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bbxstudio · Jul 30, 2003, 12:38 PM

" - A simplified Aqua look is available for the Finder, instead of brushed metal. In that case, there's no toolbar on top, nor any column on the side."

- from a report on MacBoudille, a french rumor site with a good track record discussing the latest Panther developer seed. Thank the gods (plural), it looks like Apple's actually listening (or just fixing the crap the rushed for WWDC). In any case, it looks like the ability to produce original themes for Panther may actually come to pass. Now back to work...

NetworkShadow · Jul 30, 2003, 12:51 PM

Amen! By the way where's your new theme?

sushiism · Jul 30, 2003, 01:25 PM

ohh thats wonderful new although it would be better if you could have a toolbar in that mode (dont really care about the sidebar because i dont use col view.
If its true i shall buy panther after all

quandarry · Jul 30, 2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
" - A simplified Aqua look is available for the Finder, instead of brushed metal. In that case, there's no toolbar on top, nor any column on the side."

- from a report on MacBoudille, a french rumor site with a good track record discussing the latest Panther developer seed. Thank the gods (plural), it looks like Apple's actually listening (or just fixing the crap the rushed for WWDC). In any case, it looks like the ability to produce original themes for Panther may actually come to pass. Now back to work...

this is also available in the wwdc release...just push the gummi bear toolbar button on the upper right side of the window...there has been some confusion on this in many forums...only mega bug fixes have been addressed...too many to mention...so says apple...

Zimphire · Jul 30, 2003, 05:22 PM

Yeah it does this now. Smooth move on Apple's part.

version · Aug 1, 2003, 09:02 AM

There might be a way of displaying the toolbar without the sideabar, it was possible in the WWDC release. This is what to try: press the widget on the left of the titlebar to get rid of the side/toolbar, then go to view/show toolbar, and voila!! Might still work in the 7b21 release.

Cerbero · Aug 1, 2003, 10:06 AM

Does anyone have a screenshot of how this looks?

Zimphire · Aug 1, 2003, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by version:
There might be a way of displaying the toolbar without the sideabar, it was possible in the WWDC release. This is what to try: press the widget on the left of the titlebar to get rid of the side/toolbar, then go to view/show toolbar, and voila!! Might still work in the 7b21 release.

Nope, brushed metal.

Dace · Aug 1, 2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by sushiism:
ohh thats wonderful new although it would be better if you could have a toolbar in that mode (dont really care about the sidebar because i dont use col view.
If its true i shall buy panther after all

The sidebar isn't for column view only...think of it as a vertical toolbar.

NetworkShadow · Aug 1, 2003, 04:37 PM

ohh thats wonderful new although it would be better if you could have a toolbar in that mode (dont really care about the sidebar because i dont use col view.
If its true i shall buy panther after all

The sidebar is more space efficient and easy to see than the toolbar, it wouldn't make any sense not to upgreat because there is no toolbar, and the new iApps only work on the current OS. Boycotting Panther over there being no Toolbar would be absurd.

Also col view is the best thing to ever happen to Mac Finder.

quandarry · 02:45 PM

.

sushiism · Aug 3, 2003, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
The sidebar is more space efficient and easy to see than the toolbar, it wouldn't make any sense not to upgreat because there is no toolbar, and the new iApps only work on the current OS. Boycotting Panther over there being no Toolbar would be absurd.

Also col view is the best thing to ever happen to Mac Finder.

it takes up more space and its no easier to use than the toolbar, i only use itunes and iphoto at the moment so that doesnt bother me and theres nothing else that really interests me about panther apart from the ability to view fonts without installing them and fontbook. So not that absurd really seen as i spend a decent amount of time in finder and im not prepared to spend that time looking at stupid graphically noisy brushed metal. But i dont mind having os9 style browsing but i would like the option to have it just like in jag seen as thats what we've been using for the past 2 years or whatever. And nah col view isnt, it has some extremely annoying quirks like the way it doesnt stay focused on the column your using

bbxstudio · Aug 3, 2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by quandarry:
[B]

finder aqua mode

Hmmm... guess there's no way to get rid of the status bar now, huh? Nice.

[B]

square titlebar shadow

Is it just me, or does this look wonky? I'm actually seeing a round titlebar shadow under the square titlebar.

[B]

theme applied

Ouch... looks like it's either a badly drawn mask or a non-Aqua curve miscue with a hard-coded shadow. The pattern filling that status bar looks pretty chattery as well - looks like the same hellish 4x4 repeat fill pattern used by System Prefs. Color me unimpressed, but Panther still seems like it will be a nightmare to theme with non-Apple styles.

quandarry · Aug 3, 2003, 09:17 PM

shadow detail close up...

iFix Rene · 11:27 AM

basically the only way to have a non-brushed
finder in b21 is if you NEVER use toolbar/side
bar... so no handy shortcuts or searchfields
etc

the rounded shadow versus square window
has been discussed in another thread...

if you examine shadows of in windows in 10.2
closely you will see that also in 10.2 shadows
are round for square windows... only one
shadow type for round and square.
somehow it's less obvious.

bbxstudio · Aug 4, 2003, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by iFix Rene:
the rounded shadow versus square window
has been discussed in another thread...

So now it's being discussed in this one, what's your point?

This thread is discussing the latest seed not WWDC preview, no?

if you examine shadows of in windows in 10.2
closely you will see that also in 10.2 shadows
are round for square windows... only one
shadow type for round and square.
somehow it's less obvious. [/B]

Nope - the shadow in 10.2 is adaptive, but the blur makes it look rounded... perhaps I should have stressed that the shadow/stroke combo appears to be hard-coded... the stroke in 10.2 conforms to window shape, in Panther it's hard-coded - if you look at your shots the stroke disappears behind the square corner. There doesn't seem to be a contrast issue in these shots because you have a light window on a deep blue background - try popping your square window on a background the same color as the titlebar and see if there's a contrast issue.

iFix Rene · 06:58 AM

I wasnt making any particular point

only that also in 10.2 all shadows are round
wich is plain to see in this blowup

the other thing is new and bothersome though,
that round window top corners seem to have
a hardcoded stroke
as highlighted in this pic

quandarry · Aug 29, 2003, 02:41 PM

just checking out the extras rsrc from the latest panther seed [7B49]...

they've fiddled around with the resessed window buttons and managed to screw up...
the close button has flaws when being pushed in...and on the graphite side the shrink to dock button looks like a blob in it's normal state...

makes you wonder...

bbxstudio · Aug 29, 2003, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by quandarry:
just checking out the extras rsrc from the latest panther seed [7B49]...

they've fiddled around with the resessed window buttons and managed to screw up...
the close button has flaws when being pushed in...and on the graphite side the shrink to dock button looks like a blob in it's normal state...

makes you wonder...

Certainly does... it's been apparent from the WWDC release of Panther that Apple's OS GUI team is either being extremely sloppy or is being headed by somebody new without a clue. If it's still nasty on final release I'll take the time to point out its more glaring flaws in an online article or something. Part of me still thinks this stuff is the result of the current UI design being a placeholder for something altogether new (optimism or self-delusion?). I guess we'll see for sure at Apple expo Paris.

Zimphire · Aug 29, 2003, 11:54 PM

This is in 7B49

Look at the middle button. All the apps and the Finder display it this way.

Weird.

quandarry · Aug 30, 2003, 09:12 AM

bbxstudio · Aug 30, 2003, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
This is in 7B49

Weird.

Sad.

mrtew · Aug 30, 2003, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Sad.

I don't think so. I agree with what you said before. I think it's a sign that things are changing. It's kinda weird to think that Apple would preview Panther and then change the look before it's released but they must be messing with something to get the pxms THIS farked up. I mean I've made so BAD mistakes theming but at least all my widgets have always matched eachother. Geez, they must be doing some kind of major overhaul.

NetworkShadow · Aug 30, 2003, 09:03 PM

Apple needs people like us to design the GUI for Panther.

quandarry · Aug 31, 2003, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by mrtew:
they must be doing some kind of major overhaul.

i don't think so...why would they add all those extra aqua stuff...all the mini bits and pieces?

what they were up to when they screwed up on the window widgets was changing their size a touch...

but hey!...wishful thinking...i hope you'all are correct!

Modro · Sep 1, 2003, 08:33 AM

Well, before the "What are they thinking!" crowd gets too out of hand..

Please keep in mind that this is Apple. The same company that will toss cost cutting out the window just to sheath their computers in aluminum cases, include stainless steel pivoting arms on their consumer desktops, and are known for their attention to detail.

Also keep in mind, that this is a BETA OS. What good would it serve apple, to include the widgets they intend on shipping with, and having absolutely no surprises when the OS is actually released.

In case you've forgotten, stuff like the apple logo startup screen (It was a blue hello screen), the rainbow colored beachball icon (it also, was blue) and a bunch of other details were different in the Jaguar Beta.

I think it is kind of a pointless activity to be pointing out GUI design flaws in a Beta OS. This is apple, have some faith here. Do you honestly think they would ship an inconsistant OS with a buggy gui?

Kate · Sep 3, 2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Modro:
.....Do you honestly think they would ship an inconsistant OS with a buggy gui?

They didn't mind doing so in recent releases, well actually not that bad, but bad enough to hurt the "attention to detail" attitude.

Examples? Look at the various states of the resize triangle, missing gui elements when horizontal and vertical scroll bars meet in the lower right corner, shifted scroll bars and buttons of console app...to name but a few.

quandarry · Sep 4, 2003, 02:04 PM

just came across this...look closely...

scroll down a bit
http://www.appleinsider.com/news/

Kate · Sep 4, 2003, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by quandarry:
just came across this...look closely...

scroll down a bit
http://www.appleinsider.com/news/

...hm, I didn't do it. Someone from here?

Anyway, what's a "cleaver hack"?
Supposed to mean "clever hack"? Or is there a pun unknown to me???

NetworkShadow · Sep 4, 2003, 11:19 PM

It's the new build of safari for Panther. ^^

Kate · Sep 5, 2003, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
It's the new build of safari for Panther. ^^

It better be so in the final release.

*metal-GUI-gripes*

quandarry · 06:22 PM

http://www.appleinsider.com/news/

Just when it seemed as if Apple had frozen its alterations to the new Mac OS X 10.3 Panther interface, information from reliable sources paints a different picture. Reportedly, the company has recently implemented a slew of additional system animations in builds 7B80 and 7B81 of the next-generation OS.

The Mac OS install process has also seen a number of revisions, including system-wide window alterations that reflect 'grayer' tint in areas that previously sported an aqua-like feel. This move seems to be consistent with the metallic scheme Apple intents to present with Mac OS X 10.3.

In the meantime, the rest of the Panther team appears to be focused on bug fixes and system optimization. The latest builds are said to boast 'sizzling' speed improvements -- from user installation to interaction -- over previously seeded builds. This optimization will continue until the software reaches final candidate status.

Interface alterations in the later stages of the development process usually bear less risk of creating new system issues and provide a way for the company to keep visual enhancements under-wraps until the last possible moment.

Apple's adoption of the Brushed Aluminum System theme has steadily increased since it first appeared in builds of QuickTime Media Player several years ago. The interface scheme now spans almost all of the company's consumer applications, and with the launch of Mac OS X 10.3 Panther, will encompass the system's Finder windows as well.

Unfortunately for Apple, these cosmetic alterations have been met with mixed results. Some users -- flat out -- just don't like it, or the inconsistency it brings to the primarily Aqua-based Mac OS X interface. One avid Mac OS X user has gone as far as creating an online petition asking Apple to drop the theme or provide users an easy way to turn it off.

Meanwhile, a new source tells AppleInsider that Apple's Human Interface division has been busy creating a revised version of the aluminum theme for inclusion in an update to Mac OS X 10.3 (or possibly Mac OS X 10.4) sometime next year. "The revision exists as simply nothing more than a prototype, at the moment," the source says. It's rumored to be 'slightly darker' and 'smoother' than the current theme. Other alterations include tweaking of the dark-faced font and buttons that constitute interactive portions of the theme.

bbxstudio · Sep 26, 2003, 08:22 PM

Yeah, I saw that too - I knew the WWDC Aqua was too mutant to survive.

clarkgoble · Sep 29, 2003, 06:31 PM

Hmm. If that's the new Safari for Panther then I've finally found something in Panther I hate. Its tabs look like Camino tabs with a Panther theme rather than Safari tabs. I liked the way Safari did its tabs.

NetworkShadow · Sep 29, 2003, 07:32 PM

Well it seems to be using the system resources, so it would match themes better, well I should hope.

neoTony · Sep 29, 2003, 07:36 PM

Uhhh, where did that image come from? That looks like a hacked version of Camino to me... right down to the messy handling of Panther's new tabs. Safari is highly unlikely to change before release...

Liquidity X · Sep 29, 2003, 10:06 PM

in 7b80, safari is as it is now, brushed with normal tabs.