[Zim]

Ok, not to incite a potential flame war, but I am trying to educate myself about possibly getting a laptop instead of just upgrading my desktop... and keep the desktop, use it as a file server, and still as my main workhorse, but have the flexibility with the laptop to move around the house yard.

I have a cable modem, going directly to my ethernet jack right now (only one machine) and am trying to understand what it will mean to go to 2 machines on the one cable modem.

Obviously? I need a router. I could put the router in the normal place (after the cable modem), or potentially get a wireless ethernet card for my desktop and run the laptop thru that as a gateway? (might be simpler that way given my limited amt of desires for what I want the laptop for).

IF I go the more standard way, I would insert a router after the cable modem, in front of my Mac(s). For a laptop I'd want wireless, which immediately scream out "Airport"... but an airport seems to be ~$200? and I thought wireless routers were much closer down to ~$60?? What does an Airport offer me that the other box does not?

As I run a webserver at home, and mail, I'd need to set up some sort of port-forwarding to my desktop (one reason to do the gateway option instead). I've worked in the router business (high end) for several years, so I have more than a passing familiarity the general way much of this works, just have not had to actually "use" it myself. Also very comfortable in unix, setting my own ipfw rules, etc.

Anyway, very preliminary investigation here. Would appreciate any insights/advice.

Thanks,
Mike

[aaanorton]

First, you might want to head over to the Networking forum, as you'll find more pertinent info there.
Get a wireless router... You'll get much more flexibility, features, stability and security. You'll need to decide between 802.11b and 802.11g, the two wireless standards for Macs. While b is slower, it is still MUCH faster than any internet connection, so it will not slow you down surfing and D/Ling. B also seems to be more stable than g. If you plan on transferring LOTS of LARGE files between your own computers across wireless, then maybe g would be good for you.
You'll also find that b is cheaper. At buy.com, you can get the Netgear MR814 for 20 bucks. How could you possibly go wrong at that price?

[Zim]

True, the Networking forum would prob be much better... could some kindly admin move it?

Cheers,
Mike

[BobW]

Get a wireless router. I have a Netgear 814, also has 4 wired ports. Check http://www.dealmac.com. I saw this router for about $20.00 after rebates. I paid $49.00 for mine a couple months ago.

[Zim]

Now that I'm in the right forum (thanks!), might anyone want to comment about how I hook this up if I want the Powerbook only as a "portable client" (for surfing and accessing my main Powermac as a file server?)

ie. for this reason and the sake of maintaining my simple set up now, would this justify trying to use my existing Mac as a gateway, instead of inserting a router (and having to do NAT/PAT to preserve my external/remote access)

Or is that idea just silly?

Thanks,
Mike

[John Strung]

Trying to set up your existing Mac as a gateway will cause nothing but headaches as well as creating a security risk. Get a router.

Connect modem to router. Router (by wires) to desktop. Wireless or Airport card in portable. Portable will then be able to share the internet and file share with desktop through the wireless router.

[Kenstee]

Originally posted by aaanorton:
At buy.com, you can get the Netgear MR814 for 20 bucks. How could you possibly go wrong at that price?

The deal at Buy.com is over. Now $32.99 after rebate.

Go to Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...s&n=507846
and get it for $27.24 after the $20 rebate.

BTW, this thing is a real workhorse. I live in a 3 story brownstone buiding with very thick walls and ceilings. The MR 814 I have in the basement - which I have configured as a WAP - gives me 3 bars even on the second floor. Very impressive!

[frozentundra]

Hello

I have the exact set-up that you are talking about.

I have 2 desktop machines and several laptops using airport. I am using a 802.11b Airport station. This has been rock solid and was very easy to set-up. All things considered it seems that there are many options available at lower prices.

I have my cable modem connected to my airport and the airport is connected to my 10/100 Asante switch. All of my desktop machines and printers are available via ethernet and my laptops can connect to my server and printer via airport.

Ethernet is much faster when working with large files over the network. I would love to upgrade to an airport extreme and put on an extra antenna on to boot. Its impossible to have to much range. I would recommend that you look into what the range is of the your potential units, if you want to connect from outside.

What Powerbook do you have?

I have a Titanium 667 and it has a terrible internal antenna. It has almost no range. I also have several ibooks tha I can go anywhere in the house and outside.

I will be upgrading to a new Powerbook with airport extreme card .

[Zim]

No portable.. yet... this is just an "exploratory" learning question as to what I could do.

I would want to buy a laptop that is "enough" for carrying around the house for browsing, and file editting, *maybe* some gaming. Also something I could take on trips and out to wi-fi "hotspots".

I suppose I could get around needing a DVD drive by ripping movies first (on my desktop). My experience with PC laptops suggests that the DVD drive sucks the batteries dry, so watching the movie from HD might be a good move there.

Major concern tho is preserving the easy remote access I have right now to my desktop machine (its directly hooked to cable modem).

Mike

[frozentundra]

Regarding DVD sucking your battery dry. I use my DVD drive when traveling and sure it drains my battery but there is always some place to plug in and get a quick boost between flights. A second battery is an obvious help.

I cant imagine wasting my time ripping DVD's to save power.

You will find with a laptopit is easy to plug the power chord in when you get to a location. Hotel, meeting room, office, ect.

When your about the house or yard or floating on your boat you probably won't be watching DVD's you will be working or playing on the internet. I also use my Powerbook in the car for my kids to watch DVDs, I have never drained a battery before the movie finished. Now a second movie would be a problem. A car adapter would eliminate any power problems

Another point a friend made when he was contemplating Ripping DVDs, you would have to make a consious decision regarding what you are going to watch vs grabbing a handful of DVD's

I am not sure what limitaion you would have regarding remote access to your desktop if you had an airport inline.

[Zim]

For remote access, just thinking the laptop hanging off my main desktop (as a gateway) would preserve a working set up and _possibly_ save me the trouble of setting up all the port-forwarding of a router (since I'd be on private IP space behind the router) since I'd never want to remotely access the laptop.. it would really only be a "client" box when at home.

Mike

[frozentundra]

Hello

I really did not have to do any big time configuration to get my network up and working. All of my laptops and desktop connect using DHCP.

I used this doc http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93251 to design my network. I also stopped by my local Apple Store and went over the fine details but it really came down to plug it in and config the base station to see my provider and set my Mac's to DHCP and life has been good ever since.


Later,
FT

[pliny]

So what's the difference between a wireless router and an airport base station?

A wireless router from netgear or linksys is just a wireless router with 4 hardwired lan ports. The airport is a wireless router, a wireless print server, and a wireless v.90 modem.

The airport combines in one unit features that if bought separately cost more or just about the same. There are differences in the number of ports of course.

BTW Netgear has better customer support and more Mac-friendly documentation. Linksys is awful on both counts. Netgear routers are also better engineered. Airport has the best customer support and Mac friendly documentation.

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by Zim:
For remote access, just thinking the laptop hanging off my main desktop (as a gateway) would preserve a working set up and _possibly_ save me the trouble of setting up all the port-forwarding of a router (since I'd be on private IP space behind the router) since I'd never want to remotely access the laptop.. it would really only be a "client" box when at home.

Seriously, don't even consider this. This saves you NOTHING and opens the door for many possible problems. You'd probably pay more for a 2nd NIC than the wireless router. There is no advantage to using your desktop as a gateway over a router.

[brettcamp]

I can recommend the asante router I got on sale for $60 last month. Said to be a very mac-friendly company, and the instructions were mostly understandable even to newtworkinging newbies like me.

[Zim]

LOL, ok ok, I give up on the gateway option

Hmm, I don't need the modem option. If I went just "wireless router", how do people handle USB printer sharing? (If I left my Epson C60 on my desktop as it is now)

Any opinions on the SMC Barricade™ Wireless Cable/DSL Broadband Router (SMC7004VWBR) (on dealmac.com... $19.99 after rebates at CompUSA)

Thanks everyone,
Mike

[Charles Reader]

I just got off the phone with the SMC support people and I have to say it was a very impleasant experience. First off, I liked the router itself a lot. The web interface was very nice and it was easy to configure. The network I was connecting it to has 2 Macs connected via 10baseT, 2 connected via 802.11b and an HP1220 connected to the router with a HP JetDirect 175. All the computer were able to surf the web, get email and 1 of the wired computers and the 2 wireless computers were able to connect to the file server on the other wired Mac. However the wireless computers were unable to see the HP1220 on the network, whereas the ones that were wired could see it and print to it.

The old XSense XRouter had no problem sharing the printer on both networks, so I'm pretty sure it's a problem with the SMC rounter not passing the AppleTalk packets on the wireless side. (I found a similar problem with a Belkin router several weeks ago and they're working on a firmware upgrade to address the problem. Asante had a similar router on sale last week and they're working on a firmware upgrade to address the problem. Due out in 4/04...)

I went to the SMC website, looked up the router-SMC7004VWBR-and saw there were several firmware upgrades for the router. I downloaded both of the upgrade, applied the first one and tried to apply the 2nd one, but was unsuccessful due to "...a bad firmware upgrade..." So I called SMC to find out what I was doing wrong. The person who took my call explained to me-after some prodding-that there are actually 2 different SMC routers with that model number. In order to tell the difference between the two you have to look at the Supplier Part No. on the bottom of the box. The 2nd upgrade is for the old version of the router and apparently I have the newer version. Of course it doesn't say anything on the website that I could see, nor in the ReadMe file included with the driver.

I won't bore you with most of the details of the next 30 minutes. They felt the problem I was having was due to improper settings on the wireless computers really didn't want to hear what I had to say regarding how the network DID work with the XSense router in place of the SMC. Or how their competitors were having similar problems but working on them. Based on this experience I would NOT buy SMC products. The router I have is going back tomorrow.

[John Strung]

My recollection from discussions elsewhere is that the older SMC routers, like the 7004AWBR supported AppleTalk, but the newer ones do not.

Have you tried printing to your HP printer using TCP/IP instead? Search the Apple Knowledge Base for "LPR" for instructions on how to do so. Since the HP supports postscript, you should be able to print to it using TCP/IP by using the Laserwriter 8 driver in OS 9 or using by OS X.

[John Strung]

P.S. in order to make LPR printing work, you will have to follow the instructions for your JetDirect to set its IP address to a fixed IP address on the same subnet as your router, but out of the range used by the router's DCHP server.