[Kate]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

I don't know what kind of announcement I'm expecting but that statement just seems SO lame to me. Why not make a monthly posting letting all their PAYING customers know how long they might have to wait for an update. Why not? Seriously.

Well, that was what the email told me. With regard to customer treatment and PR-policy that sort of statement lets me feel quite uneasy in way as well.

If you're actively developing a product with an uncertain release date I would let my customers know every once in a while just to keep them informed and avoiding interest to calm down too much. On the other hand I could understand that they must be pretty annoyed by all those requests coming in to give a fixed release date.

Maybe there are bugs that need to be fixed on Apples side they are waiting for (can you say 10.5.2?). Or that the new security features 10.5 is forcing into the system hinders or blocks efficient hijacking of calls to GUI elements. In order to reverse engineer some of the system calls you need to use trace functions that Apple recently seems to have blocked in part, which also hinders some bug fixing for other people as well it seems. In those cases even a lose date cannot be given.

But you could openly communicate this to the customer base. I guess this would be better than silence. However I also could be wrong about this. Time will tell.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

It's very polite and professional to write every month or two letting your customers know whether you're still alive and in business...

Exactly. I even check their blog just to see if there's some sign of progress, but the last post is from November '07. I have relied on several of their products and it just pisses me off that they don't post a simple "xxxx/xx/xx Update: we're working on it" kind of message. I used another product (forget what it was right now) in the past and the only way I found out the company was out of business was via 'someone else's' blog I found after a google search.

[JellyBeen]

Yes, very unprofessional. As much as I like their products, they perhaps should take a week-end class in proper business
etiquette.

[Ishan Bhattacharya]

If you read the blog-or comments on various forums by Unsanity "employees," proper etiquette (business or otherwise) is not high on the list of Unsanity's priorities.

[Jasoco]

Originally Posted by Spiddlydot 

Here Here!

I think you mean "Hear hear!"

The Straight Dope Mailbag: Why do people say, "Hear, hear"?<BR>

[Spiddlydot]

I think you mean "Hear hear!"

Oops yes I do, thanks.

[sayonaraML]

The funniest thing about their whole customer approach is to read their "what we're all about". My favorite part is "if a user expects a feature to be present, it will be.

To achieve these goals we will develop extensive business contacts, build a reputation of a moral company, and create respectable, innovative joint ventures to satisfy customer needs."

A moral company? In what way? Just sticking with the definition of moral that deals with right and wrong, how exactly are they doing that?

[mac1984]

It is a bit sad how Unsanity has simply cut people off. I do not know whether I will be returning when, and more so "if," they can make their haxies Leopard viable. The more I continue without them—the less I miss them. They censor their blog now in bad way, even for those who were loyal.

[roosta]

i wonder if the threat of a class action suit or some other legal action from their customers might elicit a response?

[mrtew]

Wow!

[mac1984]

Originally Posted by roosta 

i wonder if the threat of a class action suit or some other legal action from their customers might elicit a response?

Personally not interested in lawsuits as they really are not warranted in this case. Besides, Unsanity is a LLC and the liability is the amount you paid for the haxies, at the time you bought them. I have received more than the cost of the haxies in value, but now I am simply moving on for another reason: I do not want to get stuck in a similar situation like this Leopard transition where Unsanity cannot meet deadline releases in conjunction with system releases...too much hassle. Many other developers more than met the challenge ahead of Leopard's release (e.g., Agile Web Solutions, maker of 1Password).

[roosta]

it was just a thought. though unsanity does seem to be at fault here with their silence. a simple 'we're working on it' would be fine for most.

anyhow, if i could change all the ugly aqua elements (all that 'glass' look stuff) i'd be happy, though i'd love to have v23 or frankentheme back on my system.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mac1984 

Personally not interested in lawsuits as they really are not warranted in this case. Besides, Unsanity is a LLC and the liability is the amount you paid for the haxies, at the time you bought them. I have received more than the cost of the haxies in value, but now I am simply moving on for another reason: I do not want to get stuck in a similar situation like this Leopard transition where Unsanity cannot meet deadline releases in conjunction with system releases...too much hassle. Many other developers more than met the challenge ahead of Leopard's release (e.g., Agile Web Solutions, maker of 1Password).

That's not really fair. It's like saying, "In-N-Out employees can manage to make me a burger in less than a minute — why are researchers taking so long to make a cure for the common cold?" (Not to imply that 1Password is as simple as a hamburger.)

I mean, you're totally within your rights using whatever software you want and I understand why you'd be fed up with the unexpected wait. I just don't think APE is all that comparable to most other applications.

[mac1984]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That's not really fair. It's like saying, "In-N-Out employees can manage to make me a burger in less than a minute — why are researchers taking so long to make a cure for the common cold?" (Not to imply that 1Password is as simple as a hamburger.)

I mean, you're totally within your rights using whatever software you want and I understand why you'd be fed up with the unexpected wait. I just don't think APE is all that comparable to most other applications.

I'm sorry, but it is clearly understood by patrons that In-N-Out's burgers take longer than a minute to prepare (I believe you know this too.) The analogy to the common cold...well...it isn't even worth going down that path as they are not remotely associated in the scheme of development. But if you insist, then we're definitely screwed!

In the past, I was a steadfast supporter of Unsanity, but they have cut us off now. I have no doubt that in the future Unsanity will simply do the same when convenient. Just for the record it is not the wait that has caused me to move on—it is the total lack of communication to the masses. After all, this is the internet age, and the dissemination of information is much easier than it was even a decade ago. And why jump my ass, as I am averse to any lawsuit?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mac1984 

I'm sorry, but it is clearly understood by patrons that In-N-Out's burgers take longer than a minute to prepare (I believe you know this too.) The analogy to the common cold...well...it isn't even worth going down that path as they are not remotely associated in the scheme of development.

The point is that just because a SIMBL-based application with a limited range of host apps was released at a certain time doesn't mean a much more difficult and far-reaching framework and set of apps can be finished in the same timeframe. And we've seen the kind of problems APE can cause even when it's been through rigorous QA, so I would really not want Unsanity to rush something out the door.

Originally Posted by mac1984 

In the past, I was a steadfast supporter of Unsanity, but they have cut us off now. I have no doubt that in the future Unsanity will simply do the same when convenient. Just for the record it is not the wait that has caused me to move on—it is the total lack of communication to the masses. After all, this is the internet age, and the dissemination of information is much easier than it was even a decade ago. And why jump my ass, as I am averse to any lawsuit?

Like I said, if you're personally offended by Unsanity's lack of communication, you can respond however you like. I understand how you feel, and it doesn't hurt me personally if you never buy their stuff again or even if you sue them (though I don't think there are legitimate grounds). I still respect what they do on a technical level, and I hate to see a cool hack like APE impugned just because the company doesn't blog enough.

Didn't mean to "jump your ass," by the way.

[fisherKing]

what i heard from unsanity this morning (in response to an email)...
this morning being 5 february...

"We are hard at work getting Application Enhancer (APE) and our haxies compatible with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard. We've been so delayed because APE didn't even run until we received the shipping version of Leopard. Unsanity has 9 shareware products and about 4 free products that *must* work in Leopard, and APE requires some of these other products be updated first. We will release APE when we feel it is ready and not a moment before, but we will not be posting further status updates until then."

[mac1984]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

"...or even if you sue them (though I don't think there are legitimate grounds)."

Chuckit, for being a Moderator, it would be awfully damn nice if you actually read who posted about suing Unsanity, it was Roosta, not me. Crap sakes, get it right man!

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

what i heard from unsanity.... "We will release APE when we feel it is ready and not a moment before, but we will not be posting further status updates until then."

That's just such an odd turn-of-phrase that they keep using. I almost feel like it's insulting to their customers, but not really... just weird. It's like they're huffy because we're asking too much by wanting software updates, and even too much by wanting news on them. And why would they respond to emails but not to postings on their own blogs or on forums like this? Glad to hear they're still alive though.

[roosta]

Originally Posted by mac1984 

Chuckit, for being a Moderator, it would be awfully damn nice if you actually read who posted about suing Unsanity, it was Roosta, not me. Crap sakes, get it right man!

yeah, pick on me if you have to.

the whole suing thing was just an idea expressed to see -by readers' reactions- just how upset they are about this unsanity business. it makes sense that if you want people to keep buying your product you ought to let them know how things are going, otherwise even if you do eventually update your products and they perform better than ever, you run the risk of people not buying them and possibly, in the case with software, pirating them.

the ball is in unsanity's court.....

[Chuckit]

For the record, I never said mac1984 wanted to sue Unsanity, nor was I "picking on" anyone. My first post was disagreeing with mac1984 on technological grounds — it said nothing about any lawsuit. In his response, mac1984 asked me, "Why jump my ass, as I am averse to any lawsuit?" My reply to this question — and the only thing time I mentioned suing Unsanity — was that I don't care if he wants to sue Unsanity, because I was talking about technology, not lawsuits. I was just disagreeing with his comparison of 1Password and Unsanity's apps, not attacking him.

So, once more: I do not care who, if anybody, wants to sue Unsanity. I am not going to pick on anyone even if they do want to sue Unsanity. I am not affiliated with Unsanity and it doesn't make any difference to me. I hope it was clear enough this time and we can keep this thread on track.

[mrtew]

So why do you hate Unsanity and the people that sue them then?