I attended a mini conference where I was able to talk to an apple engineer. They will be having a major major intensive work session on OS X all next week. (The week of the 26th.) Here is the details I found out.

First of all, he demonstrated build 4k50. This is the first build I've seen demonstrated in person since the public beta. I was MORE than impressed with the speed. Everything was extremely fast, and the only thing lagging was window resizing. It WAS something I could live with though. Anyway. Build 4k50 was dated Feb 7th, and the last build he had heard of was build 4k61, which was a little over a week ago. He belives they might be much higher now, and even into the L's.

First of all, the things that I wasn't sure of, but some of you may be.

-Save as PDF was enabled in every application file menu
-The Go menu is still there, in fact
-If you fill out your iTools information (user and pass) in the one of the tabs in the network panel I believe it was, you can select "Go to idisk" From the Go menu and it automatically takes you there.
-To me it was blurry on how customizable the shelf toolbar on the finder windows was. I wasn't sure if you were limited to what they give you to choose from. Well good news, Your NOT. You can put anything your little heart desires on that toolbar. It's vey very nice.

-Not only if the location manager back, but it's so easy to do you'll be amazed. It's also blazingly fast. When you change your network setup via it, it changes in an instant. No little dialogue box to watch while it processes.

-Managing users is almost completely different than in the beta. In the users control panel (which is now an control panel and not a seperate application) you can create users, and either make them admin or not. You cannot edit groups at all. You basically decide if you want someone to have priveledges or not. If you need more control than this, you dive into the NetInfo Manager. This is where you can begin to control groups, what types of priveledges for what, etc. This nifty little application is powerful, but still WAY confusing. I expect they will polish that one a bit before the Final.

This part may not make complete sense, someone smarter than me can jump in and clarify.

-Darwin is STILL being tweaked. I know, I know it's open source. But what I mean is, they are still putting changes into the Darwin that win run under the final OS X. Some changes reportedly large. This is because the AFS is still working on a bunch of things. Or was it that the AFS is still being worked on and that's a part of Darwin, (Damn I don't remember what AFS stands for.) Anyway, supposedly this is very close to being done.

-Here's a cool tidbit. OS X may become the standard operating system that almost every branch of the government will use. The reason? Security. The DOD and the NSA are currently, as we speak, pouring over every line of code in OS X. Checking to make sure that Apple is in no way putting hooks in there so they could get access to information. The government, especially agencies such as these, really likes to know that absolutely no one can get to their information except for them. They can't know this for sure with Microsoft, because microsoft won't show anyone their code.

-SSH
I know a lot of you are pretty upset about this not being included in the final version of OS X. I know rumors have been floating around as to why. Wanna know?? Someone in apple screwed up big time, and didn't SEND IN FORMS to get clearance in time to use SSH in the final version. (I think I remember him saying the forms were supposed to be sent to the NSA.) Apple really wanted to, and still has their mind set on it. It will be available as a download from apple ASAP. And in the future will be included with OS X. Bet that guy who fouled up got REAMED out.

-The Dock
Ahhhh the dock. I have read more posts on "I can't believe they took out the new dock features such as orientation and pinning" than I can remember. The internal rumor at apple is this: They have most certainely not been ruled out, but they didn't want everyone playing with them before they decided. Currently the UI department is playing with them, and deciding if they are truly useful. I would expect even they could see that they were, and I would expect them to be in the Final Version. Steve would NOT let a huge introduction of OS X go without some things to show off to get BIG oooohs and aaaaaahs about. That's why he wakes up in the morning.

Sorry that's all I have for ya, and I did my best. I sent the engineer back to the team with a page full of all your best suggestions,.

LATAZ

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M. Robert
MultiMedia

Eeeeeeexcellent.

Thanks.

Excellent info, thanks. To anyone at Apple reading this: PLEASE give us an option for vertical dock orientation. In the limited time I played with 4K17 the dock was infinitely more usable on the left side than the bottom; I could leave it visible all the time without sacrificing vertical space, and I didn't have to keep moving the mouse to the bottom of the screen to activate an app, then back to the top to use the app.

It's this kind of posts that makes is worth reading these boards. Unfortunately they are pretty sparse...

Keep up the good work!

-Here's a cool tidbit. OS X may become the standard operating system that almost every branch of the government will use.

No way! You sir, are yanking my chain. Okay kidding aside. Did you all read about the super secure version of Linux the NSA is working on. They patched in a whole bunch of password security stuff that they are experts at. It's a real project and I think I read that they released the source code back out. It's not a finished system at this time, more of a "proof of principle". So I think there is some real interest in a system that they can hack to do it their way. That would just be too slick.

-SSH I know a lot of you are pretty upset about this not being included in the final version of OS X. I know rumors have been floating around as to why. Wanna know?? Someone in apple screwed up big time, and didn't SEND IN FORMS to get clearance in time to use SSH in the final version.

Ah I see. Must be hung up on the # of bits in the encryption. I didn't know you needed a form push thought to ship it. They could include it on the "US" version. But it seems that Apple is shooting for one OS world wide.

maybe the NSA and DOD are pouring over the source code so they *can* hack into it. Don't forget, the business of the NSA is intellgence.

Not that I'm prone to conspiracy theories, but part of the job would be looking for holes in computers with operating systems that they might need to crack. We all know how lax Windows is, source code or no.

Just something to think about.

for all of our sakes, i really hope what srynmr says is true, this is exactly what we all need to get OSX in the big leagues, then M$ will have to deal with OSX

-Here's a cool tidbit. OS X may become the standard operating system that almost every branch of the government will use. The reason? Security. The DOD and the NSA are currently, as we speak, pouring over every line of code in OS X. Checking to make sure that Apple is in no way putting hooks in there so they could get access to information. The government, especially agencies such as these, really likes to know that absolutely no one can get to their information except for them.

Since OSX violates the ADA, there is no way the US government will standarize on OSX. That battle is already won by Microsoft, Sun & Linux (as Scott_H mentioned), Apple will probably lose existing sales because of that oversight. That's not the part that worries me. I have a problem that the DOD and NSA are pouring over the source code to OSX. It sounds like big brother is placing some code in OSX to make their jobs easier. Pouring over the source code to check for secruity leaks doesn't make any sense, a third party device driver (or daemon) can destroy any exisitng security model. I'd be suprised if Apple was foolish enough to give access to thier source code to outside organizations, it seems as if you were given wrong information on this part (or marketing bs).

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respect mah athoritah!

This seems very true, if not just because of this article:
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12879-2001Feb16.html


"Another deal, with Apple Computer Inc., calls for the company to provide a "privacy management solution" for the upcoming Mac OS X operating system" And more....

Since OSX violates the ADA

OS X does not violate the ADA.


[edit to add]

I should explain a bit more. For one thing the OS in a an abstract sense cannot violate the law. BUT if the government agency were to buy into OS X in a big way you would see a flood of third party hardware and software needed for the disabled. Apple could hack in some simple tools into the OS on their own. It's just not a problem.

[This message has been edited by Scott_H (edited 02-23-2001).]

Ok, you're right OSX does not violate the ADA, I should have been more accurate; Because of the ADA and the Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board, Apple cannot sell OSX to any US government agency. Until Apple (not a third party) enhances OSX for this (mainly the ability to operate the OS without a mouse and a bunch of UI stuff), they cannot sell to the US government. It's clearly stated that you cannot use a third party to adhere to compliance (mainly due to support of future OS versions).

If this is a big deal or not, who knows? I guess it all depends on how much value Apple places of government sales (and existing installations). I don't see Apple dumbing down Aqua just to please the US government and I don't see Apple paying any attention to disabled computer users at all.
http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/5...le%20Computers

p.s. it should be noted that this act was originally drafted by Sun Microsystems.

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respect mah athoritah!

Originally posted by iCartman:
Since OSX violates the ADA, there is no way the US government will standarize on OSX. That battle is already won by Microsoft, Sun & Linux (as Scott_H mentioned), Apple will probably lose existing sales because of that oversight. That's not the part that worries me. I have a problem that the DOD and NSA are pouring over the source code to OSX. It sounds like big brother is placing some code in OSX to make their jobs easier. Pouring over the source code to check for secruity leaks doesn't make any sense, a third party device driver (or daemon) can destroy any exisitng security model. I'd be suprised if Apple was foolish enough to give access to thier source code to outside organizations, it seems as if you were given wrong information on this part (or marketing bs).

I'm sorry, but what exactly is the ADA, and how is it that OS X violates it? I'm only telling you exactly what I heard from the apple engineer himself when he was touting the safety of OS X. He also said that Apple is pressing heavily on the 3rd party peripheral vendors to make things such as thumb print scanners, etc. compatible with OS X. I'm sure it had a little bit of a swing on it, but I really doubt this was all BS.

He said that the developer relations department had the first priority of getting all the major applications developers to truly commit to OS X, and a second priority of getting those peripheral makers to start making for OS X, especially in the cool security gadget area.

He also talked about printer drivers.

He said that like a month ago, they invited people from all the major printer companies "Cannon, Epson, Hp, and a few others." and they sat them down for a week, and just wrote printer drivers. They provided aid to them in every way they possibly could. He said that if any printer companies did not have solid drivers ready to go on March 24th, he would be suprised, and it would be completely their (printer company) fault.


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M. Robert
MultiMedia

Doesn't OS X already operate well without a mouse? I mean isn't that the deal with the comand line?? I know that in the public beta you can log in to just terminal.... Isn't that an option?

And isn't it true that I heard the army is using OS X server because of it's security. I heard that probably a little over a year ago. I even heard there were attempts to hack it without success. I may be wrong, qho knows. Apple had to sell that to them right?? I don't know what I'm missing. Excuse my ignorance.

Well I don't really know any more on this, and I don't have insider information other than what this guy said.

I didn't get to stay for the demonstration of the new OS X server, and I wish I could have seeing as how no one really has terribly much information on it. But this was it. The new one. Basically the same as OS X, but with a whole ton of network administration powers and everything. He said it was going to be released either right alongside OS X, or VERY shortly afterwards.

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M. Robert
MultiMedia

Well I read that and I can see how Mac OS X could fit in. There's some things that might have to be changed but I can't see Mac OS X being ruled out by that.

I don't see Apple dumbing down Aqua just to please the US government and I don't see Apple paying any attention to disabled computer users at all.

I'm not trying to be a dick but it seems like this a personal cursade for you. Apple does have access things for disabled persons. I'd bet by this summer when OS X ships on new hardware we'll see more movement there.

He also said that Apple is pressing heavily on the 3rd party peripheral vendors to make things such as thumb print scanners

That device would violate the ADA

For the love of GOD what is the ADA!?

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M. Robert
MultiMedia

American Disability Act (or some such variation)

You have the whole internet at your finger tip and can't find info an what ADA is?

Found via google.
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm

[This message has been edited by Scott_H (edited 02-23-2001).]

There should be a google link at the top of every thread here.

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JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

Originally posted by JB72:
There should be a google link at the top of every thread here.

get Opera 5, my friend: there's a little box beside the URL field that says "<Search with Google here>"

Cool, eh?

R


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"A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a danish."
- Ty Webb, "Caddyshack"

[gorgonzola]

Woah. That's some good stuff. I'm glad the Aqua UI division is thinking about Dock orientation, and I hope they'll make the right choice (customizability, obviously -- more options are better, always).

The printer drivers also seem to be coming along well, that thread with the 4K56 info said that all the drivers the guy tried (admittedly only two ) worked flawlessly.

Apple's developers invited people over for a driver dev party, lol

btw, who are you that Apple is inviting you to see these cutting-edge builds and speak w/ Apple engineers about Mac OS X? just curious.

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the oddball newsletter
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it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

Well I read that and I can see how Mac OS X could fit in. There's some things that might have to be changed but I can't see Mac OS X being ruled out by that.

Exactly, once Apple patches some of the limitations of OSX, then they would have free reign to government sales.

I'm not trying to be a dick but it seems like this a personal cursade for you.

No, it's not a personal crusade. All I did was make one statement and correct you on another, stop over-reacting.

Apple does have access things for disabled persons.

No, AFAIK they stopped doing that a looong time ago. It's only become a problem now because the US government is changing the way it buys computers. Perhaps with the Republicans running things again it will change in Apple's favor.

I'd bet by this summer when OS X ships on new hardware we'll see more movement there.

That's possible, I really have no idea what, if any, resources Apple is devoting to this. It seems to me that they have a bunch of other issues to focus on and don't really have the bandwidth to take care of this problem. If government sales take up a big portion of Apple's revenue, then I feel confident that they will get a patch out ASAP (and for OS9 as well).

For the love of GOD what is the ADA!?

You would think since Apple created Sherlock, we wouldn't have these questions anymore (or at least sort out Windows users from Mac users).

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respect mah athoritah!

You make ADA compliance sound like climbing the Pike's Peak. It's not that hard if you have cooperation.

Originally posted by iCartman:
Since OSX violates the ADA, there is no way the US government will standarize on OSX. . . .

iCartman, I checked the link to the Access Board rules that you posted. I have to disagree with you that Macs violate the rules. If you take a look at the actual rule (toward the bottom of the page; your link was to the agency's comments) you'll see that the requirements are pretty minimal, and really affect only the keyboard and mouse. The rule says nothing about making the _software_ on the computer accessible to a blind or deaf user.

That said, the recent article in Tidbits about the Mac's lack of accessibility for the disabled is accurate. The software that the blind, in particular, need for access is made predominantly for Windows. (At least the blind can't see how ugly the Win GUI is, eh? ) This might pose a problem for the Mac because a disabled federal employee would need a windows machine -- but to my knowledge there is nothing that prevents the feds from using Macs for their _nondisabled_ employees.



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Marienbad
http://www.appassionato.org

I believe AFS stands for "Asynchronous File System"..

its a bit faster, but in case of a crash, some data maybe be lost, since the changes may not have been written to the HD yet.

I *think* thats what it is, i'mm reasonably sure. If I'm wrong, please, somebody correct me.

I'm hoping the AFS he is referring to is the Andrew File System. It's similar to NFS but was developed by IBM (I believe) and is used at a lot of Universities including the one I am attending now

Regarding the ADA; wouldn't voice recognition work? Well, not for the deaf but the blind or visually-challenged and even those lacking limbs/digits/etc that couldn't use a keyboard or mouse.

Originally posted by dtriska:
Regarding the ADA; wouldn't voice recognition work? Well, not for the deaf but the blind or visually-challenged and even those lacking limbs/digits/etc that couldn't use a keyboard or mouse.

That's part of it, but voice recognition software is not enough. The blind need software that can read back to them what is on the screen -- not to mention web pages and the like. Screen reading software apparently is made for windows only.

A lot of the stuff that's in the Access Board rules iCartman mentioned are intended to force government agencies to code web pages so they are accessible to screen reading software, as well as doing simple things like making clickable buttons fairly large so people with moter control problems can find them with the mouse. And of course, providing a text backup for audio files so deaf people aren't left out. The rules try to address a whole host of web design issues. This, at least, is not a problem for Macs specifically.

Gee, I'm definitely off topic now! I'll shut up about ADA issues and try to find something to say about OS X in one of these posts.

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Marienbad
http://www.appassionato.org

Natural voice recognition and voice feedback will be part of OS X.

AFS may also stand for Authentication File System, which was developed by IBM.

Though actually, now that I think of it I'm POSITIVE that it stands for American Fisheries Society. That HAS to be it.

Speakable items and text-to-speech are built in the the OS now. As are sticky keys, CloseView, using the keypad for mousing, etc. This of course is inherent, and aside from the myriad of 3rd party apps. How are they not conformant to the ADA?

Just a quick look on the Apple site yielded:

The Macintosh is the most accessible personal computer available today. This is a well-known fact, especially if you have a disability. The features that make the Macintosh accessible include: an adjustable keyboard, an ergonomic mouse, CloseView screen magnification software, Easy Access system software (StickyKeys, SlowKeys, MouseKeys), electronic documentation, key-repeat disable, text-to-speech synthesis and voice recognition (PlainTalk), sticky mouse, and visual alert cues.

All of these features are included as part of the Macintosh’s system software (System 7.x, 8.x, and 9.x), but if you can’t seem to find your copies, you may download the Easy Access and CloseView utilities from this page. We’ve also added step-by-step instructions to help you install and operate these built-in features.

CloseView (16k), CloseView is a screen enlarger. It magnifies all screen images (including text, graphics, menu bar, and the mouse cursor) up to 16 times the normal size. In addition, CloseView can inverse the Macintosh display (so that text appears white on a black background instead of vice-versa). Naturally, these features are used most often by individuals with visual impairments.

Open CloseView by opening the CloseView Control Panel. Turn it on by clicking on the “on” button. You’ll immediately notice a black rectangle on the screen. The area inside the rectangle will be magnified once the magnification is turned on.

Click on the White-on-Black button. The screen will immediately reverse to white letters on a black background. Sometimes it’s easier for a person with a visual impairment to see white-on-black rather than black-on-white.


Select the degree of magnification by pressing the arrows in the Magnification box. You’ll notice the black rectangle growing and shrinking as you decide which magnification you want.


When you’re ready for the magnification, press the “on” button in the Magnification box. The Macintosh screen will now be magnified. Again, you can use the arrows to change the degree of magnification.

To turn the magnification off, either click on the “off” button in the Magnification window, or press Command-option-X simultaneously. To turn CloseView Off, completely removing the magnification rectangle, click on the main “off” button or press Command-Option-O simultaneously.
Easy Access (9k) is a control panel extension containing a set of keyboard utilities. These utilities assist people who might otherwise have difficulties using the keyboard or the mouse. Included as part of Easy Access are three main features. A fourth feature, Talking Alerts, is also included.
Mouse Keys
Sticky Keys
Slow Keys
Text-to-Speech
Note: Apple recommends that you turn Virtual Memory off when using the Easy Access features. To turn off Virtual Memory, select Control Panels --> Memory from your Apple Menu and click the “off” radio button next to Virtual Memory, then restart your Mac.
MouseKeys. MouseKeys is a program that lets you control all mouse movements by typing on the numeric keypad. This utility is especially valuable for people who lack the manual dexterity to maneuver a mouse.

Turn on MouseKeys by pressing Command-Shift-Clear simultaneously. You can also use the Easy Access control panel to turn MouseKeys on and off.
You’ll notice a zipping sound indicating that MouseKeys has been activated. Now you can use the numeric keypad to direct mouse movements on the screen. The numbers on the keypad are like the points of a compass. The 5 key on the numeric keypad serves as the mouse button. The 8 key goes up, the 2 key goes down, the 4 key goes left and the 6 key goes right. Mouse lock is the 0 key and the mouse button unlock is the “.” key.


You can change the speed of the mouse cursor by modifying the Easy Access control panel. Change the Initial Delay setting to “short” and change the Maximum Speed setting to “fast.” Now try using MouseKeys again, and notice the change in speed.
Sticky Keys. StickyKeys is a software keylatch, meaning it can help you hold down keys during times when you must press two or three keys simultaneously (if you need to type a capital letter or a question mark, for example). For people with a physical disability who type with one finger or with a mouth wand, this keylatch feature is a helpful tool.
Turn on StickyKeys by pressing the Shift key five times. (You can also use the Easy Access Control Panel to turn StickyKeys On and Off). You’ll notice a sound effect and a small icon of an empty bucket appearing in the upper right hand corner of the menu bar, indicating StickyKeys is active.

Type a capital letter using StickyKeys by taking one finger and pressing the Shift key once. Look at the StickyKeys icon again and you’ll see that there is now an arrow pointing into the bucket. This indicates the Shift key you just pressed has been “locked” into memory. The next letter you press will be capitalized.


You can also use StickyKeys for sequences that require more than two modifier keys to be held down simultaneously (for example, Command-Shift-1 to eject a floppy disk).


Turn StickyKeys off by pressing the Shift key (again) five times (or go to the Easy Access control panel).
Slow Keys. SlowKeys enables the user to change the length of time it takes for a keystroke to be registered on the screen. This allows for several keys to be pressed accidentally without effect. For a child or adult with fine motor difficulties, this customizable feature saves unwanted keystrokes from appearing on the screen.
Turn on SlowKeys by opening up the Easy Access control panel. You’ll hear a zipping sound effect signifying that SlowKeys is activated. Change the Acceptance Delay setting to increase the time between keystrokes.
NOTE: There is also a Mouse Keys for the PowerBook (4k), because the PowerBook does not have a built-in numeric keypad. The file “Mouse Keys for the PowerBook” is used to emulate the numeric keyboard on the standard PowerBook keyboard.

Text-to-Speech. Your computer can speak the alert messages that appear on the screen. 26 different voices to choose from. Set your computer to speak alert messages using the Talking Alerts section of the Speech control panel. In some application programs, your computer can also read text contained in documents out loud.
Speech Recognition Features

Speaker independence — you don’t have to “train” the software.
Continuous speech — you can talk naturally without pauses between words.
Flexible vocabulary that can be customized.
Ability to function accurately in real-world environments using the “push-to-talk” feature.
English Text-To-Speech
English Text-to-Speech (also known as Speech Synthesis) converts text to spoken words. Just imagine having this web page read aloud to you, or having information on your Mac read to you over the phone! These, and more, applications are now possible with PlainTalk speech synthesis technology.
Mexican Spanish Text-to-Speech
Mexican Spanish Text-to-Speech offers all the features and advantages of English Text-to-Speech, but in Spanish, with an authentic south-of-the-border accent. Improve your Spanish with applications incorporating this muy caliente technology!
Note: This new version of the popular Easy Access control panel allows Sticky Keys to remain active after waking up if it was active when the PowerBook or other portable computer went to sleep. Also, Easy Access now remembers whether sticky keys, mouse keys, and slow keys were on or off between restarts.

For more information about the Easy Access software and CloseView, refer to your Macintosh User Manual, or contact us at:
Apple Computer, Inc.
One Infinite Loop
Mail Stop 303-3ED
Cupertino, CA 95014
800-767-2775

Okay.. i'm going to go nuts.

#1. I'm in the government. And i work on stuff i can't talk about. If you know ANYTHING about that world - that world was 100 NeXT for many many years.

yes... NeXT. Steve Jobs was a good salesman... but it eventually wore off.

Okay.. so NeXT died.. and they had to use something for the last 5 years... and that was Windows.

The government is going 100 Windows. Period. They are fleeing Solaris and HP Unix and VMS (thank goodness) with all possible speed.

Do not fool yourself into thinking that they will ever use any form of Linux or anything like that.

I am one of 2 people that has a Mac where i work - and that was a complete con job on the operations folks... okay.. maybe not a con job so much as it was that I am a Captain and i told the TSgt that i was going to keep one of the old Macs and she was going to deal with it.

in any case....

please stop with the govt. going to MacOS X... stop with ADA and junk like that..

the govt. sees $1200 dell computers and buys them by the shipload... and that's all they are ever going to buy. And the only servers they are going to buy a Windows 2000 servers and that is all they are ever going to buy. And they are going to run on Exchange and that is all they are ever going to buy. And they are moving to Active Directory and they are unifying each service under a single <service.mil> nomenclature.

please - love you mac, as i love my mac, but please just STOP with govt. purchases.. because other than the graphic arts guys who lobbied like a buhdists at an Al Gore fundraiser at a temple.... the US govt is 100 windows, and always will be beholden to Microsoft.

if you doubt it, call any AF base, any govt. agency, and ask the person who picked up the phone - "What kind of computer are you on?"

if you hear anything other than windows, i'll give you $10.

and for the record.....

AFP is AppleShare File Server!!!!
http://www.apple.com/appleshareip/text/extensions.html if you doubt.

Captain o Captain. We're talking about the other branches of the government here. And yes they did toy with Linux.

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...06&mode=thread

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...29&mode=thread

[edit: UBB can suck sometimes]

[This message has been edited by Scott_H (edited 02-24-2001).]

Maybe what the govt want is ease of use plus power plus security.

Anything come to mind?

Plus with UNIX one can probably add anything for increased security.
If Apple pull this off it would really help their bottom line - they could even run modified tank ads!

What I'm really excited about is the 3rd party stuff - how far are Apple going to go to get drivers available - this could be beyond my wildest dreams. Man if they really work at this the could blow M$ out of the water for ease of use, reliability and plug in and play. I think that's a major selling point for first time buyers.

Neil

Originally posted by kertong:
I believe AFS stands for "Asynchronous File System"..

its a bit faster, but in case of a crash, some data maybe be lost, since the changes may not have been written to the HD yet.

I *think* thats what it is, i'mm reasonably sure. If I'm wrong, please, somebody correct me.

i can't belive no one here knows what AFS stand for!::-)

it stands for Apple File Services. Check out apple.com/macosx/server to get more info


... and you call yourselves mac users... :-)

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Mac OS 10: not just a new OS, but a new concept!

Originally posted by iCartman:
That's not the part that worries me. I have a problem that the DOD and NSA are pouring over the source code to OSX. It sounds like big brother is placing some code in OSX to make their jobs easier. Pouring over the source code to check for secruity leaks doesn't make any sense, a third party device driver (or daemon) can destroy any exisitng security model. I'd be suprised if Apple was foolish enough to give access to thier source code to outside organizations, it seems as if you were given wrong information on this part (or marketing bs).
[/B]

that is absolute BS. first, the government is not adding code to your OS X... let alone adding its personal back doors to get in. if anything it is testing to see if it is prone to certian security breaches which would make it unsafe over the network. you can be pretty much certain they aren't committing changes they want to make.

Any device driver or daemon can destroy your security model? Thanks. Thing is that's not a problem so long as unwanted users can't install their trojan horse device drivers. more to the point , that is exactly why the govt. would be looking at OS X's code. It's like saying that I could break into your computer if you let me install a program that sends me all your passwords. The purpose of network security is preventing that access to begin with. FWIW, you need root access to install a device driver anyway which would be more difficult still to obtain.

There is something of an axiom is network security that says that if someone has physical access to your hardware, they are going to see your data if they want to. Similarly, assuming you give anyone access to install whatever device driver/daemon/whatever they want, they also have access to your data. To say that OS X is insecure because that could happen is like saying that your house is not safe.... if you leave the key under the mat.

Points being, 1)security in general is not futile. 2)OS X could very well be a very secure operating system as long as 3)user access is handled appropriately, and 4) the govt is not writing any part of OS X.

-Eric

that is absolute BS. first, the government is not adding code to your OS X... let alone adding its personal back doors to get in. if anything it is testing to see if it is prone to certian security breaches which would make it unsafe over the network. you can be pretty much certain they aren't committing changes they want to make.

Ok, first of all, I'm not saying it's true. All I wanted to point out is that if I recall correctly an EU commission has proven NT has backdoors for the NSA, having explicit references to the NSA in its code. This might have to do with a larger conspiracy theory which I am in now way defending here, that says DOS was put onto every IBM machine because of the NSA. All I'm saying is they have in the past put pressure on developpers for having access to the system via backdoors.

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Soyons réalistes, demandons l'impossible.

SYN, are you iCartman?

Ummm... I plead the 5th

Seriously though, I don't know what possessed me, I probably was a bit tired, but reading that post again I told myself "WTF???" and only then did I realize I was the one who posted that...

Move along, nothing to see here

(I'm not deleting it because I want a reminder that too much AI boards can drive you nuts )

(And I'm not iCartman)

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Soyons réalistes, demandons l'impossible.

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
Woah. That's some good stuff. I'm glad the Aqua UI division is thinking about Dock orientation, and I hope they'll make the right choice (customizability, obviously -- more options are better, always).

The printer drivers also seem to be coming along well, that thread with the 4K56 info said that all the drivers the guy tried (admittedly only two ) worked flawlessly.

Apple's developers invited people over for a driver dev party, lol

btw, who are you that Apple is inviting you to see these cutting-edge builds and speak w/ Apple engineers about Mac OS X? just curious.

I'm no one special. In fact, I'm someone SO not special, that the apple engineer probably didn't think there was any problem with filling me in on this stuff. The conference was held to basically show the educational market "A Detailed technical look at MacOS X." I am a student, and having talked to several Apple reps I get invited to the meetings now. Most of the new information was revealed to me individually, during a break, by the apple engineer. Some of it, however (the NSA and DOD part) were revealed to everyone at the meeting when he was harping on the security benefits of OS X. This is, of course, important to a lot of schools. This session was followed by a interactive discussion where the engineer actually wanted to hear our thoughts and suggestions. It was kind of funny being the only student in the room, and basically being the only one holding an intelligent conversation with him. He wrote down most of the thoughts, and was supposedly taking them back for a final intense week of OSX work.

One other interesting thing. Someone asked what the "More MacOS X software" menu was that is now found under the apple menu. He showed us. It tried to take us to a website located on apple's servers, however apparently that page isn't there yet because we got "Page not found."

One teacher asked about OS X and about support for the disabled. The engineer admitted that although he didn't know about that, he had heard of something or other being done to work out that area. He said that Apple had cut off working with groups to benefit disability when they were trying to survive, but that he agreed that it was high time they started doing that again. He said that if nothing else, he would try to find that out for us.

It looks like someone else got to attend basically the same meeting i did. The information as follows was posted to the Omni group OS X list. Some of it is the same as I said, but there is some stuff here I failed to write down. This was an e-mail sent by someone to the list who had been in contact with Michael. I got rid of the Apple Reps name to avoid any trouble he might get into. I believe this is in fact the same exact meeting I went to. This is not me talking remember.

Michael Maskalans <snowcrazy2@mac.com> attended some sort of Apple-sponsored tech briefing the other day, and took some interesting notes. A lot of the content would probably be old hat for people on this list, but there were some notable highlights that I've picked out. I asked Michael if any of this is under NDA and he said:

"I never signed one, and it has never been mentioned in either of the OS X presentations I have attended, and no one from Apple who is on the lists I have told about it have mentioned anythign to me either, so the bottom line is no, as of yet."


On to the highlights...

- Darwin apparently somehow sidesteps the 2040 Unix date limitation and can function roughly to the year 22,000 AD (can someone explain this?)

- Mach 3.0 supports up to 64 processors (not new, but damn cool)

- "privileges have changed significantly since public beta", owner may have more privileges now

- BSD subsystem is an optional install (except the core networking, threading, etc. I would assume)

- Cocoa frameworks have been reorganized a bit

- Apple didn't get the proper papers into the NSA on time, so SSH can't be exported, and therefore, can't be on the CD. It will be a separate download.

- Connectix is working on an OSX version of VirtualPC to be available soon after 3/24

- The Finger toolbar appears to accept any file system object, even a hard drive icon. I assume this makes it basically feature compatible with NeXT shelf (?).

- Goal is to release OSX Server 2.0 two months after OSX release. Server will come with ~350 page manual.

- The new G4s apparently have some smart hardware in them that can communicate with the OS in regards to system state. This should enable some form of fault tolerance.

- The "SERVER=-YES-" flag in /System/Library/StartupItems/SystemTuning apparently tells the OS to use all available RAM as a disk cache


Thanks Michael!

Anyway, there you are



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M. Robert
MultiMedia

AFS stands for Andrew File System. It doesn't stand for anything else. If someone is saying "AFS" when they mean something else, they're using the term incorrectly; AFS is a trademark of Transarc, a division of IBM. <http://www.transarc.com/Product/EFS/AFS/index.html>

AFS was developed by Carnegie Mellon University for the IBM-sponsored Andrew campus-wide distributed computing environment project in the late 1980s. It was spun off into a separate company, Transarc, which sells it as a commercial product.

IBM recently released an Open Source version of AFS called OpenAFS <http://www.openafs.org/> which includes both AFS client and server support. People are working on getting it working on Darwin (and therefore Mac OS X).

Hasn't it been proven over and over and over that a Mac, despite the higher hardware costs initially, can and will save you money on the IT/support end? (That's a rhetorical question, so don't answer it...) My dad is the IT manager at a newspaper that uses a lot of Macs and PCs for the business side of things. Anywho, he spends 95% of his time managing the PCs and less than 5% on the macs, despite a 50-50 split in the number of Macs and PCs.

With OS X, this will get even better, I imagine. The government will soon have no choice but to at least think about Macs due to the cost savings in the long run. Oh, Macs also have a longer average life use (something on the order of 3+ years) whereas PCs are upgraded far more often.

krove

P.S. Currently I'm on track toward medical school, but if something goes wrong, my life mission is to become a Government IT manager at some big agency to turn things to OUR side...

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*The next sentence is entirely true...
*The previous sentence is most decidedly false...

Originally posted by cmh:

IBM recently released an Open Source version of AFS called OpenAFS <http://www.openafs.org/> which includes both AFS client and server support. People are working on getting it working on Darwin (and therefore Mac OS X).

This is what I was referring to. Apple is still incorporating these changes into OS X.

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M. Robert
MultiMedia

It is a known fact that the U.S goverment did use NeXT for sometime, but the areas that really like the machines, as well as the software, were the DOD, CIA, and NSA. I had the pleasure of knowing a gentleman(who has since past away) who was a very good friend of my father, they were both in the Knights of Colombus, he was a cryptologist in the U.S. Navy then later worked at the NSA, he was pretty high up. He used to tell me that, back in its hey day, the NeXT/OPENstep system was the best OS system in dealing with the vast security messaging issues within DOD, CIA, and NSA. He told me that a good deal of the of the really good cryptic language was developed under that system(NeXT/OPENstep). I do not think that Apple is going for the whole governrment, I think that is silly, but, instead pieces; they are going to those within U.S. Defense/Security who they know will be impressed with OS-X and its abilities, as well as suspect that there are those who are knocking at Apple's door who remember NeXT. And remember outside of the government that NeXT had a fan base, there are those like me who remember using the system in the Finance arena, I wonder if Apple is being approached by former NeXT Fortune 500 companies for certain things that would make their life easier. I am no more than a simple user and observer. So that my penny thought.

[This message has been edited by iSoulBrotha (edited 02-24-2001).]

[q]Originaly posted by gsfprez and for the record.....
AFP is AppleShare File Server!!!![/q]

What are you talking about?!! He said AFS, not AFP!

I'm just dreaming, but how about "Apple File System"?

[This message has been edited by the rev (edited 02-24-2001).]

It is a known fact that the U.S goverment did use NeXT for sometime, but the areas that really like the machines, as well as the software, were the DOD, CIA, and NSA. I had the pleasure of knowing a gentleman who was a very good friend of my father, they were both in the Knights of Colombus, he was a cryptologist in the U.S. Navy then later worked at the NSA, he was pretty high up. He used to tell me that, back in its hey day, the NeXT/OPENstep system was the best OS system in dealing with the vast security messaging issues within DOD, CIA, and NSA. He told me that a good deal of the of the really good cryptic language was developed under that system(NeXT/OPENstep). I do not think that Apple is going for the whole governrment, I think that is silly, but, instead pieces; they are going to those within U.S. Defense/Security who they know will be impressed with OS-X and its abilities, as well as suspect that there are those who are knocking at Apple's door who remember NeXT. And remember outside of the government that NeXT had a fan base, there are those like me who remember using the system in the Finance arena, I wonder if Apple is being approached by former NeXT Fortune 500 companies for certain things that would make their life easier. I am no more than a simple user and observer. So that my penny thought.

[gorgonzola]

I saw that before and I don't know what the hell it means? How the heck can the BSD Subsystem be an optional install? The entire OS is functioning on the BSD Subsystem!

If this just means CLI hooks like Terminal.app and support for >console logins, I don't know why the package should be ~84 MB and called "BSD Subsystem" as if it's the entire thing.

Can anyone clarify exactly what is in that optional install?

And btw: that's neat, I have to get hold of some Apple reps so I get invited to these meetings. When I go to college I expect I'll meet some at some point.

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