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perryp · Jan 8, 2004, 05:43 AM

fake?

perryp · Jan 8, 2004, 06:02 AM

notes:
head looks too bright
head looks pasted on
strange absense of shadows
saddams mouth is bloodied
saddam looks drugged
photo originates from someone called John Weisman

davesimondotcom · Jan 8, 2004, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by perryp:
photo originates from someone called John Weisman

I won't even bother to say it...

perryp · Jan 8, 2004, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
I won't even bother to say it...

say what?

davesimondotcom · Jan 8, 2004, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by perryp:
say what?

You'll figure it out.

quandarry · Jan 8, 2004, 10:32 AM

could be real...there was reports of several troops having cameras and taking pictures.

as for the bloody mouth...maybe that was why they were concerned about his teeth so much.

and remember, no one was sure that they had captured saddam hisself for quite a while.

there is a cyber cafe in baghdad to transfer digital pictures.

perryp · Jan 8, 2004, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
You'll figure it out.

???

davesimondotcom · Jan 8, 2004, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by perryp:
???

Just noting the name of the photographer, and that it's obviously a huge conspiracy of the neocons to fake the photo...

perryp · Jan 8, 2004, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
Just noting the name of the photographer, and that it's obviously a huge conspiracy of the neocons to fake the photo...

what? please elaborate

davesimondotcom · Jan 8, 2004, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by perryp:
what? please elaborate

I was making a sarcastic comment because the name of the photographer indicates he may be Jewish...

Lerkfish · Jan 8, 2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
I was making a sarcastic comment because the name of the photographer indicates he may be Jewish...

davesimondotcom · Jan 8, 2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:

It was a joke, Lerk. Laugh a little.

perryp · Jan 8, 2004, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
I was making a sarcastic comment because the name of the photographer indicates he may be Jewish...

what does his jewishness have to do with it?

davesimondotcom · Jan 8, 2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by perryp:
what does his jewishness have to do with it?

It was a bad joke - never mind. I regret it.

lil'babykitten · Jan 8, 2004, 11:43 AM

edit: I'm laughing at how bad this joke turned out (in case there was any misunderstanding over the above smiley)

perryp · Jan 8, 2004, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
It was a bad joke - never mind. I regret it.

There's no such thing as a joke. When people try to be funny they are often trying to get across something very serious. Tell us what you REALLY think - what are you trying to say? If you've got a problem with the fact that the photographer might be jewish, tell us what it is.

davesimondotcom · Jan 8, 2004, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by perryp:
There's no such thing as a joke. When people try to be funny they are often trying to get across something very serious. Tell us what you REALLY think - what are you trying to say? If you've got a problem with the fact that the photographer might be jewish, tell us what it is.

Sometimes a joke is just that. The joke was based on conspiracy theories involving Israel/neocon agendas, etc.

It was stupid.

lil'babykitten · Jan 8, 2004, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by perryp:
There's no such thing as a joke. When people try to be funny they are often trying to get across something very serious. Tell us what you REALLY think - what are you trying to say? If you've got a problem with the fact that the photographer might be jewish, tell us what it is.

Basically, dave knows there's a few of us that really don't like the neo-cons. Many of the neo-cons are known to be Jewish and sometimes people infer that the real reason behind the dislike of the neocons is something sinister, like being anti-semitic. I believe dave was playing on that.

perryp · Jan 8, 2004, 11:54 AM

Dave: If you ever take up stand-up comedy, the amount of grief and suffering in audience would be incalculable. I've been to funnier funerals.

lil'babykitten · Jan 8, 2004, 11:57 AM

Well, that was a bit of an overreaction!

eklipse · Jan 8, 2004, 12:07 PM

Yeah....so....anyway, real or fake?

If Saddam had a bloodied mouth and was rendered unconscious, it kind of blows a hole in the 'peaceful/cooperative/cowardly surrender' story, doesn't it?

Just more propaganda?

davesimondotcom · Jan 8, 2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Basically, dave knows there's a few of us that really don't like the neo-cons. Many of the neo-cons are known to be Jewish and sometimes people infer that the real reason behind the dislike of the neocons is something sinister, like being anti-semitic. I believe dave was playing on that.

Yes, and I did it poorly. But thanks for at least one person understanding.

Your catnip bribe is on it's way.

davesimondotcom · Jan 8, 2004, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by perryp:
Dave: If you ever take up stand-up comedy, the amount of grief and suffering in audience would be incalculable. I've been to funnier funerals.

It was a poor joke, I admitted it. But I take offense to this. I hope that the majority of people on here would suggest I have a pretty good sense of humor.

That joke just sucked.

davesimondotcom · Jan 8, 2004, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by eklipse:
Yeah....so....anyway, real or fake?

If Saddam had a bloodied mouth and was rendered unconscious, it kind of blows a hole in the 'peaceful/cooperative/cowardly surrender' story, doesn't it?

Just more propaganda?

I don't see why anyone would fake this. Or where it would play into anyone's propaganda - not the US, not Saddam for sure...

finboy · Jan 8, 2004, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
there's a few of us that really don't like the neo-cons.

In fact, there are folks who throw around "neocon" as though it was an insult, like calling someone an "Anti-Semite."

vmarks · Jan 8, 2004, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
I don't see why anyone would fake this. Or where it would play into anyone's propaganda - not the US, not Saddam for sure...

something to motivate insurgents with?

chris v · Jan 8, 2004, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by perryp:
notes:

strange absense of shadows

sh*tty on-camera flash. Drives me nuts.

CV

Troll · Jan 9, 2004, 02:51 AM

I don't know enough about photography or photoshop to know if this is fake, but there is a persistent rumour that Saddam spat on one of the GI's who then punched him in the mouth. I think it was Time that noted that it would have been the first time in decades that anyone had stood up to Saddam. There were also rumours right from the start that GI's had taken photos of him.

Troll · Jan 9, 2004, 02:59 AM

Originally posted by vmarks:
something to motivate insurgents with?

Doubtful. First, it seems that Saddam sympathisers are a tiny minority of people involved in the "Insurgency." The majority wouldn't care whether he was punched in the face or not ... or if they did they'd probably have more sympathy for the Americans. Heck who DOES care?

Second, Saddam's supporters were disappointed that he didn't fire a weapon and didn't fight to the death. They considered it a betrayal. I doubt it will make a difference to them that Saddam resisted by spitting on a soldier and taking a punch in the mouth for it. In fact this photo might further humiliate Saddam.

Frankly I don't see how this photo would motivate insurgents. I don't even think it makes the Army look bad ... except that it isn't what they said happened I suppose. But no one cares about that. Even if someone gave him a gratuitous smack in the gnashers, I think for once the US Army did a great job here.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2004, 05:20 AM

Is this the John Weisman who wrote Soar: A Black OPS Novel?

It's *all* conspiracy, folks!

theolein · Jan 9, 2004, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Is this the John Weisman who wrote Soar: A Black OPS Novel?

It's *all* conspiracy, folks!

"And the hero's chiseled features and muscular body only accentuated his prowess as he single handedly defeated all 4 million members of People's Liberation Army"*

*A public service announcement brought to you by the marvelous Captain Zap Brannigan, saviour of the universe.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2004, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by theolein:
"And the hero's chiseled features and muscular body only accentuated his prowess as he single handedly defeated all 4 million members of People's Liberation Army"

<Kiv>
Uuurgh...
</Kiv>

theolein · Jan 9, 2004, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
<Kiv>
Uuurgh...
</Kiv>

<Amy>
Oooohhh, Kiiiiivvvv
</Amy>

swrate · Jan 11, 2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by perryp:
fake?

strange picture
i wouldn't choose as a Happy New Year pic

anyway i am jumping in again
after a fly in to the light and sea

Happy New year,
LOL
and I am still dreaming the world can become a better place
I wonder if Rumsfeld shook his hand again?

interpellation
I was wondering, after splitting out of politics
swimming or drowning in the Red Sea
but then light changes it all

yes, the campaign threads dean, madonna, us politics
that is the "other" continent.
out or real focus.
the arab world sees the us intervention as brave, an opportunity for change, but illegal. (they always insist on that aspect)
News make the info short, brief, without real emotional involvement; out of fear and common interests with the US

tragedies happening on their own grounds.

saddam was pulled out of a hole
and hadnt been eating the right food for a while
coffee booze drugs desperation????

then the jew illusion alusion

i thought the masked man looked semitic,
persian, arabic,and not jew specifically.

visions change reality from soul to soul,
such mix of emotions
so i am glad to be flying swimming writing thinking rolling
i always get caught by all of your words,

great minds "trolling" in here

Dave Brasgalla · Jan 11, 2004, 05:07 PM

Speaking apolitically, as someone who uses photoshop on a daily basis and has retouched my fair share of photographs, I have to say that, if this is a fake, it is a damned good one. Typically, when photos are manipulated, although it may look like a smooth job at first glance, you can often detect the manipulations by doing some easy Photoshop exercises.

For instance, flesh tones can be very difficult to match, since the eye is quick to note subtle differences. Try this: take the photo into Photoshop, and go to Image>Adjustments>Hue/Saturation. Slide the Saturation slider all the way up to 100% . You'll see some pixellation, which is a result of JPEG compression. However, this will often reveal areas of manipulation. Move the HUE slider around, and note whether or not the flesh tones in the picture vary in saturation and hue. Watch the soldier's hand on Hussein's shoulder, and compare the Hue to that of the skin on Hussein's face. In this case, they are *extremely* well-matched.

Someone mentioned a "lack of shadows". In a flash shot, the light is directly from the point of view of the camera, causing many shadows to be directly behind the objects in the picture. In this case, the lighting is quite consistent. However, the appearance of a "bloody mouth" could actually be caused by this same phenomenon. The sharp shadows of the flash make the inside of the mouth more dramatic. There is also not much strong red in this picture, which could accentuate reds that do appear.

The depth of field and proportions look correct throughout.

If I was asked as an "expert witness" to judge whether or not this photo is "faked", I would have to say no. Whether or not his mouth is bloodied is debatable.

For what it's worth.