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Logic · Sep 23, 2003, 05:48 AM

US challenges Israel over fence

Just words or will they do something about it this time?

Discuss�

eklipse · Sep 23, 2003, 06:10 AM

The former.

Millennium · Sep 23, 2003, 07:26 AM

I think Bush might just surprise us on this one, actually. Though it wouldn't be much of a surprise. He may not be very good about keeping his promises, but he does seem to have a decent track record of backing up his threats.

lil'babykitten · Sep 23, 2003, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by Millennium:
I think Bush might just surprise us on this one, actually. Though it wouldn't be much of a surprise. He may not be very good about keeping his promises, but he does seem to have a decent track record of backing up his threats.

I agree.

But I bet this one has the neo-cons shaking, they are probably utilizing all their means of persuading Bush to backdown on this one.
I hope they fail. Miserably.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 23, 2003, 07:59 AM

What is Iceland prepared to do about it?

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
US challenges Israel over fence

Just words or will they do something about it this time?

Discuss�

Look, I don't give a damn what America is giving to Israel in foreign aid.

America has no moral right to impose this upon Israel.

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 08:09 AM

Condoleezza Rice hip-hopped and rapped:

""We understand that they (the Israelis) have some security concerns. But it is extremely important, if it (the barrier) is going to be built, that it... not intrude on the lives of the Palestinians"

Let Israel defend itself against terrorist intrusion, and, Dr. Rice, step aside!

macvillage.net · Sep 23, 2003, 09:56 AM

America won't do anything.

Any politician who agrees to cut foreign Aid to Israel will be deemed a "Nazi", and "anti-semite".

It will be the end of their career.

Politicians want one thing... better jobs.

This wouldn't help them with their goal.

So I'm 100% confident, that Sharon is right... this is a bluff.

It would never happen, because nobody would pull the plug.

Even if they did... it would have to be a giant debate, and would create a ton of trouble. The US helped Israel build a pretty decent arsonal to fight the USSR should the need have come up during the cold war. Now those weapons are pointed at Iran, Syria, and other Arab countries. Bush likes having access to the button. Bush doesn't want to lose that.

So I'm 100% confident, like most others in the world, that this is nothing more than a bluff.

I will go as far as to say that Bush will most likely appologise to the Israeli government for this at some point in the future.

Face Ache · Sep 23, 2003, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by AutoJC:

quote:
Condoleezza Rice hip-hopped and rapped:

""We understand that they (the Israelis) have some security concerns. But it is extremely important, if it (the barrier) is going to be built, that it... not intrude on the lives of the Palestinians"

Let Israel defend itself against terrorist intrusion, and, Dr. Rice, step aside!

Condoleezza Rice hip-hopped and rapped did she?

Originally posted by AutoJC:
Look, I don't give a damn what America is giving to Israel in foreign aid.

America has no moral right to impose this upon Israel.

I had you pegged as a right wing American but you're obviously a right wing Israeli. Now I see where you're coming from.

version · Sep 23, 2003, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
Look, I don't give a damn what America is giving to Israel in foreign aid.

America has no moral right to impose this upon Israel.

Dear, oh dear, we do seem to have a right little Ariel Sharon in our forum now. Look at what yo usaid above, now compare this to what you said directyl afterwards"

Autojc said: 'Let Israel defend itself against terrorist intrusion, and, Dr. Rice, step aside!'

So you don't mind that your nation funds, and invests in Israel, and that Israel can use the money to buy military hardware and ust it against the Palestinians; and yet you're also saying that Israel hould defend itself? Hypocrite, how about the US stop funding Israel, and then let it defend itself.

AutoJC= right-wing agenda maniac.

Joshua · Sep 23, 2003, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
Condoleezza Rice hip-hopped and rapped:

What the hell does that mean?

BlackGriffen · Sep 23, 2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Joshua:
What the hell does that mean?

It means he's a racist dip$hit.

The U.S. is under no moral obligation to fund Israel, either.

So, I see cutting off of loan guarantees and/or foreign aid as a perfectly reasonable solution if the Israeli government refuses to be reasonable.

Go ahead and build a fence, but build it on Israel's own property, not the Palestinians'.

BlackGriffen

Wiskedjak · Sep 23, 2003, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
Look, I don't give a damn what America is giving to Israel in foreign aid.

America has no moral right to impose this upon Israel.

You're right, they don't. However, neither do they have a moral obligation to given more foreign aid to Israel than any other single country. Perhaps Israel should consider that before spitting in the face of their gift horse.

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Face Ache:
[I had you pegged as a right wing American but you're obviously a right wing Israeli. Now I see where you're coming from.

[/B]

Wrong.

I'm an American who morally supports Israel.

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Joshua:
What the hell does that mean?

It's a joke, stooge. It's meant to trivialize and satirize the actual meaninglessness of her vacuous commentary regarding Israel.

Too bad you didn't get it.

shmerek · Sep 23, 2003, 12:57 PM

you suck.

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
So, I see cutting off of loan guarantees and/or foreign aid as a perfectly reasonable solution if the Israeli government refuses to be reasonable.

Go ahead and build a fence, but build it on Israel's own property, not the Palestinians'.

BlackGriffen

Israel got tremendous support for its nation by selling its bonds. It bought the most advanced weaponry and built up an infrastructure not to be found anywhere else in the Middle East. Whose to say they won't do this again?

The U. S. should realize that they are under NO moral obligation to fund ANYONE. They don't.

lil'babykitten · Sep 23, 2003, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by shmerek:
you suck.

I second that.

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by shmerek:
you suck.

Fast track to the Ignore List.

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by version:
Dear, oh dear, we do seem to have a right little Ariel Sharon in our forum now. Look at what yo usaid above, now compare this to what you said directyl afterwards"

Autojc said: 'Let Israel defend itself against terrorist intrusion, and, Dr. Rice, step aside!'

So you don't mind that your nation funds, and invests in Israel, and that Israel can use the money to buy military hardware and ust it against the Palestinians; and yet you're also saying that Israel hould defend itself? Hypocrite, how about the US stop funding Israel, and then let it defend itself.

AutoJC= right-wing agenda maniac.

Version- Speed lane to my Ignore List.

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 01:08 PM

I guess its impossible for some of you to conduct an intelligent discussion regarding America's role in Israel.

So you resort to calling me "anti-semitic" and "racist" and that "I suck."

What very well-thought-out responses.

And you accuse me of trolling?

Beware. I can dish it back out to you, even if it means I get banned by those who don't understand the difference between an intelligently expressed opinion and outright abusive responses.

If you are looking for abusive responses I can dish it out as well as anyone.

thunderous_funker · Sep 23, 2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
Version- Speed lane to my Ignore List.

A virtual "security fence" to pretect you from the verbal terrorists?

If the Wall was being built on the Green Line, it probably wouldn't be an issue.

If the Wall wasn't separating Arabs from their water and farms in a blatant land grab, it probably wouldn't be a problem.

If the Wall wasn't presuming to make claims on lands that are still disputed in the "peace process", it probably wouldn't be a problem.

That is the issue. Israel's right to security does not empower them to subvert the "peace process" they are supposed to be paying more than lip service to.

Nicko · Sep 23, 2003, 01:09 PM

Fences throughout the ages:

Wall of Hadrian .... failed

Great wall of China.... failed

Berlin wall.... failed

I see a pattern.

Canada: longest undefended border in the world

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
A virtual "security fence" to pretect you from the verbal terrorists?

If the Wall was being built on the Green Line, it probably wouldn't be an issue.

Except that half of Boston would have to find an alternate way to get to work

If the Wall wasn't separating Arabs from their water and farms in a blatant land grab, it probably wouldn't be a problem.

If the Wall wasn't presuming to make claims on lands that are still disputed in the "peace process", it probably wouldn't be a problem.

That is the issue. Israel's right to security does not empower them to subvert the "peace process" they are supposed to be paying more than lip service to.

What? The one that may result in their demise?

The Road Map to Hell?

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Nicko:
Fences throughout the ages:

Wall of Hadrian .... failed

Great wall of China.... failed

Berlin wall.... failed

I see a pattern.

Canada: longest undefended border in the world

I've no doubt this wall will fail, too. Walls are a rather ancient way of keeping the enemy out.

However, Israel has no choice now but to defend its borders.

Zimphire · Sep 23, 2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
It means he's a racist dip$hit.

No it means a lot of people in here have no sense of humor.

Zimphire · Sep 23, 2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
I guess its impossible for some of you to conduct an intelligent discussion regarding America's role in Israel.

So you resort to calling me "anti-semitic" and "racist" and that "I suck."

What very well-thought-out responses.

And you accuse me of trolling?

They have always had double standards here.

They are the quickest to troll, and quickest to point the trolling finger. It's actually quite funny.

voodoo · Sep 23, 2003, 02:07 PM

I think Israel should be a lot nicer to us.

voodoo · 03:45 PM

We are nice to them. I mean, here's a pizza.

voodoo · 03:46 PM

I think pepperoni on a pizza is very important.

voodoo · 03:47 PM

I don't like trolls on my pizza. They're salty

voodoo · 03:47 PM

How does Bush like his pizza?

voodoo · 03:48 PM

He probably doesn't like them with pretzels, ever since he almost choked to death on on.

voodoo · 03:49 PM

Nothing will come out of these posts because the US Prez forgot the number for the pizza joint.

voodoo · Sep 23, 2003, 02:17 PM

voodoo · 03:50 PM

Now I've posted as much as some people. Spam? no of course not. I was just debating my pizza choices. Geez, there sure are lots of options. Maybe I'll get Chinese food instead.

Zimphire · Sep 23, 2003, 02:24 PM

^
^
^

thunderous_funker · Sep 23, 2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
However, Israel has no choice now but to defend its borders.

You keep missing the point. Israel isn't building the wall on it's borders. It's building the wall on land that it is supposed to be giving back to Arabs. Land that doesn't belong to it by Israel's own admission.

Israel is expanding its borders with the "fence" at the same time it pretends to negotiate for a return of Arab territory. It is complete and total duplicity and even Dubya is smart enough to recognize it.

Zimphire · Sep 23, 2003, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
You keep missing the point. Israel isn't building the wall on it's borders. It's building the wall on land that it is supposed to be giving back to Arabs. Land that doesn't belong to it by Israel's own admission.

Israel is expanding its borders with the "fence" at the same time it pretends to negotiate for a return of Arab territory. It is complete and total duplicity and even Dubya is smart enough to recognize it.

This is what is known as a buffer zone. Israel wouldn't NEED such a thing if the crazy terrorists bombers would stop.

I am sure if this was put a end to, the land would be gladly given back.

thunderous_funker · Sep 23, 2003, 02:53 PM

So Arabs are expected to peacefully negotiate with a partner that is openly violating every agreement they've made in the last 10 years and actively grabbing as much land as they can so they don't have to give it back.

Got it.

Even Dubya understands how Israel's actions are unjustified and counter-productive to establishing peace. Funny how even the most rabid Bushites will suddenly bail on their beloved leader when he shows in the slightest sign of criticizing Israel for it's gross violations.

Bush says the "fence" is counter to US goals at peace in the middle east and an obstacle to peace. I guess that makes Bush a Lefty like me and anti-security, anti-semitic or "soft on terror" like the French.

BlackGriffen · Sep 23, 2003, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
So you resort to calling me "anti-semitic" and "racist" and that "I suck."

You got called racist for the 'joke' about Condi Rice that pigeonholed her in to a stereotype.

BG

AutoJC · Sep 23, 2003, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
You got called racist for the 'joke' about Condi Rice that pigeonholed her in to a stereotype.

BG

You're right about me pigeonholing Condi Rice into a stereotype.

That stereotype, though, is a "Bush yes-person."

You dudes have no sense of humor.

Zimphire · Sep 23, 2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
So Arabs are expected to peacefully negotiate with a partner that is openly violating every agreement they've made in the last 10 years and actively grabbing as much land as they can so they don't have to give it back.

Got it.

Nice spin there.

If the Arabs would control their homocide bombers they wouldn't have had their land taken.

Zimphire · Sep 23, 2003, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
You got called racist for the 'joke' about Condi Rice that pigeonholed her in to a stereotype.

BG

He got called a racist because people just look for something to be offended by, then knee-jerk.

Making a joke about stereotypes is just a joke. No racism involved.