[macvillage.net]

http://www.bushin30seconds.org/

IN MY COUNTRY, is just brutally honest.

And who can't relate to "DESKTOP"?

Joy to the mac. and it's all available in quicktime!

[spacefreak]

Where are the (2) "Bush is Hitler" videos that were previously distributed on their site, but did not make the final 15? They were still available as late as Sunday, but now they are gone.

[nate_02]

[kvm_mkdb]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Where are the (2) "Bush is Hitler" videos that were previously distributed on their site, but did not make the final 15? They were still available as late as Sunday, but now they are gone.

They didn't make it into the final 15...

My vote is for "WHAT ARE WE TEACHING OUR CHILDREN?"

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Where are the (2) "Bush is Hitler" videos that were previously distributed on their site, but did not make the final 15? They were still available as late as Sunday, but now they are gone.

Because, duh, the RNC requested that they remove them?

The RNC is distributing them, now.

The only reason the RNC is complaining about it is to smear a 527 that has deep pockets before it can air further anti-Bush ads.

BlackGriffen

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
The only reason the RNC is complaining about it is to smear a 527 that has deep pockets before it can air further anti-Bush ads.

And these complaints by the Anti-Defamation Leaque and the Simon Wiesenthal Center, are they complaining for the same reasons?

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
And these complaints by the Anti-Defamation Leaque and the Simon Wiesenthal Center, are they complaining for the same reasons?

Considering that there were 2 or 3 wingnut entries out of 1500 or so, yes.

BlackGriffen

Edit: thought I should clarify that the ads weren't made by MoveOn.org, and were never actually aired.

[Nonsuch]

The Hitler comparisons keep coming. Seems it isn't a vice confined to the left.

[MathewM]

I'll give the filmmakers credit: most of those short films are extremely well produced which makes me wonder if there wasn't private funding. Regardless Moveon is a heavily biased, partisian group. Never mind that over half of the democratic canidates voted for the resolution to go to war with Iraq. Never mind that there were the beginnings of a recession during the Clinton presidency. Never mind that Osama bin Laden was the ring leader behind the 9/11 attack. Never mind that Saddam Hussein continued to disobey the UN. Never mind that the UN had proof of Iraq's WMD program. Never mind that Saddam Hussein had linkings to Palestinian terrorist groups. Never mind that Saddam Hussein racked up Humanitarian violations that ranked him up there with Hitler and Stalin. I could go on but I'll now let the pinkos now have their say. Never mind that the Patriot Act will not negatively effect 99.9% of the population of the U.S. regardless of nationality.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by MathewM:
...

You're dead boy, aren't you?

BG

[MathewM]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
You're dead boy, aren't you?

BG

No Peechee, I'm quite alive.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by MathewM:
I'll give the filmmakers credit: most of those short films are extremely well produced which makes me wonder if there wasn't private funding.

Perhaps they got another handout from George Soros.

On Monday, he (Soros) and a partner committed up to $5 million to MoveOn.org, a liberal activist group, bringing to $15.5 million the total of his personal contributions to oust Bush.

[MathewM]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Considering that there were 2 or 3 wingnut entries out of 1500 or so, yes.

BlackGriffen

Edit: thought I should clarify that the ads weren't made by MoveOn.org, and were never actually aired.

The link says they were. Which is it?

[MathewM]

Soros sounds like a depressed man who has decidedly lost his ability to reason. If he is such a humanitarian he would donate his money to charities bent on helping. Instead he's frivolously wasting it on a vendetta. Interestingly he also supports Gephardt and Kerry, two men who support the war in Iraq. Typical hypocritical liberal. I'd like to hear what he thinks of a man like Castro or Stalin.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by MathewM:
The link says they were. Which is it?

Which link, pray tell? Movon.org posted them on their site for public evaluation, yes, but did not actually air them.

BlackGriffen

[MathewM]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Which link, pray tell? Movon.org posted them on their site for public evaluation, yes, but did not actually air them.

BlackGriffen

What's the difference between airing and evaluating? They were available for viewing were they not?

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by MathewM:
What's the difference between airing and evaluating? They were available for viewing were they not?

Simple: in one instance, the spots are actively placed before people. In the other instance, people have to dig in to the web site and actively seek the videos out.

As I said before, though, MoveOn.org removed them as soon as attention was called to the tastelessness and possible legal issues of their content, so it's a moot point, IMHO, except that the right wingnuts have taken over showing them to everybody.

Just yet another example of the shrill whininess of Republicans.

BlackGriffen

[MathewM]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:

BlackGriffen

So what's the difference between having them up for evaluation and secretly hiding them on their website?

That's like the KKK having a website and if you dig deep enough you'll find scanned images of lynchings.

[MathewM]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:

Just yet another example of the shrill whininess of Republicans.

BlackGriffen

Uh,

Actually it was in the disgust from the Anti-Defamation league.

[MathewM]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:

Joy to the mac. and it's all available in quicktime!

Yes, the Mac seems to be the kooks platform of choice. Bill Gates is the anti-christ as we all know.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by MathewM:
So what's the difference between having them up for evaluation and secretly hiding them on their website?

That's like the KKK having a website and if you dig deep enough you'll find scanned images of lynchings.

Hah! I am neither black, nor a griffen.

If you can't tell the difference between finding parallels in the behavior of the powerful, and stomping on those who are not, then further discussion with you is meaningless.

As I said before, though, it was never distributed for public consumption, nor supported as the opinion of MoveOn.org. It was posted for evaluation, and didn't make the final 15 anyway.

BlackGriffen

[Krusty]

Wow, those really are well produced vids (guess that's why they're the final 15 though). It helps to start at the bottom and move up ... the ones near the end are more "clever" and sorta prep your for the tear-jerking, moralizing, gratuitous use of little kids nearer the top.

Going from top down I think one would probably have entrenched themselves in their "side" before they ever got to the end.

[MathewM]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Hah! I am neither black, nor a griffen.

BlackGriffen

Eh? Really I just thought that you were a cuckoo.

Yes I can see parallels but not here. Saddam was akin to Hitler. Why do you think Gulf War I happened? Saying that Bush is Hitler is a bit extreme wouldn't you say? Probably not.

Soros doesn't even know the difference and he funded the ads.

[MathewM]

Originally posted by Cuckoo:

As I said before, though, it was never distributed for public consumption, nor supported as the opinion of MoveOn.org. It was posted for evaluation, and didn't make the final 15 anyway.

Cuckoo

What's the difference? It was still there and somebody allowed them to be posted. Soros made the analogy originally and is the site's largest sponsor.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by MathewM:
Soros doesn't even know the difference and he funded the ads.

Now I get to call you genuinely stupid, instead of joking as I was in the other thread. This was a contest where people submitted ads they made themselves. Brilliant, really, because the only thing MoveOn.org needed to spend on was bandwidth (and now court fees to battle off the whiny shills on the political right).

BlackGriffen

[macvillage.net]

I'm personally a fan of what's the new "offensive" one some groups want removed: "IN MY COUNTRY"

Claiming it makes a mockery of the Anti-terrorism legistature, and makes to much of a comparison to the "axis of evil".

It's funny, cause it's true.

Personally, I like the feds monitoring my calls. I just wish they would make it all public. I'm dying to know who several people call. IMHO if some Fed employee has access to my stuff, I should have access to theirs. Tis only fair. Lets open the system. Then nobody can complain, all is open, safe, and free.

[jbartone]

MoveOn.org's response:

http://moveonvoterfund.org/smear/release.html

ADS ATTACKED BY RNC CHAIRMAN
ARE NOT MOVEON.ORG VOTER FUND ADS

MoveOn.org Voter Fund Regrets Screening Process Allowed Ads to Slip Through

The Republican National Committee and its chairman have falsely accused MoveOn.org of sponsoring ads on its website which compare President Bush to Adolf Hitler. The claim is deliberately and maliciously misleading.

...


Contrast this with the behavior of the RNC and its allies when supporters of President Bush used TV ads morphing the face of Sen. Max Cleland (D-GA) into that of Osama Bin Laden during the 2002 Senate race.

[MathewM]

Originally posted by Cuckoo:
Now I get to call you genuinely stupid, instead of joking as I was in the other thread. This was a contest where people submitted ads they made themselves. Brilliant, really, because the only thing MoveOn.org needed to spend on was bandwidth (and now court fees to battle off the whiny shills on the political right).

Cuckoo

Actually Soros is a major funder of MoveOn. He also claimed that Bush reminded him of Hitler with his "you're either with us or your with the terrorists" which actually was a slogan of the Hungarian Communist Party at the time. The guy needs a history lesson or maybe shock treatment.

Funded = paying for the bandwidth.

Most filmmakers are sad sacks who will throw their parent's money away with the faint hope of making it big (see Project Greenlight). Trust me, I was one of them.

[MathewM]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
Personally, I like the feds monitoring my calls. I just wish they would make it all public. I'm dying to know who several people call. IMHO if some Fed employee has access to my stuff, I should have access to theirs. Tis only fair. Lets open the system. Then nobody can complain, all is open, safe, and free.

The government has always had access to you. You just didn't know about it before. The Patriot Act was instituted just to make it legal.

Quit worrying, nobody cares about you anyway.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by MathewM:
The Patriot Act was instituted just to make it legal.

And the one element that the far-left crowd conveniently leaves out when misportraying the Act is that warrants are still required. The difference is that these warrants can now be applied for and obtained electronically (like via email) from judges to quicken the process.

[porieux]

If someone wants to compare Bush to Hitler that's their opinion and there's nothing wrong with it. If the shoe fits...

Personally I wouldn't give him anywhere near that much credit. GWBush is a pimple on the ass of history.

[MacGorilla]

Some of those ads are right on the mark and gutsy. They should aired everywhere.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:

As I said before, though, it was never distributed for public consumption, nor supported as the opinion of MoveOn.org.

The ad calls Bush a Hitler for overthrowing Saddam Hussein. It proves that some people can't tell a dictator from a hole in the ground.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by vmarks:
The ad calls Bush a Hitler for overthrowing Saddam Hussein. It proves that some people can't tell a dictator from a hole in the ground.

Well, wasn't the video rejected by the audience? I think, we should trust the people a bit more and their ability to think for themselves.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Well, wasn't the video rejected by the audience? I think, we should trust the people a bit more and their ability to think for themselves.

Only after we tell them what to think.*


*I work in advertising.

[MathewM]

Exactly,

I think we're seeing over on Moveon and within the Dean camp the same hysteria and myopia that they accuse the Bush/Iraq war supporters of.

Comparing Bush to Hitler is analogous to people like myself calling lefties Saddam supporters. It's incorrect however it gets the opposition rilled up while rallying the troops.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by MathewM:
The government has always had access to you. You just didn't know about it before. The Patriot Act was instituted just to make it legal.

Quit worrying, nobody cares about you anyway.

But I wouldn't mind knowing more about other people.

I don't see why it's still illegal. If someone else has access, I should to.

Besides, that would be the ultimate bordom killer. Just query the database for

Code:
select `name` where `intercourse` = 'Britney Spears'

I would have a blast. And don't tell me there's really someone who doesn't want access to the info. Everyone wants it. Only the ones with access don't want public access.

I'd even pay a subscription fee.

I could lookup who called who, who slept with who, who has some STD, whose rich, whose poor... good useful info.

[MathewM]

Actually all of that is available to you via web porn. There are plenty of Brittany look alikes out there willing to get you off for a few bucks.

Ain't capitalism great.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by MathewM:
Comparing Bush to Hitler is analogous to people like myself calling lefties Saddam supporters. It's incorrect however it gets the opposition rilled up while rallying the troops.

So, wait. Saying that they're wrong for doing it, and then doing it yourself... Why, yes, I believe that's the very definition of a hypocrite.

Congratulations on calling yourself a hypocrite. May I suggest that you change the standard you hold others to or your own behavior.

Either way.

BlackGriffen

[nredman]

Hood Robbin' or What Are We Teaching Our Children? are my favorites.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by nredman:
Hood Robbin' or What Are We Teaching Our Children? are my favorites.

I like:

• In My Country (though I don't know if it will disillusion anyone)
• He Lied, They Died
• What are We Teaching Our Children?
• Lies, the Real Weapon of Mass Destruction.
• Wake up America (sorta)
• Army of One
• Hood Robbin
• Leave no Billionaire Behind
• Bush's Repair Shop

I think that they should air all of the above, repeatedly.

BlackGriffen

[eklipse]

'In My Country'
'What are We Teaching Our Children?'
'Desktop'

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by MathewM:
Actually all of that is available to you via web porn. There are plenty of Brittany look alikes out there willing to get you off for a few bucks.

Ain't capitalism great.

Yes.

But I want to know the details of real people. Not some porn star.

Would be tons of fun. Anytime you need some revenge, just SQL their data and get some info.

Just seems like it would make the world so much more fun to live in.

It's like when Kramer put pictures and names in the lobby of the appartment on Seinfeld... and everyone knew each other. Everyone would have to be friendly. Be mean, and I post who slept with who, or who did what.

Besides, if it all went public. People would think before doing something super stupid.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
Yes.

But I want to know the details of real people. Not some porn star.

Would be tons of fun. Anytime you need some revenge, just SQL their data and get some info.

Just seems like it would make the world so much more fun to live in.

It's like when Kramer put pictures and names in the lobby of the appartment on Seinfeld... and everyone knew each other. Everyone would have to be friendly. Be mean, and I post who slept with who, or who did what.

Besides, if it all went public. People would think before doing something super stupid.

Check out the GIA

Mission


To empower citizens by providing a single, comprehensive, easy-to-use repository of information on individuals, organizations, and corporations related to the government of the United States of America.

To allow citizens to submit intelligence about government-related issues, while maintaining their anonymity. To allow members of the government a chance to participate in the process.

BlackGriffen

[MathewM]

Originally posted by Cuckoo:
So, wait. Saying that they're wrong for doing it, and then doing it yourself... Why, yes, I believe that's the very definition of a hypocrite.

Congratulations on calling yourself a hypocrite. May I suggest that you change the standard you hold others to or your own behavior.

Either way.

Cuckoo

Bingo, give the bird cracker.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
Only after we tell them what to think.*


*I work in advertising.

[chalk_outline]

Originally posted by eklipse:
'In My Country'
'What are We Teaching Our Children?'
'Desktop'

My favs too..

[BlackGriffen]

There's a great article over at Salon about the tornado in a bottle that the RNC is whipping up over this. Some choice excerpts:

In fact, as those who've followed the story know, MoveOn didn't sponsor or create, let alone televise, ads comparing Bush to Hitler. MoveOn's issue-advertising arm, the MoveOn Voter Fund, ran an innovative contest, "Bush in 30 Seconds," challenging its members to make their own political ads illustrating the shortcomings of the Bush administration in a humorous, creative way. (The contest winner will have his or her ad nationally televised by the Voter Fund.) The online advocacy group got more than 1,000 ad submissions, and posted the vast majority on its Web site. Its network of more than 2 million activists was eligible to vote to narrow the field to 15 finalists, and selected them this week; a celebrity panel will pick a winner, to be announced Jan. 12. Both Hitler ad submissions scored poorly with MoveOn supporters, and would have been consigned to history without the publicity boost from the RNC. (Now, ironically, the only place you can find them is on the RNC's Web site.)
[...]
MoveOn political director Eli Pariser quickly denied the RNC slur that the group had sponsored the ads, pointing out the facts: that they were posted to the site as part of a contest, and never received MoveOn's imprimatur. But he also said that the group "regrets the appearance" of the Hitler ads on its Web site, and promised that in the future, MoveOn would have a better process for vetting member-generated political content.
[...]
Reached at their Berkeley home Tuesday, [MoveOn.org founders and leaders] Wes Boyd and Joan Blades acknowledged they should have taken more trouble to screen their supporter-created ads for content that could be exploited by their enemies. I was surprised by their candor about their RNC-sponsored learning experience. "We had a small committee running the contest," Boyd admitted, which included Pariser and rock star Moby. "We screened mostly for legal issues" -- there are limits to what the MoveOn Voter Fund's 527 status lets the group advocate politically -- "and we referred some questionable things to our lawyers. We decided to let our members decide [on content], and actually the process mostly worked really well. The good stuff rose to the top." The Hitler ads sank.

But with hindsight, given the group's new political prominence, Boyd says, "We should probably have had a content filter in the process. It's really tough when you're dealing with political speech, but we should have had one. But that's how it works. You learn, your sensitivity grows. We expressed regret, and that is real." Boyd said he'd spent the day talking to Jewish leaders who'd been offended by the ads, explaining the group's process and personally extending his apologies. "I think they've accepted our expressions of regret."
[...]
And so MoveOn moves on. Its enemies won't, of course. That's why it's important that the group admitted it stumbled, a little, by ducking the admittedly tough task of vetting the ads for content before posting them to the site, and that it says it learned from the mistake. Of course, the RNC didn't apologize when Republicans ran ads that turned disabled veteran Sen. Max Cleland into Osama bin Laden, or Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle into Saddam Hussein. RNC chair Ed Gillespie hasn't yet demanded an apology from columnist Ralph Peters for his Monday New York Post Op-Ed comparing Howard Dean to Hitler. And he never will. Republicans smear without apology. And sadly, they mostly get away with it.

Looks like the classic m.o. of a bully - can dish it out, but can't take it.

BlackGriffen

P.S. I don't actually believe the Hitler, Napoleon, or Saddam comparisons I mentioned. I did it primarily as a mental exercise, and to show that the parallels, applicable or not, are there. I do honestly believe comparison with Ned and Jimbo. "They're coming right for us!"

[vmarks]

When you host something on your website, contest or not, forum or not, you are publishing it. By publishing it, you are sponsoring this material by giving it voice. All the protestations in the world claiming that you do not sponsor it cannot change that.

Why else do you think MacNN even has an agreement when you register for the forums?

MacNN publishes each and every one of these comments of ours, and goes to the trouble of editing and occasionally removing the worst of them because should a lawsuit ever arise, MacNN is responsible for giving voice to these comments.

Which is precisely what MoveOn did. It was on their website. They hosted it, made it publicly available, and gave it bandwidth. All their protestations otherwise cannot change that.

Had they found it something they didn't approve of, they should have removed it as quickly as possible. Instead, they allowed it to stay and participate in the contest to its end. Understand that disqualifying an entry from the contest would not be censorship, and not be an attack on free speech, but simply content that didn't represent that which MoveOn wants to support.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Looks like the classic m.o. of a bully - can dish it out, but can't take it.

Do you really think the RNC is upset that MoveOn published Bush as Hitler ads? Ha!

It's wonderful for the GOP, and they know it. This is politics. The "outrage" is completely for show. The only purpose in complaining was to draw attention to the ads. Hitler ads completely play into the RNC's hands. They are only going to convince moderates that the Democrats have completely lost their marbles. Rational people don't make Hitler analogies. At the very least, they understand that they make you look kooky.

This is unfortunate for the majority of moderate Democrats, who are rational. But that's what happens when you don't police your own ranks. America is a country that does not like shrill extremism in politics. All parties who are serious about winning elections have to be ready to distance themselves from the voices of their own irrational supporters and to make clear that in some cases, their support is not wanted. That's why Bush Sr. and the GOP was so dismissive of David Duke. The Democrats have to learn the same lesson.