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phillryu · Apr 24, 2003, 10:37 PM

I'm trying to bug my friend to start coding a light and fast theme changer, that'll try to have a very simple and appleish interface. In fact, the mockup I have is pretty much a direct rip of Apple's "Desktop" pane. Not sure about you guys, but somtimes, I wonder what it'd be like if Apple made themes official...

What do you guys think? Is it worth it?

NetworkShadow · Apr 24, 2003, 10:42 PM

I could dig it. I like the prefpane idea.

phillryu · Apr 24, 2003, 10:42 PM

Some details I was thinking about...

First, you could drop themes into the well and they would immediately install/change theme. Second, if you selected a theme from the view below, you would have to press the apply button to change it. Finally, you would be able to specify folders, or "collections" of your themes, and open them in Appearance Themes.

King Bob On The Cob · Apr 24, 2003, 10:42 PM

I'd prefer that simplicity to the mess we have nowadays...

Dace · Apr 24, 2003, 10:47 PM

How about a "Advanced" or "Options" button? So we can decide what parts of the theme we would like to install. That's all I can think of for now.

phillryu · Apr 24, 2003, 10:48 PM

The idea is simplicity. Fast, simple theme switching, with an intuitive and simple interface. Maybe separate into light/pro versions?

NetworkShadow · Apr 24, 2003, 10:50 PM

Keep it in one version, and have the extra options on a tab or something?

phillryu · Apr 24, 2003, 10:55 PM

Well, I'd prefer no tabs. I just don't want it to become like Duality. (Which for me, feels like it has too many options.) I think the collections thing would work well... I always have a problem with having a list of 30 themes to sift through. (That's including variants.) I was also thinking of a pull down menu below the theme description, that might let users select a variant. Some theme makers include tons.

decursive · Apr 25, 2003, 12:38 AM

how about being able to get info on each theme (by right clicking it or something) which brings up a checklist of things to be changed? So that whatever you check and uncheck is individual for each theme and remains even after you close the application/system pref.

NetworkShadow · Apr 25, 2003, 12:47 AM

Well a button at least that would bring down a box with extra options.

invisibleX · Apr 25, 2003, 07:47 AM

Make it work in root dammit!

Brien · Apr 25, 2003, 09:16 AM

Just add a preview button, and you got a sweet app!

ambush · Apr 25, 2003, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by phillryu:
I'm trying to bug my friend to start coding a light and fast theme changer, that'll try to have a very simple and appleish interface. In fact, the mockup I have is pretty much a direct rip of Apple's "Desktop" pane. Not sure about you guys, but somtimes, I wonder what it'd be like if Apple made themes official...

What do you guys think? Is it worth it?

To my eyes it's not really worth it

But then again you could say I'm biased because of my company, and that I know what's going to change the world of theming soon.

Colonel_Panic · Apr 25, 2003, 02:46 PM

I like it, Hell I think I might even start coding it if your friend doesnt. Keep me posted.

My screen name on AIM is silenti iechos

invisibleX · Apr 25, 2003, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
To my eyes it's not really worth it

But then again you could say I'm biased because of my company, and that I know what's going to change the world of theming soon.

Well there are alot of rumours, facts, etc. Please elaborate

FB Eye · Apr 25, 2003, 03:44 PM

To be brutaly honest, I hope the competition comes from Apple...

phillryu · Apr 25, 2003, 03:55 PM

Sure, don't we all. Note how in the interface, I'm trying to mimic Apple exactly, just to pretend that they really supported "Appearance Themes"

ambush · Apr 25, 2003, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by phillryu:
Sure, don't we all. Note how in the interface, I'm trying to mimic Apple exactly, just to pretend that they really supported "Appearance Themes"

Yep, now you also have to reinvent the "ugly hack" part of themeing. Good luck

Hint: you'll have big big big competition, it seems.

FB Eye · Apr 25, 2003, 04:51 PM

ok ambush, so i'm guessing the big big competition will come from the next version of ThemeChanger right?

Angus_D · Apr 25, 2003, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by FB Eye:
ok ambush, so i'm guessing the big big competition will come from the next version of ThemeChanger right?

Wrong. So very, very wrong.

phillryu · Apr 25, 2003, 05:03 PM

Well I had an idea about using Unsanity's APE for the theming.. I have to talk to someone about it. I think it might prove to be a lot "cleaner" if it would work.

ambush · Apr 25, 2003, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by FB Eye:
ok ambush, so i'm guessing the big big competition will come from the next version of ThemeChanger right?

Probablement pas

Angus_D · Apr 25, 2003, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by phillryu:
Well I had an idea about using Unsanity's APE for the theming.. I have to talk to someone about it. I think it might prove to be a lot "cleaner" if it would work.

Trust me on this: several of us have been contemplating the idea for some time, and it would not be clean. When you say this, you obviously haven't looked at Apple's internal theme API (or rather, Apple's two internal theme APIs, one for AppKit and one for HIToolbox). Apparently controls also cache partially drawn copies of themselves (may vary according to the implementation, which varies according to the framework)...

Feel free to try, I'm sure Slava would be happy to license APE to you if you did manage to figure out a "clean" solution.

(Did you really think you're the first person to think about this?

)

decursive · Apr 25, 2003, 07:41 PM

i think they should rename this forum to "GUI Customization Hype."

WICKEDfour · Apr 26, 2003, 01:13 PM

This rocks. I would take this up in a heartbeat. I already use ThemeChanger, and as far as I can see...This is definitely worth continuing. All the other themers are slow and too complicated.

invisibleX · Apr 26, 2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
Yep, now you also have to reinvent the "ugly hack" part of themeing. Good luck

Hint: you'll have big big big competition, it seems.

So does this mean Apple will finally do themes?

goMac · Apr 26, 2003, 04:30 PM

I think themes may show up in Panther. In Jaguar they moved all the icons to one central location (with the notable exception of some of the Finder icons). Apple created a brushed metal theme for all their apps (perhaps to keep the theme the same for Apple apps while allowing other apps to change themes? Perhaps Brushed Metal is a "safe ground"?). And the rumors of Apple bringing up Mac OS X up to par with Windows on customization certainly sound a lot like themes are in the cards.

Just my babble though. I think all these rumored big players may enter just to get crushed by Apple.

Angus_D · Apr 26, 2003, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by invisibleX:
So does this mean Apple will finally do themes?

Who knows? They have the architecture there, it would be very easy to do, but it's dubious.

(If anybody wasn't already aware, I am (was?) the lead architect on ThemeChanger)

Angus_D · Apr 26, 2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by goMac:
I think themes may show up in Panther. In Jaguar they moved all the icons to one central location (with the notable exception of some of the Finder icons).

I think it's just as likely this is part of their internal clean-up for the OS. I expect to see the implementations of AppKit and HIToolbox standardized at some point in the future, for example (with probably the former being implemented using the latter).

goMac · Apr 26, 2003, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Angus_D:
I think it's just as likely this is part of their internal clean-up for the OS. I expect to see the implementations of AppKit and HIToolbox standardized at some point in the future, for example (with probably the former being implemented using the latter).

Sure, but you have to admit they did it at least a little oddly. They threw them in a bundle with an identifier/info.plist/infoplist.strings and everything. It almost looks like in the future SystemIcons will actually assign system icons itself. Its not like Apple just threw the system icons in a folder.

As usual, just my babble.

:Edit: Add to that the fact that in Jaguar there is a system process managing icons, and it seems even odder.