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xira · May 16, 2005, 03:08 PM

I'm a paying ShapeShifter customer, it worked really well in Panther. But now that I've upgraded to Tiger, when I move large windows around (such as iTunes and Safari) with a theme applied, they move slower. I've emailed them twice, and I've even spotted a bug. Hell, I've taken a video of the problem I have to be as extensive as possible and emailed it to them as well. They haven't replied to any of my emails. So I thought I'd ask here..

Before people start blaming it on the user:

I'm on an Erase and Install of Tiger:

I've used the latest version(s) of APE and SS
I've tried reinstalling them, wiping the plists, etc.

cgc · May 16, 2005, 03:19 PM

Let's start with what type of computer do you have, video card, memory, etc.

xira · May 17, 2005, 12:54 AM

Brand new Mac Mini 1.42 w/ 512MB RAM.

Zimphire · May 17, 2005, 04:04 AM

I wouldn't know why it would run SLOWER?

I guess it may depend on the theme? But wouldn't bigger PPATS draw faster?

Who knows. Got me.

Randman · May 17, 2005, 04:20 AM

What theme are you using? You logged out afterward and back in?

cgc · 01:19 PM

It definately shouldn't run slower. Mine seems to run as fast as before. Restart and see if it persists.

G0Ducks · May 17, 2005, 12:29 PM

Honestly, I (a paying user as well) have turned all of my Haxies off. With this bloated new Tiger, there aren't enough resources to go around... Need more RAM I guess.

More than enough machine...

R

cgc · May 17, 2005, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by G0Ducks

Honestly, I (a paying user as well) have turned all of my Haxies off. With this bloated new Tiger, there aren't enough resources to go around... Need more RAM I guess.

More than enough machine...

R

I don't feel as though Tiger is bloated. It runs at least as fast as 10.3.9 on my 400MHz G4 Sawtooth tower. I have 1GB of memory, so maybe that's the key.

Randman · May 17, 2005, 01:25 PM

Tiger's much faster than Panther.

G0Ducks · May 17, 2005, 01:39 PM

RAM is definitely the key. Before I got Tiger, I got a new G5. I had a G4 with LOTS of RAM, but unfortunately, the RAM from my old machine wont work in my new one. And to get more RAM for the G5, I have to buy two DIMS at a time, this makes it fairly expensive for me. So, until I get more $$$ I'll just have to use the default OS with my "measly" 256MB RAM.

As far as bloat... Well, it seems like every time a new OS comes out, you need twice as many resources to get it to act smoothly. "Sure, it's snappy kid, but who is going to fly the thing?"

G5 1.8
128 MB AGP Video Card (ATI 9600 XT)
256 MB RAM

You would think that this would be enough to run an OS. Well, it runs... I guess.

R

xira · May 17, 2005, 04:54 PM

I have 300MB of free memory out of 512, and it's just moving LARGE windows around when any shapeshifter theme is applied. like Safari and iTunes around is slow, it has nothing to do with the power of the machine. I have quite a few people on Neowin report the same thing.

xira · May 17, 2005, 05:54 PM

Sigh. Unsanity doesn't reply to ANY of my emails. Even an acknowledgment would be nice. I don't know, this changes in my mind how they do business. I paid for it, and they don't even reply to my emails. I've posted on multiple community forums, and nothing. I guess maybe I should uninstall SS and forget about themes. :/

digitaljames · 06:22 PM

I can't speak for the e-mails but 10,000 SS users without your problem leads me to beleive it not SS causing the problem....Unsanity is a very small company and SS is done by Jason Harris. Yep, just one guy. Perhaps your e-mails are mixed in with the 3,000 other emails that are asking about this, that and the other. Maybe you might have some luck PMing him in the forums.

Just for S and G, what are your system spec's? I know you on a clean install already....

xira · May 17, 2005, 10:37 PM

Mac Mini 1.42GHz
512MB RAM
80GB HD

Anything else I need to post? system profile? *shrugs*

--

aristotle reported it on nw as well..

digitaljames · May 17, 2005, 10:44 PM

Do you have cocktail? If so, there is setting in it to speed up the window redraw....

digitaljames · May 17, 2005, 10:45 PM

While we're at it, have you tried Max's package installers to see if theming without SS has the same effect?

xira · May 18, 2005, 02:04 AM

Yes. Max's packages work fine. And I have tried cocktail, with no avail. This moving large window issue only happens when I have an SS theme applied.

ShadowKatana · May 18, 2005, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by digitaljames

I can't speak for the e-mails but 10,000 SS users without your problem leads me to beleive it not SS causing the problem....Unsanity is a very small company and SS is done by Jason Harris. Yep, just one guy. Perhaps your e-mails are mixed in with the 3,000 other emails that are asking about this, that and the other. Maybe you might have some luck PMing him in the forums.

Just for S and G, what are your system spec's? I know you on a clean install already....

I have the very problem the OP described. Moving those windows is not smooth. So I deactivated SS. I hadn't posted this earlier hoping that it would be fixed in the next update (which I assume it is).

I have a PB800 DVI with 1 gig RAM and running Tiger.

Zimphire · May 18, 2005, 05:56 AM

Why should SS slow things down and not the installed theme?

Doesn't SS just manually replace the themes itself? Or does it just force apps to filter through it, while the OS still loads Aqua?

If it's the latter, then there is your slow down.

Maflynn · May 18, 2005, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Why should SS slow things down and not the installed theme?

Doesn't SS just manually replace the themes itself? Or does it just force apps to filter through it, while the OS still loads Aqua?

If it's the latter, then there is your slow down.

SS does not touch and/or replace the resources but instead as you call it "filter through it" via ape. Because of this dynamic filtering there is a bit of overhead which will slow things down. I'm not sure if the slow down is perceptible and I have not noticed anyhting, not to discount the OP's problem.

The beauty of this process is that extra.rscs is not effected and this keeps the stability and easess the application of a theme.

Zimphire · May 18, 2005, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

SS does not touch and/or replace the resources but instead as you call it "filter through it" via ape. Because of this dynamic filtering there is a bit of overhead which will slow things down. I'm not sure if the slow down is perceptible and I have not noticed anyhting, not to discount the OP's problem.

Ack, I did not know that.
Sorta like how Kaleidoscope slowed the system down I guess.

The beauty of this process is that extra.rscs is not effected and this keeps the stability and easess the application of a theme.

Stability? I really don't see how other ways would be unstable. And what do you mean by "not effected" ?

Installing a modified extras.rsrc doesn't really effect stability. It's just as stable as the default extras file.

What would effect stability would be if you installed a Extras.rsrc that didn't belong to that OS.

Meaning if you installed one from Panther, in Tiger.

Maflynn · May 18, 2005, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Ack, I did not know that.
Sorta like how Kaleidoscope slowed the system down I guess.

Stability? I really don't see how other ways would be unstable. And what do you mean by "not effected" ?
.

I thought it was possible to introduce instability either by an improperly coded extra.rscs or not replacing it incorrectly. I could be wrong though.

Mike

goMac · May 18, 2005, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

SS does not touch and/or replace the resources but instead as you call it "filter through it" via ape. Because of this dynamic filtering there is a bit of overhead which will slow things down. I'm not sure if the slow down is perceptible and I have not noticed anyhting, not to discount the OP's problem.

The beauty of this process is that extra.rscs is not effected and this keeps the stability and easess the application of a theme.

SS re-pipes any open requests for the Extras.rsrc to a different file via APE. This is only done once when an application starts up. It should provide no slow down after the app is launched.

Edit: Just realized it would obviously slightly slow down any file opens done afterwards, but it still wouldn't effect redraws.

Jason could be doing something past this, but I wouldn't know what it is.

xira · May 18, 2005, 03:50 PM

Since only a few users get it, I doubt it'll be addressed by Smerger.. I guess that means no more SS for me.. pity, Niqu just came out

Zimphire · May 18, 2005, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

I thought it was possible to introduce instability either by an improperly coded extra.rscs

Well that would still mess up SS too..

improperly coded meaning screwy resources. But then it would just display wrong.

OR if there is resources missing, not at all.

or not replacing it incorrectly. I could be wrong though.

How could you replace it incorrectly? You just move a file in a folder.
Or the installer does it.

nycdunz · May 18, 2005, 05:27 PM

i also notice the system getting unresponsive after applying themes, and I have a 1ghz powerbook 17" with 2gb ram... so its definetly not just me... i notice apps taking a longer time to launch and i get the beachball cursor a lot more often now...

xira · May 19, 2005, 07:06 PM

posted on neowin/macnn/macthemes - contacted unsanity, pm'd smeger, no luck.

lovely.

ShadowKatana · May 19, 2005, 07:09 PM

I'm sure he knows about it, and is hard at work developing a fix for it.

xira · May 19, 2005, 07:59 PM

That'd be nice, but he hasn't mentioned, or confirmed it. I haven't got any feedback or solutions and I've tried every way I know. I'm pretty bummed.

smeger · May 20, 2005, 08:34 PM

My apologies for not responding to this sooner, a personal emergency early in the week has kept me away from the computer until today.

You are seeing a slowdown when moving windows because of a compatibility change that I made for Tiger. Tiger hard-codes a one-pixel wide gray stroke around all opaque windows. If your theme changes the shape of the titlebar, the result is ugly. My "fix" for ShapeShifter 2.1 was to tell the window server to consider all windows to be non-opaque, which results in the correct stroke and shadow.

Unfortunately, this "fix" has caused a lot of subtle problems - your issue, the issue with selected items in the Spotlight results list, and the issue with "click through" of object handles in Adobe Illustrator.

So you can rest absolutely assured that I'll be fixing it, but unfortunately, it's a "deep" problem - it's not at all trivial to fix without breaking themes, and not at all trivial to fix in general.

Your specific issue, by the way, is happening because the window server is being forced to re-composite everything behind the window that you are moving. It has to do this because the window you are moving was marked by ShapeShifter as possibly being transparent. Hence, the CPU and the graphics card are doing more work when a theme is applied. QED.

ShadowKatana · May 20, 2005, 11:02 PM

Thanks for keeping us posted.

chatelp · May 21, 2005, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by smeger

Your specific issue, by the way, is happening because the window server is being forced to re-composite everything behind the window that you are moving. It has to do this because the window you are moving was marked by ShapeShifter as possibly being transparent. Hence, the CPU and the graphics card are doing more work when a theme is applied. QED.

Now, that explains everything! IMHO ShapeShifter is waaaaay to slow under Tiger. Look at the menus refresh speed or exposé... It also became very obvious after being forced to switch back to aqua when waiting for the tiger-compatibility upgrade of SS. When i re-installed SS i wondered if the overall slowness was due to the fact that i became accustomed to aqua or due to new version itself...
I hope you'll find a way to disable the 1-px border without enabling transparency on all windows. By the way, even if it's hard-coded there must be some method you will be able to patch using APE. I suppose the hard part is to find it :-)

xira · May 22, 2005, 07:42 PM

Thank you for the reply smeger.

ShadowKatana · Jul 6, 2005, 10:00 PM

smeger, the update seems to have fixed the problem with moving windows - everything seems to be working well, atm; will keep you posted if i notice recurrence of the abovementioned

Thanks for the update..