Darwin is in need of a mascot. Some people are trying their hand at it. If you can try a hand at coming up with mascot.

Current mascots: http://www.whippetware.com/DarwinMascot

You can vote for the current ones. http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~kellrott/darwin.html

I like the platypus... it's different, and it's a strange bird like the penguin. (Is the platypus a bird?)

No, a platypus is not a bird.
It's an amphibious duckbilled egg laying mammal.
It's aussie.

I voted for the Tortoise (fits the name Darwin, as does Iguana...but i prefer the Tortoise plus an Iguana was the mascot of System7.5.5 'iguana iguana power surgeous i believe'). But a Tortoise mounted BSDevil or hybrid BSDevil+Tortoise might be better..long as it looks cool.

I liked that platypus... it is a strange animal, though...

Maybe it's from Mars or something

------------------
Be Happy.

The platypus is cute. There was a category for a snake..no drawing.

------------------
http://www.macgorilla.com
"Saving the Universe from the scum of Windows"

A platypus is a marsupial. I didn't think that marsupials were mammals OR birds. I thought they were their own thing. I think that there is only 1 other type of marsupial, but I don't remember the name.

Platypuses are monotremes. The only other monotremes are the echidna.

Monotremes are warmblooded furry animals that lay eggs but feed their young from mammary glands. Even though platypuses are popularly imagined to be marsupials they aren't (hint: they lay eggs and lack pouches).

Monotremes rock!

I vote for the Chimp on Nickelodeon's "Wild Thornberrys."

------------------
Peep my iDisk: rambo47
"There is no spoon."

I don't think tortoise is a good idea. It makes you think that the OS is slow.

Why are the current suggestions demon-like? I am not sure that this is a great idea.

Aniraf: Don't be freaked out by the daemon, it's harmless. That cute little sneaker-wearing fella is the mascot of BSD -- which is now the heart of Darwin. Check this out:

http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html

There's also a great story in the introduction to "The Complete FreeBSD" about the experiences of a woman wearing a BSD Daemon branded t-shirt into a diner in Texas. (I'd link to it, but can't seem to locate it online -- help anyone?)

[This message has been edited by LuckyJack (edited 09-20-2000).]

Gotta go with the platypus since it is the only known venomous mammal. (It has spine on it back legs)

Darwin: Mess with us and we'll jab you with the spines in our back legs…er…sumthin'…

------------------
Believe me, I'm always
right. Unless I'm
mistaken.

Hey, if we're going with Australian Mammals, my vote is for Steve Erwin the Crocodile Hunter.

"Krikey, this MacOSX sure is a beaut. But I have to be careful. If it bites me, I could die!"

Why all the demonic/anti-Christian undertones in the mascot selections?

Is that the required mind-set of those who want to work with Darwin? Is that why Apple called it Darwin--in the hopes of putting off people of a certain faith? I seriously doubt that! Perhaps you just wanted to be a little discourteous to a certain segment of the population for no reason whatsoever?

Look, I'm not trying to be a prude here--I see the attempt at humor, but the images chosen obviously show a lack of curiosity towards a sincere faith--that's an attitude that has no place in promoting a computer operating system. Perhaps it was just due to ignorance--perhaps the people behind these proposed mascots really didn't know that they might actually turn some people off because, cute or not, they really will portray an underlying anti-Christian attitude to a reasonable number of people of that faith. But once it has been brought to their attention, I certainly hope they have the courtesy to re-think the choices.

They aren't harmless images--no matter where they originated from--if they are needlessly offensive. Even if you personally think it's stupid to find them offensive, why not be open minded and welcome all to this open source system?

I'd say that a the platypus WITHOUT the horns, pitchfork, and forbidden-fruit imagery would be a nice mascot--a little jab at the penguin, and cute to boot.


-Jay

Hinson,

Why don't you read the entire thread before you fly off the freakin' handle will ya. Read LuckyJack's post and try to understand that not everything in life has religious meanings.

Jim

How about an Orca, I think (Killer Whale). They like eating penguins don't.
They only eat a few.

Cheers

Gaffa.

Originally posted by Hinson:
Why all the demonic/anti-Christian undertones in the mascot selections?

Just because Christianity used pre-christian religions symbology as a representation of evil does not give Christians exclusive rights over horns, cloven hooves, pitchforks etc. Pitchforks and fire are very Dante, horns and goat like features are Pan.

Also many satanists would argue that they are not anti-christian, but see peace in reconcilliation of God, Satan and Jesus. Plus Duck Billed Platipi are NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY!

Nor are Unix Daemon threads!

P.S. I am not a satanist, wacky pagan or anything other convenient category.

P.S.

"Many people equate the word ``daemon'' with the word ``demon,'' implying some kind of Satanic connection between UNIX and the underworld. This is an egregious misunderstanding. ``Daemon'' is actually a much older form of ``demon''; daemons have no particular bias towards good or evil, but rather serve to help define a person's character or personality. The ancient Greeks' concept of a ``personal daemon'' was similar to the modern concept of a ``guardian angel'' --- ``eudaemonia'' is the state of being helped or protected by a kindly spirit. As a rule, UNIX systems seem to be infested with both daemons and demons." (p403)

Unix System Administration Handbook, Evi Nemeth

graphixmaker,

I did read LuckyJack's post, did you actually read all of mine? It doesn't matter what you think about these things, what matters is that the the imagry ALREADY has a very well established undertone. Here's the part I think you find so hard to get: just because YOU don't have a problem with that imagery and truly believe that it is in every way, shape, and form harmless, that does NOT change the fact that the imagery to others has well established undertones. The real question is can you be courteous enough to consider the thoughts, feelings, and beliefs of others? Do you expect others to give up their thoughts on those images just because we've coopted them for our own use? How silly. EXPECT to have to explain these things to others over and over and over and over because BSD people (and now Darwin people) have chosen to use images that already have an evil undertone to them. They are trying to change that meaning to meet there own mind-sets. If you don't expect people to take it the wrong way, you're fooling yourself. If you say, "yeah, people will take it the wrong way, but that's their problem," then you are showing a dishonorable lack of courtesy towards others. That's just basic reasoning.

Since your brought up LuckJack's post, note that in it (actually on the web page he points to) he has a note about how the term "Daemon" really isn't the same thing as the concept of a demon. That's all well and good, and I doubt anyone would try to claim that UNIX is evil because it uses some term like Daemon. However, the image used to promote BSD is an attempt to cutesy-up a classic demon image (not an attempt to create a new image to portray a Daemon). Expect there to be misunderstandings!!! To those who believe Christian teaching, forces against God are real, and an attempt to make them cute and acceptable in any context is both condescending and extremely foolish. I KNOW YOU MIGHT NOT BELIVE THAT, but don't discount its validity among those who do hold to such a faith. To do so would, again, either be ignorant or discourteous. Again, these are simply logical conclusions from known facts. Ignore them if you want, but that won't change the fact that the images WILL put people off for very natural, logical, and unnecessary reasons.

One last thing: you said "not everything in life has religious meaning." I'd say that the operating system you use does not have religious meaning, yet people have chosen to use religious (actually anti-religious) images as mascots for OSes. That imagery DOES HAVE RELIGIOUS MEANINGS. You can't deny that. It's not something I just came up with, the imagery has been pre-established among various faiths. No one believes a demon would actually look anything like that, but the imagery portrays a meaning, nonetheless. So, if you don't want to have religious context to an OS, then why use anti-religious imagery? OH, I know the answer: "because it's just harmless fun--it doesn't have any REAL religious meaning." AH, but it does--not to you, but open your mind and realize that the imagery DOES portray religious meaning to others, no matter what you think about it. Using images that to YOU don't have religious meaning when you know that to OTHERS it does is, by definition, a statement downplaying their beliefs. Imagine if I (not being Jewish) made an OS called "DAVE," then took the Star of David and made it morph into, say, a computer screen and then back to a star. I find nothing personally wrong with the imagery, but because I have a brain and experience, I KNOW that using a religious symbol in that way would be discourteous to people who hold dearly to the Jewish faith. I would be either a fool or a rude person to go on using such imagery.

In short, if you don't want your OS to have a religious or anti-religious undertone to it, then don't use either religious or anti-religious symbols to promote it. If you do and you don't expect people to be offended, or if you expect people to think "oh wait, because this is about computers, I can't be thinking about my basic belief system," then you're just being foolish.


-Jay

Hinson-

Let’s go back to your first post. When you ask if Apple chose the name “Darwin” to put off people of a certain faith, there is a part of me that hopes your are being a touch sarcastic. I am a Christian. I believe Darwin was right. I see nothing in the theories that Darwin put forward that contradicts my core belief that Christ is “the way, the truth and the light” and that there is no way to the Father except through Him. I imagine that Apple chose the name Darwin to symbolize evolution- a work in progress. It is Apple’s stated hope that something more advanced will come out of the chaos that is open-source development. Hopefully the ideas and code that is the “fittest” will survive. I completely understand and respect that there are those that see Darwin’s as an affront to their beliefs, and I am sorry that it offends them. However, people can see the majesty of nature and science and recognize it as God’s creation. In the same way the Christianity has accepted the theories of Galileo and the existence of dinosaurs (both were STRONGLY denounced by the church), we should examine how evolution and natural selection glorifies God’s creation instead of labeling it evil.

As for the Demonic imagery, it can be called anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-Islamic etc, but not anti-religious. Demons are religious symbols. There is at least one religion, Satanism, that I’m sure sees it as a nice touch. As for myself- a cute little BSD demon is no more offensive than a Precious Moments(http://www.preciousmoments.com/) angel. It’s a silly little picture that people like. If it offends you, avoid it. Or come up with a better one. But don’t assume that people that promote a derivation of the BSD Daemon as a symbol of Darwin are making a personal affront to your beliefs. The Inquisition, the Crusades and Tammy Faye Baker have all done more the harm the church than a cartoon character.

Keep your faith close to your heart where it belongs. Which means basically..KEEP IT OFF THESE DAMN BOARDS. I may be an anti-christian, but i'm NOT gonna get off on some off-topic inappropriate rant saying nothing that's worth reading on these boards, unlike some others...as much as I'd like to. So please refer back to line #2, and take it elsewhere. Specifically some place private (or public that it would be appropriate to speak about such), which preferably would exclude me.

Thank you. Now Shut up.
And may the admins trash this topic.

If it gets back on topic it can say.

The topic is The Darwin Mascot. Vote for the one you like. What we like don't like about any of them. After that point we're off topic.

I think that the platypus image from the first post wins... it is perfect. It is cute, shows its' BSD past and introduces the perfect animal to describe what apple has done. Darwin is a mix of different things... just like the platypus is

I LIKE IT!!!!

IMHO, a DNA helix that morphs into binary code would be awesome. It fully embodies the name, Darwin, while implying that it is the evolution of Operating Systems. I am not in favor of any cutesy little animals...because it reminds me too much of the linux penguin. Lets think different and be unique...

-The Dude (abides)...

How about a water elemental? Aqua / Darwin a water daemon...

Anyway the Palti looks good but they have a longer more narrow bill, that one looks a lot like Donald Duck. I think their bills are a bluish black as well. Theey have a wirely fur too I think.

I can see the problem with the pitch fork and Apple. Very biblical but I could care less my self hell look at my nickname.

I'm not evil...

What if the mascot was a tarantella. Or a millipede. People don't like either of those animals, so those mascots would reflect against the OS on a sub-conscious level. I like the platypus, but I also dislike the fact that it is also some kind of demon/daemon. The assumed imagery it will undoubtedly create in people who have a natural aversion to demons (or, excuse me, daemons) will leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

The general person who comes in contact with the Darwin mascot isn't going to care where it came from. They just want it to "feel right" right off the bat. They're not going to listen to you explaining that a daemon and a demon aren't the same thing. Let's avoid any kind of religious or mythical symbol that has feelings associated with it of any kind. A platypus by itself is great, but not a mixture platypus/daemon.

Two possibilities to fix this problem:

1) What if we made the platypus look totally normal except for having a forked tail? This would be more subtle and provide a more solid tie-in without looking "daemonic" right off the bat.

2) Have a different mascot alltogether with no negative associations. Like a muscular gorilla/chimp/ape in the tradition of Darwin. Survival of the fittest. Make this ape look like the fittest ape. Get the picture? An ape, like a platypus, is a character you don't find in many places.

JL!

Perhaps I'm off base here, but I assumed if the topic was choosing a mascot for Darwin, and explaining reasons for choices would be appropriate. If discussions of faith and personal belief systems are inappropriate, than I will respect that. Although I did read the restrictions:

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and such discussions are not prohibited, so as long as we are discussing our choices, or reasons for our choices, I believe, Scott_H, we are staying on topic.

But if it will make you happy, I’ll just say that I’m a big fan of the Platypus and leave it at that.

The purpose of my previous post was to get the post back on topic so that we could avoid some trivial religious rant. Obviously that idea backfired. Thank you to the rest of the people here, for getting back on topic. I don't need or want to discuss my belief system on this board. If someone else thinks they need to -fine- but leave me the **** out of it. 'Nuf said.

Jim

P.S. I like the platy, but I am not sure it conveys what Darwin connotates.

Maybe I should have wrote "As long as it continues to stay on topic".

The above posts fall under the "What we like or don't like" aspect. The public perception of Darwin is important. The mascot is part of that.

Anyway, back to the Mascots.

Hi, Paco...

First, let me say that because of the general topic of this board, I do not want to get into discussions of my personal religious beliefs. In fact, no where in my posts have I even stated what my beliefs are. My point was simply to note that some people will be wary of the some of the images being used.

As for the name "Darwin," as I indicated in my earlier post, I certainly don't think it was chosen to put off anyone's beliefs. My point was that since Darwin wasn't meant to have any religious undertones, then why should we want its mascot to carry any. However, now that I think about it, we should consider that putting together the name of the OS with imagery that brings "satanic" concepts to mind will have a further impact on putting off some Christians. Many may bring to mind those stupid little "Darwin fish" which took an established symbol of the Christian faith in general and used it to poke fun at certain segments of the faith. How utterly insensitive and indicative of an ennoble attitude towards fellow human beings. So many people today seem so uncaring of the beliefs of others. As I see it such general cordiality is lacking today, and I'd just personally like to see thought be put into these considerations if a mascot is actually ever chosen.

Finally, to thoth. You indicated that you were indeed anti-Christian. Like it or not, you just put your "faith" out there for others to see. I wouldn't have written my message on this board quite the way Paco did, but someone's beliefs really can be part of every aspect of their lives if they really, truly believe it to be an absolute truth. I don't want to discuss my faith on this board either, but like it or not, people's faiths will play a part in how they view the purpose of a given mascot. That consideration is a legitimate, logical part of this current discussion.

Gee, I hope this one more post concerning a free-willed discussion in which that horrid topic "religion" is touched on won't send anyone into a murderous killing spree. What a world.


-Jay

hinson,

Fine, some fundamentalists may find the mascot in question offensive; you've made your point, now leave it alone and stop 'baiting.' Your long winded rants are starting to be annoying.

Okay, I'm going to clear this up for poor Hinton.
Hinton: the references of "demons" has nothing to do with the name "Darwin."
It all stems from the fact that Darwin is built on Unix, which implements services called "Daemons." That's why FreeBSD has the "Lil' Demon" mascot.
That's it. End of story.

Now can we get back to glorifying our brother the platypus?

Well, I like the Platty, I don't like the demon imagery - However cute it might be, it will put off some people. Yes I am a Christian. Does that make me a fundamentalist? If you want to label me fine. I don't really care what you think about me. A mascot's purpose is to promote a brand, do we want one that a large percentage of the population find offensive (however sub-consciencely?)

I also think that a muscle bound Gorilla sounds like a good idea - plays on the Darwin ref.

To answer Dalgo's question, a platypus is a mammal, but not a marsupial. A marsupial is a mammal with a pouch (opposum, kangaroo, wallaby, etc...)

I went and looked at the Darwin Developers mailing list.

Seems to me that Hexley is the favorite amoung the list members.

The platypus is awesome but it looks too much like Donald Duck, which is not just a copyright problem...
Let him/her have a longer beak, that should solve it.

I like the platypus
altho something about the plat suggests evolution gone awry. Is Darwin OS evolution gone awry?

My vote is for the plat regardless,..

apple has always been viewed as different,..why not embrace it?

Does the mascot have to be animal like? If it doesn't how about a picture of Charles Darwin himself with an Apple logo over his head? You know, kind of like the whole Newton and the apple revelation, except this would be Darwin and his Apple revelation.

I love the platypus too. Though the way Platypoda have not become ubiquitous but rather have evolved into a niche may be indicative of Darwin's status as a niche OS. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Anyway, I'm Christian as well. Demon is simply not a biblical word at all. The word is never used to describe the Devil. And his followers are always referred to as Angels or evil spirits.

Oh I believe the Devil exists. But he doesn't have horns and a tail and hooves and a pitchfork any more than Moses had horns after he came down from talking to God.

Therefore I have absolutely no trouble with the cute Platypus wearing the little horned hat and using a pitchfork with an apple on it.

Hi again... YES, I'm going to comment about the Mascot, but first...

"kill all hippies" wrote:
>hinson! no one cares! and while i've got your attention, get a life!

Hmmm, what a well thought out, logical argument. I have an extremely full life, thank you, and I'm really pushing my time to make these posts. It's my choice though. And if no one cares, then why all the comments?

kps111 wrote:
>...now leave it alone and stop 'baiting.' Your long winded rants are starting to be annoying.

Um, I've actually tried to finish the point and leave it alone, but people like you keep making comments to me. Oh, and I find it funny that when I spend my time trying to post a well thought-out argument its considered to be a "rant"--just because it actually makes you read more than you want to. If you find them annoying, there's a simple solution: don't read them.

Finally, the funniest one of all.

gotterdamm wrote:

> Okay, I'm going to clear this up for poor Hinton.
> Hinton: the references of "demons" has nothing to do with the name "Darwin."
> It all stems from the fact that Darwin is built on Unix, ,,,

Hehehe...Um, could you make it any more obvious that you didn't actually read much of anything I posted? In my posts I made it clear that I DID understand where all the demon images originated from and that I did NOT think that the name "Darwin" had anything to do with it. Oh, and just to drive the point home, the name is Hinson, not Hinton. Hehehe.


NOW, about the mascot. I too thought of Daffy when I saw the platypus. He's cute, but something needs to be done about the Daffy Duck look. Also, just to annoy people, note that yet another person has noted that they like the platypus but not the demon (or, as some people will interpret it, devil) imagery.

As for the picture of Darwin with an apple, that doesn't sound like a very lovable mascot. Besides, people might not easily recognize him and, seeing the apple, might immediately think "is that supposed to be Newton?"

Just my thoughts.


-Jay



[This message has been edited by Hinson (edited 09-21-2000).]

HAY, I just had a new idea...

How about this: take the platypus and have him holding the pitch fork behind his back. On the end of the pitchfork is hanging the little horned hat, and in place of the hat over the platypus' head is a translucent blue halo (reminiscent of Aqua)!

It's subtle message: Darwin is the system on which OS X is built, allowing some of the "evilness" of UNIX to be put behind the scenes and replaced with the "loveliness" of Aqua. Now, I know that Darwin isn't OS X, but since that's its main use, this imagery would remind people of where it comes from and what it ultimately stands for.

What do you think?

Of course, we could keep the current platypus for the Darwin mascot and use my description above for the Mac OS X mascot--might that be an interesting idea?


-Jay

I kinda like the idea of the platypus with a blue Aqua halo: a more obtuse but clever reference to Unix. I kinda think the platypus is too, um, complex for people to get: "why a duck? why a beaver?"

Has anyone thought of a fish? Darwin: evolution, fish: aqua. No? Worth a shot. I like fishies.

The entire Darwin/Daemon thing doesn't matter all that much to be honest. This is the mascot for Darwin the behind the scenes open source development project. Few if any casual users are going to come into contact with it.

Most of the developers on Darwin (the people the mascot will be for) will be BSD and Linux programmers. And these people are well and truely used to the BSD Daemon mascot, and could possibley be offended if it were not a part of the new logo. And to be frank a large percentage aren't religious people.

Personally I like the Plati mascot. It pays hoage to the BSD roots as well as differentating itself as an Apple product. Plus it just looks cool.

The other suggestion of a Plati with an aqua halo sounds intersting but I would need to see it before I would go with it over the Daemon guy,

How about a blueish bill, a blue translucent halo, and a crystal fencing sword with an Apple with a bite out of it stuck on the end.


?

The entire Darwin/Daemon thing doesn't matter all that much to be honest. This is the mascot for Darwin the behind the scenes open source development project. Few if any casual users are going to come into contact with it.

Most of the developers on Darwin (the people the mascot will be for) will be BSD and Linux programmers. And these people are well and truely used to the BSD Daemon mascot, and could possibley be offended if it were not a part of the new logo. And to be frank a large percentage aren't religious people.

Personally I like the Plati mascot. It pays hoage to the BSD roots as well as differentating itself as an Apple product. Plus it just looks cool.

The other suggestion of a Plati with an aqua halo sounds intersting but I would need to see it before I would go with it over the Daemon guy,

I like the hornes on the platypus. BSD has had their demon for years, nobody has complaint. I will be offended if you take away the horns. In my religion we are only allowed to use operating systems that have mascots with hornes.

It's obvious - it should be a finch!

Darwin was observing and cataloging finches on Galapagos when evolution occured to him.

If time permits, I'll work on a logo this weekend.

Mr.F

I love the idea of a penguin-eating Orca (killer whale)! A powerful mammal that lives beneath the Aqua surface.

Originally posted by Cedhed:
The entire Darwin/Daemon thing doesn't matter all that much to be honest. This is the mascot for Darwin the behind the scenes open source development project. Few if any casual users are going to come into contact with it.

Cedhed, you are grossly underestimating the possibilities of Darwin. What if this Mascot becomes as famous/more famous than Tux the Penguin? I see him in papers and magazines all the time! He's right out there in front where the most average person comes into contact with him. If Darwin is done well, it may very well end up replacing Linux in many ways, and thus it's important to see that lots of people will probably see this.

For pete's sake, when you're debating and contemplating, don't start off with the assumption that the topic is inconsequential in the larger world.

JL!

hat if this Mascot becomes as famous/more famous than Tux the Penguin? I see him in papers and magazines all the time!

Tux is rare exception as it was attached to the "Next Big Thing (tm)" Linux. Unfortunately after the big splash Linux made a new Open Source UNIX variant is old news. Darwin will probabley end up more like the BSD's from wich it is based. And I have yet to hear any real complaints about the BSD Daemon who has been around much longer than Tux.

If Darwin is done well, it may very well end up replacing Linux in many ways, and thus it's important to see that lots of people will probably see this.

I seriously have doubts about this. The UNIX community is not terribley fond of Apple or Darwin. Many people in the Open-Source community have serious reservations about the AAPSL liscense that Darwin has been released under. And to be quite frank, most of the Linux community (being Windows refugees) have a deep seated hatred of all things Apple.

And after the reaction Apple got from the OSS community with the introduction of Darwin and the AAPSL, they have quietly stopped mentioning it.

On the other side, most users and the computer media will focus on OSX, as it will better suit their needs.

So chances are, Darwin will Be a development platform for OSX and a background server OS. While I am sure many cool things will be done with Darwin, they will appeal mostly to the UNIXy type people.

For pete's sake, when you're debating and contemplating, don't start off with the assumption that the topic is inconsequential in the larger world.

But what if it is? C'mon this is a mascot for the BACKEND of an operating system. Most people do not care at all about what goes on behind the scenes, let alone wether or not it has a mascot.

Hey,
Since we are already using Apple, we are already going to hell anyway. Apple, remember was the fruit that was the cause of the Original Sin. So, if you believe in that mumbo jumbo, change in mascot is not going to save you.