[davesimondotcom]

A story that even Alanis Morrisette could find irony in:

Al Franken Knocks Down Dean Heckler

January 27, 2004 -- EXETER, N.H. - Wise-cracking funnyman Al Franken yesterday body-slammed a demonstrator to the ground after the man tried to shout down Gov. Howard Dean.

The tussle left Franken's trademark thick-rim glasses broken, but he said he was not injured.

Franken - who seemed in a state of shock and out of breath after the incident - was helped back to his feet by several people who watched the tussle. Police arrived soon after.

"I got down low and took his legs out," said Franken afterwards.

Franken said he's not backing Dean but merely wanted to protect the right of people to speak freely. "I would have done it if he was a Dean supporter at a Kerry rally," he said.

"I'm neutral in this race but I'm for freedom of speech, which means people should be able to assemble and speak without being shouted down."

The trouble started when several supporters of fringe presidential candidate Lyndon Larouche began shouting accusations at Dean.

Franken emerged from the crowd and charged one male protester, grabbing him with a bear hug from behind and slamming him onto the floor.

"I was a wrestler so I used a wrestling move," Franken said.

I love the part about how he is for freedom of speech. But he'll knock you on your ass if you speak when he doesn't want you to.

Meanwhile, Franken is probably going to continue to criticize President Bush - including his "attacks on dissent."

[Zimphire]

Franklin has problems. This we know.

He just made himself out the be the bufoon he is.

[maxelson]

You, sir, have a few other things to answer elsewhere on this board before you go accusing anyone of being a buffoon.
Physician, heal thyself.

[Y3a]

Even Roseanne has more class than Franken.

[Nonsuch]

Lyndon Larouche?!

[BlackGriffen]

What was he thinking? Publicity stunt, maybe? The campaign should have had some sort of security that could have handled escorting the disruptive person away, so wtf?



BlackGriffen

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by maxelson:
You, sir, have a few other things to answer elsewhere on this board before you go accusing anyone of being a buffoon.
Physician, heal thyself.

Please, I would never practice such bufoonery as this.

[boots]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Please, I would never practice such bufoonery as this.

Nice dodge.





BOT: Franken is a bufoon. He's usually a funny bafoon, but a bufoon none the less. He should stick to writing.

While this is the first time he's gotten physical, it is certainly not the first time he has been disruptive at a campaign event.

Usually it's a campaign for someone he doesn't like though.

[NYCFarmboy]

Don't people realize they should accept the views of the Democratic Party?

How dare he protest.

Doesn't he realize that speaking against Dean is a bad thing to do because Dean has a true vision for America?

EDIT:
Anyone that would support that right wing nut had it coming.


go Al!

[finboy]

Originally posted by boots:
He's usually a funny bafoon, but a bufoon none the less.

I'd argue with you there -- I don't think he's been funny since about 1978 or so.

[BlackGriffen]

Here is an article from Salon with a slightly different spin:

Al Franken's heckler smackdown

Tired of several ranting detractors trying to shout down Howard Dean at a New Hampshire rally on Monday, Al Franken cleared the air by knocking them down. Not rhetorically, mind you. He aimed himself at one of the cacophonous critics and charged. "I was a wrestler so I used a wrestling move," Franken said.

The New York Post details the brawl, which makes Howard Dean's "I Have a Scream Speech" look like a Dennis Kucinich peace-in. "The tussle left Franken's trademark thick-rim glasses broken, but he said he was not injured. Franken -- who seemed in a state of shock and out of breath after the incident -- was helped back to his feet by several people who watched the tussle. Police arrived soon after. 'I got down low and took his legs out,' said Franken afterwards."

Franken says he body-slammed the heckler -- a Lyndon Larouche supporter -- in the name of freedom of speech. "People should be able to assemble and speak without being shouted down," he said.

FWIW

BlackGriffen

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
Don't people realize they should accept the views of the Democratic Party?

How dare he protest.

Doesn't he realize that speaking against Dean is a bad thing to do because Dean has a true vision for America?

EDIT:
Anyone that would support that right wing nut had it coming.


go Al!

You gone schizo on us?

BG

[spacefreak]

"I'm neutral in this race"

I bet that's news to Howard Dean.

[thunderous_funker]

There is a difference between stopping someone from speaking freely, and stopping someone who is preventing others from speaking freely.

I suppose unruly and beligerant hecklers who shout at Bush are never removed by security. Oh wait, I forgot. Only people who are Bush supporters are even allowed at a Bush event, including the press.

[dialo]

Here's a little more detail:

Yesterday, the day before the primary, my friend Kenny and I hit a final few events and went to a couple of headquarters to get spun once more before the voting starts. First it was a Dean Town Hall meeting at the Palace Theater in downtown Manchester -- this is the one where Al Franken helped take out a LaRouche protestor and, in the doing, got his glasses broken.

(Don't this place provide some decent street theater!)

This was actually a coordinated LaRouchie attack, with shouts, escalating into heckles and then blowing right through to blizzards of four-letter-words. It also seemed to show up some weaknesses in the Dean security detail. We were up on the theater's upper level and had one of the hecklers come down to the ledge, arms looping this way and that, screaming about Cheney, screaming at Dean, mostly just screaming.

He was the second string protestor or rather the second wave, after the first guy got tossed. Security at these sorts of events tends to be a 'C'mon, c'mon, you've really got to leave now' sort of affair. But as he was working up into full-froth a crew-cut three-hundred-poundish all-together not nice looking guy stomped out, extended his arm, grabbed the dude by the scruff of his neck, said a couple unpleasant things, and then proceeded to shake the guy around like a friggin' rag doll, all the while making clear that he really shouldn't have made such a scene.

Kenny and I looked at each other, thinking, "Sheesh, they're literally going to throw that guy out into the street." But a few moments later, as I'm watching Dean, scribbling in my notebook and comtemplating the fate of the LaRouchie in the hands of Dean's Rock'em, Sock'em Robot, suddenly I hear ... "Aga b'dada, yada! yada, Cheney Cheney #$%#@&, Dean Cheney, Beast Man! allooooooo, yiiiiiiigraaaaaahhhhh. Yada! Dean, who the $#@% do you think you ..."

He was back.

How did he get back in?

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/arc...25.html#002495

[zigzag]

LaRouchies aren't about free speech - they're about being disruptive and interfering with other people's speech. I applaud anyone who decks a screaming LaRouchie, I don't care if it's Al Franken or Bill O'Reilly.

I'd love to see video of this one.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by zigzag:
LaRouchies aren't about free speech - they're about being disruptive and interfering with other people's speech. I applaud anyone who decks a screaming LaRouchie, I don't care if it's Al Franken or Bill O'Reilly.

I'd love to see video of this one.

Heh, I guess Franken wasn't lying when he challenged Rich Lowry to a fight.

Now that I've seen the other side of the story - that this was a coordinated disruption operation - I'm much more sympathetic to Franken, and less so the NYPost.

BlackGriffen

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by dialo:
Here's a little more detail:

Any other blog reports on this? I'd be interested to read exactly what these hecklers were spouting.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Now that I've seen the other side of the story - that this was a coordinated disruption operation - I'm much more sympathetic to Franken, and less so the NYPost.

Why else would multiple Larouche supporters be at an event if it wasn't coordinated? It seems unlikely that they independently decided to attend and disrupt, and then coincidentally bumped into each other while being tossed out, doesn't it?

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Why else would multiple Larouche supporters be at an event if it wasn't coordinated? It seems unlikely that they independently decided to attend and disrupt, and then coincidentally bumped into each other while being tossed out, doesn't it?

Honestly, the thought hadn't occurred to little ol' me that they were being that tenacious - even after being escorted out by security.

I guess the dedication that the old LaRouche guy who's on campus handing out papers from time to time should tell me something.

BlackGriffen

[dialo]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
I suppose unruly and beligerant hecklers who shout at Bush are never removed by security. Oh wait, I forgot. Only people who are Bush supporters are even allowed at a Bush event, including the press.

good point

[The Ayatollah]

Originally posted by maxelson:
You, sir, have a few other things to answer elsewhere on this board before you go accusing anyone of being a buffoon.
Physician, heal thyself.

nice dodge of the topic, and a very lame personal attack. Obviously you have nothing to contribute.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
There is a difference between stopping someone from speaking freely, and stopping someone who is preventing others from speaking freely.

I suppose unruly and beligerant hecklers who shout at Bush are never removed by security. Oh wait, I forgot. Only people who are Bush supporters are even allowed at a Bush event, including the press.

It's called BATTERY with the intent to do bodily harm, and even if this guy did not initially press charges again Franken, he still can and I would advise him to do so.

He even admitted it!

He has never been funny. Ever.

[Johnny Lydon]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Franklin has problems. This we know.

He just made himself out the be the bufoon he is.

Can't you just look up words before you type them? If you don't know the spelling ask your teacher. I slay me.

B U F F O O N

Now if you had buried that in an intelligent post then I would have no problem. But 6.25% of the words in that post are misspelled!

[Johnny Lydon]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
He even admitted it!

He has never been funny. Ever.

Dur... he was surrounded by hundreds of people. Kind of hard to deny.

You've never been smart. Ever.

[roger_ramjet]

Originally posted by Johnny Lydon:
Dur... he was surrounded by hundreds of people. Kind of hard to deny.

You've never been smart. Ever.

It's STILL battery.

I know YOU'RE smart. So why weren't you able to address his main point?

[Johnny Lydon]

Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
It's STILL battery.

I know YOU'RE smart. So why weren't you able to address his main point?

His main point is very obvious and may be legitimate I'm afraid.

[roger_ramjet]

Originally posted by Johnny Lydon:
His main point is very obvious and may be legitimate I'm afraid.

"Very obvious" or "may be legitimate" - which is it?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
There is a difference between stopping someone from speaking freely, and stopping someone who is preventing others from speaking freely.

I suppose unruly and beligerant hecklers who shout at Bush are never removed by security. Oh wait, I forgot. Only people who are Bush supporters are even allowed at a Bush event, including the press.

This seems to be part of a pattern. A few months ago, I linked to a piece in my college newspaper. Dean came to campus to speak. A handful of non disruptive college Republicans tried to get in. They wore Bush buttons, but did not attempt to heckle in any way. Dean's handlers tried to throw them out until finally the University intervened and told them that the Republicans had every right to attend a public event and make their disagreement known.

What these hecklers did was no doubt uncouth and annoying. But this was a public event, which they had every right to attend. Franken was the one supressing free speech. They weren't trying to shut Dean up, they were exercising their public right to make their disagreement with a politician known. That's what the First Amendment is about. It is not "free speech for me, and none for thee." I can't beleive that you of all people would defend the use of physical violence to supress political dissent.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
This seems to be part of a pattern. A few months ago, I linked to a piece in my college newspaper. Dean came to campus to speak. A handful of non disruptive college Republicans tried to get in. They wore Bush buttons, but did not attempt to heckle in any way. Dean's handlers tried to throw them out until finally the University intervened and told them that the Republicans had every right to attend a public event and make their disagreement known.

What these hecklers did was no doubt uncouth and annoying. But this was a public event, which they had every right to attend. Franken was the one supressing free speech. They weren't trying to shut Dean up, they were exercising their public right to make their disagreement with a politician known. That's what the First Amendment is about. It is not "free speech for me, and none for thee." I can't beleive that you of all people would defend the use of physical violence to supress political dissent.

neither would it be correct to defend uncouth heckling INSIDE an event by comparing it with protestors given a permit to hold signs OUTSIDE an event, and prevented from acting on that permit.

sword cuts both ways.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
neither would it be correct to defend uncouth heckling INSIDE an event by comparing it with protestors given a permit to hold signs OUTSIDE an event, and prevented from acting on that permit.

sword cuts both ways.

The sword would cut both ways, which is why I thought it was odd that T_F would buy the line that Franken pummeling protesters is in some way a defense of the First Amendment. It's clearly contrary to the spirit of the First Amendment.

You can make an argument that the Bush events were closed, invitation-only fundraisers, whereas Deans were public rallies. Under the First Amendment you can exclude people from private events (freedom of association). But you can't exclude people from voicing their opinions at a public rally, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

There are, of course, the usual caveats about safety, security, prevention of riots, and so forth. I don't believe that they are implicated here. Franken just lost his temper and decided to make a political statement with his fist.

[Johnny Lydon]

Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
"Very obvious" or "may be legitimate" - which is it?

Do you not understand english? The two are not exclusive of one another. Hence the use of the word AND.

If Franken attacked someone, as it appears "obvious" he did, then charges may be "legitimately" brought against him.

Better?

You got a problem punk? You wanna start somethin? You want a piece a me?

There goes your whole liberals = peacenik pacifist BS. Shove it.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
The sword would cut both ways, which is why I thought it was odd that T_F would buy the line that Franken pummeling protesters is in some way a defense of the First Amendment. It's clearly contrary to the spirit of the First Amendment.

You can make an argument that the Bush events were closed, invitation-only fundraisers, whereas Deans were public rallies. Under the First Amendment you can exclude people from private events (freedom of association). But you can't exclude people from voicing their opinions at a public rally, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

There are, of course, the usual caveats about safety, security, prevention of riots, and so forth. I don't believe that they are implicated here. Franken just lost his temper and decided to make a political statement with his fist.

ok...I'll state again: protestors given a permit to hold signs OUTSIDE an event, and prevented from acting on that permit.


that is different, again, from the invitation only fundraising examples you bring up. I'm referring to protestors who assembled peacefully where they had legally obtained permits to protest and being made to move out of sight of cameras. They weren't in the invitation only event, but in public property outside said event.

regardless, I am not one defending Franken in this instance, I think its assault, pure and simple, whether motivated by politics or concerns of free speech or not.

But I think its wrong to characterize the hecklers as availing themselves of free speech, when its apparent they had already been removed from the event previously by security.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
ok...I'll state again: protestors given a permit to hold signs OUTSIDE an event, and prevented from acting on that permit.

Oh, sure. If there are protesters at any event and they have a permit, then they should be allowed to remain, assuming that they are acting in accordance with the permit. I don't know the specifics you are talking about, but on the facts you gave me, it would clearly be wrong to move them.

Now, again, there are always case-by-case exceptions for public order, physical security and so forth. I'm assuming that those don't apply in any politically-neutral way.

In any case, both the examples I referred to -- the Dean rally on Georgetown's campus last year, and this Dean rally -- were public events. Outside of public safety, there is nothing in the First Amendment that allows organizers of public political events to control the speech of people who choose to attend. It's a free speech event.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Outside of public safety, there is nothing in the First Amendment that allows organizers of public political events to control the speech of people who choose to attend. It's a free speech event.

True, but this is one case where I'd dispense with the legal niceties and say "Your honor, the son-of-a-bitch was askin' for it!"

I hope there's a hearing of some sort. If I were the judge, I'd put LaRouchie and Franken in a cell together and let them scream at each other for a couple of days.

[dialo]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Any other blog reports on this? I'd be interested to read exactly what these hecklers were spouting.

Here's what the National Review said:

One questioner then ignored the instructions to use a microphone and started shouting from the audience.

"Why are you covering up for Dick Cheney? You are going to lose!" he screamed. "Drop out of the race. You're no Democrat. Only Lyndon LaRouche and John Kerry are real Democrats."

After ranting away for a few more moments, Dean's security staff and a few Deaniacs managed to yank this crank into the back of the auditorium.

But just then, a second protester stood up and began his own high-volume tirade.

"Dean's a liar!" he hollered.

At that point, comedian Al Franken rose from among the journalists and others near the stage and said, "Let's get him out of here."

Franken and a few others hustled the second man outside. As they did so, the first ill-mannered LaRouchite reemerged, this time standing in the balcony to the left of the proscenium, bellowing as before and looking ominously like John Wilkes Boothe just before he leapt from the balcony onto the stage of Ford's Theater and landed with a bang in the history books.

Throughout all this commotion, Howard Dean's fuse stayed long and moist. He focused on the questioner who had the floor, somehow discerned her question through the clamor and gave a coherent answer about Iran's mullahs while bedlam prevailed around him. Perhaps exhaustion and a cold had tempered Dean. Maybe he had drilled into deep reserves of self-discipline. In any case, Dean remained refreshingly composed as two clowns tried to turn a successful campaign stop into a one-ring circus.

After Dean thanked the crowd and waved goodbye, someone approached Franken who had returned to his spot at the front end of the right aisle. The Saturday Night Live veteran's trademark horn-rimmed glasses now were held together in the middle with tape. They broke as Franken foiled the attempted Palace coup.

"I never thought of you as a bouncer," the man said. "Maybe they could pay you do that."

Franken replied: "I think we security guards deserve a working wage."

http://www.nationalreview.com/murdoc...0401270912.asp

and also this from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...rats.larouche/