[milf]

I am interested in setting up a small wireless network in my apartment so that I can use my powerbook away from my desk. I have the powerbook with the built in airport functionality, so I just need to purchase a wireless router.

I'm wondering what my best investment would be. Should I go ahead and purchase the Apple product or would it be fine to save a little money and pick-up a Linksys (or some other company) product? Will quality suffer at all?

Anyone have any suggestions?

[ulmer]

I have used both a Linksys and Netgear wireless router with Apple airport cards and both have worked flawlessly. No need to spend extra on the airport base station. You should be able to find a decent wireless router for under $100. There are a lot of rebate and online deals out there right now...

[I Have Questions]

Originally posted by milf:

Anyone have any suggestions?

Yeah. Buy this.

[vmarks]

Hi,

this is a networking question, not a powerbook question.

Also, I just bought a SMC VWBR7004 wireless router / cable/dsl router with four port 10/100 switch - $50, compusa after rebates. I don't think there's anything else out there for that price.

[aaanorton]

Actually, I don't believe either the Linksys or the SMC (unless SMC has updated their firmware since I had one) can bridge AppleTalk on the wireless side of their routers. This means that it would be at best more difficult, at worst impossible to print to a networked printer with one of these. If wireless printing is something you'd be interested in doing now or in the future, I'd highly recommend a router that has AppleTalk bridging fully implemented.
Unfortunately, this is not a feature well advertised/documented either way, so you'll need to dig a little. I use an Asante model and all their routers deal with AppleTalk fine. In fact I have had absolutely zero problems with the unit I own, though they have since released a less expensive model since I bought it.

[JNI]

Actually, I don't believe either the Linksys or the SMC (unless SMC has updated their firmware since I had one) can bridge AppleTalk on the wireless side of their routers.

I've read a number of posts about AppleTalk issues with routers and am a bit concerned about it as I look to get a Wireless solution. I can't seem to find any good technical info on it. Most technical sites mention nothing about AT stuff because it is Mac specific in a PC dominated world.

If the router doesn't support AT bridging does this affect AFP (Apple file sharing)? I'll still be able to mount remote AFP shares even if the router doesn't support AT, right? Does it have anything to do with using AT over TCP/IP (e.g. will there be a problem using machines running System 8.x?)

Any links to real technical info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Don't get a linksys, they have poor range and no Mac support.

Get a netgear. Tons more options, they look better and cost less. I recomend the MR814.

AppleTalk is on the way out by Apple so you can't expect 3rd parties to support it.

[JNI]

I recomend the MR814

Do you know what the difference is between the MR814 and the MR314? They seem to have pretty much the same specs.

[ghporter]

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
Don't get a linksys, they have poor range and no Mac support.

Get a netgear. Tons more options, they look better and cost less. I recomend the MR814.

AppleTalk is on the way out by Apple so you can't expect 3rd parties to support it.

Actually the only thing Linksys doesn't support is AppleTalk. A Linksys router or wireless router uses a browser-based configuration system so you can set it up with any platform that has a browser-Linux, PC, Sun, even Tandy! Many companies offer this sort of platform-independent setup.

One thing I've noticed about Netgear products is that they have a habit of bringing out features a lot later than other companies. And while they have offered more options in some of their models, that's not always an indication that those options work for everyone... Please don't buy for looks! The shell is just something to keep dust off the chips-buy what's inside the box!

Based on a survey done by PC Magazine and recently published, most home and small office customers go with Linksys (over 1800 respondents versus just over 400 for the nearest competitor-Netgear), and they have good support and reliability numbers-beating out Netgear by a few percentage points.

My advice is to shop, shop, shop, and do the homework (including asking here!) for what you want and need. The only company I'd guide you away from is (amazingly) Cisco, since they seem to provide only spotty support for their consumer products and they have many more failures than the rest of the pack.

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
AppleTalk is on the way out by Apple so you can't expect 3rd parties to support it.

This means very little if you want to print now, as opposed to waiting for some time in the future for Apple to ditch AT. Why not buy from a company interested in supporting ALL standards? I have a HP LaserJet 6MP connected to my network. I can easily print to it from my iBook from anywhere in the house via my Asante router/AP.

I'm not sure how System 8.x handles AT, but I thought you needed 9.x to share over TCP/IP. I could be wrong. To add another layer of complexity... Most routers bridge AT fine on the wired side; it is only (mostly) the wireless connections that have problems. Even Linksys supports AT to wired computers. Makes you wonder why they don't just get over it and fully support it, no?

[milf]

I am interested in being able to print using the wireless device that I will eventually purchase (which one..not sure yet). Am I correct in saying that in order to print over a wireless connection, the router must support AT over wireless communications? I'm new to the Mac and still need to read up on various Apple technologies.

For those of you that have mentioned Asante products, I see that they have models that support printer sharing, but it doesn't say anything about sharing over wireless means.

Still in search for the best wireless solution...thanks for the help though. Maybe the Apple product is the best solution...?

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally posted by JNI:

Do you know what the difference is between the MR814 and the MR314? They seem to have pretty much the same specs.

No idea, dig around the netgear site.

[ghporter]

Originally posted by milf:
I am interested in being able to print using the wireless device that I will eventually purchase (which one..not sure yet). Am I correct in saying that in order to print over a wireless connection, the router must support AT over wireless communications? I'm new to the Mac and still need to read up on various Apple technologies.

For those of you that have mentioned Asante products, I see that they have models that support printer sharing, but it doesn't say anything about sharing over wireless means.

Still in search for the best wireless solution...thanks for the help though. Maybe the Apple product is the best solution...?

How you print depends on your printer and the wireless equipment you get. If you have a USB printer, I don't think you need AppleTalk to share it. Additionally, not all manufacturers' wireless products support all protocols-I've heard of early SMC boxes that would route AppleTalk on the wired side but not the wireless side. In shopping you need to look for GUARANTEES that what you need is supported, and don't be shy in calling a manufacturer's tech support and asking straight out. If they don't know, or worse don't know what you're talking about, run!

Linksys doesn't actively support AppleTalk, for example, but at least they point out that their software and functionality primarily supports WinOSs. Doesn't mean you can't use them with Macs, but some of their devices need driver or config programs that only run on the Windows platform.

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by milf:
I am interested in being able to print using the wireless device that I will eventually purchase (which one..not sure yet). Am I correct in saying that in order to print over a wireless connection, the router must support AT over wireless communications? I'm new to the Mac and still need to read up on various Apple technologies.

For those of you that have mentioned Asante products, I see that they have models that support printer sharing, but it doesn't say anything about sharing over wireless means.

Still in search for the best wireless solution...thanks for the help though. Maybe the Apple product is the best solution...?

Glenn brings up a good point: If your going to print to a shared inkjet (connected via USB to another computer), you won't need AT support. If you want to have a networked laser printer or (I'd imagine) an inkjet with a wireless print server, you're gonna want AT.
Sharing files and, of course, the internet over an Asante router is just assumed, I guess. It works very well with both wired and wireless clients. It also allows MAC address filtering. I have never had a single problem with my router. I thought it needed a reset once, but I was wrong.
I think the Airports are too expensive and less feature rich. The Asantes cost a little more than some of the other 3rd party competitors, but still way less than Airport. Call Asante tech support, they'll answer any questions and explain things for you.
It's important to remember that all this confusion over this issue stems from manufacturers selling 802.11b products, which by definition should support AT, but don't. Do a quick search of this forum only and see how many threads debate this. With all this misunderstanding from just this one web site, you'd have to assume that Linksys (for example) gets many, many calls to tech support from users who can't get their AP to route AT (as it quite simply should). All the effort that has been put into just acknowledging the fact that they don't support AT alone would have long ago paid for some developers to write the stinkin code and implement it. I mean this is AppleTalk we're talking about here: the basis for network printing (and sharing) for 25 million users around the world. I prefer to support companies that understand this.

[CheesePuff]

AHHH! Linksys! My eyes!!

Get a NetGear MR314.. has a small fan that you can not hear to make sure the unit stays cool, unlike my Linksys which overheated and died. I also don't have to reset this all the time, never has had any problems for the 6 months I have had it running 24/7, serving 5 computers.

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by CheesePuff:
AHHH! Linksys! My eyes!!

Get a NetGear MR314.. has a small fan that you can not hear to make sure the unit stays cool, unlike my Linksys which overheated and died. I also don't have to reset this all the time, never has had any problems for the 6 months I have had it running 24/7, serving 5 computers.

Does it bridge AppleTalk on both wired and wireless connections?

[milf]

As always, there is more research to be done...I just need a quick solution.

Regarding the printer, I'll look into whether or not AT is needed for what I am trying to accomplish. I know that the printer I am using could be configured through USB, but it is currently hooked up to my PC (ewww) through the parallel port. I just want a solution that will allow me to use the printer with my laptop without having to unhook it from the PC and hook it to my powerbook.

Can anyone tell me if I can connect to a Windows printer through OS X and a wireless connection?

I'm going to do more research on AT...that'll probably answer many of my questions.

Thanks for the info everyone.

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by milf:
Regarding the printer, I'll look into whether or not AT is needed for what I am trying to accomplish. I know that the printer I am using could be configured through USB, but it is currently hooked up to my PC (ewww) through the parallel port. I just want a solution that will allow me to use the printer with my laptop without having to unhook it from the PC and hook it to my powerbook.

Can anyone tell me if I can connect to a Windows printer through OS X and a wireless connection?

That's basically printer sharing. While it may be possible in OS X to Windows, I don't believe it's a published feature.
You may want to look into a wireless print server. Check out PracticallyNetworked.

[ghporter]

Originally posted by milf:
...but it is currently hooked up to my PC (ewww) through the parallel port. ...

Now that's a bit of info that can make all the difference! There are a LOT of routers on the market that offer a parallel printer port-Asante, SMC, 3-Com and USRobotics come to mind immediately. All of these use a browser-based configuration system within the box itself, so it doesn't matter what platform you're using.

Find a number of wireless routers with print servers online (including the Asante, SMC, etc.) then look for reviews to see whether or not you like them. Pay attention to whether they mention printing performance-my wired USRobotics 8000A (made by the same people who make the Asante and SMC product) has a V...E...R...Y... S...L...O...W network print server!

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by GHPorter:
Now that's a bit of info that can make all the difference! There are a LOT of routers on the market that offer a parallel printer port-Asante, SMC, 3-Com and USRobotics come to mind immediately. All of these use a browser-based configuration system within the box itself, so it doesn't matter what platform you're using.

Find a number of wireless routers with print servers online (including the Asante, SMC, etc.) then look for reviews to see whether or not you like them. Pay attention to whether they mention printing performance-my wired USRobotics 8000A (made by the same people who make the Asante and SMC product) has a V...E...R...Y... S...L...O...W network print server!

You'll still have the same AppleTalk problem, however. If the router doesn't bridge AT from a wireless client, it will not be able to route print jobs to the printer port any better than to another ethernet port.
You may want to try plugging the printer into the printer port and try printing via IP instead of AT. This is a little more dicey to set up, but not that difficult. You may also find it to be a little less reliable and yes, slower.
Again, having known AT support might help.

[ghporter]

Sorry I wasn't clearer: these network print servers use IP printing-you don't need AppleTalk for this; CUPS takes care of it (in OS X.xx, of course). There are also network printing tricks for older OSs, like those discussed on this page at Cornell.

[proux]

Got a SMC VWBR7004 here, updated with the last 1.20 firmware. Works great with 3 wired and 2 wireless connection, one USB shared printer. All macs. There is no need for AppleTalk for such a setup.

Got it for $60 with rebates, really cheap compared to an Apple Basestation. The router works great, but rarely it will not share the internet connection to the network (wired and wireless) although file sharing still works. Hopefully next firmware will solve that. Setup was a breeze as well as Mac support.

Good luck

[ghporter]

Originally posted by proux:
Got a SMC VWBR7004 here... The router works great, but rarely it will not share the internet connection to the network (wired and wireless) although file sharing still works. Hopefully next firmware will solve that. Setup was a breeze as well as Mac support.

Good luck

If you have a DSL connection, there's probably a simple setting in the SMC box that could help you not lose your Internet connection. Look for something like "Connect on Demand" or "Keep Alive" in the setup. I have "Keep Alive" enabled on my Linksys with a redial period of 180 seconds (as recommended by Linksys), and I ALWAYS have an Internet connection.

[proux]

It is Cable modem so should stay on all the time. Haven't found that "keep alive" function, only thing is "lease time". Oh well, it seems to happen less lately... Thanks

[robot prom]

Proux,

I'm having the same problem as you with my SMC 7004VWBR. I have to do a hard reset every couple of days. It's driving me up the wall. It also doesn't support Appletalk, which is a major minus since my printer can't be configured with an IP, it's appearently only an Appletalk printer because of the ethernet to serial port adapter I have on it.

Anyway, the SMC is going on ebay soon, I'm getting a Orinoco to replace it. They look stupid, but work.

[Avon]

If you want appletalk, Asante makes wireless routers with documented appletalk support. Get one ot thoes. 120$