[John C. Smith]

I think that the controversy surrounding the Half Time "wardrobe malfunction" will bring the issue of censorship under increased scrutiny as many Americans begin to open up to the idea of seeing breasts on prime time network tv. I think that because of this incident, standards for "common decency" will be lowered, and Americans will begin to wonder why censorship guidelines aren't being adjusted to more accurately reflect the decline in morality. What do you think?

[GG Allin]

I find a woman's breasts to be very decent. I don't agree with American standards of decency. Your puritan ideas are backwards. Nudity has NOTHING to do with morality. But I will say that the WAY it was done was very disrespectful to women and a bit offensive to me. Although as a man I liked it at the same time. Very sexy.

If you want morals to be taught on television then get rid of soap operas and reality television!!!!!!!!!! Then get a grip.

[John C. Smith]

Ripping a leather bra thingy off to reveal a nipple shield, while funny, is indicative of how low moral standards have become in the US.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by GG Allin:
I find a woman's breasts to be very decent. I don't agree with American standards of decency. Your puritan ideas are backwards. Nudity has NOTHING to do with morality.

If you want morals to be taught on television then get rid of soap operas and reality television!!!!!!!!!! Then get a grip.

I'm with you. Boobs are just that, but the real
boobs were those complaining. I do think she
snuck one by everyone, but I really don't care.

We are a bit too puritan in ths country.

Nudity has nothing to do with morality.
What is imoral is using sex to sell something.

If it isn't worth buying, then all the sex in the
world is going to make it a better product.

Take, Beyonce (sp), now she was awesome!
and she didn't even have to show boobage.

That's what I'm talking about.

[GG Allin]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
We are a bit too puritan in ths country.

Nudity has nothing to do with morality.
What is imoral is using sex to sell something.

If it isn't worth buying, then all the sex in the
world is going to make it a better product.

I'm glad we found something to agree on.

[DeathToWindows]

We got utterly screwed by the puritans.

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by John C. Smith:
Ripping a leather bra thingy off to reveal a nipple shield, while funny, is indicative of how low moral standards have become in the US.

My goodness, the world is coming to an end because of this. It's okay to show children thousands of people being shot and murdered, on television, by the age of ten, and it's okay for parents to take their children to church on Sunday, and then cheat on each other and break their marriage vows, but Nipplegate is the straw that broke the camel's back, isn't it?

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by KarlG:
My goodness, the world is coming to an end because of this. It's okay to show children thousands of people being shot and murdered, on television, by the age of ten, and it's okay for parents to take their children to church on Sunday, and then cheat on each other and break their marriage vows, but Nipplegate is the straw that broke the camel's back, isn't it?

I hate that about our television.

CSI, NYPD BLUE, etc. are all ok, but some
bimbo shows a boob and all hell is breaking
loose!

Stupid.

[pooka]

I support the use of military force to liberate the oppressed nipples of the us... nay, the world.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by pooka:
I support the use of military force to liberate the oppressed nipples of the us... nay, the world.

Wah ha ha ha ha ha!

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a while!

BG

[Cadaver]

I liked Jay Leno's joke tonight:

"CBS said the bearing of Janet Jackson's breast was offensive and did not conform to CBS's broadcast standards...

...Yet they show a commercial with a horse farting in a woman's face."


Sums up the over-reaction just a bit, eh?
While I agree it was a mistake, bringing the weight of the entire FCC down on this single incident is a little over the top, IMHO.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
I liked Jay Leno's joke tonight:

"CBS said the bearing of Janet Jackson's breast was offensive and did not conform to CBS's broadcast standards...

...Yet they show a commercial with a horse farting in a woman's face."


Sums up the over-reaction just a bit, eh?
While I agree it was a mistake, bringing the weight of the entire FCC down on this single incident is a little over the top, IMHO.

no, it was over Janet's top.

[andi*pandi]

what is sad and annoying about this is that the FCC is going to spend tons of money "investigating" and to what end?

Please don't waste my tax money on this.

[John C. Smith]

I'm not really going to argue with anyone over the integrity of breasts, I'm just saying that i think Americans now are going to wonder why censorship and common decency "guidelines" aren't being lowered to reflect the change in the country's attitude.

[spacefreak]

Realize that we live in a country of people with all sorts of values. If parents across the country are lighting up CBS's switchboards with complaints, then so be it. That is their right.

I'm not offended, and you may not be either. But if something else were to occur that did offend us, I would hope CBS would listen to our complaints just the same.

As for the "commercials are more offensive" crowd, I do see a difference. When I was a pre-teen, I rarely (if ever) paid attention to beer or medicine commercials. I did, however, watch musical performances by the big stars of the day.

If I was a little 7-year-old watching John Travolta and Olivia Newton John (big stars when I was that age) dance around, and he violently ripped her blouse off to show her breast, I think I would have been a bit shocked, and I think my parents would have been upset that this was done on a network in primetime. And on the west coast, this performance was broadcast during dinner hours - much earlier than any showing of a CSI or NYPD Blue.

Again, I wasn't offended, but I am not about to criticize and crucify those that were.

[Spheric Harlot]

Fair enough.

But in any case, a formal apology and done with it.

An full investigation is as uncalled for as the Kenneth Starr report.

And realize that Europe is a bunch of countries with "people with all sorts of values", too.

-s*

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
And realize that Europe is a bunch of countries with "people with all sorts of values", too.

Yeah, but Europe's not really involved here AFAIK- it looks to be mostly outrage by US citizens watching a US event televised on a US television network.

If we were witnessing some European outrage at something, then perhaps we could go into their mix of values.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
If we were witnessing some European outrage at something, then perhaps we could go into their mix of values.

Well, the fact that you don't over nudity or sexuality is kind of the point here.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Yeah, but Europe's not really involved here AFAIK- it looks to be mostly outrage by US citizens watching a US event televised on a US television network.

If we were witnessing some European outrage at something, then perhaps we could go into their mix of values.

actually, the superbowl is watched around the world.
It might happen in the US, but its viewership is wider than that. Hence the high prices for adverts.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
actually, the superbowl is watched around the world.

In what nation is most of the outrage taking place?

[Developer]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
actually, the superbowl is watched around the world.
It might happen in the US, but its viewership is wider than that. Hence the high prices for adverts.

I don't remember it being broadcasted in Germany (but didn't care so it might have been), but if stuff is (like Academy Award, Golden Globe etc. pp.) ads are always local ones not the original Americans.

[thunderous_funker]

A nipple on TV?

Clearly the terrorists have already won.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
In what nation is most of the outrage taking place?

sorry, when you said europe was not involved, I mistook your meaning to say they couldn't comment because they didn't view the event.

[Millennium]

Those with a cultural priority of censoring violence over sex have very little right to complain about another culture's priority of censoring sex over violence. Is this not what cultural relativism is all about?

[hyteckit]

Liberation for the US!

Women are force to have their nipples hidden behind clothing while fat hairy chested men with gigantic breasts are being shown on TV every week. That's an outrage.

Case in point: My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiance.

http://www.fox.com/bigfat/

Argh!

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
In what nation is most of the outrage taking place?

In what nation is the outrage most likely to take place?

[bewebste]

Originally posted by hyteckit:
Liberation for the US!

Women are force to have their nipples hidden behind clothing while fat hairy chested men with gigantic breasts are being shown on TV every week. That's an outrage.

Case in point: My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiance.

http://www.fox.com/bigfat/

Argh!

Yeah, if Bush were serious about "protecting the sanctity of marriage", they'd be launching an investigation into that show instead of this crap.

[phoenixboy]

WTF? i can't believe people are even considering a serious discussion about this?!

oooh, ahhh, naked titties on tv

pfffff, get over it.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
WTF? i can't believe people are even considering a serious discussion about this?!

oooh, ahhh, naked titties on tv

pfffff, get over it.

It wouldn't have bothered me if it was a nice naked titty. I used to think Janet Jackson was quite attractive ... then I saw that duet

[vmpaul]

Call me a music prude but I'm more offended by the lip-synching than the flash. Can these people sing or not? Or are they all just studio creations?

[John C. Smith]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Call me a music prude but I'm more offended by the lip-synching than the flash. Can these people sing or not? Or are they all just studio creations?

If they had any talent they wouldn't have to resort to these ridiculous stunts to get attention.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by John C. Smith:
If they had any talent they wouldn't have to resort to these ridiculous stunts to get attention.

true

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
WTF? i can't believe people are even considering a serious discussion about this?!

People were past 'considering' before the game even ended. Parents and others were jamming the CBS switchboards right after the halftime show. Some people were obviously offended.

Perhaps you should pick up a newspaper or surf some news sites...there's plenty of stories about it. That may help you believe it a bit more.

[Fanatic]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Call me a music prude but I'm more offended by the lip-synching than the flash. Can these people sing or not? Or are they all just studio creations?

Kid Rock sang about 5% of his song...

[Evan_11]

Check out Drudge. He has a link to an archived MTV article that was immediately removed after the "wardrobe malfunction". This stunt was clearly planned and executed to boost sagging record sales.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by John C. Smith:
If they had any talent they wouldn't have to resort to these ridiculous stunts to get attention.

It's the tried-and-true Madonna school of publicity. Make an ass out of yourself, or offend the population, then sell a few million albums the flowing Tuesday.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by John C. Smith:
If they had any talent they wouldn't have to resort to these ridiculous stunts to get attention.

You should know that talent has absolutely NOTHING to do with sales, these days.

-s*

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Call me a music prude but I'm more offended by the lip-synching than the flash. Can these people sing or not? Or are they all just studio creations?

For the most part, they all can sing very well.

The difficulty for this performance is a few-fold. For one, the stadium is setup for a football game, not a concert. (If you've been to stadium concerts, you'd see the large, elaborate, complex sound system setups necessary for quality stadium sound).

Also, the dancing makes it tough on vocalists. Puff Daddy and Nelly can sing and dance, but they're not really demonstrating a huge vocal range. Kid Rock - he's not dancing (choreographically), and he's mostly singing in a limited range with occasional howls and screams. Janet and Justin have the really tough jobs - singing on key and with range while doing some agressive and demanding dancing.

With concerts, it is the Janet/Britney/Madonna/Boy band singer/dancers who are the prime lip-sync culprits. But if they only had to sing, they'd all do a more than adequate job. But their performances would be quite boring.

[BRussell]

So how long did it take the administration to decide to investigate the missing Iraqi WMDs?

And how long did it take them to decide to investigate Nipplegate?

At least we know they have their priorities straight.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
It's the tried-and-true Madonna school of publicity. Make an ass out of yourself, or offend the population, then sell a few million albums the flowing Tuesday.

I guess I'm odd. I don't understand how that is appealing to anyone who isn't under the age of 7. I buy music because I LIKE the music, not because of stunts or just because someone is on TV. All style, no substance.

OT - BTW, is there anybody who has achieved more fame and money with absolutely no talent than P. Diddy? He's never had a 'hit' that didn't involve 'sampling' some other hit form the 70's and 80's. During the halftime show one of his raps sampled the "Hey Mickey" song from the 70's. That HAS to be a low point. What's next a ' Mary had a Little Lamb' rap?

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
For the most part, they all can sing very well.

The difficulty for this performance is a few-fold. For one, the stadium is setup for a football game, not a concert. (If you've been to stadium concerts, you'd see the large, elaborate, complex sound system setups necessary for quality stadium sound).

Also, the dancing makes it tough on vocalists. Puff Daddy and Nelly can sing and dance, but they're not really demonstrating a huge vocal range. Kid Rock - he's not dancing (choreographically), and he's mostly singing in a limited range with occasional howls and screams. Janet and Justin have the really tough jobs - singing on key and with range while doing some agressive and demanding dancing.

With concerts, it is the Janet/Britney/Madonna/Boy band singer/dancers who are the prime lip-sync culprits. But if they only had to sing, they'd all do a more than adequate job. But their performances would be quite boring.

excellent points, and to add: there is a half second to one second delay from when you speak into the microphone and when it finally booms out of the speakers. Keep in mind that unlike a concert, where the speakers are directed OUTWARDS from the performerst to the audience, in a stadium the reverse is true, speakers surround the field and project INWARDS....That can be very disconcerting to overcome as a singer...if not downright impossible.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
You should know that talent has absolutely NOTHING to do with sales, these days.

Talent has everything to do with sales.

The artist must be talented. The musicians must be talented. The engineers and producers must be talented. The marketing firms must be talented. The video producer and directors must be talented. The stylists and wardrobe staff must be talented. The agencies must be talented. And of course, the major labels have huge distribution networks, established by talented business people.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
Keep in mind that unlike a concert, where the speakers are directed OUTWARDS from the performerst to the audience, in a stadium the reverse is true, speakers surround the field and project INWARDS....That can be very disconcerting to overcome as a singer...if not downright impossible.

Without earpieces or stage monitors, you're absoluely right.

[saab95]

Originally posted by John C. Smith:
I think that the controversy surrounding the Half Time "wardrobe malfunction" will bring the issue of censorship under increased scrutiny as many Americans begin to open up to the idea of seeing breasts on prime time network tv. I think that because of this incident, standards for "common decency" will be lowered, and Americans will begin to wonder why censorship guidelines aren't being adjusted to more accurately reflect the decline in morality. What do you think?

What bothers me to no end is the unusual amount of blame being placed upon Janet Jackson.

MTV are a bunch of dope-taking racist maggots, as far as I'm concerned. That's where the real demise in morality is taking place.

[saab95]

Originally posted by BRussell:
So how long did it take the administration to decide to investigate the missing Iraqi WMDs?

And how long did it take them to decide to investigate Nipplegate?

At least we know they have their priorities straight.

Nipplegate?

AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

[saab95]

Justin has the hotties for Janet

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by spacefreak:


With concerts, it is the Janet/Britney/Madonna/Boy band singer/dancers who are the prime lip-sync culprits. But if they only had to sing, they'd all do a more than adequate job. But their performances would be quite boring.

Just a matter of preferences I guess. I have gone to, and still do go, to many concerts but that's with REAL musicians who can play REAL instruments and sing live IN PERSON. Creative professionals that write, sing and perform actually add to the body of music we have. I find creativity and musicianship to be very entertaining. Nothing boring about it to me.

I can't imagine paying $75+ to see someone lip-synch on stage. I have 6 year old nephews who can do that.

Just my opinion. There's certainly room for everyone.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
I can't imagine paying $75+ to see someone lip-synch on stage.

Well, of course that would be pretty boring. But usually, these entertainers dance, have an ensemble of dancers who are all choreographed, and have elaborate stage and lighting setups, etc.

Like you, I also frequent live bands, and I never venture to these singer-dancer productions. But they're productions nonetheless, and a lot of people work ther tails off to make it all come together.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Talent has everything to do with sales.

The artist must be talented. The musicians must be talented. The engineers and producers must be talented. The marketing firms must be talented. The video producer and directors must be talented. The stylists and wardrobe staff must be talented. The agencies must be talented. And of course, the major labels have huge distribution networks, established by talented business people.

You are of course correct that people of talent are required for music to sell.

However:
The musical talent of the person in the spotlight is indeed for the large part irrelevant to the sale of records, as switching on the radio and hearing 85% pitch correction tells me.

The lack of talent on the business side is pretty obvious, as well, if the record companies' current situation is anything to go by.

Also, it has been proven, AFAIK, that people don't buy the more talented artists's records; they buy the more often-heard artists' records. Airplay far outweighs talent for sales.

-s*

[vmpaul]

Well, we're certainly off-topic now.

I, personally, have never seen Janet actually sing. Of all the TV appearances and videos I have ever seen she's doing the same formula - dozen or so dancers around or behind her doing the same moves with her lip-synching. Same formula different costumes (or in this case a little less costume). Doesn't appeal to my sense of creativity, and I'm not even talking about the music. That's even more banal.

We'll see. I heard she's going to be on the Grammy's this weekend. AFAIK, they don't allow lip-syncning. Or breast-baring for that matter.