[Spliffdaddy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/europe/3528439.stm


The French railways have reassured passengers that there is no cause for alarm, but the government has been criticised for keeping the threat secret.

It had urged the media not to report on the case, and only confirmed the group's alleged existence on Wednesday.

"It's not right that the French people weren't informed about this from the moment it was being taken seriously," Jean-Claude Delarue of the Federation of Transport Users passengers' group told BBC News Online.

Tell us again, France, how appeasement fights terrorism.

Looks like your government's actions have pissed-off some folks. Better hurry up and change those government policies that the terrorists don't approve of.

[peacenik]It's your own fault, ya know[/peacenik]

edited:

lol, the French were actually planning to give them the ransom money - but couldn't locate the drop-off point.

[Developer]

The French, those stupid peacenicks should have nuked those terrorists.

[ghost_flash]

I thought this was going to address their real fight on terrorism. Body Odor.

Oh well.

The French can have it both ways, they can surrender by raising their arms, and kill the terrorists at the same time.

[John F. Smith]

French rail workers go on strike so much that it would probably be pretty easy to plant a bomb on the rails. This is definitely a risk that has to be addressed.

However, millions of Muslims living in France probably rely on French trains, and the country is known for having (relatively) good relations with the middle east, so I would be surprised if they became the target of this kind of attack.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I thought this was going to address their real fight on terrorism. Body Odor.

Oh well.

The French can have it both ways, they can surrender by raising their arms, and kill the terrorists at the same time.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by John F. Smith:
However, millions of Muslims living in France probably rely on French trains, and the country is known for having (relatively) good relations with the middle east, so I would be surprised if they became the target of this kind of attack.

Note: The Scarf ban. If there were a terrorist attack by Al Queda on France, this would be their excuse. If I recall correctly Bin Laden - or one of his spokespeople - condemned the French for it a while back....

[ghost_flash]

[John F. Smith]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Note: The Scarf ban. If there were a terrorist attack by Al Queda on France, this would be their excuse. If I recall correctly Bin Laden - or one of his spokespeople - condemned the French for it a while back....

I forgot about the scarf ban. Good point.

[Orion27]

Can anyone imagine a scarf ban in the United States?

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Orion27:
Can anyone imagine a scarf ban in the United States?

No! I shudder at the thought.~!

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Orion27:
Can anyone imagine a scarf ban in the United States?

lol, I doubt that could ever happen.

[angaq0k]

This threath from AZF is more in relation with local issues in France:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/sto...162483,00.html

It does not appear that Al-Qaeda has anything to do with it at this time.

Although I have not followed the news much in the last few years, I believe there is a lot of resentment in France either because of political corruption or corporate scandals. A lot of people are dissatisfied.

The AZF group manifesto was described as confused and complex ideas and recriminations. It is possible that these are only petty criminals trying to benefit from a wave of dissatisfaction.

My very humble 2 cents.

[lil'babykitten]

Yep there are local issues/problems in France right now. They've got local and international problems.

[IceBreaker]

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by IceBreaker:

LOL

True! There is that saying in French...

"Impossible n'est pas français".

From Napoléon.

But I guess some manage to replace "Impossible" with "Défaite".

LOL

[nforcer]

Originally posted by IceBreaker:

[angaq0k]

From: http://www.cdi.org/program/document....page=index.cfm


Quote:

The English word ‘terrorism’ comes from the regime de la terreur that prevailed in France from 1793-1794._ Originally an instrument of the state, the regime was designed to consolidate the power of the newly-installed revolutionary government, protecting it from elements considered ‘subversive.’_ Always value-laden, terrorism was, initially, a positive term._ The French revolutionary leader, Maximilien Robespierre, viewed it as vital if the new French Republic was to survive its infancy, proclaiming in 1794 that: "Terror is nothing other than justice, prompt, severe, inflexible; it is therefore an emanation of virtue; it is not so much a special principle as it is a consequence of the general principle of democracy applied to our country's most urgent needs."

[tie]

Originally posted by Developer:
The French, those stupid peacenicks should have nuked those terrorists.

They should have bombed Iraq.

[rambo47]

Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?

A; No one knows. It's never been done.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by rambo47:
Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?

A; No one knows. It's never been done.

Along those lines: Does anyone here know how many Frenchmen are in the Foreign Legion?

Answer: Zero. None. They are given citizenship of France after 3 years in the FL. All those brave Legionaires who fought over the years for France... makes one wonder.

France not only smells, it stinks too.

[OreoCookie]

This is hardly terror. Before 9/11, this would be called what it is: somebody trying to get some ransom money. Had it in Germany, too, a couple years back.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Orion27:
Can anyone imagine a scarf ban in the United States?

Oh sure just give homosexuals another reason to get pissy.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
This is hardly terror. Before 9/11, this would be called what it is: somebody trying to get some ransom money. Had it in Germany, too, a couple years back.

Somebody threatening to blow up passenger trains isn't terrorism?

HAHAHAHAHA

spare me.

They even found a bomb a few months ago.

It's Terrorism - with a capital 'T'

You want to wait until a train explodes to call it terrorism?

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
It's Terrorism - with a capital 'T'

You want to wait until a train explodes to call it terrorism?

zing! wrong again! in order for it to be terrorism, there would have to be at least some kind of ideological or political goal involved (which in this case isn't sure at all). the appropriate term here is "blackmail" or "extortion" (both lower case).

boy spliffster, you really need to work on that high school diploma (or at least finish fourth grade english), it's showing. if you want, you can start by looking up the word "malapropism", - but make sure to lay off the bong in the meantime, or else you might forget the word's meaning again.

oh, and as far as the french are concerned, we all know what their problem is. they don't have a word for "entrepreneur"!

LLOOlllOOLLolll!1!1!!!1

[Zimphire]

Zing indeed.

Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Zing indeed.

Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

nice <snip> there, ya little sneak.

Terrorism_-_As defined by the FBI, "the unlawful use of force against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objectives". This definition includes three elements: (1) Terrorist activities are illegal and involve the use of force. (2) The actions are intended to intimidate or coerce. (3) The actions are committed in support of political or social objectives.

[theolein]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Along those lines: Does anyone here know how many Frenchmen are in the Foreign Legion?

Answer: Zero. None. They are given citizenship of France after 3 years in the FL. All those brave Legionaires who fought over the years for France... makes one wonder.

France not only smells, it stinks too.

Mmmmm, I wonder what that little word, "Foreign" is doing there before the word, "Legion"?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
nice <snip> there, ya little sneak.

No snip

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-b...;x=15&amp;y=15

Terrorism_-_As defined by the FBI, "the unlawful use of force against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objectives". This definition includes three elements: (1) Terrorist activities are illegal and involve the use of force. (2) The actions are intended to intimidate or coerce. (3) The actions are committed in support of political or social objectives.

Right, meaning there are more than one definition.

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Right, meaning there are more than one definition.

nope. extortion and blackmail aren't the same as terrorism. that's why there are different words and different definitions.

Is there a definition of terrorism?

Even though most people can recognize terrorism when they see it, experts have had difficulty coming up with an ironclad definition. The State Department defines terrorism as "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience." In another useful attempt to produce a definition, Paul Pillar, a former deputy chief of the CIA's Counterterrorist Center, argues that there are four key elements of terrorism:


It is premeditated—planned in advance, rather than an impulsive act of rage.
It is political—not criminal, like the violence that groups such as the mafia use to get money, but designed to change the existing political order.
It is aimed at civilians—not at military targets or combat-ready troops.

from here

[Zimphire]

Again, that may be the "technical" term for it.

But Spliff did not use it incorrectly. Because it also shares that definition.

There is no argument here.

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Again, that may be the "technical" term for it.

But Spliff did not use it incorrectly. Because it also shares that definition.

It is political—not criminal, like the violence that groups such as the mafia use to get money, but designed to change the existing political order.

Terrorismus (v. französ.: terrorisme bzw. lateinisch terror, der Schrecken) ist die Einstellung und Verhaltensweise, politische Ziele durch eine bestimmte Form von Gewaltanwendung, durch Terror, durchzusetzen. Auch wird manchmal die Gesamtheit der Personen, die Terrorakte verüben, als Terrorismus bezeichnet (der internationale Terrorismus).

TERRORISME
DEFINITION

Le terrorisme est essentiellement une stratégie destinée à déséquilibrer un pays ou un régime en utilisant la subversion et la violence sur un milieu ou une institution en crise, afin de contribuer au désordre. Il est une déviation de la lutte politique; il en constitue la forme primitive, le stade inférieur.

Le but visé n'est pas de tuer des hommes, ni de détruire des biens , mais de frapper l'opinion publique .

[Zimphire]

Oh so making it bold makes it more right?

Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

Unless you can somehow prove MW are a bunch of lying scumbags..

Which would be even silly for you to even act like you would make an attempt.

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Unless you can somehow prove MW are a bunch of lying scumbags...

nah, i'll leave that up to macnstein , the incomplete definition up to mw...and being a "lying scumbag" up to you! how's that? sounds good.

[OreoCookie]

Cook, now I can spell terrorism. With capital "T" of course.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
how's that?

It sounds 100% totally and completely silly.

[Troll]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Note: The Scarf ban. If there were a terrorist attack by Al Queda on France, this would be their excuse. If I recall correctly Bin Laden - or one of his spokespeople - condemned the French for it a while back....

Zarqawi mentioned this I think. He said something like in France you aren't free to dress modestly. That is of course wrong. In France, a schoolgirl is not entitled to Zarqawi's interpretation of modest dressing while she is in a public school building. Nor is a jewish schooboy entitled to wear a yarmulka or a Christian schoolgirl entitled to wear a large cross in a schoolbuilding.

People seem to have the impression that the ban applies to all Muslims in France and that you can't wear a headscarf anywhere. The fact is that there are more headscarves being worn in France than any other country in Europe and that France is doing more to integrate Muslims into French society than any other European country is. My problem with the ban is that they seem to have stopped trying to get rid of religion in state matters. There are a number of other areas where they could get rid of Catholic influence.

As for terrorism in France, and by way of a general response, the French "Struggle" against terrorism (that's the word that they use rather than "war") started a long time ago. The French are generally recognised as THE experts on islamic fundamentalist terrorism. You might recall that they succesfully defended France against an attempt to fly a jetliner into the Eiffel Tower years before Al Qaeda succeded on 9/11. French terrorism experts have provided many of the breakthroughs in prosecuting 9/11. There have been many foiled attacks (like a number on the US embassy in Paris) and some might recall the sucessful St. Michel RER station bombing by Algerian terrorists. More recently Al Qaeda took out a busload of French engineers in Pakistan. France also has a constant battle against ETA and Corsican terrorists. And of course many groups have planned to take out a TGV (bullet train) either in it's SNCF livery or in Eurostar colours. So it's no surprise that there was a threat to the rail network and the fact that they managed to inspect every kilometre of track in that space of time suggests to me that the French deserve their excellent reputation for succesfully battling terrorism.

[chalk_outline]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
lol, the French were actually planning to give them the ransom money but couldn't locate the drop-off point.

And the fat slob Americans couldn't get to the drop-off because it involved climbing four flights of stairs.

These stupid ****ing jabs at others really help.

</slender pizza loving American>

[villalobos]

Originally posted by IceBreaker:

Welcome to last year....

villa

[clt2]

Originally posted by Troll:
As for terrorism in France, and by way of a general response, the French "Struggle" against terrorism (that's the word that they use rather than "war") started a long time ago. The French are generally recognised as THE experts on islamic fundamentalist terrorism.

Yes, and it's worth noting that their struggle did not include decreasing civil liberties or covering up naked statues.

GIGN at Marseilles Airport

Here's a story about SPETSNAZ:

In 1985, terrorists stormed the Soviet embassy in Beirut and abducted several Russian officials, demanding that the Soviet ally Syria stop its efforts to drive Palestinians supporting Arafat out of Lebanon.

Then Soviet president Gorbachev was quickly able to get Syria to stop its operation, but the kidnappers were slow in releasing the hostages. The SPETSNAZ quickly went into action, rushing to Beirut and giving the extremists 48 hours to free their people. When the terrorists let the deadline pass, the SPETSNAZ actually kidnapped four of the kidnappers and sent one of their decapitated heads in a bag to the terrorist chief, promising further unrestrained action.

The captives were quickly freed.

[clt2]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Along those lines: Does anyone here know how many Frenchmen are in the Foreign Legion?

Answer: Zero.

Untrue. Just because your president is a lying monkey, that doesn't mean you have to follow in his tracks.

France not only smells, it stinks too.

In my experience Americans (who are fat and eat nothing but fast food) smell and stink much worse. Considering the amount of American Viagra spam I get, Americans are impotent too.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by clt2:
Untrue. Just because your president is a lying monkey, that doesn't mean you have to follow in his tracks.

Silly and hateful all in the same sentence.

Not to mention dishonest.

[clt2]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Silly and hateful all in the same sentence.

Not to mention dishonest.

101% silly. Stop projecting.

[Zimphire]

I considering calling someone a liar pretty hateful.

esp when said person doesn't have any base to back it on.

Baseless accusations? Yes.

Facts? No.

Some people keep forgetting this. They usually don't like being reminded either.

[clt2]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
esp when said person doesn't have any base to back it on.

Assumption is the mother of all fxckups.

There are no Frenchmen in the Foreign Legion except for Officers. Should a French national (Born in France) wish to join the Legion then they will have their identity changed automatically. Their nationality will be changed to either a French Canadian or a French Swiss or a Belgium National.

Nearly 75% of recruits wish to have their identities changed for one reason or another.

Once a Legionnaire has reached three year’s service he may request that he rectify his name (to revert back the original name at the point of joining). A Legionnaire who has gone through this process is permitted to wear any foreign medals from previous military service. He will also be granted permission to leave the country during permission.

It's either liar or ignorant moron. Since I don't think the original poster is an ignorant moron, that only leaves liar. However, it's possible that I'm not seeing a third option here.

[thunderous_funker]

How quaint. More French-bashing.

Let's see. The Bush measure of winning the war on terror seems to be none of our buildings are blowing up. By that standard, France is doing pretty ****ing well.

I suggest the peanut gallery should wait for the number of Parisians incinerated in fiery cataclysms to approach the number of New Yorkers incinerated in fiery cataclysms before they get too sanctimonious about it.

[Spliffdaddy]

or not.

[Developer]

Let's try to be a little bit serious for a moment.

France had to deal with terrorism far longer than the US. And they are doing pretty well apparently. Someone mentioned the attack to the Eiffel tower (hadn't heard of that before); I remember the prevention of the bombing of the christmas market in Strasbourg a few years ago. Of course you don't hear about this. "No bombs explode in Strasbourg" doesn't make news at CNN. That doesn't mean that France is ineffective in fighting terrorism. Au contraire.

Second, if you think France' strategy is appeasement, you must have never been there. Especially, you haven't seen French customs yet.

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
or not.

This case is a blackmailer. So far we can all agree. In my definition this isn't terrorism. It lacks the typical political motivation, but more importantly: the blackmailer doesn't appear to have any serious interest to execute an attack. One bomb was installed, but he told the police where it was. This doesn't sound like a terrorist who wants to scare people to change their opinion over some political topic; it sounds more like a blackmailer who wants to prove that he is serious.

Anyway, it's not that important for the topic at hand how one categorizes this case. You criticize the French police tactics as being "appeasement". So I would like to hear how you would investigate this case. Seriously.

[Troll]

By way of an anecdote; I went to a shop near Bastille on Saturday morning. As I was walking towards the shop, I saw a police car stop next to the bus stop outside the shop and start asking people questions. As I got closer, the two cops jumped out of the car and within a few seconds, they'd sealed off the road and had moved everyone back. I couldn't get to the shop so I bought a pain au chocolat and became a gawker. Within two minutes, a bomb disposal truck arrived on the scene and 2 policemen went over to a large togbag which had apparently been abandoned at the bus stop. One of them gingerly place a little cable on the bag and some kind of protective blanket next to it and then a few seconds later, they blew the bag to smithereens!

The bag was full of old clothes now shredded into 5cm x 5cm squares which they then placed in the dustbin (which is still a plastic bag on a flimsy frame; all real dustbins having been removed on 9/11). I was impressed. Not only did the cops apparently spot the bag on their own, but they dealt with it pronto!

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
nah, i'll leave that up to macnstein , the incomplete definition up to mw...and being a "lying scumbag" up to you! how's that? sounds good.

Here's one for you:

ter·ror·ism __ _

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

"Often" does not mean "only". If someone threatens to blow up a train full of civilians unless he/she gets a bag of money, it absolutely is terrorism. Terror is a state of intense fear or something that inspires such fear. That is what the "extortionists" are preying on. Heck, even look at the Webster definition of terror:

terror

1 : a state of intense fear
2 a : one that inspires fear : SCOURGE b : a frightening aspect <the terrors of invasion> c : a cause of anxiety : WORRY d : an appalling person or thing; especially : BRAT
3 : REIGN OF TERROR
4 : violence (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands

[Sven G]

The only defect of France (as a nation) is (or was) its grandeur deliriousness: BTW, what big nation has been immune from that? The UK, the US, and so on...? None of them, of course.

The French are great people (as are others), anyway: that's the only thing that counts.