[macintologist]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/160422_oreilly13.html

AND his memo on his own show:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107833,00.html

Things might change, but right now it looks like the CIA overestimated the_weapons of mass destruction_threat in Iraq.

This of course is embarrassing to the U.S. and President Bush should address the issue. If U.S. intelligence made a mistake then let's admit it -- there are too many America-haters making propaganda with the situation and some of them are right here at home.

The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace -- a left-wing organization -- is accusing the Bush administration of purposely misleading the country. But if you buy that argument you also have to buy that Bill Clinton, Dick Gephardt and Tony Blair were also in on the big con for they saw the same intelligence Mr. Bush did and came to the same conclusion: Saddam was harboring deadly weapons and could easily distribute them to terrorists.

So the lie theory is bull, but the mistake is real and it's a big mistake. The Bush administration should own up.

Maybe it will and there is a slight chance Saddam will tell the world what really happened to the sarin gas and other stuff. A slight chance.

Americans are a forgiving people and we all make mistakes. We are now living in an age of ideological demagoguery where honest mistakes are turned into lies by ruthless, dishonest individuals. It makes me sick.

But in order to be forgiven the mistake must be acknowledged and so far the President has failed to do that.

To be fair he may be waiting for the final Kay report and that's legit. But Mr. Bush should be careful with this WMD deal -- he has alienated many of his supporters with the immigration decision and the president cannot afford to have his core become disenchanted.

Full disclosure is always the best policy especially when American troops are dying. Mr. Bush has enjoyed the confidence of most Americans up to this point but that confidence should never be taken for granted.

And that's The Memo.

[BRussell]

Sounds pretty under-handed to me. "The president should come out and admit someone else made a mistake!"

[thunderous_funker]

Paraphrase: "I'm sorry that the CIA misled me, the president, and the country"

Wrong as usual, Bill. Wrong as usual.

[boots]

I'm gonna break ranks here.

I don't like the way Bill runs interviews or how he provides no-spin commentary (oxymoron if ever there was one).

But Bill often has some pretty surprising views. He actually seems to be indicting Bush for not taking responsibility. A big deal coming from Bill.

Sure, we can argue about the degree to which GW believed the threat and if that was stretched or not. From GW's point of view, maybe not. WE DON'T KNOW.

But Bill is saying that GW acted on the same info that everyone else had, so he should own up to it. Call it passing the buck (as TF and BG have done) or call it admitting you have a very serious flaw in the way things are done. Either way, its a big indictment coming from Bill.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by boots:
I'm gonna break ranks here.

I don't like the way Bill runs interviews or how he provides no-spin commentary (oxymoron if ever there was one).

But Bill often has some pretty surprising views. He actually seems to be indicting Bush for not taking responsibility. A big deal coming from Bill.

Sure, we can argue about the degree to which GW believed the threat and if that was stretched or not. From GW's point of view, maybe not. WE DON'T KNOW.

But Bill is saying that GW acted on the same info that everyone else had, so he should own up to it. Call it passing the buck (as TF and BG have done) or call it admitting you have a very serious flaw in the way things are done. Either way, its a big indictment coming from Bill.

I'll go along with saying this is a LARGE concession from Bill, and includes the indictment that the threat was overstated. More than I would have expected, so I'm happy with it.

[BRussell]

It is a big deal coming from a partisan Republican like him. The thing is, he claims he's fair and balanced and non-partisan and has a no spin zone on his show. And of course he was backed into this by his own words. Anyone think he wouldn't be doing his usual spinning of this issue right now if someone hadn't found those statements he made in the past about this?

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by BRussell:
It is a big deal coming from a partisan Republican like him. The thing is, he claims he's fair and balanced and non-partisan and has a no spin zone on his show. And of course he was backed into this by his own words. Anyone think he wouldn't be doing his usual spinning of this issue right now if someone hadn't found those statements he made in the past about this?

well, but as we see from other republicans, merely having actual records of what you said in the past is not enough motivation to force you to admit you said them...

[thunderous_funker]

But its an indictment of the CIA.

By dismissing the findings of the Carnegie report out of hand (and with an utterly retarded pseudo-argument), Bill marches step in step with the new White House talking points that this was all the fault of the CIA.

Even a cursory review and comparison of the public (not confidential) exerpts of the NIE and the White House's speeches makes this position utterly untenable.

Even a single example should be enough.

The NIE stated that Iraq's nuclear program was 5-7 years away from being able to develop a bomb with a few people dissenting that it could happen sooner provided that it could get fuel material.

Well, considering that Iraq had been unable to do that for 14 years, even before the advent of inspections, no-fly zones, endless surveliance, and trade sanctions, that hardly would substantiate Bush's constant claims that Iraq was close to a bomb, or Cheney's claim they already had one, or Rice allusions to mushroom clouds.

Every caveat and disclaimer in the NIE was missing from the administration's public pronouncements.

How about the aluminum tubes? When presented with a difference of opinion on the possible use of the tubes, the administration presented the least likely and least supported explaination that they were for centrifuges to enrich uranium. That claim was not held by the IAEA, DOE or even the State Dept.'s INR.

But did the administration say "well, the IAEA, DOE, INR and others dispute this fact" ? No, they said Iraq was actively trying to acquire material for building a bomb.

Let's not forget the "yellow cake" debacle.

Line by line, "fact" by "fact", argument by argument, the administration overstated the case against Iraq even over the CIA's overstated case.

Yes, the CIA greatly overestimated Iraq. But that doesn't change the fact that the administration exaggerated even the CIA's case beyond all reasonable measure.

[macvillage.net]

Funny. The Intelegence community never said they were hard facts.

It's the Bush Administration that passed them off as hard facts. They were intentionally noted according to CIA officials as possible/suspected, and weren't considered solid information.

The CIA is supposed to gather all info, and process it. And keep the Whitehouse informed of possible problems as they develop.

The Whitehouse *should* be able to tell the difference between rumor/fact.

The information is provided in a daily briefing so the president can know what he *might* be facing.

It's the presidents fault he didn't sort through for only solid information.

He wasn't misled, he was misleading. They did their job. They kept him up to date with the info he needed. It's the presidents fault, and his administrations fault for not using good judgement and ethics.

[zigzag]

I like O'Reilly because even though he's often a sanctimonious bully and does as much spinning as anyone, he's at least capable of independent thought, unlike Sean "Get Me The RNC" Hume. And he can be funny, and refreshingly blunt.

Anyway, he said before the invasion that if no WMD were found, he would speak out about it, so he is. But he isn't really blaming them, so it's not exactly earth-shaking. It's more of the same "I admit it - it's the CIA's fault."

[theolein]

This one line stuck out for me:

Americans are a forgiving people and we all make mistakes

When I read that I thought two things:
1. Fat chance or have I been dreaming all these years when people have been slinging mud at one another over things that happened 30 years ago or even people who still get worked up about FDR.
2. I wonder what an Iraqi would say if he read that comment in the context of the many, many dead people in Iraq.

[RooneyX]

Thanks to the internet politicians can't take advantage of short term memories and rewrite history. We know full well the intel said no, inspectors said no and can do a quick search with Google to back it up. Passing the buck, rewriting the history of events and lying isn't going to work these days.

[Dudaev's Corpse]

Originally posted by theolein:
2. I wonder what an Iraqi would say if he read that comment in the context of the many, many dead people in Iraq.

Why don't you ask Saddam?

[gadster]

Originally posted by Dudaev's Corpse:
Why don't you ask Saddam?

No, why don't YOU ask an Iraq?

You DO know some don't you? The ones I've asked are plenty annoyed with the likes of you.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by gadster:
No, why don't YOU ask an Iraq?

You DO know some don't you? The ones I've asked are plenty annoyed with the likes of you.

I know dozens of Kurds who are happy. There are many Iraqis happy too. The vast majority. But here's the problem. Islamic terrorism was never in Iraq. Dictatorship was hard on Iraqis but strong border control kept Islamists out.

Now it's a hot bed for terrorists in the same way the US turned Afghanistan into the hotbed for terrorism. They're flowing into Iraq from everywhere. Then we've got the Shia coming to power. This is dreadful. They are on the side of Iranian Conservatives, which means reformists in Iran are going to have a very hard time now. They are also anti-Israeli and no doubt will turn their backs on the western force who have helped their rise to power.

Whose fault is this now?

No conspiracy theory here but one must look at GOP fundamentalists who strongly believe that Islam must attack Israel in order for a 'rapture' and 'Jesus Christ' to come about. Wealthy, cranky, eccentric and political, this movement has members not just at the Republican campaign level but also in the Pentagon and the White House. If they've manipulated the President and the White House's decision to go to war, not just to steal oil and other resources but also for religious reasons, then this is something that shouldn't be ignored. They aren't green aliens, they are troublesome idiotic people who really do exist and do have desires to see the middle-east explode in flames.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Dudaev's Corpse:
Why don't you ask Saddam?

Strangely, nothing new has been heard about Saddam since a few days after his capture.

[gadster]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
,<snip> 'rapture' and 'Jesus Christ' to come about. Wealthy, cranky, eccentric and political, this movement has members not just at the Republican campaign level but also in the Pentagon and the White House. <snip>

Houston, we have a problem.

PLEASE GET OUT THERE AND VOTE! Please . . . ?

[boots]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
No conspiracy theory here but one must look at GOP fundamentalists who strongly believe that Islam must attack Israel in order for a 'rapture' and 'Jesus Christ' to come about. Wealthy, cranky, eccentric and political, this movement has members not just at the Republican campaign level but also in the Pentagon and the White House. If they've manipulated the President and the White House's decision to go to war, not just to steal oil and other resources but also for religious reasons, then this is something that shouldn't be ignored. They aren't green aliens, they are troublesome idiotic people who really do exist and do have desires to see the middle-east explode in flames.

Off topic, but this really makes one rethink the Pat Robertson campaign. He didn't stand a chance, but he did compile one hell of a mailing list to build a coordinated political base. I kinda think this is one of the most effective sleeper campaigns in recent history. They have succeeded in reshaping contemporary Republican political strategy.

[UNTeMac]

Originally written by Bill O'Reilly:
Americans are a forgiving people and we all make mistakes. We are now living in an age of ideological demagoguery where honest mistakes are turned into lies by ruthless, dishonest individuals. It makes me sick.

*cough* Clinton Scandal...impeachment...*cough*