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AB^2=BCxAC · Jun 5, 2003, 07:52 AM

Did he really just say that? Whoa.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D7RFJ5B00.html

"It's progress," Bush said. "These first signs of peace happen when people make up their minds to work toward peace, and that's what you saw."

Still, he added, "I am the master of low expectations."

moki · Jun 5, 2003, 07:55 AM

Well, the full quote is:

Still, he added, "I am the master of low expectations. We accomplished what I hoped we'd accomplish. We met expectations."

...but yeah, he said it. Heh. A good public speaker he is not.

Lerkfish · 10:33 AM

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moki · Jun 5, 2003, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
actuallly, to be more correct, he should say "I'm the beneficiary of low expectations".

::shrug:: depends on your viewpoint. I didn't vote for Bush, but I'm sure glad he's in office for these times rather than Gore.

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
actuallly, to be more correct, he should say "I'm the beneficiary of low expectations".

It's not his fault that all of the Bush-haters had made fun of him as some sort of idiot...

It IS his fault, however, that he's outsmarted most of them his whole Presidency.

chris v · Jun 5, 2003, 09:13 AM

Just goes to show: Set your expectations low enough, and you can accompliish anything you set out to do.

Uh... WTF?

CV

Lerkfish · 10:34 AM

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vmarks · Jun 5, 2003, 09:26 AM

Did anyone have high expectations for the Middle East Peace Process?

Going into what has been a quagmire for years with high expectations would be foolish. Being the master of low expectations and then being pleased with a better outcome is a far better position. You don't face disappointment, and you don't face shame from the media for not achieving more.

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
really? how exactly has Bush outsmarted me?

He's President. You aren't.

I was speaking specifically of things like:

Taking issues like education and difusing them by letting Ted Kennedy write the education bill.

Instead of losing seats in an off year election, winning them, therefore taking back the majority in the Senate.

Knowing that Sammy Sosa was a cheater in the early 1990s and therefore trading him to the White Sox (where cheaters have felt at home since 1919.)

Lerkfish · 10:34 AM

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davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
wow...I feel so.....outsmarted

We know, you are the smartest and wisest man in the world. Anyone who disagrees with you must be a dolt.

(See, I can find that too)

Lerkfish · 10:35 AM

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boots · Jun 5, 2003, 10:12 AM

Bush has an incredible personal presence. When he needs something (like the mid-term elections) to go his way, he makes personal appreances. The only thing intellect has to do with that is that he recognized the effect his "charm" (for lack of a more precise term) has on people and used it to good effect.

His other strength is in delegation of power.

Combined, those two things have worked well for him.

I sat on the fence (though laughed heartily at some of the faux-pas) about him being an idiot or brilliant. I am even on record here saying that he was either the biggest dolt we've ever elected and Cheney is pulling the strings - or - he is subtly brilliant.

I don't think he's an idiot. And I think he has a pretty good sense of humor (part of his charm) that he uses to good advantage. That's all the statement in question was. A self deprecating quip that was barbed for his critics. Not a confession that he's a poster-child for under-acheivers.

This is not to say I agree with his policies, but I give him credit for the way he works. If nothing else, it seems to be effective.

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 10:13 AM

Well said boots.

Lerkfish · 10:35 AM

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vmarks · Jun 5, 2003, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
Taking issues like education and difusing them by letting Ted Kennedy write the education bill.

defusing or diffusing?

I believe you meant the former, which puts out a volatile situation. The latter puts the subject out of focus, or spreads it out from a central location.

boots · Jun 5, 2003, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
(stuff I pretty much agree with)...then:

Even in your post here, boots, you say you were on the fence about his intellect, but again, this is setting the bar lower later when you become impressed.

No, I don't think I changed the bar later. I simply reserved judgement until we had more facts. I think he has a keener intellect that average...he just hides it well. It's all part of that nebulous thing we call charm. I reserved judgement until we could actually make that assessment, I didn't lower the bar so that he would meet it. There is a big difference.

Lerkfish · Jun 5, 2003, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by boots:
No, I don't think I changed the bar later. I simply reserved judgement until we had more facts. I think he has a keener intellect that average...he just hides it well. It's all part of that nebulous thing we call charm. I reserved judgement until we could actually make that assessment, I didn't lower the bar so that he would meet it. There is a big difference.

point taken.

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by vmarks:
defusing or diffusing?

I believe you meant the former, which puts out a volatile situation. The latter puts the subject out of focus, or spreads it out from a central location.

Confusing. Just kidding.

I meant defusing. Butt speling ain't nevr ben mah bes subjek.

BRussell · Jun 5, 2003, 11:54 AM

Bush is a soft bigot.

BRussell · Jun 5, 2003, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by vmarks:
defusing or diffusing?

I believe you meant the former, which puts out a volatile situation. The latter puts the subject out of focus, or spreads it out from a central location.

Great, the spelling police.

vmarks · Jun 5, 2003, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by BRussell:
Great, the spelling police.

(sarcasm) Thank you for contributing. I'll be sure to never ask for clarification with you around again. (/sarcasm)

Jacket · Jun 5, 2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by BRussell:
Bush is a soft bigot.

based on what?

chris v · Jun 5, 2003, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Jacket:
based on what?

Maybe this?

WASHINGTON - It was Condoleezza Rice, national security advisor, who helped her boss out of the embarassing situation. During a conversation between the two presidents, George W. Bush, 55, (USA) and Fernando Henrique Cardoso, 71, (Brazil), Bush bewildered his colleague with the question "Do you have blacks, too?"
_
Rice, 47, noticing how astonished the Brazilian was, saved the day by telling Bush "Mr. President, Brazil probably has more blacks than the USA. Some say it's the country with the most blacks outside Africa."

CV

Hugi · Jun 5, 2003, 01:41 PM

I have no idea what you are talking about. Bush is brilliant.

thunderous_funker · Jun 5, 2003, 01:45 PM

I thought you were just talking about "the soft bigotry of lowered expectations"...

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by chris v:
Maybe this?

And this is proof of his BIGOTRY? Give me a break. Proof that he didn't know much about the racial breakdown of Brazil, perhaps, but not bigotry.

If he was truly a bigot - Condi Rice wouldn't have been in the room.

chris v · Jun 5, 2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
And this is proof of his BIGOTRY? Give me a break. Proof that he didn't know much about the racial breakdown of Brazil, perhaps, but not bigotry.

If he was truly a bigot - Condi Rice wouldn't have been in the room.

Thunker cleared up the subject just above you.

I think his igorance of Brazil is a good example of the point of "soft bigotry of low expectations," though. If conservatives don't expect more than that from their chosen leader of the free world, well...

But I digress, I realize, so don't call me on that, okay? I'l leave your boys to your romp, now. Nothing to see here, keep moving.

CV out.

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by chris v:
If conservatives don't expect more than that from their chosen leader of the free world, well...

So, are you pretending that any world leader could tell you the racial breakdown, weather patterns, population growth patterns, economic specialties and so forth of every nation in the world at any specific time?

boots · Jun 5, 2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
So, are you pretending that any world leader could tell you the racial breakdown, weather patterns, population growth patterns, economic specialties and so forth of every nation in the world at any specific time?

No, but I would like him/her to know that there COULD be blacks in other parts of the world. He wasn't saying, "Gosh, I didn't realize that 45.6% of your population was of African decent. I would have thought it was closer to 30%." He was frickin' surprised there were any!

But that's water under the bridge. Ignorance can be fixed...and it seems to have been in Pres. Bush's case. It's stupidity that bothers me the most. I haven't honestly seen much of that in Pres. Bush... at least not any more than in other leaders. I just disagree with him on a lot of issues. That's a matter of idiology, not stupidity.

chris v · Jun 5, 2003, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
So, are you pretending that any world leader could tell you the racial breakdown, weather patterns, population growth patterns, economic specialties and so forth of every nation in the world at any specific time?

No. I would think the president of the United States might know that there were black people in Brazil. That's all. I learned that in the stinking 7th grade. Extrapolating anything else out of my statement is a pointless exercise on your part.

Why you want to offer excuse after excuse for Bush's limited knowledge of the world outside our borders baffles me. Having some clue about the world is, after all, part of the job, no?

CV

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by chris v:
Why you want to offer excuse after excuse for Bush's limited knowledge of the world outside our borders baffles me. Having some clue about the world is, after all, part of the job, no?

I didn't offer any excuses. I simply said that I don't think that was a sign of bigotry.

And he obviously has "some clue" about the world. Just today they reported that as he was flying over Iraq, he was pointing out landmarks to those on the plane. (Obviously, he's studied Iraq quite a bit, but still, to not just know them, but to recognize them in flight.)

The question might be asked why you are so intent on proving that he is not bright?

Lerkfish · 10:36 AM

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chris v · Jun 5, 2003, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:

The question might be asked why you are so intent on proving that he is not bright?

I just simply don't like him, okay?

CV

P.S. what Lerk said.

Hugi · Jun 5, 2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
But the reality is, we SHOULD expect our world leaders to have a comfortable knowledge of the countries they visit

It is no secret that the US is the most influential world power today. Consequently, I expect more of the US president than I do of other world leaders. I just think that a person often referred to as "leader of the free world" should know a bit about world affairs, and I have no reason to believe that Bush does.

In fact, I would love to ask him if he would like to go penguin shooting in Iceland.

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
THANK YOU! this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You're lowering the bar of your expectations. Essentially, its ok with you for him to know very little, since you don't expect him to know anything.

I expect him to know LOTS of things. When did I say I didn't expect him to know anything? I just said I didn't expect him to know EVERYTHING.

I'm not lowering my expectations - I just have realistic expectations to start with.

Seriously, the example was used to show that the President is somehow a bigot. I simply said that it was a lack of specific knowledge, not bigotry.

I am sure I could dig up similar examples for every other of the 42 previous Presidents. That doesn't mean they were idiots or bigots. It just means they are human and made mistakes.

If he were a real idiot, he would have asked if Brazil is where bras come from.

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by chris v:
I just simply don't like him, okay?

Really? Couldn't tell.

chris v · Jun 5, 2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
Really? Couldn't tell.

Like the new sig, Dave is Mondo Dot Com. Has kind of a "commie" look to it.

CV

moki · Jun 5, 2003, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by boots:
I sat on the fence (though laughed heartily at some of the faux-pas) about him being an idiot or brilliant. I am even on record here saying that he was either the biggest dolt we've ever elected and Cheney is pulling the strings - or - he is subtly brilliant.

I'd say neither. I think he's a principled man, and I think he's an intelligent person, but a poor public speaker by in large (he has had exceptions).

He is what a President should be (note: that doesn't mean you have to agree with his policies) -- a good figurehead. What matters most is the team assembled around the President; it's always been this way, and always will be.

moki · Jun 5, 2003, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by BRussell:
Bush is a soft bigot.

Right. Take a look at his quite diverse cabinet. Progressive policies regarding Africa and the AIDS problem, a history of progressive policies regarding Mexicans in Texas, and so on.

Unless you have something to back up your claim, I don't see why it deserves merrit or consideration.

moki · Jun 5, 2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by boots:
No, but I would like him/her to know that there COULD be blacks in other parts of the world. He wasn't saying, "Gosh, I didn't realize that 45.6% of your population was of African decent. I would have thought it was closer to 30%." He was frickin' surprised there were any!

Well, I'll fess up: I didn't know this either. I've even been to Brazil (but admittedly a very remote area).

moki · Jun 5, 2003, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by hugi:
In fact, I would love to ask him if he would like to go penguin shooting in Iceland.

Alright, now what's the deal here? Why do we have a seemingly disproportionate number of people from Iceland on these web boards?

Logic · Jun 5, 2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by moki:
Alright, now what's the deal here? Why do we have a seemingly disproportionate number of people from Iceland on these web boards?

I've been wondering the same thing

BRussell · Jun 5, 2003, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by moki:
Right. Take a look at his quite diverse cabinet. Progressive policies regarding Africa and the AIDS problem, a history of progressive policies regarding Mexicans in Texas, and so on.

Unless you have something to back up your claim, I don't see why it deserves merrit or consideration.

I knew some people would get this reference, and some people wouldn't. Now I'm just stopping in periodically to chuckle.

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by chris v:
Like the new sig, Dave is Mondo Dot Com. Has kind of a "commie" look to it.

CV

Thanks - definitely was influenced by the style of art from the USSR back in the revolutionary days. (That and KMFDM album covers!)

It's from a tradeshow poster we did back in the glory days of the fiber optic industry... here's the whole thing (miniturized):

He was pretty popular with the people at ILX - they even dressed at tradeshows in blue denim shirts with their sleaves rolled up. We nicknamed him "Hammerin' Hank." (I had lobbied for ILX Ivan, but what do I know?)

moki · Jun 5, 2003, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by BRussell:
I knew some people would get this reference, and some people wouldn't. Now I'm just stopping in periodically to chuckle.

Yep... you're right, I didn't get it. Does that mean I get to be enlightened?

davesimondotcom · Jun 5, 2003, 04:56 PM

I guess we should all be happy that Bush didn't call Saddam "Grayskull" and declare that he was the Master of the Universe!

MacGorilla · Jun 5, 2003, 04:56 PM

Lerkfish · 10:37 AM

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BRussell · Jun 5, 2003, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by moki:
Yep... you're right, I didn't get it. Does that mean I get to be enlightened?

thunderous posted it before - Bush, back when he was a compassionate conservative, repeatedly talked about the "soft bigotry of low expectations" during the campaign. I've never heard anyone but him use that term "soft bigotry."