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Zimphire · Mar 27, 2003, 04:41 PM

http://www.maccritic.com/comments.php?id=185_0_1_0_C

Aqua needs to go. We need something a bit more professional and tasteful IMHO.

fisherKing · Mar 27, 2003, 04:48 PM

for the three weeks i've been running osx, it's graphite all the way. i've downloaded (but not yet gotten into) themes (used them in os9)

either way, aqua is too cartoony for my tastes.
the minute i installed x, i looked for a way to kill the squiglly buttons (better the grey than the silly colors)

other than that (and the gooey scrollbars), osx is excellent. as always, it's what's under the hood that counts most, but...since we look at our computers all day (i do anyway), appearances count too.

apple, give us a choice or two! and everyone else, keep those themes coming...

p.h..i...l.... · Mar 27, 2003, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
http://www.maccritic.com/comments.php?id=185_0_1_0_C

Aqua needs to go. We need something a bit more professional and tasteful IMHO.

Of course you can argue about taste, but here are my 2 cents:

I wouldn�t like the idea of having a system-wide brushed metal look. It�s fine for the iApps, but i would find it too dark and too distracting to have it everywhere.

Imho Aqua doesn�t need to go, Aqua needs to evolve, the stripes should go... i love my interface with Smooth Stripes in Graphite variation... elegant but unobtrusive.

// phil

SwarmyCurve · Mar 27, 2003, 04:54 PM

I would like to see the choice of stripes or stripeless in 10.3. Still, Aqua is much nicer as a system wide setting compared to Brushed Metal. Brushed looks perfect in few-window situations like ichat, safari, calculator, etc.

Aqua does not seem cartoony and the last thing I want to see is some boring "professional" look. If aqua is cartoony, then turn on graphite or use a theme.

Monkeymike · Mar 27, 2003, 05:34 PM

System wide metal would be horrible! I agree that the best thing to do is have the option to turn the stripes on and off. I love aqua. The colors and the look of it are wonderful!!

MindFad · Mar 27, 2003, 05:46 PM

No way to system-wide brushed metal.

Something differen would be nice, though.

I'mDaMac · Mar 27, 2003, 06:35 PM

I'd like the system wide brushed metal. It would have been a more sensible replacement/evolution of OS 9's platinum appearance than Aqua IMHO. Yes to brushed metal!

gdiddy · Mar 27, 2003, 06:37 PM

Before anyone else claims it, I was the guy who originally developed the whole brushed thing and I made the best copy of it.

gdiddy · Mar 27, 2003, 06:39 PM

Something like a combination of Rhapsodized and BM could be really nice. More of a platinum looking "metal" for the general GUI and the stainless steel look for the iApps

(He said BM, hehehe)

Kujo · Mar 27, 2003, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
http://www.maccritic.com/comments.php?id=185_0_1_0_C

Aqua needs to go. We need something a bit more professional and tasteful IMHO.

i agree with you.. but there is nothing "professional" about brushed... it was kewl when i first saw it but its just old now.

SwarmyCurve · Mar 27, 2003, 07:24 PM

If everything goes brushed, there will be no way mac users could complain about win xp's wacky interface - it would be just as bad. Ick, I shudder to think of all brushed!!

Adam Betts · Mar 27, 2003, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Aqua needs to go. We need something a bit more professional and tasteful IMHO.

Huh? Are you out of your mind? Aqua is one of the most beautiful, professional and usable theme ever made. There are tons of people switching to MacOS X just for the GUI. Could you tell me one theme that is WAY better than Aqua?

You don't speak for everyone so please do not use "we"

mrmister · Mar 27, 2003, 07:31 PM

Blech. Systemwide Bushed Metal. Boo.

Smooth Stripes in Graphite? Yes.

Atomic Rooster · Mar 27, 2003, 09:04 PM

as i said before in another string...the metal theme was to be released with 10.1 and also another theme called snow (stripeless?)...emphasis is on THEME here...aqua will not go, it will be the default theme...all this being good news because osx and apple will finally support themes...

Adam Betts · Mar 27, 2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by Atomic Rooster:
all this being good news because osx and apple will finally support themes...

Exactly

TheIceMan · Mar 28, 2003, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Huh? Are you out of your mind? Aqua is one of the most beautiful, professional and usable theme ever made. There are tons of people switching to MacOS X just for the GUI. Could you tell me one theme that is WAY better than Aqua?

You don't speak for everyone so please do not use "we"

Adam
I completely agree with you. AQUA was the reason why my brother and I switched to Mac from PC last year. Don't know what it is, but Apple did do a good job marketing the GUI to us (my brother and I, and I would guess many others). In fact, after all the themes I have used, my favorite is still Max's SmoothStripe, Aqua without stripes. It goes REALLY well w/ Rad-8's Snow E.2 icons.

fireside · Mar 28, 2003, 06:12 AM

TheIceMan: you made a big mistake saying it was Max's Smoothstripes theme. We all know it was Zimphire's theme first. Now you'll make him derail the entire thread!

as to actually contribute something to this topic, i system wide brushed metal would be horrible. i can barely stand it in most apps, and the only reason i like it in safari is cause without the brushed, it looks horrible. as for aqua being cartoony, have you people EVER seen window xp's gui? now thats cartoony.

ShotgunEd · Mar 28, 2003, 06:33 AM

Yeh I've tried one of those brushed themes and I had to change it quite quickly, stick with aqua or give us a reasonable themeing engine built-in apple.

godzookie2k · Mar 28, 2003, 07:06 AM

I'd like to see a Final Cut Pro inspired interface theme if it did happen. But brushed... ugh, shoot me now.

invisibleX · Mar 28, 2003, 07:23 AM

Why would Apple want to dump its universally-accepted top-notch interface? People would not like brushed in all apps and the idea that it would even be an option is ludicrus.

What we will see is a major update to Aqua as OS X matures.

codywalton · Mar 28, 2003, 07:33 AM

thanks to Max and Unsanity, I've had an all brushed metal interface for over a year now....

it works really well,..much better than aqua...it should become the new standard

bOOzo · Mar 28, 2003, 07:58 AM

I prefer Aqua without stripes. But even if they did use brushed systemwide, there are still the same Aqua buttons so new users would probably like it just as much.

I think they should just support themes instead, where the bundled themes are Aqua, Snow (nostripes) and Brushed.

Dace · Mar 28, 2003, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by fireside:
TheIceMan: you made a big mistake saying it was Max's Smoothstripes theme. We all know it was Zimphire's theme first. Now you'll make him derail the entire thread!

I believe it was a themer called "C__C" that first came out with a stripe-less Aqua named "Charcoal", at least that was the first version of a stripe-less Aqua that I saw. He also released the first square corner Aqua I think.

Oh, and system wide brushed would look terrible. Something smooth like the Quicksilver theme would look better. I do hope Aqua finally supports themes...maybe something like Windows' XP Visual Styles.

swiz · Mar 28, 2003, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by invisibleX:
Why would Apple want to dump its universally-accepted top-notch interface? People would not like brushed in all apps and the idea that it would even be an option is ludicrus.

What we will see is a major update to Aqua as OS X matures.

This sounds about right.
And all the talk in this thread about the Zim/Max debate is really immature and needs to be put to bed. Leave it alone.

Zimphire · Mar 28, 2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by fireside:
TheIceMan: you made a big mistake saying it was Max's Smoothstripes theme. We all know it was Zimphire's theme first. Now you'll make him derail the entire thread!

LOL make me derail the thread?

WTF do you think you are doing?

Some people aren't too smart upstairs it seems.

Zimphire · Mar 28, 2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by codywalton:
thanks to Max and Unsanity, I've had an all brushed metal interface for over a year now....

it works really well,..much better than aqua...it should become the new standard

I tried that theme as well. While it was nicely done, it wasn't consistent. Not that it was Max's fault, because it wasn't.

gdiddy · Mar 28, 2003, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
LOL make me derail the thread?

WTF do you think you are doing?

Some people aren't too smart upstairs it seems.

Here we go!

Adam Betts · Mar 28, 2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I tried that theme as well. While it was nicely done, it wasn't consistent. Not that it was Max's fault, because it wasn't.

Oh lordie, when will you ever stop bringing up Max's name? Try to forget him for a few seconds!

p.s. your post have been reported.

gdiddy · Mar 28, 2003, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Oh lordie, when will you ever stop bringing up Max's name? Try to forget him for a few seconds!

p.s. your post have been reported.

Amen Brother!

This guy is just amazing! I hate to bash on him but I really think he should be banned the next time he says anything about "You know who".

Unbelievable! He's like an f-in pitbull!

swiz · Mar 28, 2003, 04:24 PM

How about reporting the other posters for not letting this thing die off? I know Zim just as well as I know Max and like them equally but their is obvious favoritism going on here with some of you. BTW, I think that reporting posts for someone taking up for their own cause is pretty lame when you others are taking part in the arguments just as much and it doesnt even have anything to do with you. I guess I'll be reported now too.
For the record I dont care who is right between Max and Zim but some of you act like Max put the stars in the sky or you owe him something; if you feel that strongly why not just Paypal him some dough instead of fighting fights he doesn't ask you to?

bOOzo · Mar 28, 2003, 04:36 PM

Yes, please just let it drop. I was not offended by anything that Zimphire said. Just focus on discussing GUI customization instead.

fireside · Mar 28, 2003, 05:23 PM

i guess zimphire cant take a joke :/

sniffer · Mar 28, 2003, 06:43 PM

I don't know, but Aqua has kind of growth on me over the time. I've hard to image that a new theme would be much better than the current one. But that's just me.

SwarmyCurve · Mar 28, 2003, 08:23 PM

I think aqua has really matured over the past 2 years or so. There should be some tweaking made to the interface in 10.3 (I'm imagining Max's SmoothStripes - its scrolls, widgets, and other small touches).

Abandoning aqua would be really dumb and would make many software developers have to update their software programs' interfaces to mesh in with a new look.

If everyone wants a "professional" look so badly, they should check out the swizcore themes. There are several that are monochromatic and unobtrusive (cappuccino comes to mind).

mrtew · Mar 28, 2003, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by Dace:
I believe it was a themer called "C__C" that first came out with a stripe-less Aqua named "Charcoal", at least that was the first version of a stripe-less Aqua that I saw. He also released the first square corner Aqua I think.

Yeah, the first theme I ever saw (and I looked HARD for a few months after getting OSX) was Unlined Charcoal by a semi-anonymous guy that I think still hangs out around here. And I didn't see any other themes for another few months except for the Ruby and Grape variations on it.

Originally posted by codywalton:
thanks to Max and Unsanity, I've had an all brushed metal interface for over a year now.... it works really well,..much better than aqua...it should become the new standard

I used Brushed/Metalifizer for about a year too, and believe me it looks great when the whole computer is like that. I wouldn't want Apple to force it on all the people that don't like brushed though, but I definitely disagree with people that say Aqua would be hard to beat. I think almost EVERY other theme beats the heck out of the blinding white stripes and horribly clashing colors of aqua. Someone tell me a worse color combination than primary red/yellow/green with light plastic-blue. Yuck. I really hope they can do better than that, and soon.

SwarmyCurve · Mar 28, 2003, 08:38 PM

I remember early themes were by someone named G3Boy or something... and they appeared on XCustomize or something... but one thing I do remember is how rude the guy was who ran XCustomize.

Oh those garish grape aqua themes.

Zimphire · Mar 28, 2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by mrtew:
Yeah, the first theme I ever saw (and I looked HARD for a few months after getting OSX) was Unlined Charcoal by a semi-anonymous guy that I think still hangs out around here. And I didn't see any other themes for another few months except for the Ruby and Grape variations on it.

Yes, I remember those too, very flat looking. Those were out around the same time SimpleAqua was. I never hung out here at the time, but was posting it over at MacMonkey when it existed.

Zimphire · Mar 28, 2003, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by bOOzo:
Yes, please just let it drop. I was not offended by anything that Zimphire said. Just focus on discussing GUI customization instead.

I didn't think you would be Max, it's not as If I was saying anything bad about you.

There is a reason why the word "Jerk" is in knee jerk.

Any no matter what I said before, I have never thought you was a jerk.

Zimphire · Mar 28, 2003, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by SwarmyCurve:
Abandoning aqua would be really dumb and would make many software developers have to update their software programs' interfaces to mesh in with a new look.

See, if software devs would just use the Extras.rsrc, they wouldn't have to worry about GUI changes. Apple included.

If everyone wants a "professional" look so badly, they should check out the swizcore themes. There are several that are monochromatic and unobtrusive (cappuccino comes to mind).

Problem with that is, consistency. Because not all software uses the Extras.rsrc, there will never be any real consistency.

smeger · Mar 29, 2003, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
See, if software devs would just use the Extras.rsrc, they wouldn't have to worry about GUI changes. Apple included.[/B]

Not an option - there's no public interface to Extras.rsrc that developers can access. Which is �berlame.

invisibleX · Mar 29, 2003, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by SwarmyCurve:
I remember early themes were by someone named G3Boy or something... and they appeared on XCustomize or something... but one thing I do remember is how rude the guy was who ran XCustomize.

Oh those garish grape aqua themes.

XCustomise. You say he had themes? What was his name?

swiz · Mar 29, 2003, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by smeger:
�berlame.

Wins my vote for coolest term I've heard in a while.

mrtew · Mar 29, 2003, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by invisibleX:
XCustomise. You say he had themes? What was his name?

Those themes were a little flat and derivative of Aqua compared to today's total gui redux's but they were a godsend for people that were blinded by the stripes and sickened by the blue. And stop slamming the Grape one please... that was mine and I cry very easily

And I believe the guy's 'name' who did XCustomise was 'invisibleX'.

mrtew · Mar 29, 2003, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by mrtew:
Those themes were a little flat and derivative of Aqua compared to today's total gui redux's but they were a godsend for people that were blinded by the stripes and sickened by the blue. And stop slamming the Grape one please... that was mine and I cry very easily

I just found the old website for the Unlined themes! Click here to see the origins of theming for OSX!
http://www2.fwi.com/~thefreys/Xhacked/themes.html

and here is a screenshot of my Grape variation! Sweet... eh!

Zimphire · Mar 29, 2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by smeger:
Not an option - there's no public interface to Extras.rsrc that developers can access. Which is �berlame.

Explain Please? How are people accessing the Extras.rsrc now?

smeger · Mar 29, 2003, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by swiz:
Wins my vote for coolest term I've heard in a while.

Thanks, thanks...

I'd like to thank the academy, and my friends, and PopTarts�, and...

smeger · Mar 29, 2003, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Explain Please? How are people accessing the Extras.rsrc now?

There's no public API to get elements out of Extras.rsrc and into a useable form. All that you can do is use the Resource Manager to get the raw resource data out (and you have to know what you're looking for and where it's stored).

Apple hasn't documented how to map this data to a useable form.

bbxstudio · Mar 29, 2003, 01:46 PM

It would be silly of Apple to drop Aqua so soon - it's still the most polished and consistent interface going. If they do provide an additional Metal appearance, I wonder if they'll try and squeeze it into the Aqua spec (like Max's brushed theme) or create an additional set of resources with unique behaviours... I personally dislike the brushed metal look - true metal isn't pure grayscale (looks too flat) and the bevels are pretty unexciting and too soft - but if fleshing it out as an alternative built-in appearance opens up the spec a bit and provides us with some additional resources and layout options, I'm all for it.

Zimphire · Mar 29, 2003, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by smeger:
There's no public API to get elements out of Extras.rsrc and into a useable form. All that you can do is use the Resource Manager to get the raw resource data out (and you have to know what you're looking for and where it's stored).

Apple hasn't documented how to map this data to a useable form.

How lame of Apple. They want people to follow guidlines, but don't give them any help of doing so.

sniffer · Mar 29, 2003, 06:59 PM

mrtew, I wonder if I've seen your screen-grab somewhere before. Have you posted it on macnn earlier?

(Edit: I am just checking. Sometimes I am surprised over what I am able to remember and what not..)