[petehammer]

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/...1028_1527.html

This is an AP story.

WASHINGTON Oct. 28 — Six months after he spoke on an aircraft carrier deck under a banner proclaiming "Mission Accomplished," President Bush disavowed any connection with the war message.
The phrase has been mocked many times since Bush's carrier speech as criticism has mounted over the failed search for weapons of mass destruction and the continuing violence in Iraq.

When it was brought up again Tuesday at a news conference, Bush said, "The `Mission Accomplished' sign, of course, was put up by the members of the USS Abraham Lincoln, saying that their mission was accomplished."

"I know it was attributed somehow to some ingenious advance man from my staff they weren't that ingenious, by the way."

That explanation hadn't surfaced during months of questions to White House officials about proclaiming the mission in Iraq successful while violence continued.

The president's appearance on the Abraham Lincoln, which was returning home after service in the Persian Gulf, included his dramatic and much-publicized landing on the ship's deck.

Bush's disavowal Tuesday brought new criticism from retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark, who is seeking the Democratic nomination to run against the president. Clark said Bush "backtracked on his May 1 political photo op on the USS Abraham Lincoln by blaming the troops on the aircraft carrier for the declaration of 'mission accomplished' in Iraq."

Seems pretty clear to me. He meant that when he walked under the big banner saying "Mission Accomplished" it meant "Mission Accomplished" for those specific Naval officers, who, you know, want to give themselves a big pat on the back and say "Hey, we're done and out of here."

Neat.

[mr. natural]

I don't know. If I was among them guys I would of been pretty pissed off for being held up for several hours off-shore.

I mean, my "mission accomplished" wouldn't of occured 'til I had spent my first night home in my lover's snatch.

[Mithras]

---------------------------------------

I'm sorry, but if Karl Rove didn't want the President speaking to the nation under a sign saying "Mission Accomplished", the sign would have been gone.

I mean, he explicitly wanted the above photos:

On May 6, [Ari Fleischer] said: "The President wanted to land on it, on an aircraft that would allow him to see an aircraft landing the same way that the pilots saw an aircraft landing. He wanted to see it as realistically as possible. And that's why, once the initial decision was made to fly out on the Viking, even when a helicopter option became doable, the President decided instead he wanted to still take the Viking."

[source]

[BRussell]

I just heard on the news that the sign was, in fact, created by the White House, and not the Navy, even though Bush blamed the sailors.

[MacGorilla]

This is so odd. Is the Administration trying to change history and/or reality? Weird.

[daimoni]

.

[finboy]

Given the normal command structure on the ship, and because banners are (potentially) hazardous to folks on the ship, I really doubt that there'd be any banners if the admiral in charge of the carrier group didn't want them to be there. Regardless of whether or not he's the President with a capital P, there's still someone ELSE who's responsible for what takes place onboard. Nothing gets tacked up without permission, politics or not.

I don't think that the Bush folks get carried away with symbolism, anyway. They seem to be too busy for that. After all, look at the press secretaries they've had. Leave the symbolism to folks like Stalin, Lenin, Clinton, etc.

AND why don't they just ask who put the banner up. Someone was responsible, just find out who. Instead of innuendo.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by finboy:
I don't think that the Bush folks get carried away with symbolism, anyway. They seem to be too busy for that. After all, look at the press secretaries they've had. Leave the symbolism to folks like Stalin, Lenin, Clinton, etc.

The logic train just whistled by you without stopping. ALL politicians are supremely aware of symbolism and consciously manipulate it to their advantage.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by finboy:

I don't think that the Bush folks get carried away with symbolism, anyway. They seem to be too busy for that.

LOL - we're talking about commandeering a fighter jet and an aircraft carrier in order for the President to walk around in a jump suit and make a speech, but he "doesn't get carried away with symbolism - he's too busy." That's a good one.

I'm not condemning him for it - it's what Presidents do - I'm just amused that anyone would make such a statement.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by zigzag:
LOL - we're talking about commandeering a fighter jet and an aircraft carrier in order for the President to walk around in a jump suit and make a speech, but he "doesn't get carried away with symbolism - he's too busy." That's a good one.

I'm not condemning him for it - it's what Presidents do - I'm just amused that anyone would make such a statement.

I think being an apologist becomes such a reflex that they do it for completely unnecessary things.
OF COURSE Bush administration orchestrated the banner and the jumpsuit and the photo op, but its not a horrible thing and I said so at the time. What's odd is his backpedaling from the obvious and bush apologists here doing the same.

Its no big deal, so what if the banner said "mission accomplished"? it was presumptious but not maliciously so.

[BlackGriffen]

And the stuffing! Don't forget the stuffing!

Bush should be impeached for lying about the size of his manhood to the nation.



BlackGriffen

[mr. natural]

Not only did the "logic train" whistle right on by finboy, but the whole damn REALITY train!

Whooosh!

George W. Bush's ''Top Gun'' landing on the deck of the carrier Abraham Lincoln will be remembered as one of the most audacious moments of presidential theater in American history. But it was only the latest example of how the Bush administration, going far beyond the foundations in stagecraft set by the Reagan White House, is using the powers of television and technology to promote a presidency like never before.

Officials of past Democratic and Republican administrations marvel at how the White House does not seem to miss an opportunity to showcase Mr. Bush in dramatic and perfectly lighted settings. It is all by design: the White House has stocked its communications operation with people from network television who have expertise in lighting, camera angles and the importance of backdrops.

On Tuesday, at a speech promoting his economic plan in Indianapolis, White House aides went so far as to ask people in the crowd behind Mr. Bush to take off their ties, WISH-TV in Indianapolis reported, so they would look more like the ordinary folk the president said would benefit from his tax cut.

''They understand the visual as well as anybody ever has,'' said Michael K. Deaver, Ronald Reagan's chief image maker. ''They watched what we did, they watched the mistakes of Bush I, they watched how Clinton kind of stumbled into it, and they've taken it to an art form.''

The White House efforts have been ambitious -- and costly. For the prime-time television address that Mr. Bush delivered to the nation on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, the White House rented three barges of giant Musco lights, the kind used to illuminate sports stadiums and rock concerts, sent them across New York Harbor, tethered them in the water around the base of the Statue of Liberty and then blasted them upward to illuminate all 305 feet of America's symbol of freedom. It was the ultimate patriotic backdrop for Mr. Bush, who spoke from Ellis Island.

For a speech that Mr. Bush delivered last summer at Mount Rushmore, the White House positioned the best platform for television crews off to one side, not head on as other White Houses have done, so that the cameras caught Mr. Bush in profile, his face perfectly aligned with the four presidents carved in stone.

And on Monday, for remarks the president made promoting his tax cut plan near Albuquerque, the White House unfurled a backdrop that proclaimed its message of the day, ''Helping Small Business,'' over and over. The type was too small to be read by most in the audience, but just the right size for television viewers at home.

''I don't know who does it,'' Mr. Deaver said, ''but somebody's got a good eye over there.''

That somebody, White House officials and television executives say, is in fact three or four people. First among equals is Scott Sforza, a former ABC producer who was hired by the Bush campaign in Austin, Tex., and who now works for Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director. Mr. Sforza created the White House ''message of the day'' backdrops and helped design the $250,000 set at the United States Central Command forward headquarters in Doha, Qatar, during the Iraq war.

Mr. Sforza works closely with Bob DeServi, a former NBC cameraman whom the Bush White House hired after seeing his work in the 2000 campaign. Mr. DeServi, whose title is associate director of communications for production, is considered a master at lighting. ''You want it, I'll heat it up and make a picture,'' he said early this week. Mr. DeServi helped produce one of Mr. Bush's largest events, a speech to a crowd in Revolution Square in Bucharest last November.

To stage the event, Mr. DeServi went so far as to rent Musco lights in Britain, which were then shipped across the English Channel and driven across Europe to Romania, where they lighted Mr. Bush and the giant stage across from the country's former Communist headquarters.

A third crucial player is Greg Jenkins, a former Fox News television producer in Washington who is now the director of presidential advance. Mr. Jenkins manages the small army of staff members and volunteers who move days ahead of Mr. Bush and his entourage to set up the staging of all White House events.

''We pay particular attention to not only what the president says but what the American people see,'' Mr. Bartlett said. ''Americans are leading busy lives, and sometimes they don't have the opportunity to read a story or listen to an entire broadcast. But if they can have an instant understanding of what the president is talking about by seeing 60 seconds of television, you accomplish your goals as communicators. So we take it seriously.''

Boy, do they ever!

As to Bush's involvement in these theatrics, well...

The most elaborate -- and criticized -- White House event so far was Mr. Bush's speech aboard the Abraham Lincoln announcing the end of major combat in Iraq. White House officials say that a variety of people, including the president, came up with the idea, and that Mr. Sforza embedded himself on the carrier to make preparations days before Mr. Bush's landing in a flight suit and his early evening speech.

Media strategists noted afterward that Mr. Sforza and his aides had choreographed every aspect of the event, even down to the members of the Lincoln crew arrayed in coordinated shirt colors over Mr. Bush's right shoulder and the ''Mission Accomplished'' banner placed to perfectly capture the president and the celebratory two words in a single shot. The speech was specifically timed for what image makers call ''magic hour light,'' which cast a golden glow on Mr. Bush.

''If you looked at the TV picture, you saw there was flattering light on his left cheek and slight shadowing on his right,'' Mr. King said. ''It looked great.''

Whooosh!

Awww, finboy, you blinked!

Clickety, Clack, clickety, clack...

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by petehammer:
Seems pretty clear to me. He meant that when he walked under the big banner saying "Mission Accomplished" it meant "Mission Accomplished" for those specific Naval officers, who, you know, want to give themselves a big pat on the back and say "Hey, we're done and out of here."

I always thought that "Mission Accomplished" referred to the ouster of Saddam's regime. After all, that was the mission.

[tie]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
I always thought that "Mission Accomplished" referred to the ouster of Saddam's regime. After all, that was the mission.

Well if the mission's over we should be able to leave. Iraq should be secure and free, under democratic self-rule, and financially self-sufficient. We should have secured Iraq's WMDs, including all pieces of its advanced nuclear program. American soldiers should not be dying in Iraq.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by tie:
Well if the mission's over we should be able to leave.

The mission to remove Saddam from power is over. Reconstruction, like in every other reconstruction operation that's occured (home or abroad) over the last 150 years, takes a while.

And why the rush to pack up our troops and leave Iraq? Why isn't/wasn't the same troop-removal timeline demanded of Kosovo and Bosnia?

[Powerbook]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
The mission to remove Saddam from power is over. Reconstruction, like in every other reconstruction operation that's occured (home or abroad) over the last 150 years, takes a while.

Forgive a stupid old European, but, but... wasn't the mission finding, securing & destroying all those "weppern's of mar's destructien and nookular program's" ? "North and East and [etc.] of Bagdad?"

Originally posted by spacefreak:

And why the rush to pack up our troops and leave Iraq? Why isn't/wasn't the same troop-removal timeline demanded of Kosovo and Bosnia?

Regarding the AMERICAN part of the troops, IT IS. Check your facts. And don't play dumb.

PB.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Powerbook:
And don't play dumb.

I don't think it's deliberate "playing".

[gadster]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
The mission to remove Saddam from power is over. Reconstruction, like in every other reconstruction operation that's occured (home or abroad) over the last 150 years, takes a while.

And why the rush to pack up our troops and leave Iraq? Why isn't/wasn't the same troop-removal timeline demanded of Kosovo and Bosnia?

Saddam is still IN power in Iraq, therefore, mission not over. If he isn't in power, then who is?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by gadster:
If he isn't in power, then who is?

That, I think, is a very good question.

Because I don't think "Saddam Hussein" is the answer.

-s*

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
That, I think, is a very good question.

Because I don't think "Saddam Hussein" is the answer.

-s*

Hard to tell who is in power there. In theory, its the Caolition Provisional Authorityt but reality seems to be twisted and skewed there.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by gadster:
Saddam is still IN power in Iraq, therefore, mission not over. If he isn't in power, then who is?

not who...it. Chaos.

[Zimphire]

Hardly Chaos. It's a little mixed up here and there, but it was to be expected.

But not chaos. And the sky is not falling.

[petehammer]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
The mission to remove Saddam from power is over.

Exactly. Mission Accomplished. We killed him and that was what the war was all about. Removing Saddam from power. All you libs can say it was about WMDs, saving the Iraqi people, or any other nonsense. Mission Accomplished, damn straight!

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Hardly Chaos. It's a little mixed up here and there, but it was to be expected.

But not chaos. And the sky is not falling.

neither are they dancing in the streets.

Things are blowing up. Americans and Iraqis are dying...or haven't you noticed?

I find it hilarious that YOU say "it was to be expected"....that's ironic.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by petehammer:
Exactly. Mission Accomplished. We killed him and that was what the war was all about. Removing Saddam from power. All you libs can say it was about WMDs, saving the Iraqi people, or any other nonsense. Mission Accomplished, damn straight!

Now.

The administration claims Saddam is still alive and orchestrating attacks. What mysterious news sources do you have access to that claim otherwise?

Oh, and for the record: It was BUSH who said it was about WMDs. The liberals were the ones shouting that it WASN'T.

Voters with memory leaks are wonderful things for politicians.

Run along now.

-s*

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
neither are they dancing in the streets.

Things are blowing up. Americans and Iraqis are dying...or haven't you noticed?

Yes, and then there are people that are glad we came, and are glad this is happening. But no one reports about that. Because that isn't news. And these that are glad are the majority. You know, the ones that WERE dancing in the streets.

The ones that didn't want this to happen are just louder.

I find it hilarious that YOU say "it was to be expected"....that's ironic.

They didn't expect full compliance. Mr Negative

[petehammer]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Now.

The administration claims Saddam is still alive and orchestrating attacks. What mysterious news sources do you have access to that claim otherwise?

Oh, and for the record: It was BUSH who said it was about WMDs. The liberals were the ones shouting that it WASN'T.

Voters with memory leaks are wonderful things for politicians.

Run along now.

-s*

Dude, do you not watch Fox News? We killed him and osama. Mission Accomplished. And no, it was liberals who have twisted speeches by Bush to make it SOUND like he said Saddam had WMDs. Liberals: they are the cause of all problems.

Believe. Believe. Believe.

Oh, and I'm being sarcastic.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by petehammer:
Oh, and I'm being sarcastic.

Oh, sorry.

I suspected, but you can't be too careful around these parts, nowadays.

-s*

[Mister Elf]

Originally posted by mr. natural:
I don't know. If I was among them guys I would of been pretty pissed off for being held up for several hours off-shore.

I mean, my "mission accomplished" wouldn't of occured 'til I had spent my first night home in my lover's snatch.

I wouldn't have been pissed, I would have done a lot to be off the Ashland and on the Lincoln then...

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Powerbook:
Regarding the AMERICAN part of the troops, IT IS. Check your facts. And don't play dumb.

Let's see who had there facts stright. Are there not thousands of US troops still in Bosnia and Kosovo?

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Powerbook:
Forgive a stupid old European, but, but... wasn't the mission finding, securing & destroying all those "weppern's of mar's destructien and nookular program's" ? "North and East and [etc.] of Bagdad?"

Destroying WMDs and providing prrof of their destruction was Saddam's responsibility as per UN resolution 1441. The other 17 resolutions over the past decade also forbade Saddam from continuing in any way research and development of weapons systems, including WMDs. But it was the removal of Saddam from power that was the military objective.

Bush on January 28, 2003:

And tonight I have a message for the brave and oppressed people of Iraq: Your enemy is not surrounding your country -- your enemy is ruling your country. And the day he and his regime are removed from power will be the day of your liberation.

Bush on March 17, 2003:

Saddam Hussein and his sons must leave Iraq within 48 hours. Their refusal to do so will result in military conflict, commenced at a time of our choosing.

Many Iraqis can hear me tonight in a translated radio broadcast, and I have a message for them. If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you. As our coalition takes away their power, we will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free. In a free Iraq, there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms. The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near.

[Spliffdaddy]

update:

The president told reporters the sign was put up by the Navy, not the White House.

"I know it was attributed somehow to some ingenious advance man from my staff -- they weren't that ingenious, by the way," the president said Tuesday.



http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/....accomplished/

Reckon Dubya just smacked down a couple of liberals in this thread.

[RooneyX]

Mission Accomplished, ya.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
The mission to remove Saddam from power is over.

Nah, you have to remove him from his safe residence in Switzerland where he shares the jacuzzi with Osama over strawberries, champagne and cigars.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
update:

The president told reporters the sign was put up by the Navy, not the White House.

Navy asked for it. The White House made it. If they were concerned about sending the messgae they could've said no.

[tie]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
update:
...
Reckon Dubya just smacked down a couple of liberals in this thread.

How is this an update? The very first post in this thread gave the same exact quote (albeit with incorrect punctuation).

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
update:

The president told reporters the sign was put up by the Navy, not the White House.

"I know it was attributed somehow to some ingenious advance man from my staff -- they weren't that ingenious, by the way," the president said Tuesday.



http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/....accomplished/

Reckon Dubya just smacked down a couple of liberals in this thread.

unless, of course, he's lying. No precedent for that, right?

[petehammer]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
update:

The president told reporters the sign was put up by the Navy, not the White House.

Again, not an update, in the original story.

And who do you think put it up, Bush himself. Of course Naval officers "put it up." The fact that the White House made it is upsetting.

[Face Ache]

White House site prevents Iraq material being archived.

By Sam Varghese
October 28, 2003

The White House website effectively prevents search engines indexing and archiving material on the site related to Iraq.

The directories on a site which can be searched by the bots sent out by search engines can be limited by means of a file called robots.txt, which resides in the root directory of a site.

Adding a directory to robots.txt ensures that nothing in that folder will ever show up in a search and will never be archived by search sites.

The White House's robots.txt file lists a huge number of directories all related to Iraq.

The Democrat National Committee blog claims a change in the robots.txt file took place sometime between April and October this year.

Earlier this year, the White House changed pages on its website which claimed that "combat" was over in Iraq; these pages were changed to say "major combat."

These changes were noticed and proved by readers because Google had archived them before the changes were made.

With the new robots.txt file, any future changes will be extremely difficult to spot - and even more difficult to prove.

Mission mostly accomplished.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
unless, of course, he's lying. No precedent for that, right?

Of course! If it doesn't fit the narrow bush bashinathon he MUST be lying!

[swrate]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Of course! If it doesn't fit the narrow bush bashinathon he MUST be lying!

his heart is pure!
Mission utmostly unaccomplished

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Of course! If it doesn't fit the narrow bush bashinathon he MUST be lying!

you cannot even accept the possibility that he might be lying? Bush is the christ, the saviour, the son of the living god, pure and sinless?

be careful where you get your saviours. You never know where they've been.

[gadster]

Given that the mission was to disarm Hussein of WMDs. It appears no invasion was necessary at all. So, mission accomplished before invasion, therefore; mission accomplished before mission um . . . commissioned.

i.e.: mission not necessary or mission driven by some other agenda.

Mission driven by some other agenda.
Mission driven by some other agenda.
Mission driven by some other agenda.

Next stop; Syria. Any Bushites care to explain why Syria should cop it next, or are you all just waiting for the official party line? Go on, have a wild stab at the rationale.

Mission driven by some other agenda.

Hey, USA, bring back the democrats, please. Pretty please?

[Spliffdaddy]

The mission was to remove Saddam Hussein's regime.

Mission Accomplished.

[Mithras]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
The mission was to remove Saddam Hussein's regime.

Mission Accomplished.

http://nytimes.com/2003/10/31/politics/31INTE.html?hp

WASHINGTON, Oct. 30 — Saddam Hussein may be playing a significant role in coordinating and directing attacks by his loyalists against American forces in Iraq, senior American officials said Thursday.

The officials cited recent intelligence reports indicating that Mr. Hussein is acting as a catalyst or even a leader in the armed opposition, probably from a base of operations near Tikrit, his hometown and stronghold. A leadership role by Mr. Hussein would go far beyond anything previously acknowledged by the Bush administration, which has sought in its public remarks to portray the former Iraqi leader as being on the run and irrelevant.

(1) I'm certainly not pleased that Saddam and his cronies are inflicting terror on innocent Iraqis
(2) It looked to everyone, not just the White House, like the Iraq War had gone as smoothly as could be hoped
(3) Nonetheless it was premature for the Commander in Chief to go stomping around and banner-waving like the mission was, cough, Accomplished.

[petehammer]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
The mission was to remove Saddam Hussein's regime.

Mission Accomplished.

Really?

Gosh, I thought it had to do with the threat of WMDs.

The mission was to remove Saddam Hussein's regime? I guess you phrased it this way since we didn't actually "remove" Saddam himself (since he's still alive).

Good attempt, but the war was sold on fear, fear of being nuked or gassed at any moment.

Saddam found- no
WMDs found- no

What mission was accomplished exactly?

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by petehammer:
Really?

Gosh, I thought it had to do with the threat of WMDs.

The mission was to remove Saddam Hussein's regime? I guess you phrased it this way since we didn't actually "remove" Saddam himself (since he's still alive).

Good attempt, but the war was sold on fear, fear of being nuked or gassed at any moment.

Saddam found- no
WMDs found- no

What mission was accomplished exactly?

Maybe we should ask Bechtel and Halliburton if THEIR mission was accomplished.

[Sven G]

Originally posted by gadster:
i.e.: mission not necessary or mission driven by some other agenda.

... Which brings us back, among other things, to the roots of the US superpower militarism question - which probably won't be solved by the Democrats returning to "lead the nation", as long as the existing power structures remain as they are...

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by petehammer:
Good attempt, but the war was sold on fear, fear of being nuked or gassed at any moment.

Bush: "We must confront this threat before it becomes imminent".

What mission was accomplished exactly?

Ask the hundreds of Iraqi newspapers that have sprouted up since Saddam was removed from power.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Mithras:
(2) It looked to everyone, not just the White House, like the Iraq War had gone as smoothly as could be hoped
(3) Nonetheless it was premature for the Commander in Chief to go stomping around and banner-waving like the mission was, cough, Accomplished.

The war did go smoothly. Saddam and his regime were ousted quite quickly, and with minimal loss of US/UK lives. It is the reconstruction that is taking time (like always).