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luckyjoe · Feb 25, 2005, 01:57 PM

I should mention that these symptoms developed AFTER the wizbangs at an Apple Store reformatted-HD/reinstalled-OSX in attempt to cure a battery problem(!).

So now, I have to *join* my Airport network after every few boot cycles. Not every boot, but every 2-3. It is also sluggish, and the connect/disconnect command under the nework name's drop-down menu is also missing occasionally. The other weird thing is that the time-connected used to constantly display in the menubar, but now it expands from the Airport symbol to show the time for 5-10 seconds, then collapses for 5-10, then expands...

Is there a method to premanently rejoin the network? If so, why would my preveious attempts have failed? And what's with the quirky network software?

I know I'm leaving a lot of variables open, but I'm looking to see if these symptoms are indicative of a larger problem (as well as trying to find solutions short of a reformat).

I may reformat the HD myself anyway, to correct other issues from the genius bar incident, at which time I'll start fresh with the Airport. If I do this, is there a Hard Reset for the Airport? Or shoould I leave the AP base alone and focus on my HD?

Regards,

Tom P.

Detrius · Feb 26, 2005, 01:05 AM

Apple menu, system preferences, network, airport, and then the airport tab as well. By default, join: 'A specific network.' Fill in the rest. You will be connected at the login window. Works wonders on OS X Server. BTW, these steps are with 10.3. It will be similar with older OSes, but it's still there.

Detrius · Feb 26, 2005, 01:09 AM

Also, you only have to have something like a 130 IQ or higher to be considered a genius. I wonder if Apple does IQ tests for the genius bar. Keep in mind, though, that effectiveness here isn't about IQ--it's a combination of how much you know and how creative you are at solving problems.

luckyjoe · Mar 7, 2005, 07:58 AM

Detrius,

OK, I joined my network per you instructions. However, I still have very slow response, and erratic/inconsistant network options. For example:

- It's hit or miss for my network name to show up under the Airport icon in the menu bar.
- Sometime the network name shows up, but there is no drop-down menu from the network name (to connect/disconnect). If I select the name at this point, I get an message *error connecting to my network*.
- usually I have to go though Internet Connect or Airport Utility to connect/disconnect thru dial-up, but even here the presence of a connect/disconnect button is inconsistent (sometimes it's there, other times it's not).

Does any of this make sense or point to a larger problem? Software issue? Airport Extreme Base Station issue?

The base station was new in January '05. I set it up and it ran fine. Then get myiBook back from the genius bar and whammo.

It's frustrating to use, and I need to get it back to Apple-Simple for the rest of my family to use. Should I just do a clean install and start from scratch?

Regards,

Tom P.

Big Mac · 09:58 AM

I usually do not get the name of my network in the menu either. Wireless networks can be temperamental. Adding a specific network to join, as detailed by Detrius, has cured most of the problems I have had with reconnecting. When you do connect, is the connection at full strength? I would not know why you would have issues seeing the connect/disconnect button in Internet Connect - is the space where it is supposed to be just empty at times?

turtle777 · Mar 7, 2005, 11:21 AM

*sigh*

My Mac mini *NEVER* joins my wirless network automatically, even with the setting to join a specific network.
My iBook has no problems with it whatsoever. Go figure !

-t

luckyjoe · Mar 7, 2005, 02:29 PM

Yes, the button is simply missing. The other side of the window can even display connection status, but the button's just not there.

I can understand that wireless networks can be finicky. But I don't understand why everything was running OK, without these troubles, and now they are there (after the Apple Store reformat/install). I also noticed that I now have a later OSX version than my install/restore discs.

Tonight I'll boot from a HD-mirror that existed before the Store's reformat issue. I'll see if it has the same networking issues, or if they disappear...

One thing I learned through this, a 250gig external HD is a godsend!

Thanks,

Tom P.

turtle777 · 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Detrius:
You will be connected at the login window.

Are you sure ?

I tried to put my iBooks ~/Library folder on my Mac mini and have it boot over the Airport Network (using a symbolic link to the shared network location). No luck. I figured that the connection to the network is established AFTER the first seetings are retrieved from ~/Library, i.e. too late.

-t

turtle777 · Mar 8, 2005, 10:52 AM

After playing around with all settings until I almost went crazy, this is what's hapenning to me:

1) Wireless network w/o WEP encryption:
Both, my iBook (802.11b airport card) and my Mac mini (802.11g airport card) join automatically after reboot.

2) Wireless network with WEP encryption:
iBook joins after reboot ONLY if setting is on AUTOMATIC. Joining a specific network doesn't work !
Mac mini does not join automatically, not matter what setting (automatic or join specific).

Conclusion:
I blame my el-cheapo SMC Barricade wireless router. It seems like the WEP encryption causes the problems. I still don't understand why my iBook with an old Airport card would do it, and my mini with a new Airport card won't. It's beyond me...

-t

luckyjoe · Mar 10, 2005, 07:20 AM

Now, when I boot up, I get the *gray* Airport menu icon. If I wait patiently and click the icon, my network will show up in the menu. Select my network and the Icon then shows black reception waves. Drop the menu down again and I can select connect/disconnect from my network's drop-down menu - usually. There is still some delay or even absence of the drop down menu to connect via dial-up. I have two users on my iBook, and this is set up for both. Now the funny stuff...

It seems that if I am online for a while (hours...), I no longer get the drop down menu under my network's name (to select disconnect). This also happens when I am not online, and the iBook sleeps - when I wake it up there is no drop down menu under the network name. Also, in both of these situations I have to resort to internet connect, but this also occasionally does not display the connect/disconnect button(?).

And for the last laugh, now and then (no real pattern) after boot up, my network is not in the AP menu. I'll open Airport Utility, but still cannot find/join my network. So I have to open Airport Setup Assistant to rejoin an existing network! This is required whenever my network does not show up in the menu, or when the connect/disconnect button is missing (internet Connect), or when I cannot access the base station through the Airport Utility, or combinations of these events - Whew!

Could the update to the latest version of OSX (apple store) have caused some conflict with the base station software (that was setup while my iBook was runing an earlier (2004) version of OSX)?

Any thoughts or pointers?

Regards,

Tom P.

turtle777 · Mar 10, 2005, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by luckyjoe:
Could the update to the latest version of OSX (apple store) have caused some conflict with the base station software (that was setup while my iBook was runing an earlier (2004) version of OSX)?

Any thoughts or pointers?

I blame Apple's OS X, too.

I get identical problems, but far worse with my Mac mini than my iBook. I'm not using an Apple Basestation, but I'm not sure if this is an advantage or disadvantage.

-t

luckyjoe · Mar 14, 2005, 07:05 AM

So, the latest - it appears that whenever I have my external firewire drive, or the USB bluetooth adapter connected, I lose the ability to access the Airport fucntions from either the menu bar icon's drop-down menu, or through internet connect. The system ran fine for two days, connecting/disconnecting to/from the internet, sleeping the iBook, etc. However once I connected the external drive, I lost the menu selections. Disconnecting the drive and restarting the Airport Extreme Base station restored these functions, but later the same day the problem returend - this time without the external drive connected.

I doubt that this will ever get resolved. How can I deal with Apple supprt on this issue, when they constantly want to charge support fees even while the unit is under warranty?!

Regards,

Tom P.

turtle777 · Mar 14, 2005, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by luckyjoe:
I doubt that this will ever get resolved. How can I deal with Apple supprt on this issue, when they constantly want to charge support fees even while the unit is under warranty?!

Honestly, as much as I oppose the idea in general, but maybe a fresh install will fix something for you.

Maybe you can set up a fresh OS X on your external FW HD and see how that performs. Or, use Carbon Copy Cloner to make a backup of your existing system and do a fresh install.

-t

luckyjoe · Mar 14, 2005, 02:12 PM

>...maybe a fresh install will fix something for you.

Yeah, I know that is what I'll do next. Along with revert the AP base station do default and set-up from scratch. Just need to set aside enough time for the whole thing...

Thanks,

Tom P.

Detrius · Mar 16, 2005, 09:11 PM

Remember, when you set the WEP key, you have to put a 0x in front of it in the system preferences. Go figure. But that's the trick that worked for me perfectly on all of my machines. Prior to this, the computers only joined once a user was logged in.

luckyjoe · Mar 17, 2005, 08:15 AM

Detrius,

That's an interesting trick...

Even though I have set up the iBook to join my network, I still have to join manually after login. The Airport menu icon is grayed. Click on it to select my network, and the bars turn black. It never automatically joins even though I havs set it up to do so.

Something's still missing...

Tom P.

turtle777 · Mar 17, 2005, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by Detrius:
Remember, when you set the WEP key, you have to put a 0x in front of it in the system preferences. Go figure. But that's the trick that worked for me perfectly on all of my machines. Prior to this, the computers only joined once a user was logged in.

Thanks, Detrius. I'm gonna give this a try when I come home.

How come that Apple makes it that complicated ? WTF ?

-t

ghporter · Mar 17, 2005, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by turtle777:
Thanks, Detrius. I'm gonna give this a try when I come home.

How come that Apple makes it that complicated ? WTF ?

-t

Apple tried to make WEP simple-but only if all your computers and networking equipment wer Apple. Everybody else likes WEP keys to be hex, but Apple converts ASCII input into hex for you. Soooo...if you're using equipment from other vendors with a hex key, you have to tell the AirPort device to interpret the input as hex. You can either start the input with "zero, 'x'" (0x) or with a dollar sign ($) to indicate that the input is hex.

I don't know which versions of the AirPort Admin Utility have this, but the later ones appear to have a check box that tells the utility "this input is hex." Since I don't have an AirPort base (I'm using Linksys), I haven't investigated too far into this.

One final thing: if all your equipment supports WPA, use it, not WEP. It's much stronger security and easier to set up, since EVERYBODY in the industry uses the same convention for "network passwords/passphrases."

turtle777 · Mar 17, 2005, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by ghporter:
One final thing: if all your equipment supports WPA, use it, not WEP. It's much stronger security and easier to set up, since EVERYBODY in the industry uses the same convention for "network passwords/passphrases."

Glenn,

I tried to use WPA, but I was not able to connect. Is that because I forgot to put the 0x in front of the password ?
Or does WPA not need that prefix ?

My router (SMC) is able to handle WPA. I am not sure what the conventions for WPA passwords are. Hex only ?

Thx,
-t