[AutoJC]

So What is the Government doing about the ELF and their Wanton Destruction of Property?

I've read in the media, ad nauseum, about the Earth Liberation Front and their buring of himes under construction, their attacks on automobile lots to destroy SUV's, etc.

We need not only be concerned about Al Qaeda and their thtreat to the American way of life, we need now be concerned about these hooligans, who do such damage under the aegis of saving the environment.

[thunderous_funker]

Invade Iran and/or Syria. Blame the French.

[AutoJC]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Invade Iran and/or Syria. Blame the French.

Sorry, t-f, this is a thread about domestic terrorists.

[Spliffdaddy]

France certainly couldn't be blamed.

They haven't sold a car - much less an SUV in America since the 80's.

Renault and Peugeot aren't exactly a threat to the planet. Unless rust is considered a greenhouse gas.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by AutoJC:
Sorry, t-f, this is a thread about domestic terrorists.

What answer were you expecting? I'm sure the FBI and police agencies are all over it. Destroying expensive property probably makes ELF a very high priority.

Or did you mean the government needs to do something extra special? Like waive the need for warrants entirely or issue an extermination order for people who look suspiciously eco-conscious?

Or is this just a general rant over the seeming incompetence of our domestic law enforcement agencies and their inability to round up a bunch of patchouli smelly miscreants with a penchant for arson?

You compared the threat to that posed by Al'Queda (something I don't agree with) so I assumed you were hoping the government would launch some drastic campaign in response. Maybe we should ban environmental studies programs at universities? Outlaw tie-dye?

I trust our law enforcement is up to that task. They ought to be. This kind of criminal behavior isn't something new even ELF is.

[Logic]

Bomb their houses, bulldoze their families houses, put up a fence, invade the states that harbour them, and deny them the human rights these terrorists claim they have the right to. It is only a question of when and not if they will aquire WMD's and attack!!!

[macvillage.net]

As long as they are white Americans and/or of Europian decent... they can't be terrorists.

The state department's definition of terrorists is an outside group that goes against American Political/Fiscal bodies and/or it's allies.

There is no such term as "domestic terrorism".

Though many including myself use it (as Personally I beleve most of this BS is terrorism).


It's "Crime" or "Terrorism".

[thunderous_funker]

Well, technically ELF are terrorists. They are engaging in political violence to intimidate or provoke change. Luckily, so far their attacks have been on property and not people.

Sadly, the word terrorist lacks degrees (which is why people might be reluctant to use it here) and equates Al'Queda and ELF which I think is very unwarranted.

If we learned anything about domestic terrorism from the 60's, its that political violence almost invariably solidfies public position against you--even if your goals are the most noble, highminded kind of progressive reform. Secondly, the wheels of justice turn slowly but that is preferable to making a media circus out of fugitives who continue to elude justice--which works into the hands of the radicals. Consider the question of flag burning. Right now, if some angry person burns a flag its just another angry person burning a flag. If you pass a Constitutional Ammendment against flag burning, you will make a federal case out of every single person with an agenda who wants to set flame to cloth. Literally. Instant publicity, coverage and millions of dollars are now spent to combat something that has almost no chance of garnering public support and would most likely be completely ignored by everyone if it we weren't legally required to make a federal case out of each and every incident.

Law Enforcement will slowly, surely and quietly unravel organizations like ELF and those that escape immediate capture will eventually fade into black like every other radical domestic terrorist group ever. In fact, if the 60's are any indicator, they'll most likely become wealthy moderates or quiet middle class nobodies in about 20 years.

[AutoJC]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
What answer were you expecting? Or is this just a general rant over the seeming incompetence of our domestic law enforcement agencies and their inability to round up a bunch of patchouli smelly miscreants with a penchant for arson?

Bingo!

As far as your stating that the feds "are all over it," we shall see.

So far no results.

[AutoJC]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
the wheels of justice turn slowly but that is preferable to making a media circus out of fugitives who continue to elude justice--

While the wheels of justice turn slowly, the media circus will ROCK!

[voodoo]

why I think this thread is off to a good start!

let me just say that perhaps these are just baseless accusations - remember what clinton did - lied under oath!

[voodoo]

Also the ELF may or may not be terrorists like Al Qaida.

[voodoo]

Auto jc: projections don't make it true

[voodoo]

Perhaps you are just a bunch of crybabies?

There is nothing like a sore loser you know.

[voodoo]

What if these RLF guys are terrorists? isn't bush goona do somthing about it or is he lying under oath.?

[voodoo]

What you are not answering? maybe because you were just projecting and throwing baseless accusations like a crybaby?



I'm just joking

[voodoo]

What do you mean homegrown terrorism? is that like the bush administration?

[voodoo]

I'd like to link you to a very important page - it shows a lot of information about the topic at hand:

http://www.hi.is/~palmi/

unfortunately it is in icelandic but I hope you can read it.

[Zimphire]

[voodoo]

Still no lick translating it? Can't bablefish do it or somehting like that?

[voodoo]

I'm sure somewhere on the internet it is possible - I'd do it but the article is too long and all (many chapters)

[MacGorilla]

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by MacGorilla:

I thought so too. I mean they make cookies and crackers.

They aren't terrorists.

[Twilly Spree]

Originally posted by AutoJC:
So What is the Government doing about the ELF and their Wanton Destruction of Property?

I've read in the media, ad nauseum, about the Earth Liberation Front and their buring of himes under construction, their attacks on automobile lots to destroy SUV's, etc.

We need not only be concerned about Al Qaeda and their thtreat to the American way of life, we need now be concerned about these hooligans, who do such damage under the aegis of saving the environment.

I have not heard of this ELF but they sure are not gonna stop me from drivin my car whenever I want. People like that should be stopped!!

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
I have not heard of this ELF but they sure are not gonna stop me from drivin my car whenever I want. People like that should be stopped!!

There is some very good information on ELF at
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/

[bewebste]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Well, technically ELF are terrorists. They are engaging in political violence to intimidate or provoke change. Luckily, so far their attacks have been on property and not people.

Sadly, the word terrorist lacks degrees (which is why people might be reluctant to use it here) and equates Al'Queda and ELF which I think is very unwarranted.

I also have a bit of a problem with using the word "terrorist" to describe the ELF. The fact that their attacks so far have been on property and not people isn't accidental. They say explicity that they stand against the taking of lives, human or otherwise, and only aim to remove the motive of profit from the destruction of life on the planet. Whether their methods are effective at achieving their goals, of course, is up for debate.

I'm not condoning what they do, but I think lumping them together with Al-Qaeda (who explicity aim to kill people) as "terrorists" is misleading and puts it in people's minds that the ELF are trying to kill people, which they're not.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by bewebste:
I also have a bit of a problem with using the word "terrorist" to describe the ELF. The fact that their attacks so far have been on property and not people isn't accidental. They say explicity that they stand against the taking of lives, human or otherwise, and only aim to remove the motive of profit from the destruction of life on the planet. Whether their methods are effective at achieving their goals, of course, is up for debate.

I'm not condoning what they do, but I think lumping them together with Al-Qaeda (who explicity aim to kill people) as "terrorists" is misleading and puts it in people's minds that the ELF are trying to kill people, which they're not.

Well..unfortunately assasination has become a heated topic of the ELF and ALF. The environmental and animal groups are seeking to do more and more wilder things because it obviously gives them lots of publicity which helps their fundraising.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by bewebste:
I also have a bit of a problem with using the word "terrorist" to describe the ELF.

I agree. The term 'terrorist' gets thrown around recklessly a bit too often by both sides these days.

I'd classify ELF as arsonists and vandals mostly. On a more personal level, few other choice terms come to mind as well, but I try to keep my comments PG.

[Spliffdaddy]

Until somebody dies or is injured by the actions of ELF - they shouldn't be labeled 'terrorists'. Although it probably won't be long before a fireman or police officer is killed by an exploding SUV or other byproduct of arson.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Until somebody dies or is injured by the actions of ELF - they shouldn't be labeled 'terrorists'. Although it probably won't be long before a fireman or police officer is killed by an exploding SUV or other byproduct of arson.

So had the World Trade Center been blown up but no one killed or injured, then it would not have been an act of terrorism?

Or would that only be considered vandalism?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
So had the World Trade Center been blown up but no one killed or injured, then it would not have been an act of terrorism?

Or would that only be considered vandalism?

The INTENT of the 9/11 terrorists was to kill and spread terror.

As dippy as they are, ELF's intent (so far) isn't to kill or to terrorize using the threat of death.

The day they do kill someone (probaly accidentally) with their behavior, they'll merely graduate to becoming murderers.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
The INTENT of the 9/11 terrorists was to kill and spread terror.

As dippy as they are, ELF's intent (so far) isn't to kill or to terrorize using the threat of death.

The day they do kill someone (probaly accidentally) with their behavior, they'll merely graduate to becoming murderers.

So it would have been ok to have blown up the WTC as long as no one was killed, provided the intent was only to protest say..Global Warming?

[shmerek]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
So it would have been ok to have blown up the WTC as long as no one was killed, provided the intent was only to protest say..Global Warming?

Please, stop playing stupid.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by shmerek:
Please, stop playing stupid.

Would you consider that terrorism?