[Tesselator]

I use none at all!

System security is preformed and provided within the system - literally your Mac OS
security settings. Everyone has access to your machine if only to be denied it. Whether
the attempt is wireless or through the cable makes no difference what-so-ever AFAIK.

I think wireless should be free for all so if someone wants to use their mobil device in
front of my home while walking by or even if there is a needy neighbor that wants to
get on for awhile everyday, I don't mind a bit!!! In fact I dig it! I might not dig it if
they ate up ALL my band width but that's almost impossible or at least highly unlikely.

In my case my wireless connection is capable of about 50k/sec and my line capacity
is about 200,000k/sec. or 200mb. So affectively some 3,000 ~ 4,000 people could
be on and using the full speed of their devices before my page browsing would begin
to bog.

If you're the average American with an 8mb connection it's about 140 ~ 160 people
and that's only if they are using it at full speed. I guess actually in the average case
there might be between 1 and 5 people that use it and most likely not at the same time
that you are. I have been monitoring mine for two years now and so far one person
logged on 3 times in a 4 hour period about 4 months ago. I do have to admit that
I just got my 200mb line about 1 month ago and haven't set up the monitor for the
new line. Prior to this line I had a 100mb connection.

Anyway, I'm all for having the wireless set to open access and I'll continue that until
such time as those around me abuse it to my own detriment.

[Oisín]

WPA-2 Personal.

[Nodnarb]

WPA Personal

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

WPA-2 Personal.

You can use the poll to tell us this...

[Shaddim]

None, I live in the middle of nowhere.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Tesselator 

If you're the average American with an 8mb connection. . .

Since when do average Americans get 8Mb conncetions?

[olePigeon]

WEP 128-bit and MAC address filtering.

[Tesselator]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Since when do average Americans get 8Mb conncetions?

They don't? I thought... OK, what would you say was the average line-speed
in the USA? Or is that spec on-line somewhere?

[ort888]

Free wireless for all is great until your neighbor starts downloading child porn on your account.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Tesselator 

They don't? I thought... OK, what would you say was the average line-speed
in the USA? Or is that spec on-line somewhere?

I'd bet the national average broadband downstream bandwidth is somewhere around 2.5Mb-3.5Mb.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Tesselator 

I think wireless should be free for all so if someone wants to use their mobil device in front of my home while walking by or even if there is a needy neighbor that wants to get on for awhile everyday, I don't mind a bit!!! In fact I dig it! I might not dig it if
they ate up ALL my band width but that's almost impossible or at least highly unlikely.

That is a great attitude until someone starts to use it for illegal purposes and it gets traced back to your IP and account. There has been several reported cases of this happening.

Not to mention I don't want anyone to get on my network and then figure a way to get access to my computers which is an even bigger concern for me.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Free wireless for all is great until your neighbor starts downloading child porn on your account.

or you get a letter from the MPAA or RIAA.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Free wireless for all is great until your neighbor starts downloading child porn on your account.

It doesn't have to be your neighbor - all it takes is some pervert driving around in a car with a laptop looking for an open network, and as soon as he finds yours, he starts downloading stuff from his car, and next thing you know, wham, you're getting visited by the police.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

It doesn't have to be your neighbor - all it takes is some pervert driving around in a car with a laptop looking for an open network, and as soon as he finds yours, he starts downloading stuff from his car, and next thing you know, wham, you're getting visited by the police.

Are there any examples of this actually happening?

[ort888]

Yup. I know it's a tiny chance... but why risk it? There aren't that many pervs out there driving around looking for networks, but there has to be some...

The odds are greater that the teenager across the street would be using you to torrent 40 hollywood blockbusters. I bet that's happening all over.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by peeb 

You can use the poll to tell us this...

I did.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I do remember reading something though that if you leave your network open you can't be held responsible for anyone stealing it and doing something illegal as you have essentially made yourself an ISP.

Florida man charged with stealing Wi-Fi - Wireless - MSNBC.com

[mdc]

I have my networks setup with WPA2.
I agree with everyone else. In a perfect world I would have one network open for anyone to use, but nowadays I just don't trust anyone to use it just for web browsing and simple things like that.
I could start to block services so that people could only browse the internet but then I'll find myself doing too much work for the greater good but still having all of the blame if someone does do something illegal.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I'd bet the national average broadband downstream bandwidth is somewhere around 2.5Mb-3.5Mb.

That sounds right.

Looking at the aggregate graph from DSL reports, I'd say that the most "popular" speed is 4mb/s, followed by 2mb/s and 1mb/s

[Goldfinger]

WEP 128bit with MAC filtering. My older ThinkPad X23 doesn't support WPA. Only WEP, and I'm getting a free Nintendo DS that I orderd and that doesn't do WPA either. Either way, the encreption is pretty useless since the neighbours can't even receive my signal.

[ghporter]

WPA(1) Personal here. I also use MAC address filtering to keep out the riffraff. WEP is poo as long as everything you have supports something else, but obviously the good people at Nintendo think that any poo is better than no poo at all. Even Microsoft supports WPA on the XBox 360's wireless adapter...

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

None, I live in the middle of nowhere.

This is my security scheme as well.

[Tesselator]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I do remember reading something though that if you leave your network open you can't be held responsible for anyone stealing it and doing something illegal as you have essentially made yourself an ISP.

Florida man charged with stealing Wi-Fi - Wireless - MSNBC.com

That's right! There's no way to "get busted" for anything someone else does over your wireless.

Furthermore and once again there is no "easier way" from anyone to get into your machines. If
it's wireless or if it's cable you're machine is "on line" in the same exact way to an outside
connection. If you share resources publicly they're free to access if you don't then the usual
hacker tricks will be needed to get in. And really any system that is online is hackable! The
ONLY real security is to keep things you don't want getting out totally off-line.

[Andrew Stephens]

I epyt yreve drow sdrawkcab

!foorploof

[el chupacabra]

None, few people people are educated enough to "hack' my wireless signal. For the one that is I don't have much interesting info to steal. If I was investigated for child porn theyd find I had none on my puter and that would be the end of it.

[peeb]

Egg sactly.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Tesselator 

I use none at all!

System security is preformed and provided within the system - literally your Mac OS
security settings. Everyone has access to your machine if only to be denied it. Whether
the attempt is wireless or through the cable makes no difference what-so-ever AFAIK.

I'm not even gonna respond to that nonsense.

Oh wait, I just did ?

Ok then, what you said is crap ! Home network and file sharing ring a bell ?
Obviously not.

-t

[@pplejaxkz]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

WPA(1) Personal here. I also use MAC address filtering to keep out the riffraff. WEP is poo as long as everything you have supports something else, but obviously the good people at Nintendo think that any poo is better than no poo at all. Even Microsoft supports WPA on the XBox 360's wireless adapter...

I am also a WPA Personal user!

[rogermugs]

when you're so used to driving around in your car through neighborhoods and logging on to other people's unsecured connections, it certainly would seem unfair to do anything but leave my own unlocked for those who do the same...


although they say that you are responsible for whatever traffic goes through your router (at your home IP)... if people file share through my router, what can you do?

-r

[tridentinecanon]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Free wireless for all is great until your neighbor starts downloading child porn on your account.

Agreed. Aside from the moral problem here, if the porn site is monitored by LE, then you've really got yourself a legal problem.

[tridentinecanon]

Originally Posted by Tesselator 

If you're the average American with an 8mb connection it's about 140 ~ 160 people
and that's only if they are using it at full speed.

I'm not sure this is accurate in reality. My father has about an 8mb connection with 3 of his personal computers connected at home. When my brother visited him over Christmas, he told my father that his connection seemed unusually slow for his ISP's speed, and recommended setting up wireless security. Voila! The speed jumped back up to "normal." My father lives in a remote area, so there's no way even 100 people were connected to his network. As it turns out, one of his neighbors had their college-aged kids home for Christmas, along with some of their friends. This was no more than 5-10 people (and likely not that many extra laptops), but it was clear who the culprit was.

Now you might be crying boo-hoo for those poor college kids who didn't get to log onto Facebook over Christmas, and I frankly don't care.

Forget internet for all. I'm paying for mine (even when I could easily steal my neighbor's). If you want to share, then let's split my bill.

[Tesselator]

tridentinecanon,

Hehehe, yeah I can agree with that sentiment too. There's nothing wrong with
thinking as you do. And if your connection is too laggy as a result of 5 to 10
people downloading movies from thepiratebay (which would classify as abuse
in my way of thinking) a little too often then for sure lock it up. Or turn off
and on the lock as needed. I also think that if you are going to barrow the
neighbor's wireless on any kind of regular basis or suck up bandwidth on
torrents, long FTP downloads, or high volume streaming you should let
them know somehow. But then I'm the type see, that knows and talks
to all my neighbors. Of course where I live about 90% of the people
are that way. Everyone knows everyone here - pretty much.

Anyway, I think we're not so different in our thinking but as I said I'll
continue to leave mine open until such time as abuse or inconsideration
has a detrimental affect. Hot spots are awesome! I use them all the time.
I can pull over in my car and use the semi-permanently mounted lap-top or
the lan-connect in my Windows Mobile 6 phone, the PSP, or DS, and get email,
visit a quick page for info, or etc. Hot spots seem to be about every 400 to 800
meters here which really makes it nice. So under these circumstances I also feel like
I'm giving something back by leaving mine open as well.

Everyone is going to think a little differently about this issue and abusers may well
contribute to the decision making process. I wasn't trying to command others to
think or act as I do. I was only expressing how I think of it, what I do, and what
affects will typically be encountered if one chooses a similar rout.

YouTube - Toot Tone

[Tomchu]

Tesselator ... I don't think you quite understand the goal behind encrypting your wireless network. It's not to prevent people from getting in to your computer -- it's to prevent people from sniffing your network traffic.

The latter is a much more serious (and viable) threat, seeing as how it's nearly impossible to gain any kind of access to a patched and firewalled machine, be it a Mac or a Windows box.

The question is how indifferent are you about a stranger being able to watch your MSN conversations in real-time, or to read your e-mail as you send/receive it, or to capture FTP logins as you make them?

[Tesselator]

OK, but I would make a very serious guess that one in 1,000 people
even know what sniffing is. Of them only 1 in a hundred would have
any idea at all what could potentially be gained from doing so. And
I guess only about 1 in 200 would be crooked enough to actually try
to do something like that. So far that's one in 20,000,000. Now let's
speculate what the odds are that one of those one in twenty million
people are going to actually have access to MY wireless connection.
Now once again lets speculate what the odds are that they would be
able to get anything useful from me besides maybe a password to
macnn.com and we're so far out that I actually have a better chance
or maybe about the same as being killed by blue-ice or having a
meteor landing on my head.

As far as having "strangers" watch my every move it's been documented
time and time again by both very high level CIA and NSA officials and
those who use the freedom of information act often to investigate those
kinds of things, that ALL traffic worldwide and especially in the USA is
captured and monitored 24/7. The chances of also "being watched" by
a private individual not in the government are as I specified above.

[ghporter]

Does it matter to you, Tesselator, that it only takes the one guy in 1000 who does know how to sniff networks to collect your traffic, get enough data from you to guess passwords and such, and then do "interesting" stuff to your online subscriptions, shopping sites, etc.? It doesn't take the NSA to do this, especially if you don't bother with effective encryption. Someone with a laptop and a directional "cantenna" could be quite a distance from you and still capture your network data. Whatever the actual odds for or against your data being compromised are right now, you can improve them immensely in your favor by simply taking a few simple steps.

[jcarr]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

WEP is poo as long as everything you have supports something else, but obviously the good people at Nintendo think that any poo is better than no poo at all.

Does your router support WPA 2 Personal? I have AirPort hardware, and use WPA 2 Personal with a 63 character password (thanks GRC. Typing the password into the Wii was a pain, but it works fine.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

WPA(1) Personal here. I also use MAC address filtering to keep out the riffraff. WEP is poo as long as everything you have supports something else, but obviously the good people at Nintendo think that any poo is better than no poo at all. Even Microsoft supports WPA on the XBox 360's wireless adapter...

The Wii supports WPA. The DS came out before WPA was popular, and Nintendo never (to my knowledge) offered a software update to make it WPA capable. It's a bit of a bummer for those who still use the DS online, but I don't know many who do.

[zerostar]

For my DS I have to turn it off or use useless WEP so right now security is just off...
My wife uses the DS online all the time, matter of fact she was online just now as i check the settings from work....

[Simon]

At home I use WPA2 Personal and MAC address filtering.

If AirPort Utility would allow me to set up bandwidth limitations, I'd hook up a second AEBS to my network and share an open wireless network. Unfortunately I can't find any way to limit the traffic (like for example max. 1 Mbps per client). And aside from that I'd like some logging capabilities (for example MAC addresses, IPS, time, etc.) so that in case some idiot decides to d/l illegal material over my open network I have some evidence to show wasn't me.

[Tesselator]

Yeah, I'm just saying that I think the benefits and coolness factor
(for me) far far outweigh any potential risk. Like at about a million
to once ratio. Also I guess that I'm a cash and carry kinda guy does
factor into it a bit. I keep gold and cash in a 1/2 ton safe and don't
have any bank accounts that aren't for one day deposit/withdrawals.
I never shop on-line unless it's a really hard item to get locally. I
live in a country where the CC company will stop any requested or
demanded transaction just by dialing them up and asking them to
stop or in some cases reverse the charges. I live in a country where
most people are honest and are considerate of others from a sense
of duty as a human being and part of a largely homogenous society
("most" in that sentence meaning high nineties). As for getting creative
with my on-line subscriptions hey, they can't do much worse than I
do myself. I seem to have very unpopular opinions and most forum
subscription sites are so cliche-ish they actively seek to expel anyone
of any substantial difference anyway. But I dunno, do you think that
the USA is very different to that? I guess it could be a cultural thing
though I somehow want to believe that except for a few bad areas
the USA is just as good as the rest of the world. <shrug>

It's the US federal government that's evil - not the citizens. Right?

For about 9 years while teaching university here I ran ALL my home
machines wide open, no firewall, no security, many services running,
shared the entire disk structure, and handed out my IP information
to every class that went through my courses. Except for a few virus
infiltrations from russia because of using Microsoft products (namely
OutLook Express and Explorer) my machine and experience actually
improved over time. By the second year students had set up their
own corse request and teacher performance analysis systems which
later went department wide. By the third year and since my IP wasn't
filtered out from the university networks, they set it up so that they
could schedule render jobs through my machine to the school, power
up or down a 280 node renderfarm for their school projects or to
make a little money on the side. Something I certainly didn't have
the will or energy to setup on my own. It was either during the same
year or the next that my RAIDS were used as a depository of a very
structured and huge database of some of the finest CG stills (for the
times) I had ever seen. A coffee table book was published through
the university press and close to 150,000 copies were sold before
year's end. The school made money, I made money, and students
all got laptops. There are lots more examples and stories around
that but I guess the point is NONE of it would have happened had I
been the typical professor who was all worried about some kid who
might be prone to retaliation for a low grade or of my IP getting in
to the hands of abusers.

I've heard of stories like that in the USA as well where some teach or
some kid leaves it all open or partly open and great things happened.
I can recall where one person put up an open access gopher and telnet
system and just let it sit there pretty much unattended. A few years
later a reputable subsidiary of one of the BIX owned networks bought
him out and added the I dunno how many gigs of dox files to their
databases as enticement for new customers. I've had open access
FTP sites that I've just thrown out there take on some very unusual
themes - though always of late people want to turn them into warez
dump sites.

I dunno... I'm probably rambling mercilessly by now so...

[Tomchu]

Originally Posted by Tesselator 

So far that's one in 20,000,000.

Pulling numbers out of your ass is fun and all, but unfortunately, they translate to about 15 people with the knowledge, ability, and motive if one takes into account the entire United States.

I think you probably overestimate the difficulty of sniffing network traffic.

This has nothing to do with the CIA or NSA or what have you. Any kid armed with tcpdump and a wireless card that can be put into promiscuous mode is capable of monitoring ANYTHING that you send/receive clean over the airwaves. On a Windows/Linux system, this takes all of ... oh, I don't know ... 5 seconds to initiate?

[Tesselator]

True.

[tinkered]

I secured my wireless network when my neighbor printed to my printer inadvertently.

[ghporter]

My in-laws live in a new community where the builder provides a wireless network in each home. We set out to enable my wife's iBook to surf at their house and discovered that she could see about 8 networks-including one that was named for the address across the street! Only one of those was in any way protected, and that one used WEP. For some reason, the "technicians" that plug everything in to the hardware boxes don't even mention security, in spite of the fact that EVERYBODY there has their own network. Let's just say that the in-laws are expecting to hear a lot of angst at their homeowners' meeting very soon-when "Bob" accidentally prints to "Fred's" laser printer, "Joan" accidentally saves a file to "Anne's" kids' computer, and oh by the way someone discovers that their last online purchase has been redirected to a different delivery address (after it's been delivered, of course). It WILL happen.

[peeb]

ghporter - I think you know this already, but whether they can print to each others printers is a bigger issue than open wireless. They must also be sharing those resources.

[Tesselator]

Yup! There's just about no way to do this kinda thing accidentally. If the
printer itself is wireless then that might happen but file saving and reading,
not a chance unless they purposely set their machines up to do that - and
then anyone from anywhere in the world could do the same thing (meaning
not wirelessly).

[ghporter]

It's extremely easy if the user that wants to print doesn't pay attention and your network doesn't have any controls on who can participate in it. "Shared" printers are shared, whether with just the people in your home or with the people next door. An open network won't differentiate between who uses its resources.

[Tesselator]

Really the only way I could see printer sharing getting mixed up like that by
accident is if both parties had the same model and make of printer and both
were setting up a printer share at the same time using the same computer
name. And what are the changes of that happening? Otherwise the person
would first have to make a series to blunders adding printers he doesn't
own and from locations he's never heard of. It's not like just any old shared
printer will show up when you go to print or something. And if the foreign
person is on Windoze it's even more difficult to accidently print to a Mac share.

I kinda actually wish it was so easy that it could be done by accident as I
use printer shares all the time.

To allow this to even happen without "accidentally" having the same computer
name you have to go into the sharing options and turn off Dynamic Global
Host Name and remove any passwords that were set up.

Also I share all resources and I need a password to get into anything - and
those are the default settings. So if you want your resources open to the
anonymous public you really have to try.

[Tomchu]

XP's printer sharing is set up such that as soon as you share your printer, anyone on the local network can print to it without having to provide user account credentials. Also, one of the better things about printer sharing in XP is that the printing host can keep a copy of drivers for said shared printer for different versions of Windows, so that when someone adds your shared printer to their computer, the drivers are automatically installed in moments.

Combine the above two pieces of information with the fact that sometimes Windows will decide to jump you over to an open neighboring wireless network, and you can see that accidently printing to someone else's printer is not exactly an impossibility.

Personally, I would notice that the printer I was choosing to print from was not my own printer (when looking at the print dialog), but that's me. For every one of me, there are 100 people who just click "OK" without looking at the dialog.

[Tesselator]

Yeah, maybe "anyone on the local network can print to it without having to
provide user account" but they need to install a driver for that printer and
select it. Also if you'd like you can password the access to the printer or limit
it to only specific machines thereby excluding all others.