[CarbonG4]

Have any of the other themers seen this issue yet and know whether or not it is now hard-coded or if I'm just overlooking something in the new Extras.rsrc?

The problem:


It is drawing the titlebar pxm correctly (in that I have square window edges), but as you can see the drop shadow for the window is rounded (in the shape of the default Panther titlebar). This is only apparent in the foreground titlebar from what I've tested.

Any ideas guys? I definitely won't be making or probably even supporting my current themes in Panther if this is the case.

//Carbon

[zachs]

Hmmm...I would think that the shadow is hard-coded. That sux.

[mrmister]

Remember that a lot of us run with our shadows off, courtesy of Unsanity.

[CarbonG4]

Further inconsistencies?? What is the deal w/ the Finder's brushed metal calls? Is it not calling the Extras.rsrc or is it just screwing up...

You can see what brushed is supposed to look like by looking at iChat, and then you see the Finder.... completely white, what's the deal:

click here for the screenshot

Is Apple purposefully doing this to piss us off, is it just because it's pre-release, or has their UI department just gone mad?

//Carbon

edit: i've made the screenshot a url now so as to make it easier to read bbx's letter, apparently my widescreen powerbook isn't wide enough

[qnxde]

hmm, I like the white finder

[sushiism]

hurrah that finder looks 100 times better than the crappy brushed metal mess

[Beer Penguin]

Finish Meteora please.

[bbxstudio]

Originally posted by CarbonG4:
Further inconsistencies?? What is the deal w/ the Finder's brushed metal calls? Is it not calling the Extras.rsrc or is it just screwing up...

You can see what brushed is supposed to look like by looking at iChat, and then you see the Finder.... completely white, what's the deal:

Is Apple purposefully doing this to piss us off, is it just because it's pre-release, or has their UI department just gone mad?

//Carbon

This is exactly what's had me so upset over the past week... the Finder doesn't support metal like any other app - anything other than original brushed seems impossible (just think of the variety of themes we'll have now). And yes, shadows for Aqua-style windows seem to be hard-coded, this means no squarish or anything-but-Aqua windows (again, very disappointing). And sorry, but no shadows is not a solution. I hate to say it, but we may be witnessing the end of theming in MacOSX before it really ever got off the ground.

This is exactly why I'm almost prepared to give up altogether at this point... I'd rather not theme at all if all we have to work with is more sh*t Aqua clones. And the thought of using Panther as is kind of makes me ill because it just feels so thrown together at this point. Think they'll improve it? Don't count on it - after all, 99% of people won't even notice it looks like garbage and Apple really just has to support their own needs. I think we're screwed.

[swiz]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
This is exactly what's had me so upset over the past week... the Finder doesn't support metal like any other app - anything other than original brushed seems impossible (just think of the variety of themes we'll have now). And yes, shadows for Aqua-style windows seem to be hard-coded, this means no squarish or anything-but-Aqua windows (again, very disappointing). And sorry, but no shadows is not a solution. I hate to say it, but we may be witnessing the end of theming in MacOSX before it really ever got off the ground.

This is exactly why I'm almost prepared to give up altogether at this point... I'd rather not theme at all if all we have to work with is more sh*t Aqua clones. And the thought of using Panther as is kind of makes me ill because it just feels so thrown together at this point. Think they'll improve it? Don't count on it - after all, 99% of people won't even notice it looks like garbage and Apple really just has to support their own needs. I think we're screwed.

I realize that this is the first preview of Panther but I really doubt we'll see them change these types of things into any form we can manipulate again. And I really think it is too much to ask users to get this or that little app so that my theme will look right on your machine. That being said, if Panther makes it impossible to display a theme exactly the way it was intended I will not be updating them for Panther. Id rather have no product available than one which is made inconsistent by new "features".

After all the discussion of Apple possibly embracing themes on OSX, I think they have made their opinion loud and clear... and its stepping all over my toes.

[iFix Rene]

oke my cool panther theme

its a small pic I am sorry
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/starfinde...c=ph%26.view=t

its uses elements from a well known theme guy so I can't give it away.

the finder is more or less white (very very light gray) and the other metal apps are more or less smooth gray

there are no stripes!

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
This is exactly what's had me so upset over the past week... the Finder doesn't support metal like any other app - anything other than original brushed seems impossible (just think of the variety of themes we'll have now). And yes, shadows for Aqua-style windows seem to be hard-coded, this means no squarish or anything-but-Aqua windows (again, very disappointing). And sorry, but no shadows is not a solution. I hate to say it, but we may be witnessing the end of theming in MacOSX before it really ever got off the ground.

This is exactly why I'm almost prepared to give up altogether at this point... I'd rather not theme at all if all we have to work with is more sh*t Aqua clones. And the thought of using Panther as is kind of makes me ill because it just feels so thrown together at this point. Think they'll improve it? Don't count on it - after all, 99% of people won't even notice it looks like garbage and Apple really just has to support their own needs. I think we're screwed.

It sure seems like Apple is trying to kill
theming without flat-out killing it. I think
We need to start some sort of site to protest
this and get Apple to hear us. If all of us GUI
guys ban together we just might be able to
get better theme support. Sites like ResEx I'm
sure would also help.
How I see it is, that may be out only chance of
ever improving the theme situation on OS X.
If you think it's pointless and you think I
should stop rambling let me know, but what's
the alternative?

[iFix Rene]

I managed to theme most icons in the finderwindow

check it out
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/starfinde...c=ph%26.view=t


two I cant figure out yet
the 'home' icon and the 'desktop' icon in sidebar

OK FIXED
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/starfinde...c=ph%26.view=t

I was thinking if when brushed made gray
that finder becomes white, this could give a clue perhaps as how to add texture to ichat
without adding it to Finder

oh i realized my themed screenshot would fit better in a nother thread, but sorry

[fireside]

how bout no one updates to Panther cause its horrible GUI sucks so badly. lets hope this is just for the dev preview. if not....

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by fireside:
how bout no one updates to Panther cause its horrible GUI sucks so badly. lets hope this is just for the dev preview. if not....

Well I'm not sure how effective that would be...

[kmkkid]

On the shadow issue:

Perhaps Apple has done this to make things faster. I would think hardcoded shadows that don't have to calculate the windows shape would be more efficient. I know it sucks, but if this is what they have planned, there's not much anyone can do - but protest it with a petition.


Chris

[bbxstudio]

As we speak I'm writing an open letter to Apple (almost done) - I'll post it here when it's finished. From there, I'll post it on my website and send off the link to ResEx, MacNN, Macintouch maybe - and for sure to Leander K at WIRED (who may reprint it or reference it as a follow-up to an article he did about Apple's stranglehold over their OS appearance). I'll also send a copy to Steve@mac.com (god knows if he reads his mail or not).

It's a good letter (you'll see), almost done...

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
As we speak I'm writing an open letter to Apple (almost done) - I'll post it here when it's finished. From there, I'll post it on my website and send off the link to ResEx, MacNN, Macintouch maybe - and for sure to Leander K at WIRED (who may reprint it or reference it as a follow-up to an article he did about Apple's stranglehold over their OS appearance). I'll also send a copy to Steve@mac.com (god knows if he reads his mail or not).

It's a good letter (you'll see), almost done...

Awesome. I wonder if we should all sign it or something?

So what are your plans for Mirai now? I'd love to use it now even if it's not perfect...

[OwlBoy]

Hmmm, take a step back and look how geeky you guys are .

Writing an open letter to apple because they decided to hard code shadows for speed.

-Owl

[bbxstudio]

Originally posted by OwlBoy:
Hmmm, take a step back and look how geeky you guys are .

Writing an open letter to apple because they decided to hard code shadows for speed.

-Owl

Like the speed benefits from hard-coded shadows on a G5 are going to make any appreciable difference.

Hey man, it's the geeks who change the world, isn't it? You feel like living in an utterly homogenous Aqua-fied wasteland for the next 10 years? Cuz that's what's at stake here. Apple's pulled the rug out from under our feet before we even got started. Call us crazy, call us geeks - but this is something we're all very passionate about and just about every theme designer is about ready to throw in the towel at his point - so yes, maybe an open letter seems sad to some people, but it's starting to look like theming OSX as an art form is dead in the water, so what would you have us do?

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Awesome. I wonder if we should all sign it or something?

So what are your plans for Mirai now? I'd love to use it now even if it's not perfect...

Not to be a pest, but I really want to know what you're plans are regarding Mirai as of now.

[bbxstudio]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Not to be a pest, but I really want to know what you're plans are regarding Mirai as of now.

Well at this point I'm still steaming ahead on it and hoping something positive happens with regards to Panther. Can't just give up on it altogether at this point. If it all goes to hell I'll tweak it up and release it for XP I guess. What else can I do?

[bbxstudio]

An open letter to Steve Jobs and Apple Computer

Dear Steve (and those who give Steve advice),

Take a glance at more than one person's computer screen and you'll be faced with a simple and undeniable truth - that just as no two people are exactly the same, so are no two user's desktops set up exactly alike. Your average Macintosh user doesn't think of his or her computer in terms of being a mere machine, but rather as a creative extension of his or herself - the ultimate outlet for self-expression. Because they can be so empowering, Macs have always been seen by their users as an extension of self, and as a result the overwhelming desire to inject one's own personality into the desktop experience has always been there. Over the years Mac users have tweaked their Mac's interface to varying degree in an effort to make it feel more personal and somehow uniquely their own. Something as simple as changing a desktop background, highlight color or hard drive icon has the uncanny ability to enchant an otherwise cold machine with a magical sense of warmth and personality. This process of customizing one's virtual workspace is a long-standing tradition on the Mac - spawning a virtual cottage industry between those who would dress up their Macs and those who would provide them with the means to do so. Unfortunately, recent developments signal that this tradition may very well be coming to an end of sorts. Mac users are slowly but surely losing the power to customize their beloved machines, thanks to none other than Apple Computer.

If one looks to the world of computing outside the Mac, one of course sees a world dominated by Windows. Now one could easily argue that the stock Windows is nowhere near as slick and friendly as MacOS X, but it does seem to have one glaring advantage over the current MacOS - it can be customized to whatever degree the end-user wishes. Users aren't stuck with the default appearance, but have the ability to customize their environment to the extreme. Applications like WindowBlinds and Hoverdesk allow PC users to choose from an endless variety of Windows makeover 'themes' - styles, shapes and surfaces to suit anybody's individual tastes. Media players like WinAmp and even Microsoft's own WindowsMediaPlayer allow the user to apply any number of unique 'skins'. Admittedly, the majority of stuff available tends to lack the fit and finish that most users will demand for everyday use - but occasionally a design will come along that rivals any commercial operating system in terms of its attention to detail and overall tight design sense. Hobbyists that have honed their skills with countless hours of tweaking and experimentation are contributing truly inspiring designs to thriving communities of enthusiastic users.

Installing a well-designed makeover gives the user a sensation not unlike driving a funky concept car or playing with a shiny new toy - fresh injection of novelty into an otherwise boring and functional appliance. It's a fun and rewarding experience for all involved, and it pumps up enthusiasm for the platform - especially among the young tech-savvy users that make up the majority of the audience - each one destined to become future customers, perhaps the nephew who's called upon for advice when purchasing a new computer. In this case, Microsoft will undoubtedly benefit from the free evangelism, the word of mouth and the overall 'cool factor' - it's in their best interest to encourage the proliferation of this grassroots phenomenon. The availability of themes and skins doesn't dilute the Windows experience to any appreciable degree, nor does it negatively impact the Windows identity in the marketplace - in fact, one could argue that it's become one of the reasons for many young people to think of Windows as a cool operating system. It simply makes Windows fun.

Apple used to have something very similar to this thriving grassroots free-hype community - in fact, as is the case with many things, the degree of customization we're now seeing available for Windows was originally pioneered on the Mac. Things like custom icons, desktop graphics and themes were birthed on the Mac and have been with us through the ups and downs. With utilities like Kaleidoscope, users were able to dress up their OS look like it were composed of liquid metal or carved from solid marble, would be interface designers would hone their craft and breed cool new ideas. Again, one had to dig a bit to find the gems - but Kaleidoscope was the breeding ground for many of the modern style concepts, shapes and surface effects that are clearly evident today in web design, the Windows custom GUI community and even in Apple's own designs for Aqua. When MacOS X was first revealed, Kaleidoscope enthusiasts and many thousands of customization-savvy users drooled at the possibilities - live dropshadows, alpha transparency, animations... the possibilities were endless and the talented Mac GUI community would thrive and innovate. Boy, were we wrong.

With the arrival of MacOS X, we of course understood that we would temporarily lose the ability wrap the OS in unique system-wide skins a la Kaleidoscope - an understandable situation given the fundamental changes to the underlying system. At the time, we didn't care so much - Aqua was cool and new and slick. Yet nearly 3 years and 3 major upgrades later, the average Mac user (by this point probably bored with Aqua) is still limited to changing his or her desktop background or pasting in custom icons. Beyond that, there's simply no appreciable way for the average user to personalize the desktop experience in MacOS X. Or is there?

Well, there was - a tiny but dedicated theme community quickly sprang up as soon as the MacOS X beta hit. By prying open the new OS to see how it ticked, they did what they could to provide those bent on customizing their desktop experience with the means to do so. Sympathetic developers created the tools, enthusiastic GUI artists struggled to squeeze their imaginations into the limited footprint that Aqua provided. With each new OS upgrade cycle, they would adapt to the changes and learn even more about the mysteries of Aqua. They made consolidated efforts to police themselves, taking care to leave the binaries and executables alone so as not to bring down the end-user's system, going so far as to develop installers that would fix 'borked' systems. Apple kept Aqua's API close to their chest, but for the most part they seemed to turn a blind eye to this fledgeling community. They weren't helping anybody or making it easy, but they didn't seem to want to lock anybody else out either. But now, all that has changed... and the next-generation of would-be MacOS GUI designers currently faces extinction or exodus from the platform.

When Panther was revealed, it didn't take long to figure out that it was undeniably hostile to themes. Strokes and dropshadows are hard-coded to Aqua's curved edges, making anything other than the standard Aqua titlebar shape impossible; the new Finder utilizes Quicktime-style metal fills differently than any other application that calls on the same resources, rendering many effects impossible to achieve and making consistency between the Finder and other 'metal' applications impossible; the list goes on. Although it's highly unlikely that Apple changed the way the system worked just to discourage themes, it is evident that theming on Mac OSX has been stopped in its tracks - and a promising community of die-hard enthusiasts will see their efforts to deliver the goods dashed on the rocks of progress. Sure, it's an unfinished developer preview of Panther - but it reeks of impending change.

It should be pointed out that many of the most prolific GUI designers on both platforms aren't necessarily kids - in fact, many of them are established and well-known designers and interface artists in their own right. Some have been courted by Apple's largest competitors to develop high-profile commercial interfaces, all based on the reputations they've built for themselves creating 'for fun' work on the Mac. In the Windows world, media player skins and OS themes are enjoying unprecedented popularity - they generate massive traffic and drum up downloads in the hundreds of thousands every week. Commercially, they're being used to hype co-branded partnerships, promotions, product launches, blockbuster movies, videogame titles, album releases - you name it. It's viral marketing at its best - and it's simply not happening on the Mac. A sad state of affairs considering that this is where it all started. Apple is sitting on a huge untapped source of homegrown talent and free hype for its platform. Judging by their behavior, one has to wonder if they even realize it.

Man cannot live by Aqua alone - eventually the natives will get restless. As pretty as Aqua may be, Apple's users will eventually tire of living in a homogenous Aqua-fied environment. But there is a solution - Apple should simply stand aside and make it possible for us to do what we love to do. Nobody is reasonably expecting Apple to embrace themes and skins or to create the tools to make them possible - but at this point they won't even reveal the workings of their API to potential developers. At the very least, they should contemplate fixing the obstacles introduced by Panther that stand to render their home-grown theming community deceased before it even really began. All great things grow from tiny seeds - the possibilities presented by features like Quartz extreme and system-wide alpha transparency could allow the Mac to become an unrivaled platform for innovative interface design. It would be more than a little sad if Apple were to dismiss the issue outright and let their fans dreams for their beloved platform whither on the vine.

Collectively - Apple's biggest fans and most vocal evangelists,
Those Who Would Theme Mac OSX

[bbxstudio]

Anybody who quotes the original in its entirety should be shot So yeah, this is it so far. Maybe it needs to be a little shorter, more personal, maybe a little more pleading. In any case, this is what I've come up with. Thoughts?

[Phazer80s]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Anybody who quotes the original in its entirety should be shot So yeah, this is it so far. Maybe it needs to be a little shorter, more personal, maybe a little more pleading. In any case, this is what I've come up with. Thoughts?

It's an excellent letter.

You don't mess around, BBX. It shows in your designs and in your rhetoric.

Let's hope Apple listens. Talk about resting on their laurels.

[ARENA]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
An open letter to Steve Jobs and Apple Computer
*SNIPPED*>

Great letter man!
I hope Apple reads it...i'm sure if they do thwy won't just ignore it.

[moofman]

Fantastic letter, man. Are you gonna try to get some sort of signing on it?





Honestly, if all we're really worrying about here is a curved drop-shadow, I think I could live with that. I would rather have the look I want with a slightly off drop-shadow than nothing at all. When it comes to the technicalities, I don't know anything about theming, but if a shadow is what this is all about... well, I guess I'm saying not to throw the baby out with the bath water. I can live with a curved shadow for the next "10 years", but the same face on my computer? That's a bit much...

[970]

I totally disagree with that letter, and would not support it for anything. It's Apple's Operating System, and you do not own it or control it no matter what you have come to believe. If you don't like Aqua, then you don't have to use it. Let the legions of XP ignorants "customize" their crapcans to all their desire. It will still look as ugly as can be and no significant amount of people will care.

I think 98% of all themes are ugly and a waste, and so theming will be nothing that I will miss.

[Kate]

Originally posted by 970:
I think 98% of all themes are ugly and a waste, and so theming will be nothing that I will miss.

...well, there are people who feel that Aqua is right in those 98% you're mentioning. And they have more reasonable arguments on their side than you care to provide to support your view of things.

Or are you just trolling some fun in your life??

[sushiism]

great letter i really hope it changes things, although I don't use themes yet I used to use them in my windows days so I really don't want to see them die in osx because I could wake up tomorrow and really hate aqua and love a theme. Maybe you should mention how much more talent there is in the mac icon scene than the windows icon scene, thus there should be more talent in the mac theme scene (i think there is seen as you've managed to hack it all in yourselves while the windows lot use stuff like windowblinds that come with instructions ) THUS! lots of really interesting mac desktops posted on the internet (see things such as deviantart desktop section) equals good viral marketing and such thus more cash for apple. The windows lot are always saying how all osx desktops look the same

[mrtew]

Originally posted by 970:
I totally disagree with that letter, and would not support it for anything. It's Apple's Operating System, and you do not own it or control it no matter what you have come to believe. If you don't like Aqua, then you don't have to use it. Let the legions of XP ignorants "customize" their crapcans to all their desire. It will still look as ugly as can be and no significant amount of people will care.

I think 98% of all themes are ugly and a waste, and so theming will be nothing that I will miss.

WOW! You are a very valuable addition to the theming forum. We need a lot more people here to tell us how much we suck and how exactly we are screwing up something that is perfect and isn't even ours to touch. If we ever forget your wize words and again begin customizing 'our' computers, please remind us how much we are like Windoze users and we will try harder to swallow the mess that we feel Aqua is becoming.

[Mac Guru]

Originally posted by mrtew:
WOW! You are a very valuable addition to the theming forum. We need a lot more people here to tell us how much we suck and how exactly we are screwing up something that is perfect and isn't even ours to touch. If we ever forget your wize words and again begin customizing 'our' computers, please remind us how much we are like Windoze users and we will try harder to swallow the mess that we feel Aqua is becoming.

Actually I agree with him to a degree, themeing tools are getting better every day, why not WAIT until you have a REAL FINAL OS, to write a letter that most likely will be sent directly from the Inbox to the Trash. Giving up all hope based solely on predictions on the future based on a Developer Beta that's not even complete is foolish.

Sure the shadows and things may be hard coded, but has hard coded data stopped customization before, NO (Wait Cursors, Mouse Pointers, BootX, etc..)

Someone will find a way and more than likely, it will become a peice of the pie and themes WILL continue to be possible.

You're only kidding yourself if you pretend to be shocked by this turn of events. Apple has made it know that they do not support themes, so one could only see that this was inevitable.

A letter won't help, and neither will a petition.

I'll be updating QNX for Panther. Here's hoping you guys keep it up too.

Mac Guru

[sushiism]

but if we wait for panther to come out then they wont change anything and i cant really see thme taking a step backwards with the next version of osx which we'd have to wait a year for and by then themeing would be long dead Personally i think we should do all we can now before the thing is 100% finalised and hopefully get rid of that godawful brushed metal finder mess

[kmkkid]

Originally posted by 970:
I totally disagree with that letter, and would not support it for anything. It's Apple's Operating System, and you do not own it or control it no matter what you have come to believe. If you don't like Aqua, then you don't have to use it. Let the legions of XP ignorants "customize" their crapcans to all their desire. It will still look as ugly as can be and no significant amount of people will care.

I think 98% of all themes are ugly and a waste, and so theming will be nothing that I will miss.

Talk about ignorant...

My Windows box is NOT the least bit ugly thank you very much. And the hundreds of thousands of people who downloaded my theme alone will tell you who cares about theming their OS.


Chris

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Anybody who quotes the original in its entirety should be shot So yeah, this is it so far. Maybe it needs to be a little shorter, more personal, maybe a little more pleading. In any case, this is what I've come up with. Thoughts?

Great letter! I just hope they take the time to read it. I think you should get Mirai out and use it as an example of themeing art along with the other gret Max and Swiz themes.

I say even if we do find a way around our panther theme problems, Apple is still going to keep the GUI closed and may make it even harder to theme latter on. Themeing on Jag isn't peachy ether. A letter to Apple is in order even if themeing is possable, they need to know we want themes. I don't think a final ver of Panther will change anything, and if they do change it how do you know it will be for the better?

[TheIceMan]

bbxstudio:
A VERY well-written letter. Very professional and it addressed the topic head-on. I really like what you wrote Billy. And as a consumer and user of themes, I am 110% behind you and others like Swiz (Kevin), bOOzo (Max), mrTew (John), Takashi Izawa (creator of Shinobi theme), Daisuke Yamashita, carbon (Brandon), Charles Ludwig, and so many of the talented themers on the Mac OSX platform.

[swiz]

You get these squared shadows if you resize a Finder window quickly sometimes. So maybe square shadows are hiding somewhere in a plist or maybe Im just reaching.

[Mac Guru]

A letter to Apple is in order

No it's not, write steve a letter, write the whole GUI team at Apple a letter and see what happens... nada, it's going straight for the waste basket.

Seriously guys, what you think you are doing is defeatist, it would be like writing a personal email to bill gates telling him the way he dresses is nerdy... he'd laugh foe a second, then trash the email.

Waste of time... sorry guys but I think focusing on Jag (since it's the OS we have) is the only thing TO DO, and just wait this thing out till we HAVE Panther.

Mac Guru

[quandarry]

Originally posted by swiz:


You get these squared shadows if you resize a Finder window quickly sometimes. So maybe square shadows are hiding somewhere in a plist or maybe Im just reaching.

so it actually may be a bug and not something they planned.

[bbxstudio]

Well, as it turns out I may have been able to attain a direct method of getting a message to Steve or someone at Apple who may have some sway. This giant thing he won't read through, so I'm going to write a personal email (I'm not dazed, I realize full well he probably won't be the one to read it) and see if I get any sort of response. Failing that, I'll be creating a website along the lines of this letter with links and illustrations that demonstrate just how far behind the curve Apple actually is on this issue and include an online petition. Whether or not it will have any effect, I have no idea - but it might get somebody to sit up and take notice in any case.

For those naysayers who think we're wasting our time, you obviously have the right to say as much... but I think just sitting back and doing nothing and waiting for the hammer to fall is precisely the sort of attitude that will lead down a path that can't be reversed. Are we wasting our time? Perhaps - but I simply can't sit idle and wait knowing that I might have been able to get somebody to think about it even.

Who knows, maybe what we're seeing in this preview release is a placeholder - perhaps they've got next-generation metal and Aqua just waiting in the wings for the big event. I certainly hope so, but if what we have now is what we're going to get in the final release this whole theming thing might as well end with a bang rather than peter out into a sad trickle of so-called themes comprised of nothing more than stock Aqua with different buttons styles.

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
For those naysayers who think we're wasting our time, you obviously have the right to say as much... but I think just sitting back and doing nothing and waiting for the hammer to fall is precisely the sort of attitude that will lead down a path that can't be reversed. Are we wasting our time? Perhaps - but I simply can't sit idle and wait knowing that I might have been able to get somebody to think about it even.

Who knows, maybe what we're seeing in this preview release is a placeholder - perhaps they've got next-generation metal and Aqua just waiting in the wings for the big event. I certainly hope so, but if what we have now is what we're going to get in the final release this whole theming thing might as well end with a bang rather than peter out into a sad trickle of so-called themes comprised of nothing more than stock Aqua with different buttons styles.

Well said, that's just how I feel about the issue.

Hay if you're going to make a site, could you make a cool link button for us gui guys to put on our sites?

[Mac Guru]

I'll be creating a website along the lines of this letter with links and illustrations that demonstrate just how far behind the curve Apple actually is on this issue and include an online petition.

Go for it, but DON'T put a darned PETITION on there PLEASE!!! you can make your point loud and clear with graphical proof and words and if you want it to seem as though you have a ton of support, do a banner swap, DON'T do a petition...Petition's only hold power when they are on paper with legally binding signatures... joeschmoe@website.com is not legally a signature and without tangible proof that he signed it, it holds NO weight. If you want a petition, type one up and get people to sign it with a pen.

Mac Guru

[Awimoway]

I don't post much in themes because I don't make them, but I do use them.

Although I think using themes is a fun way of asserting my own personal mark on my computer, the main reason they are very important to me is because I have acute light sensitivity and I find it difficult to read anything on pinstripes. Fortunately, I can use darker themes and get by quite nicely. I would be very disappointed to see theme be wiped out.

[bbxstudio]

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
Go for it, but DON'T put a darned PETITION on there PLEASE!!!

Point well taken

Okay - so it's done. I've written a tighter, shorter, more direct and personal correspondance and sent it off. We'll see what happens (if anything), but I'm thinking Apple will tend to place more credibility in the points put forward by an individual who produces this kind of work for their direct competitors (and has a solid understanding of the demographics invloved and potential opportunities down the line) than they will in the collective desperate cries of our little grassroots community. For the time being, please disregard my angrier (and much longer) letter until things play out for awhile. I'll leave it up for posterity, but please don't link to it externally or anything until further notice (at which point a more focused and consolidated effort will be initiated).

Thanks for all opinions (except that one guy - what was he doing in here, anyways?) - they were very helpful.

[quandarry]

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Point well taken
<snip>
Thanks for all opinions (except that one guy - what was he doing in here, anyways?) - they were very helpful.

i think that one guy was actually steve jobs...so you may have your answer allready!

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by quandarry:
i think that one guy was actually steve jobs...so you may have your answer allready!

Could be!

Anyway, that letter is great and I hope Steve Jobs will get a chance to read it.

I agree with MacGuru about Petition being a weak attempt at getting their attention. It almost never worked.

[iFix Rene]

hi

I think we might be going overboard here..
I managed to make PERFECTLY square windows top and bottom corners, you just
have to edit the metal masks and metal bevels correctly. About the shadow staying round..
I think they just havent come round to square
shadows yet, coz even apps that have square corners naturally (like sys prefs) have round shadows in this build and I do not believe they will leave it like that... if they would hard code it they would hard code it right I think.


I also managed to get Finder and ichat, etc
eactly the smae shade (light pinstripe gray at the moment, LOL) I achieved this by making
metal gradient resource black mask and all, maybe this will
shed some light?

[bbxstudio]

Originally posted by iFix Rene:
I think they just havent come round to square shadows yet, coz even apps that have square corners naturally (like sys prefs) have round shadows in this build and I do not believe they will leave it like that... if they would hard code it they would hard code it right I think.

So eventually Aqua will know if it's building a shadow for a square window or a round window? How will it know once you've altered the resources? I don't think this is something the system is capable of.

About the only thing we can be sure of at this point is that something is up with the shadows. I think they were best as they were before, because then the shadow would even behave properly for windows with notched or beveled corners.

[bbxstudio]

Originally posted by iFix Rene:
I also managed to get Finder and ichat, etc
eactly the smae shade (light pinstripe gray at the moment, LOL) I achieved this by making
metal gradient resource black mask and all, maybe this will
shed some light?

I tried that long before I gave up hope - now try making that Metal Gradient resource display in the Finder in anything other than grayscale.

[iFix Rene]

I am not a themer perse but in 10.2 if you (for instance) make a square window round doesnt the shadow automatically adjust? Or does one have to alter the shadow too?

I would think the OS took care of that by having two shadow res, round and square


BBX, i am not sure waht you mean by
' nnow try making that Metal Gradient resource display in the Finder in anything other than grayscale.'

...my Finder looks perfectly pinstriped with
square corners'

(oh I get it I think, pinstriped is grayscale, duh, stoopid me, LOL)

[iFix Rene]

oke, I am now convinced that the shadow issue will be fixed (pretty convinced)

In this build active windows have round
shadows whether they have square or round
(bottom)corners.

however, inactive windows have correct
shading, square inactive square shadow,
round inactive round shadow.

so the latter do do what they should, so
I see no reason why active windows wouldnt.