[andi*pandi]

Can the attitudes of Southern border patrol translate to Northern borders? If this is indicative of how southern border patrols are, maybe they need changing, not transplanting.

A way to ruin a friendly town:

http://www.pressherald.com/news/nemi...30aliens.shtml

[gadster]

Wow, that's sad. Have these people read the inscription on the Statue of Liberty? I guess not.

We have had a similar situation 'down-under' for the last couple of years. The govt here has even excised islands from Australian Territory to keep the asylum seekers out. This clearly sucks.

It seems to work well for the politicians. Invocation of fear is a potent and time honoured tactic. An old-style sales tactic.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by gadster:
Wow, that's sad. Have these people read the inscription on the Statue of Liberty? I guess not.

The Statue of Liberty and Liberty Island have been closed since 2001.

[maxelson]

Yes. It has.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by vmarks:
The Statue of Liberty and Liberty Island have been closed since 2001.

Why? 9/11?

[GG Allin]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Why? 9/11?

We are one terrorist attack away from a police state. Individual liberties will be suspended to protect the corporate/banker state.

Anybody see the protesters in Florida getting tear-gassed and shot with rubber bullets? I'd be happy to find a link if anyone is interested.

[kindbud]

Originally posted by GG Allin:
We are one terrorist attack away from a police state. Individual liberties will be suspended to protect the corporate/banker state.

Anybody see the protesters in Florida getting tear-gassed and shot with rubber bullets? I'd be happy to find a link if anyone is interested.

Don't bother looking for the links.

I'd be happy to pelt some protesters with rubber bullets and tear gas while you play cameraman.

[theolein]

Originally posted by andi*pandi:
Can the attitudes of Southern border patrol translate to Northern borders? If this is indicative of how southern border patrols are, maybe they need changing, not transplanting.

A way to ruin a friendly town:

http://www.pressherald.com/news/nemi...30aliens.shtml

Jesus! From the article: "You need to learn to watch your mouth". WTF? I was under the impression that the US was a country where you didn't have to click your heels together and go "Jawohl, Herr Obersturmbahnführer. Sieg Heil" when a cop spoke to you. I thought that was what we "foreigners" had in our socialist nazi countries.

[andi*pandi]

Yes, theolin, that line right there articulated to me that you can't just brush this off as "just rounding up damned illegals." If they are also treating CITIZENS, PEACEFUL CITIZENS, like scum, using intimidation, then we should all be concerned.

I know if I was minding my own business in a store or restaurant and someone came up and demanded to "see my papers" I'd be offended and pissed and wonder what Orwell/Vonnegut novel I'd landed in.

[Saddam H.]

you can tell that the piece is severely slanted. This wouldn't be the first time in the history of colonial journalism that some liberal wanker wrote a disgusting, intentionally biased and flat-out untrue article.

[roger_ramjet]

Originally posted by theolein:
Jesus! From the article: "You need to learn to watch your mouth". WTF? I was under the impression that the US was a country where you didn't have to click your heels together and go "Jawohl, Herr Obersturmbahnführer. Sieg Heil" when a cop spoke to you. I thought that was what we "foreigners" had in our socialist nazi countries.

Had a simliar experience with a cop back in the '70s. I don't know how but we managed to avoid becoming a police state back then. Some cops are jerks. She should have asked for his badge number.

[chalk_outline]

Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
She should have asked for his badge number.

I tried that in Eugene, OR. Four cops covered their badges. Refusing to allow me any way of knowing who they were.

P.S. This was during Clinton (1998). The Moral. Cops freak out if you can name them. The charge. The front brakes on my bike were not attached. The back brakes functioned fine. **** the cops.

[Ayelbourne]

(Monte J. Bennett, assistant chief patrol agent for the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection in Houlton) calls such fears unfounded. If confronted by a federal agent, he said, all anyone has to do is "be friendly, be straightforward and answer their questions."

Simey, if you are reading this, in reference to our brief exchange about mandatory traffic stops/roadblocks, you said:

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Actually, you could still refuse to answer questions even if you are stopped. The police can't ever force you to answer their questions.

What if said police are accompanied by a federal agent? Can one still refuse to answer their questions with no consequences? Of course, I know there will certainly be consequences for not answering, but I am curious about citizens' rights, regardless of whether or not they are honored.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by vmarks:
The Statue of Liberty and Liberty Island have been closed since 2001.

Actually the grounds have been open for quite some time. The statue itself is shut:
http://www.nps.gov/stli/

And word is, there are no plans to ever open it back up. There was supposed to be some announcement at the end of 03, but it got pushed back further.

The Original "construction" was mapping the structure. As with all other monuments, they have been digitalized, so if destroyed, every bolt could be replicated.

Due to it's awkward size and design, it can't be secured (anyone ever went in that thing, knows what a mess it really is).


Elis Island has been open for some time:
http://www.nps.gov/elis/

[Face Ache]

The Statue of Liberty, one of the most universal symbols of America, was actually a gift from the people of France. Conceived as the embodiment of political freedom and a gift of international friendship, "Liberty Enlightening the World" (the Statue's original name) has become a beacon for people both commemorating and still in search of freedom and opportunity.

And now closed to the public.

We got yer irony, right here.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
And now closed to the public.

We got yer irony, right here.

he he... never even thought of that... but yea.


Sad, but it won't ever reopen. At least not until there's an unpresidented breakthrough in security technology.

[FeLiZeCaT]

quoted from macvillage.net:

Sad, but it won't ever reopen. At least not until there's an unpresidented breakthrough in security technology.

_________________________________


Here is a hint: keep a leash on your corporations.

You might find the rest of the world much more friendlier than you thought and more eager to do good business with you.

[gadster]

Can I just reiterate, please get off yer fat McAsses and VOTE.

Don't be alarmed. There is a good chance you will find fast-food outlet nearby the polling station.

Just vote and relax.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by gadster:
Can I just reiterate, please get off yer fat McAsses and VOTE.

Don't be alarmed. There is a good chance you will find fast-food outlet nearby the polling station.

Just vote and relax.

motivation by insult...hey! that JUST MIGHT WORK!

[maxelson]

Originally posted by kindbud:
Don't bother looking for the links.

I'd be happy to pelt some protesters with rubber bullets and tear gas while you play cameraman.

Why, Spliffy. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were... well... Un American. Non Patriot. One who stands against all that this country is supposed to be.

[kindbud]

damn.

I got half the people claiming I'm a blind patriot and the same half accusing me of being un-American.

That makes my opinions the most unbiased you'll find around these parts.

That being said,

France sucks.

(flaunt it if you got it)

[maxelson]

I have tried so hard to dislike you. Can't.

[kindbud]

While Spliffdaddy and kindbud would be quick to take up arms against a peacenik protest march - I probably wouldn't. For those that say there are no 'non-peaceniks' willing, themselves, to fight with our soldiers - you couldn't be more wrong. America is heaping full of citizens that are willing to put their life on the line for the betterment of America. I know plenty that already do just that. Folks that make Spliffdaddy and kindbud look like angelic schoolgirls. When it comes down to it, there's no better reason to die - is there?

[maxelson]

And- ultimately, isn't that what most of us want? The betterment of our country and the world as a whole? Yes, we find it hard to disagree on HOW that should be done. Yes. But, in general, I think the citizenry (yes, I am qualifying that to exclude those in power) is of one mind in that aspect. We just forget that we are.

[Ayelbourne]

Originally posted by maxelson:
And- ultimately, isn't that what most of us want? The betterment of our country and the world as a whole? Yes, we find it hard to disagree on HOW that should be done. Yes. But, in general, I think the citizenry (yes, I am qualifying that to exclude those in power) is of one mind in that aspect. We just forget that we are.

Yes - and people also forget that, in addition to their being citizens of their country, their country itself is also a citizen of the world. We all possess this type of dual-citizenship. There has to be a greater concern, a greater responsibility and accountability beyond that of simple nationalism if we are all ever going to live together in peace.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by Ayelbourne:
Yes - and people also forget that, in addition to their being citizens of their country, their country itself is also a citizen of the world. We all possess this type of dual-citizenship. There has to be a greater concern, a greater responsibility and accountability beyond that of simple nationalism if we are all ever going to live together in peace.

Well said,

[andi*pandi]

there's just so much love in here...

you're all beautiful and special people.

[Evan_11]

Originally posted by Ayelbourne:
We all possess this type of dual-citizenship. There has to be a greater concern, a greater responsibility and accountability beyond that of simple nationalism if we are all ever going to live together in peace.

What does dual citizenship mean in practical terms?

[maxelson]

Think global; act local.
Realize that your actions have an effect.
No man is an island.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should...

I can go on, if you'd like.

[Spheric Harlot]

damn hippies.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
damn hippies.

yeah, in our '88 volvos, no less!

(wonders where that missassumption originated. I drive a Kia Rio, fire engine red, with spiderman license plates and spiderman wheelcover, mats and window decals. Hardly a volvo. Not a hippy, either. You can always tell how a young a person is by how they misuse the term "hippy" )

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
yeah, in our '88 volvos, no less!

(wonders where that missassumption originated. I drive a Kia Rio, fire engine red, with spiderman license plates and spiderman wheelcover, mats and window decals. Hardly a volvo. Not a hippy, either. You can always tell how a young a person is by how they misuse the term "hippy" ) [/B]

It's you! And you've got the facial hair to prove it!

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by vmarks:


It's you! And you've got the facial hair to prove it!

LOL!

[andi*pandi]

people, the topic is jackbooted thugs, not portly comicbook store owners.

Really now.

[Evan_11]

Originally posted by maxelson:
I can go on, if you'd like.

Mean People Suck.

Now can we please define dual citizenship?

[Evan_11]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
yeah, in our '88 volvos, no less!

(wonders where that missassumption originated. I drive a Kia Rio, fire engine red, with spiderman license plates and spiderman wheelcover, mats and window decals. Hardly a volvo. Not a hippy, either. You can always tell how a young a person is by how they misuse the term "hippy" )

Dude a Volvo would be cooler than what you're driving.

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Seriously do you wear Spiderman underoos too?

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Evan_11:
Dude a Volvo would be cooler than what you're driving.

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Seriously do you wear Spiderman underoos too?

no, but my five year old son does, for whom I decorated the car.

Now, do you want to personally attack my five year old son, now? I wouldn't advise it. I think he could out argue you. He certainly has better manners.

[Ayelbourne]

Originally posted by Evan_11:
What does dual citizenship mean in practical terms?

It means you have more than one passport, that you hold citizenship in more than one country. Not all countries allow this. The U.S. does - or did, last time I checked. Things ain't what they used to be in the offices of the INS.

I was reading an interesting article about American dual-citizenship last year. I'll try to dig it up...


Edit: it seems Phyllis Schlafly considers someone like me a globalist who is diminishing patriotism. Nice to know.

[Spliffdaddy]

whoa.

*lights dim across the east coast as TNproud2b fires up his long-dormant OC'd AMD dually...amidst the deafening roar of 7300rpm fans atop gleaming copper heatpiped Coolermaster heatsinks - Spliffdaddy awakens from his slumber*

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by Ayelbourne:
It means you have more than one passport, that you hold citizenship in more than one country. Not all countries allow this. The U.S. does - or did, last time I checked. Things ain't what they used to be in the offices of the INS.

I was reading an interesting article about American dual-citizenship last year. I'll try to dig it up...


Edit: it seems Phyllis Schlafly considers someone like me a globalist who is diminishing patriotism. Nice to know.

Actually, the U.S. doesn't recognize dual citizenship. I have both British and American passports, but as far as the U.S. is concerned, I am a U.S. citizen and only a U.S. Citizen. As far as Briton is concerned I am a citizen of both the U.S. and the U.K.

[theolein]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
Actually, the U.S. doesn't recognize dual citizenship. I have both British and American passports, but as far as the U.S. is concerned, I am a U.S. citizen and only a U.S. Citizen. As far as Briton is concerned I am a citizen of both the U.S. and the U.K.

And which Briton would that be, one you know personally?

[version]

This is just the tip of the iceberg. The Patriot act is going to be used in ways many of you will never even fathom. You hand over your liberty's for a false promise of security, but what the media don't tell you, is that those causing those acts of terror, are the very ones who are promising you security. Wake up will you.

I just sat through a lecture by a brigadier general of the US military, who also advised the White House on defence matters for over 12 years; and he pointed out some very brutal facts pertaining to Oklahoma city bombing, to 9/11, and the first trade centre bombing.

Do you know that the US administration refuses to release surveillance tapes of the Oklahoma bombings? Reasons - they show a second fugitive who is of Mid-East appearance and was identified by dozens of witnesses as a certain Al-Husaini. This man was on the bank roll of the CIA and part of the team that was setup by the FBI to blow up the trade centre the first time. Don't believe me? Just have a look at the eye-witnes testimonies of the Oklahoma bombings, have a read of the police investigation afterwards and the HUGE cover-up that exists which has been the focus of many people.
Also, and this is the killer, it';s on court records, documented, that the FBI setup the first trade centre bombings, thewy admitted it, it's on tape, it was all over the court proceedings, but no-one seemed to bother to take note, and they had over 1000 ex-Iraqi republican guard members in the US since the early 90's, and they have been used by the US for various acts.

This is all part of the cause reaction solution agenda. We're being manipulated into thinking that we are under attack, and therefore need the security of the Governmebt. In actual fact, we're handing over all our civil rights with no guarantee of security, since the real terrorists are sitting in the White House.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by theolein:
And which Briton would that be, one you know personally?

Leave me alone, I'm sick

[Saddam H.]

Riiight. The FBI conspired to blow up the trade centres, people know about it, and yet somehow no one has taken any action.

Where do you get this rubbish?

[theolein]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
Leave me alone, I'm sick

Sorry, I meant to put in a wink there, but forgot. Get well soon.

[maxelson]

Originally posted by Evan_11:
Mean People Suck.

Now can we please define dual citizenship?

I did. He was not talking about dual citizenship as an official thing- he was talking about it as a state of mind- being active and involved in taking responsibility for one's country and government (from top to bottom), and extending the mentality to remember that what we as a country do effects the entire planet- for better or worse and not in small terms.

[maxelson]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
whoa.

*lights dim across the east coast as TNproud2b fires up his long-dormant OC'd AMD dually...amidst the deafening roar of 7300rpm fans atop gleaming copper heatpiped Coolermaster heatsinks - Spliffdaddy awakens from his slumber*

[mike wazowski] hey. how many kids you got in there? [/mike wazowski]

[christ]

Originally posted by maxelson:
No man is an island.

Paul Simon is, he said so.

(I am a rock, I am an island...)

[Ayelbourne]

Originally posted by christ:
Paul Simon is, he said so.

(I am a rock, I am an island...)

"I am no man!" - Eowyn

[Ayelbourne]

Originally posted by maxelson:
I did. He was not talking about dual citizenship as an official thing- he was talking about it as a state of mind- being active and involved in taking responsibility for one's country and government (from top to bottom), and extending the mentality to remember that what we as a country do effects the entire planet- for better or worse and not in small terms.

Exactly. I place being a good human being before being a good patriot.

I believe that President Bush has a responsibility to the citizens of the U.S. to make sure their good standing in the world is as secure as he would like their daily lives to be.