[BRussell]

This article in the LA Times describes the goal of an Operation Rescue group who moved to Kansas to try to drive out the abortion providers there. This goes beyond just protesting abortion. They intimidate, harass, stalk, talk to neighbors, and just generally try everything they can to ruin the lives of people who work, in any capacity, in Women's clinics.

Bent on more aggressive confrontation, Troy Newman, president of the antiabortion group Operation Rescue West, moved his family here from Southern California two years ago. He then persuaded half a dozen like-minded friends to join him.

Forces marshaled, he drew up the most far-reaching battle plan that abortion rights advocates have ever seen — legal, but deliberately invasive. He calls it the Year of Rebuke.

Over the next 12 months, Newman and his followers will point their arrows at everyone who works for Women's Health Care Services, from the chief physician to the armed security guards.

Photos of the mangled heads of fetuses will greet the receptionist at her favorite restaurant. Protesters will point out the nurse as she walks into the mall, the office manager as she heads into church. Every clinic employee can expect pickets at home, yellow arrows pointed at their front doors.

Newman will pick through clinic workers' trash to figure out where they do business; he'll trail them at a distance to learn their routines.

His goal is not just to make their lives uncomfortable. He wants to unsettle and disgust their friends and associates, so their hairstylists and their pharmacists, even their neighbors, make it clear they're not welcome in Wichita.

"If Josef Mengele came into a bank saying, 'Here are a few gold teeth I ripped out of the Jews before I gassed them,' the bank would be horrified. They'd say, 'I'm not taking your blood money.' That's the picture of abortionists that we have to paint," Newman said.

"This is a personal campaign. It's letting people know abortion is not abstract," he said. "There's a real person who holds the scalpel, and he lives next door to you."

Hardball tactics are nothing new in the abortion wars, even among activists sworn to hold only peaceful protests.

Abortion opponents photograph women entering clinics and post the pictures online. Warning of the "baby butchers" nearby, they send gruesome postcards to neighbors of clinic workers. They boycott construction firms building clinics. Activists have even trailed doctors through grocery stores, hissing, "How can you live with yourself?"

[Turias]

Have you seen Citizen Ruth? Not quite as bad as this, but almost.

[thunderous_funker]

Since 1993, seven clinic workers–including three doctors, two clinic employees, a clinic escort, and a security guard–have been murdered in the United_States. Seventeen attempted murders have also occurred since 1991. In fact, opponents of choice have directed over 4,100 reported acts of violence against abortion providers since 1977, including bombings, arsons, death threats, kidnappings, and assaults, as well as over 80,600 reported acts of disruption, including bomb threats and harassing calls.

Full report here.

But these groups are only a section of America's long and storied history of Christian terrorists.

Anyone remember the guy who started the "John 3:16" thing at sporting events? He is currently serving 3 life sentences for taking hostages and threatening to shoot down airplanes to bring attention to Jesus. In fact, he turned down a plea bargain deal that would have let him off with a 12 year sentence because he thought the trail would offer him a better bully pulpit for spreading his message.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Full report here.

But these groups are only a section of America's long and storied history of Christian terrorists.

Anyone remember the guy who started the "John 3:16" thing at sporting events? He is currently serving 3 life sentences for taking hostages and threatening to shoot down airplanes to bring attention to Jesus. In fact, he turned down a plea bargain deal that would have let him off with a 12 year sentence because he thought the trail would offer him a better bully pulpit for spreading his message.

Yet another group of people misunderstanding the 'thou shalt not kill' phrase in the Bible. Or over-interpreting it. Why aren't they vegitarians then eh?

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Full report here.

But these groups are only a section of America's long and storied history of Christian terrorists.

Anyone remember the guy who started the "John 3:16" thing at sporting events? He is currently serving 3 life sentences for taking hostages and threatening to shoot down airplanes to bring attention to Jesus. In fact, he turned down a plea bargain deal that would have let him off with a 12 year sentence because he thought the trail would offer him a better bully pulpit for spreading his message.

That's F'd up.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
That's F'd up.

Damn straight.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
That's F'd up.

Not half as F'd up as the people who consider him a hero and carry on his "good work".

In fact, I just saw someting on ESPN about "rainbow man" (Rollen Stewart) and they showed a bunch of his friends getting all weepy and talking about how he showed everyone how "one man really could make a difference".

So they carry on his great, great work of holding up signs at sporting events.

Background on him available here

Do you know how many websites, fan clubs and advocacy groups there are in this country that consider Christian terrorists like Paul Hill heroes? Check out their list of American heroes

[Lerkfish]

I'm still waiting for the conservatives to make the same comments about these protestors that they did against the war protestors.....nah, never happen. These violent protestors are right wing, by God. Anything they do is ok.....the hypocrisy is palpable.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
I'm still waiting for the conservatives to make the same comments about these protestors that they did against the war protestors.....nah, never happen. These violent protestors are right wing, by God. Anything they do is ok.....the hypocrisy is palpable.

I realize the point you're making, Lerk, but even the the most obnoxious anti-war or anti-WTO protesters are nothing like Army of God or Operation Rescue.

Even the tiny minority of anarchist punks who smashed the Starbucks in Seatle are paragons of virtue compared to the likes of these monstrous medevialists.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
I realize the point you're making, Lerk, but even the the most obnoxious anti-war or anti-WTO protesters are nothing like Army of God or Operation Rescue.

Even the tiny minority of anarchist punks who smashed the Starbucks in Seatle are paragons of virtue compared to the likes of these monstrous medevialists.

agreed, THAT was the point I actually AM making...these guys are worse exponentially than the peaceful antiwar protestors....they aren't even in the same league....ALL THE MORE REASON that if the conservatives get upset because antiwar protestors block traffic and think it would be ok to shoot them (as was suggested at the time), why are they curiously silent about the Army of God Operation Rescue? Obviously, because they are right wing and the conservatives are comfortable with their actions.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
I'm still waiting for the conservatives to make the same comments about these protestors that they did against the war protestors.....nah, never happen. These violent protestors are right wing, by God. Anything they do is ok.....the hypocrisy is palpable.

You sure have a vivid imagination. Because people choose not to comment on something, you project all sorts of delusional nonsense into it.

Fanatics of all stripe are arseholes. Violent war protestors who use 'peace' as an excuse for violence= arseholes. Abortion clinic bombers who use religion as an excuse for violence=arseholes. Terrorists in general who use religion, poverty, and disagreeing with the big bad US and the 'west' as an excuse for violence= arseholes.

Nuff said.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
You sure have a vivid imagination. Because people choose not to comment on something, you project all sorts of delusional nonsense into it.

Fanatics of all stripe are arseholes. Violent war protestors who use 'peace' as an excuse for violence= arseholes. Abortion clinic bombers who use religion as an excuse for violence=arseholes. Terrorists in general who use religion, poverty, and disagreeing with the big bad US and the 'west' as an excuse for violence= arseholes.

Nuff said.

I disagree with Lerk's suggestion that silence implies condoning such groups.

I also disgree with his implied and your directly stated moral equivalency argument.

I don't see how anyone could possibly equate even most destructive of WTO protesters with Army of God.

I suppose Lerk was trying to say if its considered ok to shoot anti-war protesters for blocking traffic (and I do remember that thread), where are the shooters to handle our Army of God problem?

I simply rather not go down that road. I don't consider a right/left or conservative/liberal issue.

And killing Army of God'ers won't solve the problem either. In fact, that just makes them "American Heroes" and martyrs in the eyes of these nutjobs. In fact, even the victims in the Paul Hill trial were suggesting that maybe Florida shouldn't execute him because they feared copy-cat violence once he was martyred--plenty of threats to do so have been reported and published.

On the greater issue of political violence by religious fanatics, I'd like to think that even a Left-wing Looney like me and a Gun-toking Right Winger like CRASH can agree on a policy of zero tolerance.

[BRussell]

What's interesting to me about these groups in my linked article is that what they're doing is, by all accounts, perfectly legal. Their plan isn't to kill people, just completely ruin their lives.

Is this appropriate political activity? Should it be legal?

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
I also disgree with his implied and your directly stated moral equivalency argument.

I don't see how anyone could possibly equate even most destructive of WTO protesters with Army of God.

I've explained already they are not morally equivalent. How many times or ways do I need to do that? because they are not morally equivalent IS MY POINT.

[Logic]

Where is the war? Where is the shock and awe? How many of them are on Guantanamo?

Oh, wait. I see.......

[Demonhood]

i don't think this is legal.

from this site

Consider, also, §95 of the Kansas Stalking Law, which defines a "course of conduct" as a "pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, evidencing a continuity of purpose and which would cause a reasonable person to suffer substantial emotional distress, and must actually cause substantial emotional distress to the person."

and from this site

In addition to 18 USC 875(c), Congress has also passed the Interstate Stalking Punishment and Prevention act of 1996[32]. Under this Act, it is illegal to travel across a state line with the intent to injure or harass another person or as a result of such travel to cause that person to reasonably fear for their safety.

sounds like the legal definition of stalking to me. but IANAL.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
I don't see how anyone could possibly equate even most destructive of WTO protesters with Army of God.

I equate the two in that they are both fanatical asses.

I suppose Lerk was trying to say if its considered ok to shoot anti-war protesters for blocking traffic (and I do remember that thread), where are the shooters to handle our Army of God problem?

First of all, perhaps Lerk needs to stop living his life on the forums? Some offhand comment someone said on the forum is NOT a real world issue- perhaps time to step back from computer for a few minutes and consider that? Trying to paint some offhand forum comment as some automagic 'conservative' position on anything in the real world, is just brainless. But then I expect no less many times from certain members of this forum. There IS NO group of people, conservative/liberal or otherwise with any legit platform advocating the gunning down of protestors or AOG nuts in the real world, therefore it's a NON-ISSUE.

The real issue is more along the lines of people DON'T have any right to harass other people, block traffic, block ports, toss bricks and rocks at people, etc. etc. in the name of 'peace' or anything else, nor do they have any right to do assholy things in the name of religion. Not appeaseniks. Not terrorists. Not AOG whackjobs. Not anyone.

I question people not for being silent about, but making excuses for and defending the violent actions of ANY of the above mentioned groups simply because it may jibe with their political views.

On the greater issue of political violence by religious fanatics, I'd like to think that even a Left-wing Looney like me and a Gun-toking Right Winger like CRASH can agree on a policy of zero tolerance.

On this we can indeed agree.

As for gun 'toking'? Why is it I'm getting a vision of the movie Platoon, and Willem Dafoe stuffing a smoke filled shotgun barrel in Charlie Sheen's mouth?

Not really my thing!

Maybe ask Spliffdaddy about that one!

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by BRussell:
What's interesting to me about these groups in my linked article is that what they're doing is, by all accounts, perfectly legal. Their plan isn't to kill people, just completely ruin their lives.

Is this appropriate political activity? Should it be legal?

Seems to me some of their behavior would be illegal under laws against 'stalking', but maybe only a few states have those? What about a general harassment charge? Defamation of character?

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
I equate the two in that they are both fanatical asses.

I still think there is a massive difference between "fanatical asses" who break windows and "fanatical asses" who murder doctors and clinic workers and threatend more with the same.

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
As for gun 'toking'? Why is it I'm getting a vision of the movie Platoon, and Willem Dafoe stuffing a smoke filled shotgun barrel in Charlie Sheen's mouth?

Not really my thing!

Maybe ask Spliffdaddy about that one!

Whoops!! Man I'm a terrible typist.

Although I suppose some enterprising stoner out there has perhaps made a shotgun into a bong. Spliffdaddy? Got some stories?

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
First of all, perhaps Lerk needs to stop living his life on the forums? Some offhand comment someone said on the forum is NOT a real world issue- perhaps time to step back from computer for a few minutes and consider that? Trying to paint some offhand forum comment as some automagic 'conservative' position on anything in the real world, is just brainless. But then I expect no less many times from certain members of this forum. There IS NO group of people, conservative/liberal or otherwise with any legit platform advocating the gunning down of protestors or AOG nuts in the real world, therefore it's a NON-ISSUE.

was this personal attack necessary to make your point?

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
was this personal attack necessary to make your point?

Grabbing a bowl of popcorn and a beer.
This is better than reality television.

[ ]P

[Dudaev's Corpse]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Grabbing a bowl of popcorn and a beer.
This is better than reality television.

[ ]P

MacNN rots your brains!

[stupendousman]

As for the John 3:16 thing...

Not everything good that is started by people who have either the wrong motivation, or are a little touched in the head, is bad simply via whatever wrong the person does or their intentions.

I don't see the pro-abortionists stopping supporting Planned Parenthood just because the founder of the organization that it grew from was trying to find a way to keep what she thought were filthy negroes from overpopulating the United States.

Nothing's perfect.

Also, whether you kill to stop abortion or to have an abortion, you're still killing (at least if you claim to take the ten commandments seriously). I think that most Christians probably realize that, and don't support nutjobs who do so. It's the same with those who support the protection of animals but shun the wackos who throw red paint on people wearing furs or break into research facilities and vandalize them in order to make a point about animal testing, or how an enviromentalist looks at someone like the Unibomber tried killing people in order to keep the planet free from further development. Pointing out the extremes in order to covertly malign those who you may not agree with (blaming Christianity or other beliefs because people who claim to espouse those beliefs do bad things) doesn't achieve much but make those who do it look small minded.

[pooka]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
I still think there is a massive difference between "fanatical asses" who break windows and "fanatical asses" who murder doctors and clinic workers and threatend more with the same.

Not as much as you think. I had a few run-ins with Mr. Hill & the Gang back when I lived in Pensacola. Like your average anarchist, they talked a lot of ****, like to get up in your face and tend to get all red while spitting out incoherent ******** at the top of their lungs. Once you start smashing their face with your fist they scream and cry pretty much like everybody else. Freaking commie anarchist didn't hesitate to run off and find a "pig" so they could press charges though.

Gawd, that reminds me of an incident in Mobile ten years ago. Me and a buddy were cutting through the Women's Clinic parking lot on our way to a pool hall. Bunch of these wackjobs were standing around with their pretty picture signs and yelling at the wall. One older gentleman asked what business we had at such a place. I told him that I was here to pick up my sister. He started with some speech about life or souls or some ****. I quickly interrupted him and stated that we thought very long and hard before deciding on an abortion. I just couldn't bear the thought of her having my baby before she started high school. That is just too young to be a parent.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
was this personal attack necessary to make your point?

As background to the origin of your non-issue lie that conservatives somehow 'think it would be okay to shoot protestors' yes, it was necessary.

Your beef is with a poster who said something to that effect (as if words posted on some message board were equivalent to the real ACTIONS of violent protestors anyway) yet you paint it in your biased way as 'conservatives' or a ‘conservative viewpoint’ in general to raise (yet another) of your false premises.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
I still think there is a massive difference between "fanatical asses" who break windows and "fanatical asses" who murder doctors and clinic workers and threatend more with the same.

Of course, and even moreso when one downplays all protestors as mere 'window breakers' and up-plays (? for lack of a better term at the moment) all anti-abortionists as murderers.

Obviously anyone who commits an action as strong as murder in the name of their political beliefs (and who the heck cares what side of the aisle) deserves the full punishment of the law for it.

I don't see any need to play this silly 'equivalence' game, except that the topic derailed into it based on a false premise.

People that feel they have some 'right' to break the law (to whatever extent) for whatever political reason, should be held accountable to whatever extent they break the law. As stated before, that includes all the various nutjob groups on all sides of the political spectrum, as well as terrorists. The silly game of "Well protesting this and committing thus and such crime isn't as bad as protesting that and committing this, that and the other crime..." is just a useless exercise if you ask me, an attempt to make something that needn’t be into some us vs. them pissing match.

You said yourself, this isn't a liberal vs. conservative issue, and I agree with you.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
ALL THE MORE REASON that if the conservatives get upset because antiwar protestors block traffic and think it would be ok to shoot them (as was suggested at the time), why are they curiously silent about the Army of God Operation Rescue?

Hmmm... As I seem to remember that I'm the conservative who suggested shooting the anti-war protestors, I suppose I'd better come clean as to why I've been curiously silent about the Army of God Operation Rescue discussed in this thread.

I was in bed. Asleep.
This sometimes happens when you guys can't keep to proper GMT and you carry on posting while us sensibly-timed folks are safely tucked up.

Anyways. Your wait's over Lerk.
I say let's shoot these protesters too.




Oh. And the suggestion about shooting the anti-war protesters was a joke. Sounds like you need to eat again Lerk.

[theolein]

Originally posted by pooka:
Not as much as you think. I had a few run-ins with Mr. Hill & the Gang back when I lived in Pensacola. Like your average anarchist, they talked a lot of ****, like to get up in your face and tend to get all red while spitting out incoherent ******** at the top of their lungs. Once you start smashing their face with your fist they scream and cry pretty much like everybody else. Freaking commie anarchist didn't hesitate to run off and find a "pig" so they could press charges though.

Gawd, that reminds me of an incident in Mobile ten years ago. Me and a buddy were cutting through the Women's Clinic parking lot on our way to a pool hall. Bunch of these wackjobs were standing around with their pretty picture signs and yelling at the wall. One older gentleman asked what business we had at such a place. I told him that I was here to pick up my sister. He started with some speech about life or souls or some ****. I quickly interrupted him and stated that we thought very long and hard before deciding on an abortion. I just couldn't bear the thought of her having my baby before she started high school. That is just too young to be a parent.

Your fine touch has always moved me to tears.

Pooka for president!

[DeathToWindows]

always keep the fools at the sharp end of a long stick.

and tell the anti-abortion protesters to bugger off.

[macvillage.net]

I met someone a few years ago, whose mother got an abortion because she was diagnosed with cancer (breast, stomach, lung... something in the chest cavity).

Needed therapy (obviously), that would put the child at risk. Delaying for several months... would not have been good either (obviously).

A lot of the above was done. Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible (depending where you live) to find anyone willing to prosecute, or even get a restraining order. Even handing out fliers outside her workplace.

Nothing could be done, as all of the above, is technically legal.


Harassment laws are very loosely written. Just because someone causes such a fuss over you your asked to leave a resturaunt or the cops will be called because of the disturbance, your workplace asks that you leave because to many employees are intimidated or offended by the display you caused outside the office... need to buy a gun to sleep in your own home.

Pretty sad, but this is Jesus taught us to do to others.



I always enjoyed reading the part of the bible where Jesus was mocking the fellows next to him on the cross for their crimes, and trying to get the romans to torture them even more. For some reason that's cut out of some bibles.


According to the CIA Factbook, over 75% are Christians. I'd venture to say, the true number of people who actually have read the teachings of Jesus is well under 20%. And followers are under 10%. Can anyone really prove otherwise?

[chris v]

Originally posted by pooka:
Not as much as you think. I had a few run-ins with Mr. Hill & the Gang back when I lived in Pensacola. Like your average anarchist, they talked a lot of ****, like to get up in your face and tend to get all red while spitting out incoherent ******** at the top of their lungs. Once you start smashing their face with your fist they scream and cry pretty much like everybody else. Freaking commie anarchist didn't hesitate to run off and find a "pig" so they could press charges though.

Gawd, that reminds me of an incident in Mobile ten years ago. Me and a buddy were cutting through the Women's Clinic parking lot on our way to a pool hall. Bunch of these wackjobs were standing around with their pretty picture signs and yelling at the wall. One older gentleman asked what business we had at such a place. I told him that I was here to pick up my sister. He started with some speech about life or souls or some ****. I quickly interrupted him and stated that we thought very long and hard before deciding on an abortion. I just couldn't bear the thought of her having my baby before she started high school. That is just too young to be a parent.

Post. Of. Week.

CV

[Saetre]

Originally posted by BRussell:
What's interesting to me about these groups in my linked article is that what they're doing is, by all accounts, perfectly legal. Their plan isn't to kill people, just completely ruin their lives.

Is this appropriate political activity? Should it be legal?

Social pressure is the purest form of democrasy. IMHO

[BlackGriffen]

I think that the display of mangled corpses is an obscenity far worse than a nekkid man or woman. If we have laws that make "public indecency" illegal, then this should certainly fall in that class, more so that n00dity.

Next, the harassment issue. Even if they can't make a criminal matter out of it, surely they should be able to get civil redress. Freedom of speech is one thing, but following someone around, saying the same thing over and over again, is certainly not done with the intent to communicate, but to harass.

Last, but certainly not least, turnabout is fair play. Find out the people who sponsor these whack jobs and pull a little social sabotage on them.

The rest of the actions I could suggest are, ahem, less than legal, so I won't mention them.

BlackGriffen

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Saetre:
Social pressure is the purest form of democrasy. IMHO

Yeah, but it just seems to me that they're going too far. If these were Hollywood celebrities, rather than real people, there would be congressional hearings and laws changed immediately. It just seems like stalking and invasion of privacy when they go into their personal lives in that way. But, from what the article says, what they're doing is legal.

Even if you're against abortion, doesn't what they're doing just seem really obnoxious? What if there were anti-war protesters doing this to military men and women - interrupting them while they're at a restaurant and giving them pictures of dead Iraqis. Sending leaflets to their neighbors with pictures of decapitated Iraqis and calling them murderers. Following them through grocery stores. Etc.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Saetre:
Social pressure is the purest form of democrasy. IMHO

This sounds like much more than "social pressure". They are getting as close to terrorizing these people as they legally can. A few people opposed to abortion have already stepped over the line; I won't be surprised to see more and more cross the line between "social pressure" and terrorism to satisfy the demands of their beliefs.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by BRussell:
If these were Hollywood celebrities, rather than real people

Interesting dichotomy.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Yeah, but it just seems to me that they're going too far. If these were Hollywood celebrities, rather than real people, there would be congressional hearings and laws changed immediately. It just seems like stalking and invasion of privacy when they go into their personal lives in that way. But, from what the article says, what they're doing is legal.

Even if you're against abortion, doesn't what they're doing just seem really obnoxious? What if there were anti-war protesters doing this to military men and women - interrupting them while they're at a restaurant and giving them pictures of dead Iraqis. Sending leaflets to their neighbors with pictures of decapitated Iraqis and calling them murderers. Following them through grocery stores. Etc.

That's the problem.

Or if it were people pointing out racial conservatives, pro-war, etc.

There would be restraining orders, and possibly charges given.

But because it's conservative backed. It's pretty much immune until direct physical harm takes place.


Got to admit. It's funny how someone with a "pro life" shirt can snipe a bunch of people from the shrubs outside an abortion clinic. And have a bunch of Christians supporting him for fuffilling Gods wishes... yea. That was in the Bible as well.



It's not christianity.

Yet another case of people pissing me off, by hiding their own personal hatred/convictions in christianity.

People seem to justify everything in the name of religion. It's pretty sad they can't stand on their own two feet.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by Saetre:
Social pressure is the purest form of democrasy. IMHO

Yeah! Mobs rule!

Back when I worked in theatres I got yelled at by an anti-abortion loon twice a week for four and a half years (Tuesday mornings and Thursday afternoons). He kept his appointment erm... religiously. Anyone in theatre blues was fair game. He'd yell at cardiac surgeons, orderlies, cleaners... anyone in blues.

Loser.

Of course his main victims were the stressed out ladies going into the women's hospital (99.5/100 of whom were not there for abortions).

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Yeah! Mobs rule!

Back when I worked in theatres I got yelled at by an anti-abortion loon twice a week for four and a half years (Tuesday mornings and Thursday afternoons). He kept his appointment erm... religiously. Anyone in theatre blues was fair game. He'd yell at cardiac surgeons, orderlies, cleaners... anyone in blues.

Loser.

Of course his main victims were the stressed out ladies going into the women's hospital (99.5/100 of whom were not there for abortions).

Yep. I've seen people looking for teenage volunteers to go to the hospital and do that.