[Zimphire]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

[AutoJC]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

Gotta watch those arabic translators.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by AutoJC:
Gotta watch those arabic translators.

I am sure there are others doing this, They are just after the arabs.

Those racists!

[voodoo]

Cheese?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Cheese?

If you have to ask, go use some soap and water.

[BlackGriffen]

Can we at least pretend that there is a trial standing between the accused and the brand "traitor" ? Seeing as how someone is only a traitor if they're guilty.

The nature of the classified material is of interest as well. Some stuff is classified because people's lives depend on it. Some stuff is classified because people's careers are threatened by it. Some stuff is classified because some idiot thought that it might be a good idea to classify it.

For instance, the army may consider records of conversations with the inmates that detail how they were treated as classified because it would threaten the existence of the Gitmo facility.

All the article said was, "classified info was found on the translator's laptop." It never says what sort of classified information (messages to/from terrorists on the outside, a record of prisoner treatment, or a description of the commanding officer's underwear).

BlackGriffen

[slow moe]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
All the article said was, "classified info was found on the translator's laptop."

The article didn't reference a laptop, but it did say

Al-Halabi is charged with eight counts related to espionage, three counts of aiding the enemy, 11 counts of disobeying a lawful order, nine counts of making a false official statement and one count of bank fraud.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by slow moe:
The article didn't reference a laptop, but it did say

Sorry, you caught me skimming the front page of CNN, which said

The senior airman, who served as a translator, allegedly had classified information on his laptop computer, officials said.

The actual article, second paragraph, said:

Officials said Senior Airman Ahmad al Halabi was arrested July 23 because he allegedly had classified information about suspected al Qaeda detainees and facilities at the Guantanamo Bay base on his laptop computer.

Hmmm. Unless we're talking about blueprints and structural details that could aid in a jail break, it sounds to me like this man is not a traitor. It sounds like he was either: a) helping these people get in touch with their families to, you know, let them know that they're alive; b) getting the story of how these people are being treated out in the open.

There is a possibility that this person was a traitor, but I have reservations that are dependent upon what, more specifically, was on the laptop (e.g. whether it was helpful to a jailbreak, messages to the inmates' moms & dads, and information embarrassing to the operators of cam X-Ray), and what evidence they may have of what he tried to do with the information.

BlackGriffen

Edit: It sound to me like.... wait for it... Zimmy and AutoJC read the headline and their knees jerked so hard they knocked themselves senseless. Aren't I punny?

[voodoo]

"Edit: It sound to me like.... wait for it... Zimmy and AutoJC read the headline and their knees jerked so hard they knocked themselves senseless."

[daimoni]

.

[finboy]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
It sounds like he was either: a) helping these people get in touch with their families to, you know, let them know that they're alive; b) getting the story of how these people are being treated out in the open.

And both of those behaviors are forbidden and dangerous to the security of the US. How is he not a "suspected traitor" at this point if he's under investigation for doing those things?

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by finboy:
And both of those behaviors are forbidden and dangerous to the security of the US.

It's obvious they're forbidden, but how are they dangerous to the security of the United States? Please try not to sound completely paranoid.

How is he not a "suspected traitor" at this point if he's under investigation for doing those things?

That's precisely what he is. Problem is that the two people I mentioned didn't use the word suspected.

BG

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by voodoo:
"Edit: It sound to me like.... wait for it... Zimmy and AutoJC read the headline and their knees jerked so hard they knocked themselves senseless."

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Can we at least pretend that there is a trial standing between the accused and the brand "traitor" ? Seeing as how someone is only a traitor if they're guilty.

The nature of the classified material is of interest as well. Some stuff is classified because people's lives depend on it. Some stuff is classified because people's careers are threatened by it. Some stuff is classified because some idiot thought that it might be a good idea to classify it.

For instance, the army may consider records of conversations with the inmates that detail how they were treated as classified because it would threaten the existence of the Gitmo facility.

All the article said was, "classified info was found on the translator's laptop." It never says what sort of classified information (messages to/from terrorists on the outside, a record of prisoner treatment, or a description of the commanding officer's underwear).

BlackGriffen

They are required to say "Inocent until proven guilty"

But regarding US laws and policies, it's really "Guilty until proven inocent".

It's required in the inverse so that there is no issue of slander, or defermation of character.

But by law we inprison and assume guilt until they prove their inocence.

You don't go in to allow prosecuters to prove your guilt. You go in and "defend" hence "Defendent".

There's a distinction. We aren't the media, we aren't law enforcement.

He's guilty, until he proves otherwise. Just as the government treats it.

Just those involved can't state so until after trial.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Oh, did I make you cry, Zimmy? There, there. It's all right. Just remember that little sticks and stones rhyme next time those bullies point at you and laugh because you ride the short bus.


BlackGriffen

[BlackGriffen]

macvillage.net:The prison thing is because people who are about to face trial are a flight risk. It may look the same as guilty until innocent, but it is just a necessary precaution (unless they post bail - something that wouldn't exist if they were guilty until proven innocent).

You realize that guilty until proven innocent is logically almost impossible, and also one of the root causes of the Salem Witch trials?

People may not always practice it, unfortunately, but that doesn't mean that the alternative is acceptable.

BlackGriffen

Edit: clarity and space.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

They're all around you. Beware.

[Uday's Carcass]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
The nature of the classified material is of interest as well. Some stuff is classified because people's lives depend on it. Some stuff is classified because people's careers are threatened by it. Some stuff is classified because some idiot thought that it might be a good idea to classify it.

For instance, the army may consider records of conversations with the inmates that detail how they were treated as classified because it would threaten the existence of the Gitmo facility.

All the article said was, "classified info was found on the translator's laptop." It never says what sort of classified information (messages to/from terrorists on the outside, a record of prisoner treatment, or a description of the commanding officer's underwear).

You are right that lots of things are classified. however, most of it is that way for a good reason. It may give away methods and means of the information, or may contain things that may be harmful to the United States.

BUT, no one 'accidentally' gets classified information on their unclassified computer. If you've ever worked in that type of environment (and you obviously haven't), you'd know that regardless of the content, classified is classified, and any security breach is serious.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
You are right that lots of things are classified. however, most of it is that way for a good reason. It may give away methods and means of the information, or may contain things that may be harmful to the United States.

BUT, no one 'accidentally' gets classified information on their unclassified computer. If you've ever worked in that type of environment (and you obviously haven't), you'd know that regardless of the content, classified is classified, and any security breach is serious.

Ha! you missed the entire point of my post. Things are classified because someone given that authority in the government said so. So, my primary question was, "Why was this information classified?" Not, "How did it get on the laptop?" Obviously, because the guy put it there (conspiracy theories aside ).

And, no, "most of it is that way for a good reason," is not good enough. I don't need to know the information, but you'd better believe that I would want to know what the nature of the information was before I could judge accurately whether treason was actually committed. They could easily say something like, "Plans of the facilities," or, "communiques to terrorist cells," without breaching security one bit, and supporting the case for treason. If it were something like, "Letters to various prisoner's families," or, "Information about prisoner identities, and the living conditions at camp X-Ray," then those never should have been classified in the first place.

BlackGriffen

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Oh, did I make you cry, Zimmy?

Actually, the kid is laughing. As in "That was as knee slapper!"

[Uday's Carcass]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
If it were something like, "Letters to various prisoner's families," or, "Information about prisoner identities, and the living conditions at camp X-Ray," then those never should have been classified in the first place.

Letters to family members may contain information that is undesirable for release, and any information about prisoner identities could also hurt US efforts to collect additional intelligence or undermine efforts to interrogate and 'break' certain detainees. Operations are ongoing, so releasing the detainees or allowing the release of all but the most trivial information could run counter to current operations, possibly compromising sources and methods.

and as far as conditions are concerned--Red Cross et al. have in the past been allowed liberal access to inspect the conditions.

[gadster]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Actually, the kid is laughing. As in "That was as knee slapper!"

Actually, that kid looks like someone is tickling his 'nads. Did you crop that out?

[version]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I am sure there are others doing this, They are just after the arabs.

Those racists!

Yeah, the Israelis. Mosad has quiet a numbe of little spies in the US just now. Remember the 100 or so Israeli 'students' beign deported for spyign activity?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by gadster:
Actually, that kid looks like someone is tickling his 'nads. Did you crop that out?

The fact you came up with that says a lot. Do you WANT the kid to be tickling his nads?

[gadster]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
The fact you came up with that says a lot. Do you WANT the kid to be tickling his nads?

Don't be silly™, that's just your projection©.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by gadster:
Don't be silly™, that's just your projection©.

No, you were the one that said it. Not me.