[eklipse]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3208927.stm
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/me...t.settlements/
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...p;section=news

The Israeli government is going ahead with the construction of more than 300 new homes in Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, defying the so-called roadmap peace plan.

The housing ministry has invited bidders for 143 new apartments in the Karnei Shomron settlement in the north of the West Bank, and another 180 in Givat Zeev, north of Jerusalem.

The American-backed plan for the Middle East, known as the roadmap, requires Israel to freeze construction of settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The Palestinians say the scheme shows Israel wants to bury the roadmap for peace.

It is the second time this month Israel has defied the plan; having earlier unveiled plans for 600 new homes in West Bank settlements.

Let me guess: this is in direct response to Palestinian terrorism, if suicide bombers didn't keep detonating themselves in public places; Israel wouldn't have to build apartment blocks, right?

[macvillage.net]

The roadmap prevents planning new construction.

The Israeli's had plans for over a decade for dozens of new communities. Because of the wording in the roadmap. Anything planned is technically not part of the roadmap. This building doesn't violate, as it was planned well prior to the roadmap's acceptance. It was just annnounced and moved forward recently.

One of the many objections nobody cared to deal with.


The roadmap had 0% chance on success. It was full of holes, and had nothing to stand on.

[lil'babykitten]

It's not like Sharon ever committed to the road map anyway. So should we be surprised about this? I think not.

[vmarks]

Simply untrue.

Sharon committed to the roadmap fully, with the added promise that Israel would continue to defend herself and respond to attacks if the PA did not.

The roadmap laid out very specific steps which were to have been taken by both sides, by target dates. Israel complied with all required of her by the target dates. The PA, whether due to financial inability, civil displeasure over the required steps, Arafat undercutting Abbas, or the notion that actually accosting those who plan and commit terror would be nothing short of inviting civil war, failed to meet any of the target timeline milestones. Yet, Israel and the US forgave the PA this and kept moving forward with the roadmap anyway.

In fact, the roadmap is not dead. Patience, for it is still alive, and Israel is waiting for the PA PM to meet any of the requirements involved. Until that time, Israel will keep her promise to defend herself.

Indeed, the current PA PM has specifically asked to avoid meeting with the Israeli government delegation about progress on the roadmap. Instead, the Israeli delegation, headed by Dov Weinglass, director of the Prime Minister's Bureau, will try and establish what Qureia's intentions are, and whether the implementation of the roadmap can be advanced.

The Israelis will meet with cabinet level PA officials, including Finance Minister Salam Fayad.

Sharon is assuming that Qureia (Abu Ala) will not resign, and remain in office following the expiration of his temporary appointment on November 4th.

Sharon held a special debate last Wednesday with the heads of the defense establishment on Israel's policy vis-a-vis Abu Ala and his cabinet. The military position was that Israel should prevent the complete collapse of the PA, which may lead to chaos and subsequent military occupation or strengthening of PA chairman Arafat. The IDF concluded that Israel had erred not in supporting Abbas as an ally and presenting him as such, but in not doing enough to establish his rule.

Shaul Mofaz, Israeli Defense Minister, has ordered that some of the hardships on the PA populations will be alleviated. These orders go into effect on Tuesday.

So, don't believe for one minute that Sharon doesn't subscribe to the roadmap.

What remains to be seen is this: Can Abu Ala (Quriea) stay PM after Nov 4th? Can he unite security forces under his PM office, undoing the damage that Arafat did in making the PM's security cabinet position redundant?

[Uday's Carcass]

Arafat isn't out to help the Palestinians. Remember that, terrorist-justifying, filthy pig-eaters. He's lining his pockets every year the conflict worsens.

Israelis and Palestinians want peace.
Arafat doesn't. And with the help of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Arafat gets exactly what he wants--chaos, uncertainly, death, and riches.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by vmarks:
....Israel will keep her promise to defend herself.

By building on disputed land? In an open snub to the peace plan? In a move that is likely in incite further violence?

And what's in the news today? 'Israel destroys Gaza buildings'

The Israeli army has moved into the Gaza Strip to destroy buildings near the Netzarim Jewish settlement.

Israel troops temporarily evacuated 2,000 Palestinians early on Sunday, before blowing up three partly-completed tower blocks and levelling them in huge explosions, witnesses said.

The Israelis believe the buildings were being used by militants to observe troop movements, security sources said.

Three Israeli soldiers were killed at Netzarim on Friday, after Palestinian gunmen entered the settlement in an attack claimed by the militant groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

The destroyed buildings were being constructed by Palestinian Preventive Security, the main security force in Gaza.

Here's an idea: Instead of destroying Palestinian homes and building new Israeli apartment blocks, why doesn't Israel just execute the Palestinian occupants then move settlers into their homes - surely this will save time and money, help bolster Israel's crumbling economy and garner great support for it's bloodthirsty prime minister?

[eklipse]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
The Israeli's had plans for over a decade for dozens of new communities. Because of the wording in the roadmap. Anything planned is technically not part of the roadmap. This building doesn't violate, as it was planned well prior to the roadmap's acceptance. It was just annnounced and moved forward recently.

In that case we all better watch out, 'Greater Israel' knows no bounds.

[einmakom]

Originally posted by eklipse:
By building on disputed land? In an open snub to the peace plan? In a move that is likely in incite further violence?

And what's in the news today? 'Israel destroys Gaza buildings'

Here's an idea: Instead of destroying Palestinian homes and building new Israeli apartment blocks, why doesn't Israel just execute the Palestinian occupants then move settlers into their homes - surely this will save time and money, help bolster Israel's crumbling economy and garner great support for it's bloodthirsty prime minister?

Sharon isn't bloodthirsty in this example.

You must re-read the article. The 13-story buildings that were being used to watch IDF movements were not completed buildings. The evacuations were done of nearby buildings in order to prevent innocent residents from injury during the demolition.

From Haaretz:

Early Sunday morning, the IDF blew up three partly constructed and uninhabited buildings in the central Gaza Strip.

Security sources said the un-inhabited 13-story buildings, which overlooked the settlement of Netzarim, were destroyed because Palestinian militants had used them to plan an attack on the settlement on Friday in which three IDF soldiers were killed.

Temporary evacuation orders was issued to some 2,000 residents of nearby houses, to prevent civilian casualties when the buildings were blown up. The residents were allowed to return to their homes after the operation was completed.

One security official said plans to demolish the
buildings were drawn up about a year ago but
the decision to implement them was taken only after Friday's attack, which was claimed by Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

vmarks answered you clearly about how the roadmap is not deceased, and you want to believe that it is. At this very moment, Qureia is inviting Hamas brothers to meet with him to talk about ceasing attacks in mutual talks with Israel. Hamas, surprisingly, says they are willing to meet with Qureia.

It is a good day, I believe, but all you want to do is point at the white cottony clouds in the sky and moan about the potential for rain.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by einmakom:
Sharon isn't bloodthirsty in this example.

You must re-read the article. The 13-story buildings that were being used to watch IDF movements were not completed buildings. The evacuations were done of nearby buildings in order to prevent innocent residents from injury during the demolition.

I read the article thanks, the buildings were Palestinian property being constructed by a Palestinian security force - Israel had no right to destroy them. I never stated or implied that Israel had endangered lives in this operation, I suggested a means by which which Israel could improve the efficiency of it's devastation of Palestinian society and infrastructure and hence achieve it's objectives faster.

vmarks answered you clearly about how the roadmap is not deceased, and you want to believe that it is. At this very moment, Qureia is inviting Hamas brothers to meet with him to talk about ceasing attacks in mutual talks with Israel. Hamas, surprisingly, says they are willing to meet with Qureia.

It is a good day, I believe, but all you want to do is point at the white cottony clouds in the sky and moan about the potential for rain.

I might be the one looking at the clouds but Israel is the one seeding them with silver iodide.

[Spliffdaddy]

geez. get a grip.

you're like a one of those talking dolls that says the same damned thing every time the string is pulled.

[einmakom]

Originally posted by eklipse:
I read the article thanks, the buildings were Palestinian property being constructed by a Palestinian security force - Israel had no right to destroy them. I never stated or implied that Israel had endangered lives in this operation, I suggested a means by which which Israel could improve the efficiency of it's devastation of Palestinian society and infrastructure and hence achieve it's objectives faster.

I might be the one looking at the clouds but Israel is the one seeding them with silver iodide.

Destruction of PA infrastructure was never a goal- protecting Israelis from the violence is. If you fail to see the difference, it is your own failing.

Additionally, it is time for a fact check, my brother.

Israel had two experiments with silver iodide cloud seeding, from 1961-1975. This seeding yielded a 14% increase in rain. Since that time, Israeli scientists have been looking at other ways to gain more efficient rain production, such as seeding with dust, which increases rain production by as much as 40%.

Dust, on its own, does not affect cloud formation very much. It simply produces more ice crystals in the upper layers of a cloud but dust does change the composition and size of droplets in the clouds which can make the clouds more efficient rain producers.

You miss that Israel is, and has always been, committed to finding a partner for peace. That Israel has always come to the table to negotiate, time and time against after being denied peace. Israel is, even now, pursuing the roadmap despite the PA's failings to even complete one element of it's duties towards the roadmap.

You wail about how there is no hope, and yet ignore the positive steps under your very nose.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by einmakom:
Destruction of PA infrastructure was never a goal- protecting Israelis from the violence is. If you fail to see the difference, it is your own failing.

If Israel is unable to see that the former undermines the latter it is their own failing.

Additionally, it is time for a fact check, my brother.

Israel had two experiments with silver iodide cloud seeding, from 1961-1975. This seeding yielded a 14% increase in rain. Since that time, Israeli scientists have been looking at other ways to gain more efficient rain production, such as seeding with dust, which increases rain production by as much as 40%.

Dust, on its own, does not affect cloud formation very much. It simply produces more ice crystals in the upper layers of a cloud but dust does change the composition and size of droplets in the clouds which can make the clouds more efficient rain producers.

I hear that demolishing buildings creates an awful lot of dust though.

You miss that Israel is, and has always been, committed to finding a partner for peace. That Israel has always come to the table to negotiate, time and time against after being denied peace. Israel is, even now, pursuing the roadmap despite the PA's failings to even complete one element of it's duties towards the roadmap.

You wail about how there is no hope, and yet ignore the positive steps under your very nose.

I don't 'wail about lack of hope' and I don't 'ignore positive steps', I am however frustrated that every time there appears to be the slightest possibility for peace; one side blows up a house or the other side blows up one of themselves. I don't absolve the Palestinians of all responsibility for the lack of peace, but, I do find this mentality of 'Israeli sh*t does not stink' extremely irrating and counter-productive. The best thing both sides can do is: admit they have both done wrong in the past, stop the suicide bombings, stop the military incursions, stop the political infighting, stop fence/settlement buildings, stop the demolition of other people's property and sit down and seriously hammer out a workable peace - no need for American (or anyone else's) intervention - no need for more death and destruction.