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drnkn_stylz · Sep 5, 2003, 07:13 PM

Okay, I was looking at this theme today, and I came to the conclution I *almost* love it. I say almost because I think it's too round (menus, title bars etc.). I think it would be a kick ass idea if the almighty themer William Bart could make a "flat" version of BBX Mercury. I don't know how to make themes, so this is why I ask. It can't be that hard to modify an existing theme into the said idea thogh. Also, this just might be the way to tide over the theme fiends until William's new theme unveiling.

...Just a thought.

NetworkShadow · Sep 5, 2003, 07:39 PM

Well Max has control over that type of thing right now I think, he's made changes to it in the past...
I'm not sure if it would look good flat though.

mrtew · Sep 5, 2003, 09:09 PM

I kinda agree. I know the titlebars are supposed to have a reflection of a horizon line on them, but to me they always look like they are two-tone white and gray. Even the buttons look too shiny to me. I don't want to overstep my bounds by critiquing other people's themes, but I bet a 'semi-gloss' BBX-Mercury would look GREAT!

drnkn_stylz · Sep 6, 2003, 03:26 PM

Oops I forgot Max was in control of BBX:M now! Well, either way I think a flat version would be nice. If Max isn't up to it, maybe someone else should try and modify it (with his permission of course). I can't stand how everything in that theme is so round, yet it's so good.

NetworkShadow · Sep 6, 2003, 09:11 PM

Though it may not be as good if it's flat... no way to know until someone does a mockup.

bbxstudio · Sep 6, 2003, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by drnkn_stylz:
Oops I forgot Max was in control of BBX:M now!

Bzzzzzzzzt... not exactly - I gave Max the go ahead to do a port of the original to OSX (a remix to suit the limitations of the new system, of course)... but while Max maintains control of his own remix to some extent, the BBX Mercury 'look' is still my baby. I don't mind it the way he has it now, but I'd have issues with tinkering with the signature gradients or major elements... you'll just have to wait for the sequel I guess. As always, anybody is free to twist it to suit their own needs for their own machine, but any sharing or redistribution of the results is strictly verboten, unfortunately.

NetworkShadow · Sep 6, 2003, 11:47 PM

I wasn't sure how lose you were on Mercury's development.
I think it's fine they way it is though I liked the old small widgets better than Max's new ones.

mrtew · Sep 7, 2003, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
As always, anybody is free to twist it to suit their own needs for their own machine, but any sharing or redistribution of the results is strictly verboten, unfortunately.

I kind of understand your feelings and those of other themers that feel like you do, but you DO understand how hypocritical you sound don't you? Once side of your mouth is demanding that Apple let us fsck with their copyrighted theme 24 hours a day, insisting that it's our RIGHT to do whatever we want with OUR computers, and the other side of your mouth is proclaiming that your own theme is sacred, legally protected work that can't be touched, altered or redistributed in any way without your written and verbal consent.

You do understand how ridiculous that is don't you?

catsank · Sep 7, 2003, 07:57 AM

Did anyone see that movie 'Pirates of the caribbean' - they had an expression
for a common understanding between pirates 'a single law for the lawless' ( parley )
What I think bbxStudio is saying - within such a small MacOX theming community -
he is asking for that kind of understanding or unwritten code between themer's
and the theme hackers - not to steal his already stolen/adapted plunder.

And Tewksbury ( theme hacker extraordinaire) is saying
how archaic and un-enforceable that really is.

mrtew · Sep 7, 2003, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by catsank:
bbxStudio is saying - within such a small MacOX theming community -
he is asking for that kind of understanding or unwritten code between themer's and the theme hackers - not to steal his already stolen/adapted plunder.

And Mrtew is saying how archaic and un-enforceable that really is.

uhhh....... Exactly! You are a very insightful guy! And I bet if themeing ever became popular there would be a subset of theme-hackers that would take themes and redo them and assert their right to do so and run their owns sites where they distributed them and rail against the themers that try to stop them!

Zimphire · Sep 7, 2003, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by mrtew:
uhhh....... Exactly! You are a very insightful guy! And I bet if themeing ever became popular there would be a subset of theme-hackers that would take themes and redo them and assert their right to do so and run their owns sites where they distributed them and rail against the themers that try to stop them!

And these people would be known as The Jerks of the theming community.

Soon these people would tick off the ones that actually had the talent to do the original themes in the first place, and then the theming community would just consist of no talent hacks. HURRAY!

quandarry · Sep 7, 2003, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by mrtew:
uhhh....... Exactly! You are a very insightful guy! And I bet if themeing ever became popular there would be a subset of theme-hackers that would take themes and redo them and assert their right to do so and run their owns sites where they distributed them and rail against the themers that try to stop them!

i don't really remember what mercury really looked like...i took it for a test flight a long time ago but returned to my regularly scheduled program about 30 minutes or so later...i think bbx is afraid people will aquafy it [gawd forbid] and make it morer prettier...

i also believe max can do any dang thing he wants with it...i think he should do what swiz does...do a swizified version...

this is to the hackers [modifiers] of themes: keep it up...i've seen many that are better than than the originals...

i wish there was a site with all the modded themes available...maybe when some person here gets really pissed and says screw all you assholes...well you can guess what might happen...

i'm on my way over to max's and check out the preview of mercury and see why bbx has got his gonads in a knot...

bbxstudio · Sep 7, 2003, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
And these people would be known as The Jerks of the theming community.

Soon these people would tick off the ones that actually had the talent to do the original themes in the first place, and then the theming community would just consist of no talent hacks. HURRAY!

Exactly... if it were suddenly considered open season on original designs, myself and many others would bow out for good - there would be very few if any original designs to kick around any more.

The argument that I'm ripping off Apple so it's okay for anybody to rip me is patently absurd... programmers must rely on frameworks created by Apple in order to produce commercial software - does this mean it's okay to take their software, twist and then redistribute it? Hardly... the only difference here is that Apple hasn't specifically endorsed the use of the particular frameworks one must use to theme the OS. Then again, they haven't objected - they see this as a grass-roots free evangelism thing that drums up popularity for the OS in markets they can't afford to support... stating ' go ahead, theme the OS - here are the tools' would create more problems than it would be worth from their perspective.

With an original theme like Mercury, the entire design is built in Photoshop first and contains 100% original pixels, it's designed almost as an imaginary OS... there's not one pixel pulled from Apple's original graphics. By necessity, certain proportions and the placement of discreet elements must mimic the host OS - but I'd hardly call that 'ripping off' Apple or Aqua. It has nothing to do with honour among thieves in the case of an original theme, it has to do with respecting the guys spending countless hours and blood sweat and tears to dream this stuff up for you in the first place.

Aqua-derived themes might fall into the moral quagmire you refer to, but not 100% original designs like Mercury. You'll never convince me otherwise

Zimphire · Sep 7, 2003, 12:41 PM

Right, I think they are trying to justify the actions of the lame.

If you want to modify a theme for your own personal usage, nothing is stopping you.

But trying to give it out and release it makes you lame.

No matter HOW hard you try to justify it.

Even if it was just a Aqua hack, taking another person's idea to use as your own is just as lame.

Originality people. Only the lame are unoriginal.

catsank · Sep 7, 2003, 03:07 PM

The original themes you guys are talking about are like haute-couture dress makers -
They have a season in the sun and then every chain store rips'em.

But most who mod their mac's use Smoothstripes or a simple variant of aqua -
(imho) - only the bored and lonely use haute-couture to go down the shops.

BBX Mercury has some really outstanding elements and as a whole,
incredibly original - as the entire OS9 BBXStudio was - But like so many i feel
- it ain't designed for day to day use - too much ( really only a little ) wrong with it.

Document window 'Title Bars' are Rollbars and are just too big and distracting.

The titlebar widgets/buttons are really painful - almost like being in a window's
only world.

Platinum or Aqua Close/Collapse/Zoom buttons almost define a mac interface -
anything else (imho) is wrong .

- My babies do not need or want to wear fancy dress in order to cook-up a little bacon.

Zimphire · Sep 7, 2003, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by catsank:
The original themes you guys are talking about are like haute-couture dress makers -
They have a season in the sun and then every chain store rips'em.

And the people who ripped them and wear them knock offs usually get made fun of.

But most who mod their mac's use Smoothstripes or a simple variant of aqua -
(imho) - only the bored and lonely use haute-couture to go down the shops.

Actually I made SimpleAqua from Aqua. SmoothStripes didn't exist at the time.

BBX Mercury has some really outstanding elements and as a whole,
incredibly original - as the entire OS9 BBXStudio was - But like so many i feel
- it ain't designed for day to day use - too much ( really only a little ) wrong with it.

Then don't use it. Make your own

There is no excuse for someone not coming up with a original idea, instead of ripping off someone else's.

catsank · Sep 7, 2003, 04:09 PM

Hey Zimp ( Love what you do here at Macnn - big fan, really big ! )

I have no-opinion on the question should themers have rights
or not to their work once it's out of their grubby hands.
Do not use any themes except from 'The Swiz' and ButtO'Sigh
and am happy with what I got from them.

I was giving an unsolicited critique of the BBX Mercury
theme and why some, i have spoken to - like me - don't use it ;)

But thanks, to be cut-up 'jack the ripper' style
by you is always a pleasure.

quandarry · 04:41 PM

my bbxmercury fix....

i call it freddiemercury!

copyright by me cuz nobody else has put stolen parts from aqua and bbxmercury together like this on my mac.

do not fold, spindle or staple or remove label under penalty of law!

mrtew · Sep 7, 2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by quandarry:
my bbxmercury fix....

i call it freddiemercury!

I have a feeling that we just lost one of our most prolific OSX themers!

catsank · Sep 7, 2003, 04:43 PM

Tewksbury says...

"I have a feeling that we just lost one of our most prolific OSX themers!"

Who died ?

quandarry · Sep 7, 2003, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by mrtew:
I have a feeling that we just lost one of our most prolific OSX themers!

no i'm still around...

Zimphire · 05:18 PM

Originally posted by catsank:
Hey Zimp ( Love what you do here at Macnn - big fan, really big ! )

But thanks, to be cut-up 'jack the ripper' style
by you is always a pleasure.

catsank · Sep 7, 2003, 05:15 PM

Zimp-le-but-brilliant

{img]http://webpages.charter.net/zimphire/forums/pancakebunny.jpg[/img]

'You are the King at this kinda thing !'

- Love it, just love it !

Zimphire · Sep 7, 2003, 05:20 PM

BTW, your sig is too large. Better change it before the sig nazis turn you in.

catsank · Sep 7, 2003, 05:54 PM

Zimp-le-but-effective-showing up the-defective!

...and now your looking out for me ... there's something going on here !

Zimp-le-man says...

"Actually I made SimpleAqua from Aqua. SmoothStripes didn't exist at the time."

Will you post a pic for me...So I can behold ZimpleAqua?

Zimphire · Sep 7, 2003, 06:06 PM

SA looked just about like SmoothStripes. It was the first theme I did back in the pre OS X 10.0 Public Beta days

catsank · Sep 7, 2003, 06:28 PM

My spelling and grammar are so weak - I'm surprised
I can even stand up - but - try spotting the difference here...

Freedom from offense is liberating.
Be a Equal Opportunity Offender.

or

Freedom from offense is liberating.
Be an Equal Opportunity Offender.

Thanks for showing your theme
- a real treat -very nice work :)

Zimphire · Sep 7, 2003, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by catsank:
My spelling and grammar are so weak - I'm surprised
I can even stand up - but - try spotting the difference here...

Thanks Mr Peabody

Thanks for showing your theme
- a real treat -very nice work

I just deleted the stripes. My next attempt at theming was a tiny bit more creative, but consistency sucked because of apps using their own GUI resources.

While Aqua isn't my favorite look, I think consistency is more important. I just can't stand the stripes.

NetworkShadow · Sep 7, 2003, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by quandarry:
my bbxmercury fix....

i call it freddiemercury!

copyright by me cuz nobody else has put stolen parts from aqua and bbxmercury together like this on my mac.

do not fold, spindle or staple or remove label under penalty of law!

That's horrid... It's like defacing art.

quandarry · Sep 7, 2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
That's horrid... It's like defacing art.

you're right...i should have left it all aqua!

swiz · Sep 7, 2003, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
That's horrid... It's like defacing art.

Notice how the scrollbar track fill has nasty pixels repeating in it.

bbxstudio · Sep 7, 2003, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by quandarry:
you're right...i should have left it all aqua!

Hehe.. funny guy

quandarry · Sep 7, 2003, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
Hehe.. funny guy

peace, man!

swiz · Sep 7, 2003, 11:30 PM

And notice how now the scrollbar track is fixed. You trying to make me look like a liar quandarry or thanking me for QA?

bbxstudio · Sep 8, 2003, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by swiz:
And notice how now the scrollbar track is fixed. You trying to make me look like a liar quandarry or thanking me for QA?

The steppy scrollbar was the least of the problems with that comp

Zimphire · Sep 8, 2003, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by bbxstudio:
The steppy scrollbar was the least of the problems with that comp

PTKAC

bOOzo · 04:27 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Just to be clear, this is not what your theme looked like back then, this is your updated version that's even more similar to SS.
I probably got me into an other stupid Zimphire fight right now, but I just could not resist replying. But that's what you are here for, right Zimp?

huggeebear · Sep 8, 2003, 04:53 AM

Never mind bbx mercury, when is bbx platinum going to be ported? that's like my all time favourite os9 theme. I'm surprised, really surprised that it still hasn't been ported yet

mrtew · Sep 8, 2003, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by bOOzo:
Just to be clear, this is not what your theme looked like back then, this is your updated version that's even more similar to SS.
I probably got me into an other stupid Zimphire fight right now, but I just could not resist replying. But that's what you are here for, right Zimp?

Noooooooooo, Max..... I always thought Zimp was the ding dong that wanted to fight over who's identical Aqua mod was the finest! All this time it's been YOU! Why? Zimphire I am so sorry for all the things I said about you. Thanks for not taking offense all those years. Now I will say it to you Max..... Grow up!!! :-]

bOOzo · Sep 8, 2003, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by mrtew:
Noooooooooo, Max..... I always thought Zimp was the ding dong that wanted to fight over who's identical Aqua mod was the finest! All this time it's been YOU! Why? Zimphire I am so sorry for all the things I said about you. Thanks for not taking offense all those years. Now I will say it to you Max..... Grow up!!! :-]

You are right, that was childish of me. I apologize.

FB Eye · Sep 8, 2003, 08:34 AM

When I think this forum cannot go any lower down the pathetic scale, somebody proves me wrong again

BBX, Max, Swiz, why do you guys still bother posting on this lame excuse for a GUI forum? Why you put up with all those cat fights and pointless arguments is beyond me...

Please guys, do your thing, makes themes YOU like personnaly, don't announce anything on this forum and regain that vuable time otherwise lost arguing with whiny teenagers and troublemakers, who think they know better than you although they never released a theme or tried to make one.

Max and Swiz, the lack of respect often shown towards your hard work is just sad, and it's killing slowly this GUI community...

bbxstudio · Sep 8, 2003, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by huggeebear:
Never mind bbx mercury, when is bbx platinum going to be ported? that's like my all time favourite os9 theme. I'm surprised, really surprised that it still hasn't been ported yet

Yeah, I love the scupted bevels especially in Platinum too - but it's too fat as is (especially the titlebars) to apply to OSX. I may revisit this one sometime in the future.

Zimphire · Sep 8, 2003, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by bOOzo:
Just to be clear, this is not what your theme looked like back then, this is your updated version that's even more similar to SS.
I probably got me into an other stupid Zimphire fight right now, but I just could not resist replying. But that's what you are here for, right Zimp?

Actually no, SA did look just like that at first. When you came out with SS I tried to change it to make it look different. Was never happy with the results, so I changed it back.

quandarry · Sep 8, 2003, 12:54 PM

i'm gonna be explaining how to remove the lines in aqua in the 'aqua hacks' thread...

is this aqua hack copyrighted by anyone?

would not want people who are interested in seeing how these types of things are
done and have evolved over the last couple of years feel like we are breaking the 11th commandment...

NetworkShadow · Sep 8, 2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by quandarry:
i'm gonna be explaining how to remove the lines in aqua in the 'aqua hacks' thread...

is this aqua hack copyrighted by anyone?

would not want people who are interested in seeing how these types of things are
done and have evolved over the last couple of years feel like we are breaking the 11th commandment...

Are you kidding?! The BBX M hack is � by BBX.

quandarry · 03:23 PM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Are you kidding?! The BBX M hack is � by BBX.

i think one of the biggest problems here is that people do not comprehend what they read...
shows the downhill slide of the educational system...

"i think what we have here, is a failure to communicate" _ strother martin [cool hand luke]

catsank · Sep 8, 2003, 03:36 PM

FB Eye (in a loud piercing cry mixed with tears...said)
When I think this forum cannot go any
lower down the pathetic scale, somebody proves me wrong again...

I on the other hand thought it was a good thread and had a bit
of everything in it - for-instance, now it has a green kung-fu girl...

"Don't mess with this little lady - she's likely to turn into a plant at any moment."

mrtew · Sep 8, 2003, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by FB Eye:
When I think this forum cannot go any lower down the pathetic scale, somebody proves me wrong again

Yeah, see it can always get worse!

TheIceMan · 07:17 PM

Sorry for derailing this thread even further, but call me an optimist, because I try to pay attention to the folks who have something of substance to offer (themes, ideas, suggestions, encouragements, etc), rather than the others who do not. Most of us are adults and just because someone says something we don't like, we do NOT have to try to get in the last word. That's childish and doing so results in forums like this one being about arguments. I have seen this time and time again of a members trying so desperately to get in "the last verbal jab".

Arguing involves more than 1 person. If we don't actively participate, the other person just ends up looking foolish. It's almost like arguing with children. They always want to say "Yeah you did," or "No, I didn't." It's funny.

Keeping this perspective will help you in life and here at MacNN. Overall, this is a nice place to visit.

swiz · Sep 8, 2003, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by quandarry:

"i think what we have here, is a failure to communicate" _ strother martin [cool hand luke]

I thought it was just from that Guns n Roses song "Civil War"... Yeah I used to listen to GnR... err I mean GnFnR