[Troll]

Tony Blair faces his toughest week in his career this week. First up is the verdict of the Hutton Inquiry. It's likely Lord Hutton will paint everyone - the BBC, Blair, Campbell and Hoon with a black brush, but depending on what is said about Blair, Hoon and Campbell, Tony might be in a bind. If he makes it through that without being forced to resign, he faces a vote of no confidence on the topic of increasing student's contributions to tuition fees.

So, is this the beginning of the end for Tony Blair? Is he going to be forced to resign by the end of the week?

[eklipse]

In order for Blair to 'go down' there would have to be a viable and/or desirable replacement. I don't see one.

My guess is that he will probably weather it out.

[Twilly Spree]

What about that Mayor of London? Livingstone?

I don't know anything about UK politics but I've heard his name and he's supposed to be right popular.

[Troll]

Originally posted by eklipse:
In order for Blair to 'go down' ...

... for a moment there I thought we were going to get some sex ed.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by Troll:
... for a moment there I thought we were going to get some sex ed.

The only reason I clicked on the thread was to find out who he might be going down on!

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Twilly Spree:
What about that Mayor of London? Livingstone?

I don't know anything about UK politics but I've heard his name and he's supposed to be right popular.

Quick history about Livingstone:
A few years ago he ran for mayor as an independent, not as a representative of the Labour Party. So Blair kicked him out of the party and said he was 'a miserable failure'. Livingstone subsequently won the election, became mayor and is doing a pretty good job. So they let him back in to the Labour Party, embarrassing Blair so he had to admit he was wrong about Livingstone being a 'miserable failure'.
He is definitely not, however, a possible replacement for Blair as leader of the Labour Party.

In response to Troll....

Though the Hutton report may be a little damaging for Blair, I don't think it will be enough to bring him down. Neither will the row over the tuition fees - unless the bill gets defeated. That, IMO, is very unlikely. The Whips have been at work this week!

The problem for Blair however is that he has forced his party to toe the line on three major issues lately-Iraq, foundation hospitals and now the top-up fees. The backbenchers are not happy and there are several who are determined to bring him down - not good! I think there is a very viable replacement - Gordon Brown. I don't think Blair has any intention of stepping down just yet. He will continue to do what he wants for a while longer.

[quandarry]

i dunno, don't live there but how about chuck windsor.

[lil'babykitten]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3434329.stm

Blair just won the top up fees vote very narrowly - just by 5 votes.

Damaging for Blair? definitely, but he's not going down just yet...

[swrate]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3434329.stm

Blair just won the top up fees vote very narrowly - just by 5 votes.

Damaging for Blair? definitely, but he's not going down just yet...

He is charismatic and that gets him over a lot.
I dont think Blair would resign, he is a determined character, and knows nobody can replace him.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by eklipse:
My guess is that he will probably weather it out.

Blair wins key top-up fees vote
Judicial Inquiry Clears Blair on Iraq Intelligence Claims


I told you so.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Blair wins key top-up fees vote
Judicial Inquiry Clears Blair on Iraq Intelligence Claims


I told you so.

Just like us BBC critics have been telling you. What was sexed up was their coverage. Hutton is apparently going to make it official and heads will roll. But they won't be Blair's.

[Sven G]

BTW, from a biography of Tony Blair:

[...] Blair immediately launched his campaign for the modernisation of the Labour Party, determined to complete the shift further towards the political centre which he saw as essential for victory. [...]

... Which is one of the reasons of the failure of the "New" (sic!) Left to have any significant momentum on politics, today: instead of being a force of fresh renovation, they've essentially become a force of reaction...

[Troll]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Just like us BBC critics have been telling you. What was sexed up was their coverage. Hutton is apparently going to make it official and heads will roll. But they won't be Blair's.

Hutton can't make that official! Hutton can only make his opinion official. I was in London yesterday when this broke and a large proportion of the media thinks Hutton got it wrong. Not that they don't think that the BBC deserved to be chastised but that the conclusions that Hutton draws seem wholly unrelated to the conclusions he draws on the evidence. One example, he finds that the MOD acted incorrectly in not informing Kelly either before or after they outed him but he draws the conclusion that they behaved properly.

I must say that I was confident that Blair would survive this, but I thought he'd come out of it stronger than he was going in. He scraped home with 5 votes! That's effectively a loss and from the reports I've read, it looks like his reign at the head of New Labour is effectively over. Public opinion seems to be that the Hutton Enquiry was a farce and the majority of the population still believes that the government acted improperly. Hutton's report has been surpassed by events which only serve to confirm the suspicion that the evidence was made to support the government's position.

Blair still has two big hurdles to overcome relating to Britain's involvement in Iraq. First, it has already noted that this was an enquiry into the death of David Kelly and Parliamentarians have demanded now that there be an investigation into the Iraq War. Blair also faces the embarassing prospect of the courts holding the war to have been illegal in the case against the intelligence whistle blower. I can't see how Blair can recover frankly. I think his carreer has effectively ended.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Troll:
Hutton can't make that official! Hutton can only make his opinion official. I was in London yesterday when this broke and a large proportion of the media thinks Hutton got it wrong.

Surprise surprise.

[Troll]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Surprise surprise.

Well no actually. The UK media had a good go at the BBC before and there were more than enough that blamed them. Easy way to get rid of a competitor and all. I think a lot of people feel that after everything they heard, it seems a bit lopsided to blame this whole affair on David Kelly himself on the one hand and the BBC on the other without being a little harsher on the other actors.

Anyway, the BBC's Chairman resigned which was the honourable thing to do and the BBC has promised to address the criticisms. Pity the government didn't do likewise!

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Troll:
Well no actually. The UK media had a good go at the BBC before and there were more than enough that blamed them. Easy way to get rid of a competitor and all. I think a lot of people feel that after everything they heard, it seems a bit lopsided to blame this whole affair on David Kelly himself on the one hand and the BBC on the other without being a little harsher on the other actors.

Anyway, the BBC's Chairman resigned which was the honourable thing to do and the BBC has promised to address the criticisms. Pity the government didn't do likewise!

Have you seen this? It's from yesterday, as the news came in. Many of the posters are BBC employees. The BBC got spanked, and rightfully so. Maybe next time they will concentrate on reporting the news, not on making it.

Edit: cpelling.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Have you seen this? It's from yesterday, as the news came in. Many of the posters are BBC employees. The BBC got spanked, and rightfully so. Maybe next time they will consentrate on reporting the news, not on making it.

The posters also say that the government deserved a spanking too - which they didn't get.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by eklipse:
The posters also say that the government deserved a spanking too - which they didn't get.

Hutton was an independent inquiry that many expected in advance to come down more on the government than the BBC. In fact, Hutton's evidence came out the other way. It's understandable that those with a vested interest would be upset about that. But that is just sour grapes. What is quite genuine, however, is those voices from the inside who are saying that the BBC is broken from a management point of view. That's what critics have been saying for years. It has taken an independent commission to make the Beeb open up to that reality. However, the circle-the-wagons instinct of any industry shouldn't be underestimated.

As for Blair, he obviously won a significant victory against his critics today. They were counting on Hutton, and it backfired on them. Nevertheless, he is clearly being squeezed here by both the left in his own party, and on the right by the Tories. That accounts for some of the level of criticism right now. Britain is in the slow run up to another election and the Conservatives have a new leader, who seems to be a bit more effective than the last one, and in the mean time, the left of his own party is attacking Blair. He's in a fragile place in the middle, but he obviously still can win a majority.

I don't count myself as any kind of expert on British politics. I don't watch it as closely as I did when I lived there. But I'd say the big loser here after the BBC is Michael Howard and the Conservatives. He was counting on Hutton just as much as the left were.

[Troll]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Have you seen this? It's from yesterday, as the news came in.

Yes, they actually had that part on the GPRS service. Got to read it on my mobile as they were updating it! Amazing technology GSM is!

Here's some more from today.

I am incredulous that the Hutton report has laid so much blame on the BBC whilst leaving the government smelling of roses. Not one person I have spoken to - and there have been quite a few - believes that all the blame, or even much of the blame, lies at the BBC's door. Tony Blair et al have got away with misinformation and deceit. It should be the likes of Alistair Campbell and Hoon who should be tendering their resignations, not the BBC board of governors. The whole thing is a joke. I respect the BBC for standing up to our government.
Terri Chapman, London, UK

[SimeyTheLimey]

Nice selection, Troll. Why didn't you balance it with:

There are too many reporters in the BBC trying to make a name for themselves by uncovering their own 'Watergate'. It is time to start reporting news and not trying to make news!
Nick King, Nottingham, UK

There seems to be a lot of support for the BBC on this site. Your problem is that as long as Gilligan, Sambrook and Dyke remain at the BBC, I simply think you made all the supporting emails up. The word is TRUST... you have lost it; you know what must be done to regain it. That these people are still there makes the arrogance of the BBC palpable.
Philip Gibson, Oldham

I listened to Hutton's broadcast and basically what he said was correct. Perhaps he didn't address issues the way some may have wanted it reviewed but he did what he said he'd do! I hope the BBC learns from this.
Chris, England

The balance of power between journalists and politicians is clear: journalists have the power not the politicians. That's why people who want to make a difference become journalists not politicians, and why so few able people are prepared to enter politics. A lesson from Hutton is that the balance of power is wrong and that some power must shift from journalists to politicians. Only then will we get higher quality politicians who are accountable and fewer arrogant journalists who aren't.
Anthony Wood, Bristol, UK

In any commercial enterprise, if the chairman had to resign because of an employee's actions, there would be no question that the employee would be retained. In fact he would be the first to go, followed by a clear out of any other managers involved in the debacle. I think it would be a grave mistake for the BBC to retain Gilligan, and it would give a clear message to other journalists that your boss takes the rap when you don't do your job properly. The BBC's reputation is far too important, it has been a beacon of integrity in journalism for decades. It is a great national asset and it must rid itself of Gilligan and send a message to other journalists and their editors by taking very tough action to protect its name.
Nick Leon, London, UK

The Hutton Report says what it says and the BBC should accept it and move on! Rather than try to dissect it to find justification that there are parts which are unfair, remember , it could have gone the other way too and then it may be crowing that it was right all the time too! I do no think my impression of the BBC has changed a bit and I still continue to listen to its news reports as I have been doing for the last 40 years! So, get on with the job and clean up your act. Tomorrow is another day!
John Chan, Singapore

It's a divisive issue, and you will get views on both sides. But the bottom line is an independent inquiry didn't come out the way you liked. You'd have been crowing if it had.

[Twilly Spree]

This Hutton report is a show case of hypocrisy and irony

My unconditional support to the BBC. This Hutton report is a show case of hypocrisy and irony. Hypocrisy, because it is hard to believe that the government did not know that the 45 minutes claim was a hoax. As it happens, Iraq would not be able to use WMDs against the UK in 45 years, let alone minutes. Irony, because even if the government was indeed misinformed, Mr. Blair has not been reprimanded for adding the 45 minutes allegation to the very report he published to justify the war against Iraq - In other words, the fact that he did not make sure that the information he was providing was legit does not bear any consequences on him. On the other hand the BBC's governor was forced to resign exactly for the same reason: He is believed to have been negligent in cheeking the veracity of the information BBC published. This is disgusting - a real new labour stuff.
Andre Matta, Netherlands

[Twilly Spree]

I don't like Blair and his leftwing politicians so I've decided to side against the left. :o

Michael Howard is our man in Great Britain.