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NYCFarmboy · Jan 9, 2004, 07:12 AM

From today's NYTimes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/09/po...09CLAR.html?hp

Seeking Women's Votes, Clark Changes His Style

By EDWARD WYATT

Gen. Wesley K. Clark Gone has replaced his suit with an argyle sweater in an attempt to increase his support among women.

MacGorilla · Jan 9, 2004, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
From today's NYTimes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/09/po...09CLAR.html?hp

Seeking Women's Votes, Clark Changes His Style

By EDWARD WYATT

Gen. Wesley K. Clark Gone has replaced his suit with an argyle sweater in an attempt to increase his support among women.

I know when I wear my argyl sweater, women swarm all over me

Lerkfish · Jan 9, 2004, 08:10 AM

LOL! well, this is about as lame as when they thought Quayle's "charisma" would draw women voters.

This just leads me to the inescapable conclusion that political experts are men who are clueless.

To draw women voters you need to include their issues on your platform

gah! politics in this country is abhorrent, on all sides.

davesimondotcom · Jan 9, 2004, 09:20 AM

A sweater attracts women? How come I didn't get that memo in high school?

Seriously, this contrived crap has just about ruined the entire process... get elected on issues and leadership, not "image."

Really brings to mind the phrase "politics is Hollywood for ugly people."

MathewM · Jan 9, 2004, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
LOL! well, this is about as lame as when they thought Quayle's "charisma" would draw women voters.

This just leads me to the inescapable conclusion that political experts are men who are clueless.

To draw women voters you need to include their issues on your platform

gah! politics in this country is abhorrent, on all sides.

I don't agree. Women (especially democratic leaning) vote based on feelings, not issues.

Who can explain a womanizer like Bill Clinton's amazing popularity with the opposite sex? Same goes for Kennedy. (Not) so strangely the fact that both having extramarital affairs bolstered their respect amongst (dem) women. At the very least it did not effect it.

Sex sells even in Presidential races. Clark is considered the only honey amongst the democrates at this point (John Edwards is too effeminate). He even got Madonna's endorsement for what its worth. I'd even go as far to say that when they were manufacturing the Clark canidacy that they felt he was too good looking to be a Republican.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2004, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by MathewM:
I don't agree. Women (especially democratic leaning) vote based on feelings, not issues.

Please do us all a favor and return to the 19th century, whence you came.

-s*

zigzag · Jan 9, 2004, 10:15 AM

I hear Al Sharpton plans to out-do Clark and wear a thong at his next rally.

MathewM · Jan 9, 2004, 10:23 AM

Hey Dave your sig has got me thinking about the upcoming showdown between Bush and Dean (unless Clark pulls an upset).

Fade In: Emperor Wolfowitz's Throneroom

Dean: I know there is still good in you, I can feel it.

Bush: You are letting your feelings betray you. Give yourself to the neocons.

Dean: I will not fight you.

Emperor Wolfowitz: Pussy liberal scumbag!

Bush: If you will not fight then you will be destroyed!

Dean: I will not fight you but perhaps he will.

Dean steps back and out from the shadows emerges Darth Osama....

To be continued

MathewM · Jan 9, 2004, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Please do us all a favor and return to the 19th century, whence you came.

-s*

Pull the stick out of your ass. Otherwise quit replying to my posts.

I'm starting to think you have a thing for me.

MathewM · Jan 9, 2004, 10:31 AM

Al Sharpton's become a funny guy. I used to really hate him but since he lightened up he ain't so bad. I think him and Bob Dole should go on tour.

eklipse · Jan 9, 2004, 10:36 AM

I think MathewM is right to some extent, women do have a slightly different psychology to men and are likely to be influenced by different aspects of a candidate's appeal.

That said, I still think it's a silly move on Clark's part - a triumph of style over substance.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2004, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by MathewM:
Pull the stick out of your ass. Otherwise quit replying to my posts.

I'm starting to think you have a thing for me.

Stop posting reactionary sexist bullshit, and I'll stop calling you on it.

Consider yourself flattered that I care enough to waste time replying, if you're that desperately in need of sexual affirmation.

-s*

BRussell · Jan 9, 2004, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by MathewM:
I don't agree. Women (especially democratic leaning) vote based on feelings, not issues.

I agree with you. But I'd include men too. And Republicans. I mean, who the hell knows what those swing voters/soccer moms/nascar dads base their votes on? It sure ain't political philosophy, whatever it is.

I hear Al Sharpton plans to out-do Clark and wear a thong at his next rally.

MathewM · Jan 9, 2004, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
reactionary sexist bullshit,
-s*

Try revolutionary sexual theory.

You're not a chick by any chance are you?

Lerkfish · Jan 9, 2004, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by MathewM:
You're not a chick by any chance are you?

If spheric's a chick, you don't have a chance.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2004, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by MathewM:
Try revolutionary sexual theory.

Originally posted by MathewM:
Women (especially democratic leaning) vote based on feelings, not issues.

Ah, sorry - I failed to recognize the revolutionary brilliance of that statement for what it was.

I'm sorry, I was blinded by education.

I won't let it happen again.

Originally posted by MathewM:
You're not a chick by any chance are you?

I'll bite:

Why?

-s*

Wiskedjak · Jan 9, 2004, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
This just leads me to the inescapable conclusion that political experts are men who are clueless.

To draw women voters you need to include their issues on your platform

But, wouldn't putting on a sweater be much easier? Including the issues of the voters you want increased support from into your platform sounds too much like democracy

MathewM · Jan 9, 2004, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by BRussell:
I agree with you. But I'd include men too. And Republicans. I mean, who the hell knows what those swing voters/soccer moms/nascar dads base their votes on? It sure ain't political philosophy, whatever it is.

Nah, men (in general) are pretty good about staying on issue.

"How do you write women so well?"

"I think of a man and take away reason and accountability."

I really love women, idiosyncrasies and all.

MathewM · Jan 9, 2004, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:

Why?

-s*

Spheric Harlot?

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2004, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by MathewM:
I really love women, idiosyncrasies and all.

It's strange, though, how everytime you mention them, it sounds more like you're talking about dogs.

-s*

MathewM · Jan 9, 2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
It's strange, though, how everytime you mention them, it sounds more like you're talking about dogs.

-s*

You're not by any chance a dog are you?

Lerkfish · Jan 9, 2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
It's strange, though, how everytime you mention them, it sounds more like you're talking about dogs.

-s*

maybe he loves dogs, too.

pooka · Jan 9, 2004, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
maybe he loves dogs, too.

I love kitties.

voyageur · Jan 9, 2004, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by zigzag:
I hear Al Sharpton plans to out-do Clark and wear a thong at his next rally.

The thought!

Seriously, though, isn't what Clark is trying similar to what helped do in Al Gore in the last race? Gore consulted with Naomi Wolf and others on how to appeal to women voters, and ended up reminding too many of them of their first husbands. The alligator shirts and khakis didn't fool anyone.

The women I know do vote the issues. We discuss them whenever we get together for lunch. Maybe we tend to emphasize issues like education and the environment more than the national defense, though.

andi*pandi · Jan 9, 2004, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by pooka:
I love kitties.

we know you do.

man, that's an ugly sweater. I guess in their rush to make the General more approachable, they didn't have time to shop for something flattering or attractive.

Lil' ol me don't have any idea what you mean by issues. You mean there's issues? Aren't you just supposed to vote for the oldest white man possible, preferrably one who was born closest to where you were? Or maybe throw a dart at the board? Assuming they let you bring darts into the voting booth, which is unlikely, considering the metal detectors they have at polling places now and the ferocious dogs and the shoe search.

<la de dah de deeeeeeee>

MathewM · Jan 9, 2004, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by voyageur:

The women I know do vote the issues. We discuss them whenever we get together for lunch. Maybe we tend to emphasize issues like education and the environment more than the national defense, though.

As a woman that makes sense that you care about these things more than national defense. It's the nurturer in you.
You (probably) unfortunately see national defense the same as war mongering.

BRussell · Jan 9, 2004, 02:18 PM

Now you girls just don't worry your pretty little heads about this politics.

You know we Republicans have a majority only in one demographic - white males. Every other demographic category votes for Democrats. So you just let us white males take care of everything, because we're the only ones who think about the real issues, i.e., vote Republican.

davesimondotcom · Jan 9, 2004, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by BRussell:
Now you girls just don't worry your pretty little heads about this politics.

You know we Republicans have a majority only in one demographic - white males. Every other demographic category votes for Democrats. So you just let us white males take care of everything, because we're the only ones who think about the real issues, i.e., vote Republican.

<tongue in cheek>Now you girls just don't worry your pretty little heads about issues. Vote for the image. We'll tell you who to vote for if you don't know.

You know we Democrats have control over various vocal minorities who separately have no power, but through us have some. So you just let us white male democrats take care of everything, because we're the only ones who feel your pain, and without us you are incapable of knowing what is best for you. Deliver us votes or we'll cut you lose. We're Democrats - and no, of course we don't take you for granted. Really.

Goose, meet Gander.

</tongue in cheek>

Lerkfish · Jan 9, 2004, 02:37 PM

sheesh. Can we just all accept that these PR image consultants should all take a flying leap? ok? ok.

davesimondotcom · Jan 9, 2004, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
sheesh. Can we just all accept that these PR image consultants should all take a flying leap? ok? ok.

They would if we could get a focus group to tell them to do so.

Lerkfish · Jan 9, 2004, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
They would if we could get a focus group to tell them to do so.

tie · Jan 9, 2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by eklipse:
That said, I still think it's a silly move on Clark's part - a triumph of style over substance.

Why? Can't it be both, or neither? I don't understand all these strong negative reactions. Clark starts wearing sweaters and we call it "abhorrent"? This is what I would call "no big deal." He has also had prominent women introducing him. Good for him.

If we want candidates to focus on the issues, then as voters we should start by focusing on the issues ourselves. I don't think PR image consultants are one of the top problems for America.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2004, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by MathewM:
Spheric Harlot?

Oh, I'm sorry.

Erhm.

"Why do you ask? Is my gender somehow of importance to you? And if so, why?"

-s*

BRussell · Jan 9, 2004, 04:10 PM

You know, if you actually read the article, there's absolutely no evidence that he's wearing sweaters to get women's votes. That's just innuendo. It says polls show a gender gap, with more men liking Clark than women, and it says they're concerned about it and trying to change it by running an ad with a woman in it. But nowhere does it say some advisor told him to wear a sweater because women like sweaters.

eklipse · Jan 9, 2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by tie:
Why? Can't it be both, or neither? I don't understand all these strong negative reactions. Clark starts wearing sweaters and we call it "abhorrent"? This is what I would call "no big deal." He has also had prominent women introducing him. Good for him.

If he did it 'because he felt like wearing a sweater' - fine, no biggie - if his reasons for changing his attire were politically motivated it's just petty and silly - in my opinion.

voyageur · Jan 10, 2004, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by MathewM:
As a woman that makes sense that you care about these things more than national defense. It's the nurturer in you.
You (probably) unfortunately see national defense the same as war mongering.

No, it's because in my group of women friends, several of us are teachers, and several are biologists and environmental engineers. Hence the focus on education and the environment.

Now get back in your cave.

kindbud · Jan 10, 2004, 09:10 AM

No wonder men keep getting elected.

MathewM · Jan 10, 2004, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by voyageur:

Now get back in your cave.

Oops sorry thought you were a chick. Sorry didn't mean to get your panties all tied up.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 11, 2004, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by MathewM:
Oops sorry thought you were a chick. Sorry didn't mean to get your panties all tied up.

I don't *really* have to point out how dumb you are, do I?

-s*

Sven G · Jan 11, 2004, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
This just leads me to the inescapable conclusion that political experts are men who are clueless.

As if women - for the so-called "political experts" (sic!) - had soooo different interests than men: rather, it's today's (and yesterday's) men's "interests" that often are far, far away from common human sense!

BTW, on the negative side, women who have "power" can actually be equally if not more assholes than men...

Logic · Jan 11, 2004, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by MathewM:
Women (especially democratic leaning) vote based on feelings, not issues.