[thunderous_funker]

Former White House staffer? Got connections to presidents past and present? Got buddies in key administrative posts? Play golf with anyone in charge? Well then, Let the looting begin!

This is how the "market" really works.

[things]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Former White House staffer? Got connections to presidents past and present? Got buddies in key administrative posts? Play golf with anyone in charge? Well then, Let the looting begin!

This is how the "market" really works. [/
QUOTE]


Thanks for the link - Looting is what's happening. like they say -It's not what you know...

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Former White House staffer? Got connections to presidents past and present? Got buddies in key administrative posts? Play golf with anyone in charge? Well then, Let the looting begin!

This is how the "market" really works.

You are more than welcome to go to world's newest free country (Iraq) and open up a business. There are plenty of opportunities.

Instead of criticizing entrepreneurs, why don't you become one yourself? Too much risk and work for you, or do you prefer bitching and whining over initiative and hard work?

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
You are more than welcome to go to world's newest free country (Iraq) and open up a business. There are plenty of opportunities.

Instead of criticizing entrepreneurs, why don't you become one yourself? Too much risk and work for you, or do you prefer bitching and whining over initiative and hard work?

I'm not criticizing "entrepreneurs", I'm criticizing cronies who get sweetheart deals simply because they know the people handing out the contracts.

Also, we should be empowering Iraqi entrepreneurs, not selling the country to the friends of the US government, past and present.

I thought conservatives were openly suspicious centralized authority and intolerant of corruption in high places? What happened to you?

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
I'm not criticizing "entrepreneurs", I'm criticizing cronies who get sweetheart deals simply because they know the people handing out the contracts.

Also, we should be empowering Iraqi entrepreneurs, not selling the country to the friends of the US government, past and present.

I thought conservatives were openly suspicious centralized authority and intolerant of corruption in high places? What happened to you?

Have you gone to the government seeking a contract to do work in Iraq? How do you know that you wouldn't get the deal? And if you didn't, what makes you think that the only reason you didn't get the work is because you're not a cronie? Maybe it's because you're unqualified.

We'd like to empower the Iraqi businessman (and businesswoman), but it's going to be hard for the new Iraqi government to provide business grants and loans if the country is obliged to pay all of it's own reconstruction costs.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Have you gone to the government seeking a contract to do work in Iraq? How do you know that you wouldn't get the deal? And if you didn't, what makes you think that the only reason you didn't get the work is because you're not a cronie? Maybe it's because you're unqualified.

The article makes very clear that companies are scrambling to hire lobbyists with connections to washington in order to win contracts. Why would GM need to hire an insider lobbyist to win a contract if it could resonably expect to win it on merit? Are you saying American businesses are too stupid to know they don't need multimillion dollar lobbyists to get in? That's not what those businesses and lobbyists are saying. They seem to know exactly how to get their bread buttered even if you don't.

Don't tell me you didn't already know that government contracts are awarded on political favors, cronyism and paybacks. Hell, that practice goes back to the beginning of time. Or are you just selectively blind to the practice while the GOP is in the White House?

Originally posted by spacefreak:
We'd like to empower the Iraqi businessman (and businesswoman), but it's going to be hard for the new Iraqi government to provide business grants and loans if the country is obliged to pay all of it's own reconstruction costs.

What are you talking about?

Recap: 192 business that belong to the Iraqi people are being sold to Americans. Businesses are hiring Washington insiders as lobbyists to insure they get a slice of the action and talking very openly about needing to buy their way in through connections and lobbying.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
The article makes very clear that companies are scrambling to hire lobbyists with connections to washington in order to win contracts. Why would GM need to hire an insider lobbyist to win a contract if it could resonably expect to win it on merit? Are you saying American businesses are too stupid to know they don't need multimillion dollar lobbyists to get in? That's not what those businesses and lobbyists are saying. They seem to know exactly how to get their bread buttered even if you don't.

Don't tell me you didn't already know that government contracts are awarded on political favors, cronyism and paybacks. Hell, that practice goes back to the beginning of time. Or are you just selectively blind to the practice while the GOP is in the White House?

If a company wants to get streamlined, up-to-date information regarding an Iraq contact, find out which opportunity is best for them, and be able to get specific information and feedback during the pre-bid and bidding process....contact a lobbyist. That's the service they provide. They act as a go-between for the firm and government, and they are on-the-ground in Baghdad.

If a company wants to scan through millions of pages of goverment publications, isolate bid opportunities that may be up their ally, decipher the bidding requirements, blindly send people to Baghdad to verify the sites and perform surveys, then put together a bid (hoping they have met all the adminstrative and documentary requirements to qualify), and cross their fingers....they can do that as well.

If I'm GM, I hire the lobbyist. Sure, I'll lose some margin on the deal - but I'll also be more likely to get the contract because I'll be able to get the precise information from the lobbyist as to what the government is looking for, what price range they want the contract to come in at, if there are any errors in my bid proposal.

Does preferential consideration occur? Sure, but not ridiculous ones. Company A is not going to get $200 million for a job that Companies B, C, D, and E can offer for $50 million. It just doesn't happen.

Institutional sales as a whole is a contact-intensive process. It always will be, at least until computers make all the decisions.

[thunderous_funker]

Yep. No corruption in government. No sir. Its all on the up and up. The best man always wins, not the one who greases the most wheels.

Its very amusing to watch the same people who constantly harp about the evils of big federal government buraucracy stand on their ideological heads just so they don't have to agree with a "liberal".

I guess we'll come back and revisit this when there are companies buying favors during the next Democratic president's term. I wonder if you'll be as equally confident in the fairness and equity of the lobbying process.

You didn't even seem to care that democrats were just as guilty of buying their way into Bagdad as Republicans. Remarkable.

I'm glad to see that you've finally decided that the Fed is completely trustworthy and that nothing untoward goes on in Washington when it comes to billion dollar government contracts. I'll have to remember that for future discussions.

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
If a company wants to get streamlined, up-to-date information regarding an Iraq contact, find out which opportunity is best for them, and be able to get specific information and feedback during the pre-bid and bidding process....contact a lobbyist. That's the service they provide. They act as a go-between for the firm and government, and they are on-the-ground in Baghdad.

If a company wants to scan through millions of pages of goverment publications, isolate bid opportunities that may be up their ally, decipher the bidding requirements, blindly send people to Baghdad to verify the sites and perform surveys, then put together a bid (hoping they have met all the adminstrative and documentary requirements to qualify), and cross their fingers....they can do that as well.

If I'm GM, I hire the lobbyist. Sure, I'll lose some margin on the deal - but I'll also be more likely to get the contract because I'll be able to get the precise information from the lobbyist as to what the government is looking for, what price range they want the contract to come in at, if there are any errors in my bid proposal.

Does preferential consideration occur? Sure, but not ridiculous ones. Company A is not going to get $200 million for a job that Companies B, C, D, and E can offer for $50 million. It just doesn't happen.

Institutional sales as a whole is a contact-intensive process. It always will be, at least until computers make all the decisions.

Thanks for the early morning laugh; I needed that!

[scoxx]

Baghdad Burning:

Yesterday, I read how it was going to take up to $90 billion to rebuild Iraq. Bremer was shooting out numbers about how much it was going to cost to replace buildings and bridges and electricity, etc.

Listen to this little anecdote. One of my cousins works in a prominent engineering company in Baghdad- we’ll call the company H. This company is well-known for designing and building bridges all over Iraq. My cousin, a structural engineer, is a bridge freak. He spends hours talking about pillars and trusses and steel structures to anyone who’ll listen.

As May was drawing to a close, his manager told him that someone from the CPA wanted the company to estimate the building costs of replacing the New Diyala Bridge on the South East end of Baghdad. He got his team together, they went out and assessed the damage, decided it wasn’t too extensive, but it would be costly. They did the necessary tests and analyses (mumblings about soil composition and water depth, expansion joints and girders) and came up with a number they tentatively put forward- $300,000. This included new plans and designs, raw materials (quite cheap in Iraq), labor, contractors, travel expenses, etc.

Let’s pretend my cousin is a dolt. Let’s pretend he hasn’t been working with bridges for over 17 years. Let’s pretend he didn’t work on replacing at least 20 of the 133 bridges damaged during the first Gulf War. Let’s pretend he’s wrong and the cost of rebuilding this bridge is four times the number they estimated- let’s pretend it will actually cost $1,200,000. Let’s just use our imagination.

A week later, the New Diyala Bridge contract was given to an American company. This particular company estimated the cost of rebuilding the bridge would be around- brace yourselves- $50,000,000 !!

[gadster]

OK, Spacefreak, Let's say I can produce cheaper lamb than your US farmers can. I can even ship it over, and it's still cheaper, and better quality. Can I sell it to the US market on a level playing field? Let me help you: the answer is NO. Would you please get rid of import protection for US producers of lamb? Fair free market competition? Until you can answer that question in the affirmative then STFU.

I cannot believe the hypocrisy of you cünts. Out of your back arse you spout all this right wing free market theory, yet out of your front bum comes policy that, frankly, makes you look like complete fukholes.

The US is on the nose for a reason. Save yourselves some grief, sack the spin doctors and the morons who create the policies that necessitates them, and get yourself a real government. There is a reason you are hated around the world, you should get a think-tank to check it out.

Sorry, Spacefreak, I don't mean you personally., I'm just feeling cranky, and 'one' sounds stupid. USA WAKE UP.