIL notifications, which do have rules.
They are set in Mail's preferences.

Notification Center just passes along what the app pushes. It's up to the individual APP to tailor what gets sent to Notifications.

We can discuss whether this model (simply providing a channel for apps to tie into) makes sense or not, but continuing to use Mail as an example of what's wrong with Notification Center is simply ridiculous, because Mail is a shining example of how to use the current model CORRECTLY.

Do you understand what I'm saying?
     
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Mar 3, 2013, 07:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
That is simply flat-out wrong.

His specific example was with MAIL notifications, which do have rules.
They are set in Mail's preferences.

Notification Center just passes along what the app pushes. It's up to the individual APP to tailor what gets sent to Notifications.

We can discuss whether this model (simply providing a channel for apps to tie into) makes sense or not, but continuing to use Mail as an example of what's wrong with Notification Center is simply ridiculous, because Mail is a shining example of how to use the current model CORRECTLY.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

So the Mail action "send notification" sends notifications to the notification center? You would disable Mail notifications in System Preferences -> Notifications, and then this rule would override your System Preference setting for particular messages?
     
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Mar 3, 2013, 07:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I was so quick to mention the Terminal fix for an issue you claimed to be having that could be fixed via Terminal.
You might have a case for Mail notifications if what I summarized is correct, but not this.

If you believe that there should be a setting to change the default save location, and I think an argument could be made here, that there isn't a GUI setting is a legitimate critique, and whether or not you can use a command line command to accomplish this does not nullify this criticism.

But all of this is besides the point. The point is that you seem incapable of having a calm and civil discussion without losing your shit. You really need to stop that, it is not healthy behavior for yourself, and your Rob-like intensity is annoying for some of us.

Even if Freudling was flat-out wrong and there were GUI settings he missed, you can point this out politely without this intensity. Just chill the **** out man.
     
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Mar 3, 2013, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
That is simply flat-out wrong.

His specific example was with MAIL notifications, which do have rules.
They are set in Mail's preferences.

Notification Center just passes along what the app pushes. It's up to the individual APP to tailor what gets sent to Notifications.

We can discuss whether this model (simply providing a channel for apps to tie into) makes sense or not, but continuing to use Mail as an example of what's wrong with Notification Center is simply ridiculous, because Mail is a shining example of how to use the current model CORRECTLY.

Do you understand what I'm saying?
No. You are putting up strawmen and we are not biting. You are arguing against yourself.

Your proposition 1:It's up to the individual APP to tailor what gets sent to Notifications.

Result: Notificaion Center does not meet my needs. I find it distracting and limited across all of the Apps it works with, as do others.

NC has its own preferences in System Preferences that allows a user to change the number of notifications to be stored in NC, whether you want a notification displayed as a banner or an Alert, and some attributes thereof. Mail has its own settings, none of which do what I really want. One example: Only show notifications from the top 10% of the most active Emails at any one time. This is not solved by anything you mention. And the changes you can make to notifications in the Mail App is a simple setting allowing you to show notifications for Inbox only, VIPs, Contacts, All Mailboxes, or Smart Mailboxes. The user if faced with having to dig into rules to get anything robust out of Notification Center, and even the rules don't solve a lot of problems: they just make you have to spend hours and hours of work doing them and they're always a moving target.

For Calendar, Messages, and many other Apps, there isn't any even highly abstract settings within those Apps that will help filter alerts in Notification Center, or really do anything for a user: you must rely on Notification Center's limited settings in System Preferences.

There're lots of little things with NC as well like not being able to set snooze times on Calendar appointments, the fact that when you put NC into do-not-disturb is still plays alert sounds, and many more.

Notification Center as I've described it is "dumb" and distracting, and others complain about it too. There are boatloads of threads with people complaining about it, even just about the snooze issue. My proposed approach would have been to look at NC in a way to make it learn from you and more intelligent. For those that like NC, great.

For me, it's NC, it's LaunchPad, it's iOS Apps just thrown into OS X without any regard for consistency of design, it's bloated iTunes, it's all of the stripping away of RSS handling that I'm now using a third party RSS button in Safari, and many more things. That's Mountain Lion and I feel Windows 8 has it beat in several areas, but also has its own problems.

Overall, Mountain Lion just feels like a disjointed mess, where Apple is throwing things at it to make it play nice with iOS yet it's not seamless.

The News App built into Windows 8 for instance is fantastic, meanwhile Apple rips out news handling re: RSS.

When will they really innovate this OS, after 10.9? Because it'll have to jump to 11?
     
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Mar 3, 2013, 02:15 PM
 
How do I remove Notification Center from the menu bar? The garbage pushed to it provides no value to me, and it occupies particularly valuable screen real estate (Fitt's law).
     
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Mar 3, 2013, 02:17 PM
 
What is an active e-mail? How do you determine the activity level of an e-mail?
     
 
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