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rubber_duck · Jul 17, 2006, 02:56 PM

'ello, anyone care to recommend a good wireless router with ADSL modem built in and a decent firewall for a pair of powerbooks to share? and a windows machine (sigh). so far looking at netgear stuff but I'd rather buy linksys but they only seem to do routers without the modem. I'm running panther.

also, any recommendations for a wireless card for a titanium powerbook. the original airport cards go for silly money and the only thing I can find that will work is the belkin card bus thing. but everyone I know thinks belkin are pants!!! anyone tried the philips stuff?

TIA rubber_duck

tooki · Jul 18, 2006, 05:20 PM

I'd much sooner recommend a separate modem and router. The combined units are never quite as good, IMHO.

tooki

ghporter · Jul 18, 2006, 07:12 PM

Also, rubber duck you don't mention where you are (I'm assuming UK from your wording) or who your ISP is. Sometimes that makes a big difference. While combination modem/router devices are pretty common in the UK, they're uncommon here in the States-though most DSL modems here are indeed capable of being routers, albeit ONE port routers.

And given the choice, I'd choose separate boxes too. I have a separate modem, router, and wireless access point, and I just click along, while others with combination devices (like wireless routers) have noticably more problems.

Apfhex · Jul 18, 2006, 07:15 PM

Linksys does made modem/router combos... at least for cable, not sure about DSL. I'd follow tooki's recommendation that you get a separate modem and router.

tooki · Jul 19, 2006, 09:17 AM

Yes, cable modem/router combos are common (though terribly inadvisable), but DSL modem/router combos are rare at the consumer level. (At the midrange level, Netopia makes routers that have slots for internal modems and ports of every kind, including all the types of DSL -- but no wireless.)

tooki

rubber_duck · Jul 19, 2006, 01:58 PM

separate devices? wild man! makes sense. I'm using a speedtouch modem for now which was free and connects via USB so it's no use with a router. it feels cheap anyway! the last thing I want is a shitty net connection so I'll ditch the combo idea. hmmm, how come they did't tell me combos are bad in PCWorld?

yes, I'm in the UK. my ISP is Virgin.net - don't know if that makes any difference 'cos it all comes through British Telecom anyway?

thanks for the replies...

ghporter · Jul 19, 2006, 05:36 PM

Complain that your USB port died and you need an ethernet modem. Sometimes an ISP/vendor will swap because of this. But you're right, USB modems are useless for networking.

rubber_duck · Jul 19, 2006, 06:43 PM

hmmm, crafty! they might go for it!

f1000 · Jul 19, 2006, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by rubber_duck

separate devices? wild man! makes sense. I'm using a speedtouch modem for now which was free and connects via USB so it's no use with a router. it feels cheap anyway! the last thing I want is a shitty net connection so I'll ditch the combo idea. hmmm, how come they did't tell me combos are bad in PCWorld?

yes, I'm in the UK. my ISP is Virgin.net - don't know if that makes any difference 'cos it all comes through British Telecom anyway?

thanks for the replies...

One model of the Speedtouch had a built-in router. One had to send it a certain command to activate the router in the firmware. I had such a router, but sold it when I decided to go cable modem. The downside of this modem/router on the cheap was that it only had one port, so you had to add a switch.

As tooki said, it's usually better to keep the modem/router separate. I do find router/Wi-Fi combos practical, though.

EDIT: Scratch that, I confused Speedtouch with Speedstream.

cms · Jul 21, 2006, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by rubber_duck

'ello, anyone care to recommend a good wireless router with ADSL modem built in and a decent firewall for a pair of powerbooks to share? and a windows machine (sigh). so far looking at netgear stuff but I'd rather buy linksys but they only seem to do routers without the modem. I'm running panther.

also, any recommendations for a wireless card for a titanium powerbook. the original airport cards go for silly money and the only thing I can find that will work is the belkin card bus thing. but everyone I know thinks belkin are pants!!! anyone tried the philips stuff?

TIA rubber_duck

As others here point out, combo wireless ADSL router/modems may not be common in the US but they are pretty much standard here. I like D-Link's new MIMO DSL-G624M ADSL/2 kit for its excellent range and signal integrity. Security is easy to set up if you know what you're doing, although if you want something that is configured right out of the box, Netgear is probably the way to go. The Netgear DG834G would probably be your best bet -- less than £60 from Amazon. It makes no difference to the kit you buy which ISP you use for your ADSL broadband connection, btw. But if you have access to cable broadband instead of ADSL, I'd choose that any day of the week. Much more stable and less problematic. Simpler (and cheaper) networking kit, too.

dale · Jul 21, 2006, 02:55 AM

I am based in the UK and have also been thinking about replacing my ADSL wireless modem router. I have also been looking at Netgear Routers. I need something that will coordinate with the other stuff in the office, so I like the white slab of the Netgear Rangemax Next Router.

My ISP is BT and I am thinking about upgrading to BT Total Broadband which includes VoIP service.

I know very little about VoIP, other than it gives you very cheap phone calls. What would I need to connect a normal analogue phone into such a router?? Is this possible? BT provide their own ADSL Modem Router, which looks okay, but I really need good download speed at a decent distance from the router (for when I am working outside, in the sunshine enjoying an ice-cold beer!!

Thanks in advance if anyone knows the answer.

cms · Jul 21, 2006, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by dale

I am based in the UK and have also been thinking about replacing my ADSL wireless modem router. I have also been looking at Netgear Routers. I need something that will coordinate with the other stuff in the office, so I like the white slab of the Netgear Rangemax Next Router.

My ISP is BT and I am thinking about upgrading to BT Total Broadband which includes VoIP service.

I know very little about VoIP, other than it gives you very cheap phone calls. What would I need to connect a normal analogue phone into such a router?? Is this possible? BT provide their own ADSL Modem Router, which looks okay, but I really need good download speed at a decent distance from the router (for when I am working outside, in the sunshine enjoying an ice-cold beer!!

Thanks in advance if anyone knows the answer.

BT won't support you if you don't use their equipment. Having said that, BT Tech Support is generally worse than useless, so if you know what you're doing, and don't need BT to assist you if things go pear-shaped, the Netgear kit you mention would be fine.

dale · Jul 21, 2006, 03:23 AM

Hi CMS,

Thanks for that. The networking side, I am okay with. I have had to call BT only once, and they gave me what I needed.

The real issue for me is that I know nothing about VoIP. BT provide an internet telephony service as part of thair BT Total Broadband package. The Wireless router that comes with the package allows analogue phones to be plugged in to it, and make internet phonecalls using the analogue phone (I like the design off the analogue phone - BT relate 2100 - and I have a headset attached to this also.

On the face of it, the BT router could give me exactly what I need, but I suspect it will not give me the speed that I need at decent distance.

BT also provide a software client to use the computer as a telephone, but currently, this is Windows only.

Does anyone know an elegant way of connecting an analogue phone to a Netgear Wireless ADSL Router (which only has 10/100 ethernet ports and the WAN port to physically connect to the internet provider) ?

Angus_D · Jul 21, 2006, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by tooki

Yes, cable modem/router combos are common (though terribly inadvisable), but DSL modem/router combos are rare at the consumer level.

Much more common here in the UK, to be honest. It's actually quite hard to find just a plain ethernet ADSL modem.

Personally, I'm on Be Unlimited and they loan me a SpeedTouch 780 for the duration of my contract with them. It's an ADSL2+ modem/router with built-in switch & wireless access point (does WDS, WPA-PSK+WPA2, etc), pretty much everything under the sun actually. Before that I had a SpeedTouch 510v4 with some crappy Belkin access point.

rubber_duck · Jul 21, 2006, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by cms

But if you have access to cable broadband instead of ADSL, I'd choose that any day of the week

really? is NTL the only cable provider in UK? not had any problems with ADSL yet.

ghporter · Jul 21, 2006, 07:27 AM

I think it's not only different on the two sides of the pond, but different from one ISP to another. Where I live, TimeWarner is the cable provider, and I wouldn't buy their services for anything unless it was a condition set by the kidnappers who had my wife. Aside from that though, different areas that TW serves have different levels of service. In new neighborhoods where the cable infrastructure is new and in good condition, subscribers get good service and (apparently) don't have issues with their neighbors Internet use slowing them down. In older neighborhoods (and it can be a matter of only a few years difference in age), there's spotty service, slowdowns when everyone goes online, and so on. DSL, on the other hand, is specific to an individual subscriber-my neighbor logging on CANNOT affect my access.

On yet another hand, I understand that most DSL ISPs in the UK have pretty solid caps on download speeds, so there isn't much chance for upgrades and what you get is something like 2Mbps down MAX. I don't know how fast UL cable providers are, so that sort of leaves the issue up in the air, at least for me. Don't expect problems with DSL, but be aware that there are indeed a lot of things that can affect your connection-things that are in many ways similar to what can affect cable.

dale · Jul 21, 2006, 07:50 AM

Thanks for all your responses.

NTL is the only cable provider in the UK to my knowledge. NTL do not have the wires running past my house, or plans to put them there. ADSL is my only option. I ordered a 1MB link from BT which was upgraded to 2MB. Download speed is slow at peak time, but I think that is a contention problem rather than speed.

The new Total Broadband offering from BT is "up to 8MB", which would be an imrovement, but at 50:1 contention ratio, at peak time it wil be a 6MB/50 speed increase!

cms · Jul 21, 2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I think it's not only different on the two sides of the pond, but different from one ISP to another. Where I live, TimeWarner is the cable provider, and I wouldn't buy their services for anything unless it was a condition set by the kidnappers who had my wife. Aside from that though, different areas that TW serves have different levels of service. In new neighborhoods where the cable infrastructure is new and in good condition, subscribers get good service and (apparently) don't have issues with their neighbors Internet use slowing them down. In older neighborhoods (and it can be a matter of only a few years difference in age), there's spotty service, slowdowns when everyone goes online, and so on. DSL, on the other hand, is specific to an individual subscriber-my neighbor logging on CANNOT affect my access.

On yet another hand, I understand that most DSL ISPs in the UK have pretty solid caps on download speeds, so there isn't much chance for upgrades and what you get is something like 2Mbps down MAX. I don't know how fast UL cable providers are, so that sort of leaves the issue up in the air, at least for me. Don't expect problems with DSL, but be aware that there are indeed a lot of things that can affect your connection-things that are in many ways similar to what can affect cable.

I have an uncapped 10-meg cable service from NTL. Aside from the generally dire customer service, I have no issues with the product at all. I live in an area with very low contention ratios, so generally get the full 10-meg speed 99% of the time. In the 4 years I've used NTL's service, I've only had a serious failure once -- and that was due to a knackered NTL cable modem. They replaced it in less than 24-hours, so I guess Customer Service does sometimes get it right! I run my network on a D-Link DI 634 MIMO router -- rock solid, with terrific range and signal integrity.

As for ADSL here in the UK, it's all pretty grim. I have many clients with broadband access provided by BT -- there are frequent, unexplainable and unforgivable outages, breakdowns, slowdowns and other problems. But despite all that, BT was just voted in an independent survey the UK's most reliable ADSL broadband service provider...! What the hell does that say about the rest of them....?!

rubber_duck · Jul 21, 2006, 03:00 PM

But despite all that, BT was just voted in an independent survey the UK's most reliable ADSL broadband service provider...! What the hell does that say about the rest of them....?

in the UK it all comes through BT anyway doesn't it? in which case you'd expect BT to be pretty good at it! wouldn't you?

I have a 2Mbit connection with Virgin.net. the BT speed test indicates I'm only getting 700-800kbps tho! another test reported 1000kbps and another one gave me 1300kbps are these reliable tests? Safari usually reports my download bandwidth at around 170K/sec which is about 1.3Mbits. but it used to top 200K/sec.

I have applied for the free 'upto 8Mbit' service. I love that - 'upto'!!!

ghporter · Jul 21, 2006, 06:02 PM

It's easy to get a number of different speed results because the servers used to test your speed can be located anywhere. My ISP offers speed tests all over the U.S., and if I use one in California, it's going to give a different result than one closer to me or one farther away. The time of day and overall Internet traffic density can have an affect too, sometimes a profound affect.

Try these tests at different times of day; you can find the best times to download big files this way.