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Uday's Carcass · Oct 16, 2003, 09:41 AM

You infidels see what the Malaysian PM is spewing. Allah in Paradise, what a retard.

"The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million, but today the Jews rule the world by proxy," Mahathir said. "They get others to fight and die for them."

Jews "invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy" to avoid persecution and gain control of the most powerful countries.

Jews rule the world by proxy

Countdown to Robert's chiming in, 'validating' it all as gospel.

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 09:48 AM

We got one of these threads in the lounge.
I wonder which will live.

eklipse · Oct 16, 2003, 09:50 AM

It's all very well identifying 'the enemy' but what is he gonna do about it? Talk is cheap.

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 10:07 AM

Islam and the West

Uday's Carcass · Oct 16, 2003, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
We got one of these threads in the lounge.
I wonder which will live.

It's clearly a political/war/religion/politics thread. As such it belongs in the Pol/War Lounge. And the other one is a poll. They both belong here. The poll adds another dimension to the thread.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 16, 2003, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by eklipse:
It's all very well identifying 'the enemy' but what is he gonna do about it? Talk is cheap.

figures. You're all ready, fired up to beging the Grand Jihad and initiate your plan for Final Victory (sounds a lot like Final Solution to me) against the Evil Jews.

Go be a hater someplace else. I hear Hamas in hiring.

eklipse · Oct 16, 2003, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
figures. You're all ready, fired up to beging the Grand Jihad and initiate your plan for Final Victory (sounds a lot like Final Solution to me) against the Evil Jews.

Go be a hater someplace else. I hear Hamas in hiring.

I think the temperature in that CIA meatlocker is getting to your brain.

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
It's clearly a political/war/religion/politics thread. As such it belongs in the Pol/War Lounge. The infidel creating the one in the regular Lounge is misguided.

......and banninated from this area.

Logic · Oct 16, 2003, 10:14 AM

And when the same PM said this no one noticed it

Uday's Carcass · Oct 16, 2003, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
......and banninated from this area.

Is he seriously banned? When did that happen? What thread?

Jeez. I'm gone for a couple days and this place gets overrun by you stump-ridden Lackies of Liberal Botulism.

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
And when the same PM said this no one noticed it

People only hear what they want to, I guess.
Sad.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 16, 2003, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
And when the same PM said this no one noticed it

Calling for peaceful Islam has nothing to do with beating the lame drum of Jewish Conspiracy International.

Played out. Everything is either the fault of the West or the Jews.

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
Is he seriously banned? When did that happen? What thread?

Well, I'm assuming so. When's the last time he posted here?

Logic · Oct 16, 2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Well, I'm assuming so. When's the last time he posted here?

And why would he post a political/religious thread in the lounge and not here?

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
Played out. Everything is either the fault of the West or the Jews.

Both the East and West play an equal role in todays mess.
The situation is spiralling out of control....and fast.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 16, 2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Well, I'm assuming so. When's the last time he posted here?

Know what happens when you assume?

You make an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'. hahahahah.

Don't assume too much. Maybe he'll post here. It's doubtful he's banned: he knows the left and right limits and stays within them. Some of you other freaks stray far outside the bounds and yet don't get banned.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 16, 2003, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
And why would he post a political/religious thread in the lounge and not here?

Probably to attract greater interest. It is a poll after all, so he's most likely looking for a large target audience to gauge sentiment. Makes sense.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 16, 2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Both the East and West play an equal role in todays mess.

hah. The Great Satan and Lesser Satan and their proxies are now to blame. I put the blame firmly on the shoulders of the region's countries. They've been mired in and preoccupied with extremism, fanaticism, antisemitism, cronyism, and despotism for decades, despite being mainly part of the NAM (nonaligned movement) during the Cold War.

Logic · Oct 16, 2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
It's clearly a political/war/religion/politics thread. As such it belongs in the Pol/War Lounge. And the other one is a poll. They both belong here. The poll adds another dimension to the thread.

Probably to attract greater interest. It is a poll after all, so he's most likely looking for a large target audience to gauge sentiment. Makes sense.

Make up your mind please.

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
hah. The Great Satan and Lesser Satan and their proxies are now to blame. I put the blame firmly on the shoulders of the region's countries. They've been mired in and preoccupied with extremism, fanaticism, antisemitism, cronyism, and despotism for decades, despite being mainly part of the NAM (nonaligned movement) during the Cold War.

Ah, I see, Islam has replaced Communism, in the eyes of the West, namely the US.

Lerkfish · Oct 16, 2003, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Ah, I see, Islam has replaced Communism, in the eyes of the West, namely the US.

well, no, "liberal" has replaced communism, in the eyes of the right. Try to keep it straight...mmmmkay?

Logic · Oct 16, 2003, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
well, no, "liberal" has replaced communism, in the eyes of the right. Try to keep it straight...mmmmkay?

What about liberal muslims

Face Ache · Oct 16, 2003, 10:41 AM

Mahathir is a fruitcake who plays up to extremists to boost his domestic popularity. He's retiring soon and trying to leave a mark. That's all.

The Indonesian PM cried giving him a farewell speech.

So, Australia is trying to integrate itself into Asia, but is seen by many nations down here as "the US' deputy sheriff" and always pushing it's (feather-)weight around. Mahathir is always saying this and has almost single-handedly kept Australia out of the ASEAN meetings.

So what does George W. Bush come out and say yesterday?

Howard push to hose down sheriff furore

By Mark Riley and Anne Davies
October 17, 2003

The Federal Government is scrambling to avert a new regional controversy ahead of this weekend's APEC meeting after United States President George Bush described Australia as "sheriff" of the Asia-Pacific.

His comment, meant as a compliment to Australia's international standing, risked reigniting regional sensitivities over the closeness of the relationship between the two countries.

Government figures and the US ambassador moved swiftly yesterday to hose down suggestions that Australia's near neighbours would be offended.

However, the Malaysian Government has already said the comment reinforced the view that Australia was acting as a United States "puppet" in East Asia.

The controversy sprang from a response Mr Bush gave in an interview with a group of Asia-Pacific journalists this week when asked whether he saw Australia as his "deputy sheriff" in the region.

The perceived endorsement of that term by the Prime Minister, John Howard, during a magazine interview four years ago prompted an angry response from some regional countries, led by the Malaysian leader, Mahathir Mohamad.

Mr Bush said this week: "We don't see [Australia] as a deputy sheriff. We see it as a sheriff. There's a difference . . . equal partners, friends and allies. There's nothing deputy about this relationship."

The US Ambassador, Tom Schieffer, said the comments had been taken out of context and that Mr Bush was trying to discourage any suggestion that the US saw Australia as a subservient partner.

"What the President was trying to say is he regards Australia as an equal, not some sort of junior partner that needs to be dictated to," he said.

"I really am mystified by the reaction . . . I think Australia has played an enormously significant role in the region for decades, and the President was just recognising that."

The Minister for Defence, Robert Hill, said he would not describe Australia as a sheriff and did not believe Mr Bush had meant his comments to carry any provocative connotation.

Who the hell are this guy's advisors? Diplomacy. D.I.P.L.O.M.A.C.Y.

We have 300 million pissed off Muslims right on our doorstep. We're walking on eggshells down here and along comes Bush, jumping in wearing his bovver boots.

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
What about liberal muslims

More accurate, I guess.

djjava · Oct 16, 2003, 10:49 AM

For your entertainment.

http://www.coxandforkum.com

eklipse · Oct 16, 2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
What about liberal muslims

They're ****ed.

Wiskedjak · Oct 16, 2003, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
Calling for peaceful Islam has nothing to do with beating the lame drum of Jewish Conspiracy International.

Is that similar to the lame drum of Muslim Conspiracy International?

AutoJC · Oct 16, 2003, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by eklipse:
They're ****ed.

They sure are.

By their own kind!

Lerkfish · Oct 16, 2003, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
What about liberal muslims

I"m afraid you're on your own. I'm too busy keeping my own white anglosaxon christian liberal @ss out of trouble.

Lerkfish · Oct 16, 2003, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Mahathir is a fruitcake who plays up to extremists to boost his domestic popularity. He's retiring soon and trying to leave a mark. That's all.

The Indonesian PM cried giving him a farewell speech.

So, Australia is trying to integrate itself into Asia, but is seen by many nations down here as "the US' deputy sheriff" and always pushing it's (feather-)weight around. Mahathir is always saying this and has almost single-handedly kept Australia out of the ASEAN meetings.

So what does George W. Bush come out and say yesterday?

Who the hell are this guy's advisors? Diplomacy. D.I.P.L.O.M.A.C.Y.

We have 300 million pissed off Muslims right on our doorstep. We're walking on eggshells down here and along comes Bush, jumping in wearing his bovver boots.

[treasure of sierra madre] Diplomacy? we don' need no steenkin diplomacy! [/treasure of sierra madre]

unfortunately, though I mean that as a joke, Bush doesn't.

Lerkfish · Oct 16, 2003, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by djjava:
For your entertainment.

oh, yeah, I find racist threats highly entertaining...

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 01:21 PM

.

AutoJC · Oct 16, 2003, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Ah, I see, Islam has replaced Communism, in the eyes of the West, namely the US.

Yup. In your eyes the Islamics, the Communists, and the West are moral equivalents.

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
Yup. In your eyes the Islamics, the Communists, and the West are moral equivalents.

christ · Oct 16, 2003, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by AutoJC:

Yup. In your eyes the Islamics, the Communists, and the West are moral equivalents.

Sorry, I didn't understand your post.

Did it mean that, in your eyes, Muslims are not the moral equivalent to the West?

Or Communists?

Or what?

AutoJC · Oct 16, 2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:

I gather that means "You don't get it."

Figures.

Lerkfish · Oct 16, 2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by AutoJC:

Yup. In your eyes the Islamics, the Communists, and the West are moral equivalents.

um....(starts to correct AutoJC, then thinks better of it)....never mind.

Lerkfish · Oct 16, 2003, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
I gather that means "You don't get it."

Figures.

um....no.....I think you should poke yourself with that stick. Try rereading the thread. you're welcome.

AutoJC · Oct 16, 2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by christ:
Sorry, I didn't understand your post.

Did it mean that, in your eyes, Muslims are not the moral equivalent to the West?

Or Communists?

Or what?

Where there are Islamic nations, only one of them is a "free republic"- and even the status of Afghanistan is in doubt there.

Muslims in these countries do not believe in individual rights. Prove me wrong.

Lerkfish · Oct 16, 2003, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
Where there are Islamic nations, only one of them is a "free republic"- and even the status of Afghanistan is in doubt there.

Muslims in these countries do not believe in individual rights. Prove me wrong.

hey, I got an idea: prove yourself right instead.

christ · Oct 16, 2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by AutoJC:
Where there are Islamic nations, only one of them is a "free republic"- and even the status of Afghanistan is in doubt there.

Muslims in these countries do not believe in individual rights. Prove me wrong.

Why?

Why is it that the only morality that you will accept as valid is the morality of the Big Mac?

Not believing in individual rights is equivalent morally to believing in individual rights.

Just because you think that they are wrong doesn't make them any less moral. They think you are wrong, too.

Open your mind, grasshopper, let some thought in.

lil'babykitten · Oct 16, 2003, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by christ:
Open your mind, grasshopper, let some thought in.

Impossible. This is AutoJC remember.

christ · Oct 16, 2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Impossible. This is AutoJC remember.

But according to my morality, even lost causes are worth chasing.

macvillage.net · Oct 16, 2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
You infidels see what the Malaysian PM is spewing. Allah in Paradise, what a retard.

Countdown to Robert's chiming in, 'validating' it all as gospel.

Unlike you, I *never* justify the killing of civilians because of their religious background.

</End of Topic>

Uday's Carcass · Oct 16, 2003, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
Unlike you, I *never* justify the killing of civilians because of their religious background.

Robert, I've never even attempted to justify the killing of civilians based on religious background. Better cough up some quotes or you'll look the fool (well, more so).

All you infidels would be wise to reject the PM's message of hatred and ignorance. It only leads Muslims farther down the path of Impotence and Marginalisation--two areas that many Muslim nations are very familiar with.

Face Ache · Oct 16, 2003, 08:25 PM

I imagine Americans aren't very familiar with Asian muslim countries, but I can tell you that after the Iraq debacle they're going backwards at a rate of knots. They (with the exception of the Phillipines) are barely cooperating in the War on Terror�. Australia's support of the US has seen us ostracised within our own global area.

The Indonesian PM didn't even attend the Bali bombing anniversary ceremony (in Bali).

vmarks · Oct 16, 2003, 08:40 PM

My dear friends,

When I read that a prime minister of a country has said such things publicly and had his fellow conference attendees chime in with sympathy, it is a fearsome world we live in.

"The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million, but today the Jews rule the world by proxy," Mahathir said. "They get others to fight and die for them."

quote:
Jews "invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy" to avoid persecution and gain control of the most powerful countries.

quote:
Jews rule the world by proxy

The only thing I can do to console myself is recall the old joke of two Jewish men reading newspapers.

So, the two men sat on the bench reading their papers, and one looks at the other and says, "What, you're not reading the Yiddish Gazette? What is this you've got, the Nation of Islam paper?"

And the other says, "Yes. When you read your paper, the Jews are being discriminated against again, the community is failing, the pogroms, oy!- But when I read this paper, the Jews are on top! This paper says we run the world, have all the money, and are in charge of it all!"

"But it isn't true!"

"Nu, what's life without some happy news?"

Uday's Carcass · Oct 16, 2003, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by Face Ache:
I imagine Americans aren't very familiar with Asian muslim countries, but I can tell you that after the Iraq debacle they're going backwards at a rate of knots. They (with the exception of the Phillipines) are barely cooperating in the War on Terror�.

That's their problem. Tick off the Great Satan and good things won't happen to you. Encouraging terrorists within your own borders is never good for your power base or country, either.

The Indonesian PM didn't even attend the Bali bombing anniversary ceremony (in Bali).

The bastard was probably celebrating it with wire transfers to Al Queda or toasting their grand 'victory' over the Australian infidels.

No wonder their societies are in the gutter. With 'leaders' like that, and with a sympathetic populace, they deserve to be Sh*teholes of the World.

Face Ache · Oct 16, 2003, 09:39 PM

Oops I meant the Indonesian President, not PM -Megawati Soekarnoputri.

eklipse · Oct 17, 2003, 07:25 AM

Did anybody actually read Mahathir's speech in it's entirety? - or just Uday's choice quotes?

No?

Oh well, here is the complete text: http://thestar.com.my/oic/story.asp?...02&sec=OIC

For those who bothered to read it, can someone please tell where the incitement of hatred towards Jews can be found?

Uday quotes: "'The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million, but today the Jews rule the world by proxy,' Mahathir said. 'They get others to fight and die for them.'"

The full quote is:

We are actually very strong � 1.3 billion people cannot be simply wiped out. The Europeans killed six million Jews out of 12 million. But today, the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them.

The way I read it, Mahathir is drawing a comparison and praising the Jews for their resilience. If anything, he is flattering the Jewish people and encouraging Muslims to be more like them and strive to achieve the same goals. This is something I whole-heartedly support, feel is sadly lacking in Islamic society and would welcome as a revolutionary step forward. Assuming that your cause is just, what is wrong with getting others to 'fight and die' alongside you? Bush does it all the time - however, the justness of his cause is questionable.

Uday quotes: "Jews 'invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy' to avoid persecution and gain control of the most powerful countries"

The full quote is:

The enemy will probably welcome these proposals and we will conclude that the promoters are working for the enemy. But think. We are up against a people who think. They survived 2,000 years of pogroms not by hitting back, but by thinking. They invented and successfully promoted Socialism, Communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong, so they may enjoy equal rights with others. With these, they have now gained control of the most powerful countries and they, this tiny community, have become a world power. We cannot fight them through brawn alone. We must use our brains also.

Firstly, what is so wrong with 'inventing socialism, human rights and democracy'? Even if it's not entirely accurate, where is the stigma in being associated with such things? The Jews were slaughtered in Nazi Germany and hardly anyone cared, doesn't it makes sense to promote a society that protects the rights of innocents so that such a terrible crime does not happen again? I don't believe Mahathir is 'pissed off that Jews can no longer be persecuted', again I believe he is drawing a comparison; the Jews achieved equal rights, they achieved freedom from persecution, they showed the world how wrong such actions were and their 'tiny community' became a powerful and influencial force. His point would appear to be: Muslims need to achieve the same - and again, I agree.

Uday repeats his quote: "Jews rule the world by proxy" (for added emphasis and effect no doubt)

As I have already pointed out, the statement was more likely an 'exagerrated comparison' than an 'incitement of fear and loathing towards Jews'. But the question remains, do Jews rule the world? The answer, in my opinion, is no, but, they do hold an inordinately large amount of power and influence. Is this a bad thing? No. So long as their intentions are purely benevolent, I have absolutely no problem with 'Jews in high places' - I just wish others (Muslims especially) would learn from their sense of group cooperation and success and strive to achieve the same.

The problem with this ideal is that in recent times the image of the 'benevolent Jewish overseer' has been tarnished somewhat. Israel ('the forever to be recognized home of the Jewish people') is clearly the dominant force in the middle-eastern arena, yet, are they the caring and compassionate superpower? The answer, unfortunately, is 'no' - they have been and continue to be one of the most brutal and oppresive regimes in the region. And what of the Jewish/pro-Zionist movement in Washington? Have they been the calming voice of reason through troubled times? No. They have plotted and promoted the invasion and destruction of two pre-dominantly Muslim countries and continue to turn a blind eye to the attrocities committed by Israel in the occupied territories.

This is what makes me (and apparently a lot of Muslims too) suspicious of the Jewish power brokers' agenda. Mahathir is sending a message that the Muslims are getting angry and he identifies Israel as one of the enemies of the Muslim people - based upon it's actions to date. At the same time, he recognizes that not all non-Muslims are against Islam and it's followers:

We also know that not all non-Muslims are against us. Some are well disposed towards us. Some even see our enemies as their enemies. Even among the Jews, there are many who do not approve of what the Israelis are doing.

He warns that Muslims can and should fight back (not necessrily via military means) in self-defence if their lives and culture are threatened - if people are offended and/or intimidated by such a statement, perhaps they should rethink their positions?