[thunderous_funker]

Published on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by the Boston Globe
Why Peace Won't Come
by James Carroll

WHY IS IT so difficult to make peace? In Northern Ireland, diehard Ian Paisley is back, once more empowered to throw up obstacles to the longed-for resolution of the Protestant-Catholic conflict. Despite overwhelming Irish readiness for reconciliation, the bitter fringe can still poison the future.

When Israeli and Palestinian private citizens demonstrate the possibility of agreement by proposing the so-called Geneva Accord, they are treated as mischief-makers by many from both sides. When hardened Israeli military figures -- a former army chief, three former heads of the security service, Air Force pilots -- label Ariel Sharon's approach as self-defeating, they are dismissed as "soft," or even denounced as traitors, as if loyalty to Israel requires devotion to the unbearable status quo. Meanwhile, Palestinians who seek accommodation with Israel are made by some among their own to fear for their lives.

In America, the difficulties of peace-making exist in a different order. At the end of the Cold War, when the enemy against which the United States had defined itself disappeared, this nation's military establishment proved unwilling or unable to change. Because the Pentagon continued to perceive a world of mortal threats, levels of investment in weapons systems -- including nuclear -- remained extraordinarily high, with the result that American military capabilities have become literally unrivaled. The simple possession of such might, when unmatched, carries with it an irresistible momentum toward use, which in large part explains why the United States now goes to war even when it is unnecessary to do so.

Iraq, of course, is showing two things that are wrong with this situation. First, the perception of threats that justify such military assumptions is rooted not in the actuality of the threat (There are no Iraqi weapons of mass destruction), but in the a priori need to vindicate those assumptions, since they consume so much treasure and are a source of so much national meaning. And second, even unparalleled military supremacy is irrelevant to winning hearts and minds -- which is always the endgame of war. The more we smash those who hate us, the more they hate us, and the more of them there are. As the nine newly dead Afghani children reveal, American firepower is what creates America's enemies.

A curtain was lifted last week on the fundamental cause of this quagmire. Clearly exposed, if only briefly, were the real reason why the Pentagon clung to Cold War thinking even after the Soviet threat was gone, as well as the root source of George W. Bush's own hair-trigger war policy. A week ago yesterday, Philip M. Condit shamefully resigned as CEO of Boeing, the giant aircraft manufacturer. In the days preceding that disgrace, Boeing had acknowledged that other senior executives had committed ethical, if not legal, violations in pursuit of a $20 billion contract with the Air Force for the construction of a new fleet of tanker aircraft. The chief financial officer and a vice president were fired, causing Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to begin his own inquiry.

But the scandal was not just Boeing's. The hugely expensive tanker project had been nursed along by, among others, Richard N. Perle, an intimate of Secretary Rumsfeld and President Bush -- and a beneficiary last year, as The New York Times reported, of a $20 million Boeing investment in the financial company he heads. Furthermore, the aircraft project had advanced with Capitol Hill support that had been secured by Boeing lobbyists and campaign contributions. In 2002, Boeing received almost $20 billion in federal contracts, while spending almost $4 million on lobbyists and almost $2 million to help friendly legislators win elections.

Critics, like Senator John McCain of Arizona, had argued that the Air Force did not need the new planes at all, but hard-pressed Boeing needed the business, and the Air Force depends on such endless rounds of gross expenditure. If there is a brand new fleet of tanker aircraft, can a brand new fleet of the bombers they service be far behind? Whether there is an actual, real-world need for any of this is simply not the question. America's global military posture is defined not by requirements of national security but by the profit-driven collusion -- capitalism's real "hidden hand" -- of contractors, Pentagon officials, politicians and pundits. The obvious waste is one outrage, but the more grievous problem is what this corruption leads to in the world. What it has led to in the broken cities of Iraq.

Why is it so difficult to make peace? In places like Northern Ireland and the Middle East, the answer is all about the passions of grief, unforgiven wounds, fears that won't yield. But in the United States, the answer is far more coarse. Not grief, hurt, or fear. Alas, the answer is money. War remains the turbine that drives America's economy -- therefore, its politics, its shallow pride.

[Lerkfish]

Perle is a neocon. The military industrial complex is trying to cash in on Iraq.

I have stated this over and over to deaf ears but the fact is I'm correct, over and over.

The neocon agenda is real.

[lil'babykitten]

Why is it so difficult to make peace? In places like Northern Ireland and the Middle East, the answer is all about the passions of grief, unforgiven wounds, fears that won't yield. But in the United States, the answer is far more coarse. Not grief, hurt, or fear. Alas, the answer is money. War remains the turbine that drives America's economy -- therefore, its politics, its shallow pride.

He is spot on.

[gadster]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
Perle is a neocon. The military industrial complex is trying to cash in on Iraq.

I have stated this over and over to deaf ears but the fact is I'm correct, over and over.

The neocon agenda is real.

Spot on, as per usual, Lerk. Some of us get it now. The rest will get it at a later date. Same as it ever was.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by gadster:
Spot on, as per usual, Lerk. Some of us get it now. The rest will get it at a later date. Same as it ever was.

I often wonder if some have a logic deficit which prevents them from seeing what is patently obvious to me. I think they must get blinded by and suckered in by PR spin and rhetoric and forget to keep their eyes on the ball.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
I often wonder if some have a logic deficit which prevents them from seeing what is patently obvious to me. I think they must get blinded by and suckered in by PR spin and rhetoric and forget to keep their eyes on the ball.

Logically challenged. Many are, and think they are not.

Some people are just smarter than others.

[gadster]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
I often wonder if some have a logic deficit which prevents them from seeing what is patently obvious to me. I think they must get blinded by and suckered in by PR spin and rhetoric and forget to keep their eyes on the ball.

Well for many, loyalty overrides logic. Loyalty is the key concept there. Loyalty to whom, or what? Tradition? What's traditional now-a-days?

It can be lonely and unprofitable thinking for yourself, gosh-tarnit.

But at least you get the courage of your convictions, eh? And you still get to vote for one of the pigs!

How progressive is that? It's like a voters paradise.

[saab95]

The REAL key to peace is GLOBAL FREE TRADE.

As long as there is protectionism among free and totalitarian states there will be the seeds of war.

The article is long on verbage and short on real solutions.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by saab95:
The REAL key to peace is GLOBAL FREE TRADE.

As long as there is protectionism among free and totalitarian states there will be the seeds of war.

The article is long on verbage and short on real solutions.

That's only a small part.

There is also a monopoly of hatred between groups.

Western world hates Arab world... wants to exterminate it.

Vice versa.

on smaller scale you see this in every conflict.

Trade is a small part in a few conflicts. It's a mere tool in the hate campaign. A way of expressing it in economic terms.

Until the world actually outlaws hatred based on religion/culture/race/etc.. it will continue. Sadly no international law really exists that says "They are ___ and we are ____" isn't an acceptable cause for war.

And that's the justification for all conflicts at this time.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by saab95:
The REAL key to peace is GLOBAL FREE TRADE.

I've yet to see how any formulation of "free trade" doesn't simply result in a race to the bottom in wages, labor statndards and environmental protections.

I strongly support protectionism in the form of wage, safety, and pollution regulations that are strictly enforced.

[ebuddy]

I would be led to believe by this communist, anti-war activists' article that greed is exclusive to America. I guess you're right, my blind loyalty does mandate that I not believe my nation is the only one hell-bent on takeover. I can submit much reading to the contrary. A dominant portion of his article was critical of American policy and even suggests that we use weaponry by virtue of "seeing if and how it will work". The plain truth is there are mortal threats abroad and our Pentagon is wise in assuming such. In fact, many argue that if we hadn't shown our military clout, we would not exist as we do today. I firmly believe if the USA were not a super-power, we would've been gobbled up by now. Naturally, those that would love to see us become entirely complacent and allow attacks on our nation to expedite our demise would be critical of our posturing. Seeing the world through Carroll's specs, I can see why he'd like to witness our demise.

I guess I don't understand why no one can see the progress in Iraq. Do any of you have friends in the military fighting in Iraq? Have you not read any of the letters sent home about what they are accomplishing? I don't expect you to believe Rumsfield, but what about the people that are living and working there?

There are two sides to every story. Some will only see one side. (i.e. James Carroll) and others will see the other side. There's no need to assume others need to "get it". There are a great many who wonder why you won't get it. This is an elitist mentality. I find that often times it primarily boils down to who is initiating the incident. If a Republican doctor were to allow one man to die in order to save 50 others; you'd be hyper-critical of his actions. You would question his motives. You would accuse him of trying to be a hero. If a Democratic Doctor did the same, it seems to me you'd applaud his efforts. This is blind loyalty. Much of why we're viewed as we are is our actions in Yugoslavia. An action we did not seek UN approval for. An action we did not seek Congress' approval for. This frankly scared a great many in the International Community yet I did not hear the magnitude of squeeking wheels I hear now. Clinton, Albright, Clark and many more have been convicted of International crimes and are wanted people. Unfortunately, every single person in the world is proned to evil. That's the truth. Every man in power is motivated by money. This is why it would take nothing less than an act of God for the meek to inherit the earth. Peace cannot be done because we live in a world of kill or be killed. Much like the animal kingdom in many respects. 'Tis unfortunate, but true. Territory and personal gain will always outweigh schleps like you and me. Knowing this, you have decisions to make. You can pretend the motives of others are just and watch as they bring you down or you can act swiftly and prolong your existence. We've chosen the latter in this case (and a little late mind you, we took a lot of flack when Bush Sr. did not finish the task and I often agree) and most in this country still support that action. I appreciate your views however, and realize there is much corruption involved in the task. There was corruption before we entered the task, there is corruption now during the task, and there will be more corruption in the future. None of this surprises me.

In short, Human nature is corrupt. As humans we are faced with the sickening task of selecting the lesser of two evils. Sure, we can chose to ignore the drafting of policies and not avail ourselves of the political process, but we are only expediting our own demise in doing so.

In summary; I guess you can call humans Neocons, industrial military complex whackos, etc...Just know that a great many believe others to be at the opposite end of the spectrum and it's not any more pleasant to look at nor is thier "ideal world".

[The Ayatollah]

Why peace won't come :

'Only the dead have seen the end of war.'

[voodoo]

Originally posted by The Ayatollah:
Why peace won't come :

'Only the dead have seen the end of war.'

When will you see the end of war?

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
I would be led to believe by this communist, anti-war activists' article that greed is exclusive to America. I guess you're right, my blind loyalty does mandate that I not believe my nation is the only one hell-bent on takeover. I can submit much reading to the contrary. A dominant portion of his article was critical of American policy and even suggests that we use weaponry by virtue of "seeing if and how it will work". The plain truth is there are mortal threats abroad and our Pentagon is wise in assuming such. In fact, many argue that if we hadn't shown our military clout, we would not exist as we do today. I firmly believe if the USA were not a super-power, we would've been gobbled up by now. Naturally, those that would love to see us become entirely complacent and allow attacks on our nation to expedite our demise would be critical of our posturing. Seeing the world through Carroll's specs, I can see why he'd like to witness our demise.

I guess I don't understand why no one can see the progress in Iraq. Do any of you have friends in the military fighting in Iraq? Have you not read any of the letters sent home about what they are accomplishing? I don't expect you to believe Rumsfield, but what about the people that are living and working there?

There are two sides to every story. Some will only see one side. (i.e. James Carroll) and others will see the other side. There's no need to assume others need to "get it". There are a great many who wonder why you won't get it. This is an elitist mentality. I find that often times it primarily boils down to who is initiating the incident. If a Republican doctor were to allow one man to die in order to save 50 others; you'd be hyper-critical of his actions. You would question his motives. You would accuse him of trying to be a hero. If a Democratic Doctor did the same, it seems to me you'd applaud his efforts. This is blind loyalty. Much of why we're viewed as we are is our actions in Yugoslavia. An action we did not seek UN approval for. An action we did not seek Congress' approval for. This frankly scared a great many in the International Community yet I did not hear the magnitude of squeeking wheels I hear now. Clinton, Albright, Clark and many more have been convicted of International crimes and are wanted people. Unfortunately, every single person in the world is proned to evil. That's the truth. Every man in power is motivated by money. This is why it would take nothing less than an act of God for the meek to inherit the earth. Peace cannot be done because we live in a world of kill or be killed. Much like the animal kingdom in many respects. 'Tis unfortunate, but true. Territory and personal gain will always outweigh schleps like you and me. Knowing this, you have decisions to make. You can pretend the motives of others are just and watch as they bring you down or you can act swiftly and prolong your existence. We've chosen the latter in this case (and a little late mind you, we took a lot of flack when Bush Sr. did not finish the task and I often agree) and most in this country still support that action. I appreciate your views however, and realize there is much corruption involved in the task. There was corruption before we entered the task, there is corruption now during the task, and there will be more corruption in the future. None of this surprises me.

In short, Human nature is corrupt. As humans we are faced with the sickening task of selecting the lesser of two evils. Sure, we can chose to ignore the drafting of policies and not avail ourselves of the political process, but we are only expediting our own demise in doing so.

In summary; I guess you can call humans Neocons, industrial military complex whackos, etc...Just know that a great many believe others to be at the opposite end of the spectrum and it's not any more pleasant to look at nor is thier "ideal world".

I consider your view of human nature to be both ugly and primitive.

I find myself wondering if the world is doomed only as long as we continue to allow people with such inhuman and apocalyptic sensibilities as yours to remain in charge.

[gadster]

OK, lets break this down. Instead of my usual angle-grinder approach, I'm gonna do you over with the orbital sander.

Originally posted by ebuddy:
I would be led to believe by this communist, slur anti-war activists' what is wrong with being anti war? War is the lowest form of human behavior, it is a primitive, demeaning admission of failure article that greed is exclusive to America.

I guess you're right, my blind loyalty you said it does mandate mandate?, Your opinion is not a mandate that I not believe my nation is the only one hell-bent on takeover. Take over of what? wtf confused: I can submit much reading to the contrary. I'll see your reading and up you my reading A dominant portion of his article was critical of American policy Heavens, no! and even suggests that we use weaponry by virtue of "seeing if and how it will work". How do you field-test weapons systems then? The plain truth is there are mortal threats abroad You gotta ask yourself, why? and our Pentagon is wise in assuming such So it's an assumption? Try telling that to all the parents around the world whose children you have murdered over the last few decades.

In fact, many argue that if we hadn't shown our military clout, we would not exist as we do today. Just because 'many would argue' does not mean ****. Many would argue all sorts of crap. I firmly believe if the USA were not a super-power, we would've been gobbled up by now. Yeah. I can see it now, Saddam Hussein in the Whitehouse. You are laughable. Naturally, Narurally? those that would love to see us become entirely complacent and allow attacks on our nation to expedite our demise would be critical of our posturing. now that's just paranoid Seeing the world through Carroll's specs, I can see why he'd like to witness our demise. Many would argue ...

I guess I don't understand why no one can see the progress in Iraq. Do any of you have friends in the military fighting in Iraq? Have you not read any of the letters sent home about what they are accomplishing? I don't expect you to believe Rumsfield, but what about the people that are living and working and dying there?

There are two sides to every story. Some will only see one side. (i.e. James Carroll) and others will see the other side. ie: you it". Well there is, in fact. If the house is burning down, people need to 'get it'. Unless of course, you are the arsonist There are a great many who wonder why you won't won't? That's a curious choice of word. get it. This is an elitist mentality. What is elitist? That some 'won't' get it?

[B]I find that often times it primarily boils down to who is initiating the incident. If a Republican doctor [ /B] Hellooooo?? wtf is a Republican doctor? "I'm sorry nurse, I can't remove this patient's kidney. Nurse: Why not doctor? Doc: I'm afraid it's a Democrat kidney. were to allow one man to die in order to save 50 others; you'd be hyper-critical of his actions. You would who the **** are you referring to a 'you' here. buttmunch? question his motives. You would accuse him of trying to be a hero. If a Democratic Doctor did the same, it seems to me you'd applaud his efforts. This is blind loyalty. Much of why we're viewed as we are is our actions in Yugoslavia. care to elaborate on that point? Are you acknowledging there is a perception problem? And trying to slate it home to the Democrats? Look pal, there is a list a mile long of misguided US foreign policy misadventures, and Yugoslavia is but a footnote. Arming Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden were just a couple of highlights. Want me to go on?. An action we did not seek UN approval for. An action we did not seek Congress' approval for. This frankly scared a great many in the International Community yet I did not hear the magnitude of squeeking wheels I hear now. I guess it didn't scare that many people after all, then, dimwit. Clinton, Albright, Clark and many more have been convicted of International crimes and are wanted people. Unfortunately, every single person in the world is proned to evil. Speak for yourself there, pal That's the truth. Every man in power is motivated by money. Yeah, like Ghandi, and Mandela - you wouldn't know recognise leader if one came up and bit you on the arse. and This is why it would take nothing less than an act of God for the meek to inherit the earth. So you don't believe in God? Peace cannot be done because we live in a world of kill or be killed. Much like the animal kingdom in many respects. 'Tis unfortunate, but true. Territory and personal gain will always outweigh schleps like you and me. Did you get bullied at school or something? Knowing this, you have decisions to make. You can pretend the motives of others are just Hey pal, by your own twisted relationship to the community - to me, you are an 'other' - why should I trust you? Or believe your actions are just? Can you see the problem here? A downward spiral of hate. That's something that can be avoided, if we act in good faith and trust each other. and watch as they bring you down or you can act swiftly and prolong your existence. We've chosen the latter in this case (and a little late mind you, we who is 'we' here? hmmn? Are you paid to post this crap? took a lot of flack when Bush Sr. did not finish the task and I often agree) and most in this country still support that action. I appreciate your views however, and realize there is much corruption involved in the task. There was corruption before we entered the task, there is corruption now during the task, and there will be more corruption in the future. None of this surprises me. Or bothers you, it seems.

In short, Human nature is corrupt. crap, speak for yourself As humans we are faced with the sickening task of selecting the lesser of two evils. crap, speak for yourself Sure, we can chose to ignore the drafting of policies and not avail ourselves of the political process, but we are only expediting our own demise in doing so.

In summary; I guess you can call humans Neocons, industrial military complex whackos, etc...Just know that a great many believe others to be at the opposite end of the spectrum and it's not any more pleasant to look at nor is thier "ideal world".
:

Well what a steaming pile of excreta that was. You have done yourself proud. Do you get paid for this?