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mrmister · Apr 17, 2003, 08:09 PM

Seriously--exclusivity on the Net is not usually a good idea, esp. when it's a small community as it is. Iff you do create a "themr-creator-only" forum, who decides who deserves to be in? Who kicks folks out?

I predict that if it does get off the ground it will either wither and folks will stay here, or it will do well and you'll see a marked drop in postings at this forum...which lowers the chance that people will even check in to see people's work.

I think folks are overestimating the size of their "public", and would be better served putting energy into this forum and getting excellent themes out onto the Net.

Do what you will.

smeger · Apr 17, 2003, 08:18 PM

I agree completely - there are already a couple of options - Colin has theme-related forums, as does Swiz. There are probably others that I'm not aware of.

They don't have a critical mass of viewers.

Mac Guru · Apr 17, 2003, 08:49 PM

I created an IRC channel on irc.hashmark.net for the sole purpose of real time theme discussion. I'm against making OSX Theming an 'exclusive' thing... since it would all but kill the theming community IMHO.

But if you want to discuss anything in REAL TIME, with other themers, come on over to the OS X Theme channel on hashmark.net.

#osxthemes

Hi I'm Mike · Apr 17, 2003, 08:51 PM

or just keep everything to one post.

CarbonG4 · Apr 17, 2003, 08:54 PM

I think the intended purpose of Max's and Swiz's own forums is for answering any support questions dealing specifically with their themes and/or receiving feedback directly w/o having it constantly posted here.

I don't think a private forum will take away from this forum whatsoever. The idea behind the private forum is to keep mockups and theme ideas underwraps while still giving themers the ability to communicate and solve problems with each other w/o the hassle's of end users requesting beta's or hurrying the developer along to release the theme.

This would make for cleaner initial releases of themes because the developer won't be as pressured. Then, once he/she has his design well thought out and troubleshot in the private forum we would still post just like we do now in the public forum and gather all the public feedback after we have a solid idea ready to start developing the theme. This would just ensure that the initial design gets planned exactly as the theme creator had invisioned it, without any sneakpeeks until the design is fully thought out... we won't be discouraging the use of this forum at all. It's great to get feedback from your users, no question about that.

ambush · Apr 17, 2003, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by CarbonG4:
I think the intended purpose of Max's and Swiz's own forums is for answering any support questions dealing specifically with their themes and/or receiving feedback directly w/o having it constantly posted here.

I don't think a private forum will take away from this forum whatsoever. The idea behind the private forum is to keep mockups and theme ideas underwraps while still giving themers the ability to communicate and solve problems with each other w/o the hassle's of end users requesting beta's or hurrying the developer along to release the theme.

This would make for cleaner initial releases of themes because the developer won't be as pressured. Then, once he/she has his design well thought out and troubleshot in the private forum we would still post just like we do now in the public forum and gather all the public feedback after we have a solid idea ready to start developing the theme. This would just ensure that the initial design gets planned exactly as the theme creator had invisioned it, without any sneakpeeks until the design is fully thought out... we won't be discouraging the use of this forum at all. It's great to get feedback from your users, no question about that.

Hierarchical societies = trouble.

For real. I don't really think this is a good idea.

NetworkShadow · Apr 17, 2003, 09:36 PM

A theme site might be nice though...

Adam Betts · Apr 17, 2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
For real. I don't really think this is a good idea.

Me too.

gveloper · Apr 17, 2003, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
A theme site might be nice though...

Or getting an existing theme site, like themes.org to broaden to host OS X themes and discussion.

CarbonG4 · Apr 17, 2003, 09:52 PM

I'm beginning to see both sides... definitely a lot of issues w/ implementing a private forum, and deciding who gets access. I know if i was new to themeing it would be really annoying just to get access to a freaking forum to get advice, etc.

But I am very happy that we have an IRC channel on irc.macnn.com. It should be a good place for theme makers to talk w/ each other and DCC files to each other in order to solve any issues or gather additional thoughts before revealing the actual design in a public forum.

Now we just need to populate the chan w/ theme makers.

Colonel_Panic · Apr 17, 2003, 10:19 PM

Well, I have already offered to donate some forum space for at theme only forum. I could also creat a website for themes, although there are a bunch out there now. Perhaps I`ll hop on that irc channal later and talk about what you themers want to do.

NetworkShadow · Apr 17, 2003, 10:58 PM

Right now http://www.resexcellence.com/ is the hub for most of the themes, but they don't have a forum where people can talk about the themes and making themes. I just think it would be cool to have both in the same place... To be able to see all the themes there are, be able to download them, and talk about them all at one site would be the best.

A theme makers only forum is a bad idea, though.

Colonel_Panic · Apr 17, 2003, 11:23 PM

I don`t understand why a theme maker only forum is a bad idea..

Why is it a bad idea to have a private place where people that make themes can get help from other people who make themes and share their stuff with each other while at the same time not sharing their stuff with the public?

sushiism · Apr 18, 2003, 06:46 AM

i think we need a site just for themes, resex is a bit broad, a bit ugly and a bit outdated. We need something like sat deskmod or something but just for osx themes/icons (and without the bad sides of deskmod etc hehe)
themer only forum isnt a good thing becuase i really like to look at themes in progress and ideas but i dont have the time to make my own right now and dont want to mess up my osx install at the moment hehe

Mount My Floppy · Apr 18, 2003, 06:53 AM

Well if all the themers decide they want a website for themes complete with a private/public board just let me know. I`ll do it up. Flash and non flash...

Yes, I have a lot of time on my hands.

EDIT: Oops, This post should have been under colonel_panic for my user name..

invisibleX · Apr 18, 2003, 07:43 AM

I don't know how much everyone knows but we're not far from having a dedicated theme site and forum, etc etc etc.

Colonel_Panic · Apr 18, 2003, 08:07 AM

Well I`m talking about having a site where all the themers will have their own account in witch they will be able to store their files and host their files to the word, Also have a private forum... Anyone who has a *special* web account could use or something like that. All free.. It would be nice to have one central location to go to to download themes thats run and updated by the themers. I`m working on some layouts now because I`m THAT bored..

Mac Guru · Apr 18, 2003, 08:37 AM

The problem with the idea of a private this and a private that, is WHO decides if someone is a 'themer' and who decides who to allow in?

This whole 'themer' title REEKS of a secret society and they NEVER work online.

Colonel_Panic · Apr 18, 2003, 08:43 AM

By themer I ment some one who has created themes.. Anyone who has a free account with themespace on the server would have access to the private area. If some one causes problems or yadi yadi its simple enough to "remove" them.

mac15 · Apr 18, 2003, 09:14 AM

Well, I asked Max if he wanted his own forums. I'm Chris from funmac.com, I host his forums, I saw max as probably the best theme guy and I though he needs a place to answer tech questions and take requests/opinions.

So he agreed, Its a good idea having them

bOOzo · Apr 18, 2003, 09:24 AM

Yes, my forum at Funmac is mainly for support. That way I don't get as many emails asking for help, people can just search the forums first and see if their question is already answered.

invisibleX · Apr 18, 2003, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
The problem with the idea of a private this and a private that, is WHO decides if someone is a 'themer' and who decides who to allow in?

This whole 'themer' title REEKS of a secret society and they NEVER work online.

Exactly.

Some people are working on theme sites with hosting, etc (and have been for some time). I would say that by summer you'll see large site(s) dedicated to themes. Ones where everyone is welcome.

Zimphire · Apr 18, 2003, 10:43 AM

I personally think it's a good idea. If someone wants to do it, hey that is cool.

Hi I'm Mike · Apr 18, 2003, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by invisibleX:
Exactly.

Some people are working on theme sites with hosting, etc (and have been for some time). I would say that by summer you'll see large site(s) dedicated to themes. Ones where everyone is welcome.

this isnt really what we are talking about. and really I do not think anyone is working on any theme sites or they would have asked others what they should put on the site and what it should surround, not just the downloading of themes. I want something much bigger than that. Your previous post is one of the things that I hate being heard the most. "I don't know how much everyone knows but we're not far from having a dedicated theme site and forum, etc etc etc." no one knows anything because no one is told, people just think that they should go out and take it upon themselves to create something and not even worry that what they are doing is no the right thing. it could have everything anyone wanted but it isnt being done right.

bbxstudio · Apr 18, 2003, 11:26 AM

I can appreciate the arguments on both sides - having a dedicated forum would be great for themers needing help, but it might also cannibalize traffic and interest in this forum. A seperate Themers forum on MacNN would essentially kill this one, which has a broader focus than theme development alone - and I think everybody agrees that this is a good thing.

One Solution: create monthly (or bi-monthly or quarterly) topics in this forum dedicated solely to theme-creation discoveries, Q&A and troubleshooting development issues. Simply request in the opening post each session that posters follow the format (ie):

Subject: OSX ThemeDev Arena | May 2003

Welcome fellow OSX theme developers

This is a dedicated monthly (bi-monthly) topic specifically created to promote the free exchange of ideas, discoveries and development issues. To cut down on unecessary and off-topic posts we ask that participants observe the following criteria:

On Topic: any relevant discourse by theme developers for theme developers, including:

o Q&A regarding theme development
o new mutually-beneficial discoveries
o troubleshooting development issues
o theme-development FAQs
o feedback as it relates to these topics

Off-topic: anything else, including:

o specific port, theme, or theme variant requests
o user-side troubleshooting and restore issues
o anything that doesn't conform to the On-topic criteria listed above

For these off-topic issues, feel free to contact the developers directly or post a request for help in the main GUI customization forum.

Enjoy

invisibleX · Apr 18, 2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Hi I'm Mike:
this isnt really what we are talking about. and really I do not think anyone is working on any theme sites or they would have asked others what they should put on the site and what it should surround, not just the downloading of themes. I want something much bigger than that. Your previous post is one of the things that I hate being heard the most. "I don't know how much everyone knows but we're not far from having a dedicated theme site and forum, etc etc etc." no one knows anything because no one is told, people just think that they should go out and take it upon themselves to create something and not even worry that what they are doing is no the right thing. it could have everything anyone wanted but it isnt being done right.

No, I know for a fact of atleast two both of which are in good hands and their extent has obviously not been made public for various reasons.

Mac Guru · Apr 18, 2003, 02:08 PM

THIS is exactly why a private theme site is a BAD idea.

Everyone knows what's best for the community and gets in the faces of those who differ in oppinion.

There are too many cooks in the kitchen and they spoiled the broth a LONG time ago.

If someone wants to go out there and spend their time and effort on a theme site that has all they feel is needed in this world, so be it. No one is forcing you from making one too.

Filtering a need for a site down to ONE source and removing choice and variety is a very Micro$oftian thing to do.

Zimphire · Apr 18, 2003, 04:20 PM

Simple way to be apart of the themeing forum like that, make a theme.

Instant access.

smeger · Apr 18, 2003, 05:21 PM

The one big problem that I have with this idea is that I don't think that it would grow the community. I think that a lot of people see the in-process themes on this forum and get excited about being able to make their own theme. If this process was hidden, people would be much less likely to get into theming.

Just my opinion, of course.

wagmedia · Apr 19, 2003, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by smeger:
The one big problem that I have with this idea is that I don't think that it would grow the community. I think that a lot of people see the in-process themes on this forum and get excited about being able to make their own theme. If this process was hidden, people would be much less likely to get into theming.

Just my opinion, of course.

I agree Smeger, that's what got me interested. Plus, being able to read through all the questions themers posted to each other allowed me to figure out how to make a theme. If people didn't have access to that information, less people would get into theming, IMHO.

Colonel_Panic · Apr 19, 2003, 10:08 AM

I don`t understand why you guys think that if there is a place for themers to go to talk to other themers thats private, That, that will cause them to stop going other places aswell..

Mac Guru · Apr 19, 2003, 10:56 AM

It's not the concern that themers would post and visit other places like here, it's that by making theming an exclusive entity there is a very strong chance that newbies will be put off by the fact that it doesn't seem open for them.

It may in fact be, but the sheer fact that the word *PRIVATE* is in there that will scare off a LOT of noobies.

mrtew · Apr 19, 2003, 11:38 PM

To me it sounds like the discussion of themes has fallen by the wayside in favor of discussion of theme forums.

Zimphire · Apr 20, 2003, 02:01 AM

If someone wants to make a private theme forum for themers only, I didn't think anyone needed permission to do so anyhow. So why all the fighting?

If you think it is a good idea, start one. If it does well then it was a good idea. If it flops, then it wasn't.