[jbartone]

Debt currently stands at around $6.93 trillion.

What happens if the US hit the National Debt ceiling, which currently stands at $7.384 trillion?

[Face Ache]

Can you go broke in a casino you own?

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by jbartone:
Debt currently stands at around $6.93 trillion.

What happens if the US hit the National Debt ceiling, which currently stands at $7.384 trillion?

Congress will raise the debt ceiling. Used to happen all the time before surpluses came along.

[DBursey]

Chronic deficits are the real problem, and, with the recent spate of tax cuts, have probably become structural in nature.

The U.S. budget deficit hit a record $374.2 billion US in fiscal 2003, more than double the $157.8 billion US deficit the country recorded in fiscal 2002. The Office of Management and Budget estimates that the 2004 budget deficit will be even higher, topping out at $500 billion US.

This page provides a breakdown of the US federal debt, more than one-fifth of which is held overseas.

I thought conservatives were supposed to be the prudent fiscal managers? Canada's ruling Liberals have presided over 9 years of balanced (or surplus) budgets and a shrinking national debt.

[chabig]

I'm surprised that Canada has had 9 years of surpluses. The US will never have consistent surpluses. No matter how much the government takes from the citizens, the politicians will always spend more. It's their nature.

[spacefreak]

Deficits are not necessarily a bad thing. Besides, we have seen in the past (during Clinton's tenure) that a massive deficit can turn into a massive surplus within a 6-month period. All it takes is some sustained economic growth to turbocharge incoming tax receipts.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Deficits are not necessarily a bad thing. Besides, we have seen in the past (during Clinton's tenure) that a massive deficit can turn into a massive surplus within a 6-month period. All it takes is some sustained economic growth to turbocharge incoming tax receipts.

Didn't the CBO project that even with rosy economic growth figures, we'd still be spending in a deficit?

In theory, you can outgrow any spending deficit, but realistically, you can only grow so much...

BlackGriffen

[Aiglos]

Originally posted by chabig:
I'm surprised that Canada has had 9 years of surpluses. The US will never have consistent surpluses. No matter how much the government takes from the citizens, the politicians will always spend more. It's their nature.

Out of curiosity, what do you find surprising?

Now if only Ontario wasn't in a 5 billion dollar debt, it would be all good.

Damned tories.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by Aiglos:
Out of curiosity, what do you find surprising?

Now if only Ontario wasn't in a 5 billion dollar debt, it would be all good.

Damned tories.

We'll trade ya! It's only a little more than three orders of magnitude difference.

BlackGriffen

[mcsjgs]

Does anyone have the figures at their disposal? About 1 trillion when Reagan took office. Reagan-Bush 41 upped debt about 4 trillion dollars over 12 years. Clinton ?? Bush 43??

[BRussell]

Here's a good source of historical debt/deficit numbers.

National Debt:

1980: 712 billion

1989: 2.2 trillion (Debt tripled under Reagan)

1993: 3.2 trillion

2000: 3.4 trillion (Debt grew by 6% under Clinton)


The better numbers are the debt as % of GDP.

1980: 26%

1989: 41%

1993: 50%

2000: 35%

[edit: these numbers refer to debt held by the public, which, I think, is a more accurate reflection of the real debt than the total debt, which includes intra-governmental debt.)

[mcsjgs]

I looked up the Treasury numbers at:

US Treasury Link

and they are pretty close. These numbers are from US budgets according to the site:

2003 (Estimate)
$5,946,792 million

2002 (Estimate)
$5,854,990 million

2001 (Estimate)
$5,768,957 million

2000 (Estimate)
$5,686,338 million

1999
$5,606,087 million

1998
$5,478,711 million

1997
$5,369,694 million

1996
$5,181,921 million

1995
$4,921,005 million

1994
$4,643,691 million

1993
$4,351,403 million

1992
$4,002,123 million

1991
$3,598,485 million

1990
$3,206,564 million

1989
$2,868,039 million

1988
$2,601,307 million

1987
$2,346,125 million

1986
$2,120,629 million

1985
$1,817,521 million

1984
$1,564,657 million

1983
$1,371,710 million

1982
$1,137,345 million

1981
$ 994,845 million

1980
$ 909,050 million

[mcsjgs]

And more numbers from the Treasury at:

Historical Debt Link

Date
Amount

09/30/2000
$5,674,178,209,886.86

09/30/1999
5,656,270,901,615.43

09/30/1998
5,526,193,008,897.62

09/30/1997
5,413,146,011,397.34

09/30/1996
5,224,810,939,135.73

09/29/1995
4,973,982,900,709.39

09/30/1994
4,692,749,910,013.32

09/30/1993
4,411,488,883,139.38

09/30/1992
4,064,620,655,521.66

09/30/1991
3,665,303,351,697.03

09/28/1990
3,233,313,451,777.25

09/29/1989
2,857,430,960,187.32

09/30/1988
2,602,337,712,041.16

09/30/1987
2,350,276,890,953.00

09/30/1986
2,125,302,616,658.42

12/31/1985
1,945,941,616,459.88

12/31/1984
1,662,966,000,000.00

12/31/1983
1,410,702,000,000.00

12/31/1982
1,197,073,000,000.00

12/31/1981
1,028,729,000,000.00

12/31/1980
930,210,000,000.00

Somehwere there has to be apples and oranges in this.

[BlackGriffen]

Somebody, somewhere was enrolled in Bush's "fuzzy math" class because none of the three posted debt numbers are the same.

Hopefully this is just a result of measuring the debt at slightly different times...

BG

[el chupacabra]

All Bushy has to do is print more money like he did with the tax cut and pay off the debt with it. This would be like sneeking a huge tax hike behind your back that would cause inflation to rise. The plus is there's no real technical tax bs behind it, its just doing an instant rebalance of the cash flow. Of course you don't want to do it too fast or the economy will crash, as your money will be worth much less.

[wang_himself]

Who gives a sh1t about the National Debt. The worlds governmental system will collapse or we will simply blow ourselves up before ANYTHING is ever done to fix that problem. The bigger issue is I can't call the settings on my harddrive master and slave anymore. F*ck you LA!