[veryniceguy2002]

I am thinking of getting a cable modem service for my Macs. I would like to know that I already have an AirPort Base Station (1st gen Platium), do I still need a get a hardware router so that the connection can be shared with a few Macs connected together using an rthernet switch? Also, do I need to get a hardware firewall for my own security??

[dreilly1]

Originally posted by veryniceguy2002:
I am thinking of getting a cable modem service for my Macs. I would like to know that I already have an AirPort Base Station (1st gen Platium), do I still need a get a hardware router so that the connection can be shared with a few Macs connected together using an rthernet switch?

Well, since you have a first-gen ABS, you probably have only one ethernet port on it. You could use it to share connections with your wireless and your wired computers, but all the traffic would have to go through that one port, which isn't the best way to do things.

You can use only the 1st-gen ABS to share the connection, but I would recommend getting a hardware router anyway. Use the hardware router to share the connection with all of your wired computers and AirPort, and use AirPort to further share your connection among all the wireless computers.

Or, get a newer ABS with two ethernet ports. Then, you can connect one to the Cable Modem and the other to your hub, and do everything without sharing the connection twice.

Also, do I need to get a hardware firewall for my own security??

Most of these hardware routers (including the ABS) provide some level of security simply because they're dumb boxes that won't respond to connection attempts. That doesn't mean that you're 100% in the clear, but it does mean that using one of these devices as a firewall would be good enough for home use.

Also, if you are concerned about security, the easiest thing you can do is turn the computer off (or put it to sleep) when you're not using it! A hacker can't hack into a computer that is powered down...

[aaanorton]

The problem with the Airport Base Station (ABS) you have is that it has only one ethernet port. You could keep using this if ALL your computers had 802.11b (Airport) cards. I'm guessing they don't, though. Currently, you probably have a phone cord running from the ABS' modem jack to the wall. With cable (or DSL) service, you'll need to plug the cable/DSL modem into the ethernet port.
So, to answer your question, no... you can't keep using that ABS for your network. The good news is that since you bought that, many other manufacturers have jumped on the 802.11b bandwagon. This has driven prices down dramatically. The new Airport Extreme Base Stations (AEBS) are better, stronger, faster and cheaper. And you can also buy something like the Netgear MR814 for as little as 49 bucks, including shipping! This is a wireless router (just like the ABS) that also has ethernet ports built in for connecting wired machines. So this (or something like it) could replace both your ABS and switch.
Security wise, having a hardware device between your computer and the internet is very good and the solution used by most informed broadband users. This combined with the fact that you're on a Mac should let you sleep well.

[veryniceguy2002]

Originally posted by aaanorton:
The problem with the Airport Base Station (ABS) you have is that it has only one ethernet port. You could keep using this if ALL your computers had 802.11b (Airport) cards. I'm guessing they don't, though. Currently, you probably have a phone cord running from the ABS' modem jack to the wall. With cable (or DSL) service, you'll need to plug the cable/DSL modem into the ethernet port.

You are spot on for that!

So, to answer your question, no... you can't keep using that ABS for your network.

But then can't I plug the ethernet output from the cable modem my ethernet switch, and then all my computers and AirPort base station also connected to the ethernet switch?

The good news is that since you bought that, many other manufacturers have jumped on the 802.11b bandwagon. This has driven prices down dramatically. The new Airport Extreme Base Stations (AEBS) are better, stronger, faster and cheaper. And you can also buy something like the Netgear MR814 for as little as 49 bucks, including shipping! This is a wireless router (just like the ABS) that also has ethernet ports built in for connecting wired machines. So this (or something like it) could replace both your ABS and switch.

Does it support AppleTalk as well? Also, with those PC-focused manufacturer's products can it be managed easily from a Mac?

Security wise, having a hardware device between your computer and the internet is very good and the solution used by most informed broadband users. This combined with the fact that you're on a Mac should let you sleep well.

Your advice has been very good! Thanks aaanorton!!

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by veryniceguy2002:
But then can't I plug the ethernet output from the cable modem my ethernet switch, and then all my computers and AirPort base station also connected to the ethernet switch?

That's putting the cart before the horse. You see, the ABS performs routing, NAT. This reads the incoming packets and delivers the info to the appropriate machine or port. If the switch was in front, none of the info would get routed properly.

Does it support AppleTalk as well? Also, with those PC-focused manufacturer's products can it be managed easily from a Mac?

No AppleTalk (AT) support. There are only a handfull of devices that bridge AT from ethernet to wireless (and back), besides the ABS/AEBS. I have one that does. It's an Asante FR3002AL. Since I bought this, they've come out with a more economical version, the FR1004AL. AT is cool, cuz it makes setting up a printer stupid-simple. Truthfully, though, OS X makes it pretty easy to do this without it too. I've done both ways. They're both simple.
Just about every router out there gets configured through a web browser. You'd have to look hard for one that still has a Windows app only. You just plug it in and go to address in, say Safari. You log in (password supplied in literature) and up comes a config page, usually with tabs for the different config pages. Simple.

[veryniceguy2002]

Originally posted by aaanorton:
That's putting the cart before the horse. You see, the ABS performs routing, NAT. This reads the incoming packets and delivers the info to the appropriate machine or port. If the switch was in front, none of the info would get routed properly.

No AppleTalk (AT) support. There are only a handfull of devices that bridge AT from ethernet to wireless (and back), besides the ABS/AEBS. I have one that does. It's an Asante FR3002AL. Since I bought this, they've come out with a more economical version, the FR1004AL. AT is cool, cuz it makes setting up a printer stupid-simple. Truthfully, though, OS X makes it pretty easy to do this without it too. I've done both ways. They're both simple.
Just about every router out there gets configured through a web browser. You'd have to look hard for one that still has a Windows app only. You just plug it in and go to address in, say Safari. You log in (password supplied in literature) and up comes a config page, usually with tabs for the different config pages. Simple.

I read the datasheet for both FR3002AL and FR1004AL, and for the FR3002AL (which is the one aaanorton has) it has no reference of AppleTalk, whereas FR1004AL there is a reference of AppleTalk Interesting to see there's a parallel printer port for both models. Can a Mac print to a Parallel port printer (and how?)

The retail price of FR1004AL in Australia is A$364 (US$184) and AirPort Extreme base station w/o modem cost $399 (US$201), so the price is not a big difference...

Does anyone know of any other wireless router which can do AppleTalk to wireless?

The other way I am interested to know is what is the actually range can be archived from these Asante routers?? Can it be going from one (concrete) floor of the house to another floor?

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by veryniceguy2002:
I read the datasheet for both FR3002AL and FR1004AL, and for the FR3002AL (which is the one aaanorton has) it has no reference of AppleTalk, whereas FR1004AL there is a reference of AppleTalk Interesting to see there's a parallel printer port for both models. Can a Mac print to a Parallel port printer (and how?)

AT is basically assumed at Asante. Maybe that's why there's no mention. But I can verify, as I'm using it right now, that the 3002 handles AT okey-dokey. One of the reasons I bought from Asante is that they ACTIVELY persue and support Mac users. Most other manufac's. DO NOT. I think D-Link bridges AT, though I've never used one and only on certain models. It's much easier naming routers that don't do this: Netgear, SMC, Linksys, etc.
Printing to a parallel port requires IP Printing. It's a little trickier than AT to set up, but certainly not difficult. No parallel port will support AT.

The retail price of FR1004AL in Australia is A$364 (US$184) and AirPort Extreme base station w/o modem cost $399 (US$201), so the price is not a big difference...

The other way I am interested to know is what is the actually range can be archived from these Asante routers?? Can it be going from one (concrete) floor of the house to another floor?

Well, you can get an AEBS with a USB printer sharing port which could be cool, if you have a supported printer and all you computer are on OS X.
My 3002 covers both floors of my house. Coverage area is very site-specific. Local interference can be an unforseen problem.

[aaanorton]

On a vaguely related topic, this was just posted at MacFixIt.com:

We recently received a letter from a MacFixIt reader who complained that NetGear, a manufacturer of networking hardware, requires that Mac users pay an additional support fee in order to access the advertised 24/7 technical support:

"Netgear, makers of routers, ethernet hubs and the like, says on all six sides of their boxes that they provide '24/7 free technical support.' It turns out that this is true only for PC owners. I called with a question about my new router and was told (by three people) that, since I am a Mac owner, there would be a charge of $ 2.00 per minute or $ 30.00 per incident.

"They have no such thing as 'free 24/7 technical support' for the Mac. Of course, I read all the documentation and no mention of this was made anywhere."

NetGear's Web site says that the firm offers free 24x7 support on all products, covering Basic Installation, Hardware installation, Driver installation, Basic product configuration, and verification of installation and network connectivity.

This is pathetic. I am of the opinion that companies that act like these asses do not deserve my money. I'd rather support a co. like Asante, for the reasons I touched on above. It's too bad, too, because Netgear has a great product at an awesome price. Granted, these things are stupid-simple to set up, but this policy is simply gratuitous and unacceptable.

[veryniceguy2002]

Originally posted by aaanorton:

Well, you can get an AEBS with a USB printer sharing port which could be cool, if you have a supported printer and all you computer are on OS X.
My 3002 covers both floors of my house. Coverage area is very site-specific. Local interference can be an unforseen problem.

Well, you are right. One of my computer still runs OS 9, and I still have a legacy HP Deskjet printer which has a AppleTalk (localTalk) and parallel port. So Airport Extreme Base Station might not be suitable for me

Thanks for your advice, aaanorton!!

[veryniceguy2002]

Originally posted by aaanorton:
AT is basically assumed at Asante. Maybe that's why there's no mention. But I can verify, as I'm using it right now, that the 3002 handles AT okey-dokey. One of the reasons I bought from Asante is that they ACTIVELY persue and support Mac users. Most other manufac's. DO NOT. I think D-Link bridges AT, though I've never used one and only on certain models. It's much easier naming routers that don't do this: Netgear, SMC, Linksys, etc.

Well I sent a few emails to a few vendors/distributors in Australia about the AppleTalk support with their wireless router, and I got some interesting comments:

Netgear (re: Netgear router MR-314):


Yes, the MR314 supports AppleTalk. There is a section in the manual that details how to setup the MR314 for MAC's. AppleTalk is enabled by default.

Well, Netgear does support AppleTalk!!! Their prices seems to be very good value for money (given it's metal case)

D-Link:


The Access Point work on the second layer of OSI model, e.g. Data-link
layer.It means, that it can transfer any layer 3 protocol over, being it
TCP/IP or AppleTalk.

This is a very interesting comment! I would be interested to know which other brands (or does it mean every brand?) would implement on the second layer of OSI model, making is AppleTalk compatible?

Asante (re: Asante router FR-1004AL):

The router will not pass Appletalk to the internet (WAN) side if the router - as this is IP routing ONLY.
The built-in 4 port 10/100 switch and the Wireless BaseStation will support all protocols including AppleTalk - so you can seemlessly work with IEEE802.11b 11Mb capable Desktop or Laptop computers, note the new Apple 12" and 17" Powerbooks use a built-in 'G' wireless protocol which is not compatible.
The Asante routers can be configured from any computer with a Web Browser - so yes it can be configured from a Mac with OS9 or OSX

Sounds like Asante one does the job for me. I am cerious if there is any router that can route AppleTalk signal to the net (that requires my cable provider support AppleTalk, wouldn't it??)

I have also found an US Macworld article review on wireless router (a little old, but it's quite an interesting review):

http://www.macworld.com/2002/07/reviews/routers/

The other considering is, should I get AirPort extreme base station instead???

Printing to a parallel port requires IP Printing. It's a little trickier than AT to set up, but certainly not difficult. No parallel port will support AT.

Would a PC be able to print to the printer connected to the router using the Windows driver of that printer from the original manufacturer?

Well, you can get an AEBS with a USB printer sharing port which could be cool, if you have a supported printer and all you computer are on OS X.
My 3002 covers both floors of my house. Coverage area is very site-specific. Local interference can be an unforseen problem.

There was a very interesting comment from the Asante distributor regarding my problem on two storey house:

With ANY wireless device it is best to position the Base Station in an area that will give greatest coverage for the rest of the house that needs to communicate from. eg. the best place to put a Wireless Base Station in a 2 storey house is in the stair well. The Best thing about the Asante FR3004AL is that the Arials are detachable, and other arials with greater dB Gain could be used, or an extention cable added. Althought Asante do not supply these, I have been told that it can be done as the arial attatches via a common connector

Sounds like if I get the Asante one, I might be able to get an extension cord and move the antenna a little closer to the centre of my house

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by veryniceguy2002:
Netgear (re: Netgear router MR-314):


Yes, the MR314 supports AppleTalk. There is a section in the manual that details how to setup the MR314 for MAC's. AppleTalk is enabled by default.

Well, Netgear does support AppleTalk!!! Their prices seems to be very good value for money (given it's metal case)

First of all, the 314 has been replaced by the MR814, WHICH DOES NOT BRIDGE AT. I know it was very difficult to find a 314 for a while there. I don't know if they're still available. I would also get a second confirmation (over the phone) about AT support. I was told by Netgear that their products DO NOT BRIDGE AT. Period. Somebody is wrong. Unless the email you received referred to only the wired side being supported. There are a lot of routers out there that do this. AT works fine on any wired machine, but does not get bridged to/from wireless connections. Utterly lame.

D-Link:


The Access Point work on the second layer of OSI model, e.g. Data-link
layer.It means, that it can transfer any layer 3 protocol over, being it
TCP/IP or AppleTalk.

This is a very interesting comment! I would be interested to know which other brands (or does it mean every brand?) would implement on the second layer of OSI model, making is AppleTalk compatible?

They just don't do it. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever (technically) for these companies to not bridge AT. But they do not do it. This sort of thing makes me angry enough to pay more for a product from a company that takes my needs seriously.

Asante (re: Asante router FR-1004AL):...I am cerious if there is any router that can route AppleTalk signal to the net (that requires my cable provider support AppleTalk, wouldn't it??)

Why would you want this?

The other considering is, should I get AirPort extreme base station instead???

They are very nice. I think they offer two compelling features: USB printer sharing and wireless bridging.

Would a PC be able to print to the printer connected to the router using the Windows driver of that printer from the original manufacturer?

Yup.

The Best thing about the Asante FR3004AL is that the Arials are detachable, and other arials with greater dB Gain could be used, or an extention cable added. Althought Asante do not supply these, I have been told that it can be done as the arial attatches via a common connector

Sounds like if I get the Asante one, I might be able to get an extension cord and move the antenna a little closer to the centre of my house

I don't know what this is about. It sounds to me like this person was actually talking about the FR1004AL, which has external antennas. I have the FR3002AL, but I've never heard of the FR3004 at all. Anyway, the FR1004 unit looks nice. I do like the external, antennas, though I've never used them. I've read that they can make a big difference.

[veryniceguy2002]

I am happy to say that I have bought an Asante FR1004AL wireless router. Plug it into my cable modem and my Macs, and after 5 minutes of "looking around" the web based admin utility, everything is working as well.

The only surprise I had was that when I try to order the Asante router through the AppleCentre the salesperson try to coinvence me that "Asante is pretty bad in their products" and try ro get me to buy an Apple Extreme base station instead... It's very bizarre that Asante's distributor in Australia pointed me to order it from Apple dealers, yet the Apple dealers (not sure whether they pressured by Apple or other factors) try to push Apple basr stations instead...

Anyway, a very happy Asante router user now and my old Apple graphite base station is currently sitting idle, unplugged from my network and power already