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Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 09:10 AM

Reading this link MIGHT just lower your I.Q.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113762,00.html

Lerkfish · Mar 10, 2004, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Reading this link MIGHT just lower your I.Q.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113762,00.html

doesn't Fox news lower your IQ automatically? (/joke)

anyways, I believe these people are very confused. The plate says nothing about the republican party.

However, the more valid criticism, that it is not really an environmental design and more a political design is very correct, its just that it doesn't appear to be "hawking" one side over the other.

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 09:17 AM

Funny thing is Lerk, the new design is selling BETTER than the old hippy designs, therefore putting more money into environmental issues.

These people just can't stand the site of the American flag. Or anything patriotic.

They really need to just GTHO.

SimeyTheLimey · Mar 10, 2004, 09:23 AM

I just moved back to Virginia. They have a couple of designs that tempted me for no better reason than they would wind liberals up on the Beltway.

In the end I went with the plain one. I guess I'm cheap.

Lerkfish · Mar 10, 2004, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Funny thing is Lerk, the new design is selling BETTER than the old hippy designs, therefore putting more money into environmental issues.

These people just can't stand the site of the American flag. Or anything patriotic.

They really need to just GTHO.

"Get The Hell Out"? is that what that stands for?

just curious. Never seen that one before.

regardless, I don't personally see the new design as NONenvironmental necessarily. I agree the norm would be like the eagle flying or whatever, but this is really only interesting in the perception that its republican, which I find odd.

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 09:49 AM

Well they really couldn't say "I don't want the American flag on there because I am unpatriotic and think America sucks because it's not the socialist cesspool I want it to be"

So they have to use the Bush excuse.

I've talked to many people that cannot stand any form of patriotism being shown. They hate when they drive by and see someone displaying the American flag. It repulses them.

But yet they still live here and feed off of America.

fromthecloud · Mar 10, 2004, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Well they really couldn't say "I don't want the American flag on there because I am unpatriotic and think America sucks because it's not the socialist cesspool I want it to be"

So they have to use the Bush excuse.

I've talked to many people that cannot stand any form of patriotism being shown. They hate when they drive by and see someone displaying the American flag. It repulses them.

But yet they still live here and feed off of America.

Yes, but they have the right to do that. It's what makes America great. If we kicked everyone out who wasn't patriotic, we'd be the biggest hippocrites on the planet.

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by fromthecloud:
Yes, but they have the right to do that. It's what makes America great. If we kicked everyone out who wasn't patriotic, we'd be the biggest hippocrites on the planet.

Oh yes they do have the right to think and say stuff like that in our great country.

That is the irony of this all.

Send them to communist China for a year. I bet most come back with a different tude.

Lerkfish · Mar 10, 2004, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Oh yes they do have the right to think and say stuff like that in our great country.

That is the irony of this all.

Send them to communist China for a year. I bet most come back with a different tude.

What's actually ironic is you want to punish free speech by deportation, but THEY are the unamerican ones.

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:

What's actually ironic is you want to punish free speech by deportation, but THEY are the unamerican ones.

Lerk do you actually think I want to start shipping these people off to China?

I was making a point. If they lived in China for awhile, I bet their tudes would change.

lil'babykitten · Mar 10, 2004, 10:44 AM

So if you're American and you don't like seeing the flag waved in your face everywhere you're anti-american and you should be deported?

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 10:44 AM

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
So if you're American and you don't like seeing the flag waved in your face everywhere

This brings me to this question. Why would the American flag being displayed bother you in the first place?

UNTeMac · Mar 10, 2004, 10:53 AM

Bit off topic but we see a lot of stories like this from Fox News. They always post the silly liberals out there who whine about things like this when the majority of us (liberals) are clear-thinking principled people.

I think the NY Times does the opposite, posting more stories about the crazy part of the right, rather than real, reasoned arguments....just an observation, carry on.

Lerkfish · Mar 10, 2004, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Lerk do you actually think I want to start shipping these people off to China?

I was making a point. If they lived in China for awhile, I bet their tudes would change.

why? how so?

I imagine if I didn't want to see an american flag on a license plate, a trip to china would not convince me otherwise.
However, I might learn how to use chopsticks better.

Lerkfish · Mar 10, 2004, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
This brings me to this question. Why would the American flag being displayed bother you in the first place?

Why would not wanting to see it displayed bother you in the second place?

Troll · Mar 10, 2004, 11:31 AM

Flying the flag is nationalistic. Nationalism and patriotism are not the same thing.

SimeyTheLimey · Mar 10, 2004, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by Troll:
Flying the flag is nationalistic. Nationalism and patriotism are not the same thing.

Flying the flag is patriotic. Patriotism and nationalism aren't the same thing.

MindFad · Mar 10, 2004, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:

POT, MEET KETTLE! [/LOL ZIM]

You are not your State's license plate. Really, just get over it.

Lerkfish · Mar 10, 2004, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Flying the flag is patriotic. Patriotism and nationalism aren't the same thing.

The flag is really just a symbol. A traitor can fly one just as easily as a patriot.

I am of the same opinion that people who object to flag burning, and people who object to this license plate, on either side of the political spectrum, allow themselves to be offended and manipulated emotionally by a graphic design.

nonhuman · Mar 10, 2004, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
This brings me to this question. Why would the American flag being displayed bother you in the first place?

Because variety is the spice of life, and when everyone's got the US flag on their car/house/boat/hat/jacket/forehead it just gets annoying. Also, I just don't particularly like it aesthetically. I fly the Gadsden flag.

But maybe I'm just a right-wing liberal nut...

SimeyTheLimey · Mar 10, 2004, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
The flag is really just a symbol. A traitor can fly one just as easily as a patriot.

I am of the same opinion that people who object to flag burning, and people who object to this license plate, on either side of the political spectrum, allow themselves to be offended and manipulated emotionally by a graphic design.

To incorporate your point, and to make myself more clear: flying the flag is motivated by feelings of patriotism, or designed to communicate patriotism. People shouldn't assume it is nationalism or give it that deliberately negative connotation.

Of course, it could just be look-at-the-pretty colors. But I think it's generally safe to assume that a symbol symbolizes something.

BTW, I support the rights of people to burn the flag -- just as I also support the right of people offended by the action to give the flag burners a piece of their minds. Free speech for all.

andi*pandi · Mar 10, 2004, 12:52 PM

well, yes, it's a tenuous jump from an eagle with a flag to a bush conspiracy. I'm sure it's selling well because people want the flag, or want to look like they are patriotic. Just like all those flag stickers that popped up on people's cars after 9/11, if you didn't have one you were suspect. Then Chinese restaurants started handing out flag stickers so they wouldn't be suspect. Those stickers were frickin' everywhere.

I respect the flag, waving in the breeze, in front of government buildings, schools, and people's houses. I am a little leery of its commercial uses on everything from tshirts to pins to baseball hats. Do we really need to wear our heart on our sleeve?

But hey, more money for the environment, so

!

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
why? how so?

I imagine if I didn't want to see an american flag on a license plate, a trip to china would not convince me otherwise.
However, I might learn how to use chopsticks better.

No Lerk, these people get bothered by any forms of nationalism

I was meaning, if they think they have it bad here, let them live in China for awhile.

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
Why would not wanting to see it displayed bother you in the second place?

I could care less either way. I am not the one getting upset over the flag not being or being somewhere. Thanks for that non-answer spin.

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by nonhuman:
Because variety is the spice of life, and when everyone's got the US flag on their car/house/boat/hat/jacket/forehead it just gets annoying. Also, I just don't particularly like it aesthetically. I fly the Gadsden flag.

So you are saying these people don't like it because of aesthetics? Hahahahahah!

nonhuman · Mar 10, 2004, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
So you are saying these people don't like it because of aesthetics? Hahahahahah!

No, I'm saying that I don't.

And please, please, please, send me to China for a year. That would be awesome. I love China. Although I wasn't planning on going there for more than 2 months at a time until late '05.

But I agree with you that it's incredibly stupid to draw some sort of connection between the flag and Bush other than that the flag represents the US and Bush is the current president of the US. It's no more connected to him than it was to Clinton or than it will be to whomever follows Bush.

andi*pandi · Mar 10, 2004, 01:13 PM

what's probably ironic about this is the folks buying the eagle/flag plate probably don't give a damn about the environment.

Lerkfish · Mar 10, 2004, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No Lerk, these people get bothered by any forms of nationalism

I was meaning, if they think they have it bad here, let them live in China for awhile.

actually, you're not making much sense.
1. The people were not objecting to nationalism. They were objecting (mistakenly) to what they perceived as the state favoring one political party over another. That has to do with perceived electioneering and favoritism. It has nothing to do with Nationalism or patriotism. It so happens they were wrong in the content of their objection, but you are also wrong to mischaracterize the origin of their objection.
2. There was nothing to indicate they thought they had it bad here, and there is nothing to indicate spending time in China would affect their opinion of america in any way. As I said, they felt the state was electioneering in favor of one political party over another.....spending time in China would not undo that perception. Perhaps, explaining to them they are mistaken would do more good.
3. Additionally, it makes no sense to consider China an appropriate "attitude adjustment" concentration camp to re-educate US citizens that aren't patriotic enough for you. China has its own re-education efforts to bend the will of their own citizens to conformity and nationalism....towards CHINA. One wonders that you would favor the ability of communism to brainwash americans to be more patriotic to be an appropriate or even useful mandate.

nonhuman · Mar 10, 2004, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
3. Additionally, it makes no sense to consider China an appropriate "attitude adjustment" concentration camp to re-educate US citizens that aren't patriotic enough for you. China has its own re-education efforts to bend the will of their own citizens to conformity and nationalism....towards CHINA. One wonders that you would favor the ability of communism to brainwash americans to be more patriotic to be an appropriate or even useful mandate.

He's actually got a good point about China. Having spent time there (and in other non-rich countries) I can say that being there definitely does change one's perspective on life, and makes them appreciate what they have more.

However, I would argue that it's not necessarily going to have the same effect that he thinks it is. Seeing how much better my life is than a significant portion of the world's population didn't make me love the US for spoiling me rotten, it made me appalled that people can be so selfish and pig-headed to claim some sort of high moral ground when they do *nothing* to help others.

So, in the sense that wanting to spread freedom freedom and equality to people less fortunate than myself is patriotic, it made me more patriotic. In the sense that being disgusted with modern society, and particularly the hypocrisy of modern American society is not patriotic, it made me significantly less patriotic.

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
actually, you're not making much sense.
1. The people were not objecting to nationalism. They were objecting (mistakenly) to what they perceived as the state favoring one political party over another. That has to do with perceived electioneering and favoritism. It has nothing to do with Nationalism or patriotism. It so happens they were wrong in the content of their objection, but you are also wrong to mischaracterize the origin of their objection.

No Lerk, I never said that is why they were objecting. I said these type of people usually can't stand the SITE of the American flag. I've ran into them before.

I never once said that this was the reason that went against this.

2. There was nothing to indicate they thought they had it bad here, and there is nothing to indicate spending time in China would affect their opinion of america in any way. As I said, they felt the state was electioneering in favor of one political party over another.....spending time in China would not undo that perception. Perhaps, explaining to them they are mistaken would do more good.

Again, yes they DO feel they have it bad because BUSH is in office. They feel they are being swindled. They believe Bush is taking away their rights.

3. Additionally, it makes no sense to consider China an appropriate "attitude adjustment" concentration camp to re-educate US citizens that aren't patriotic enough for you.

Heh that was pathetic Lerk.

China has its own re-education efforts to bend the will of their own citizens to conformity and nationalism....towards CHINA. One wonders that you would favor the ability of communism to brainwash americans to be more patriotic to be an appropriate or even useful mandate.

One would figure one wouldn't actually think I was being serious when I made such comments.

So Lerk, again I ask. Do you think I actually want to ship people to China?

Of course not.

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by nonhuman:
He's actually got a good point about China. Having spent time there (and in other non-rich countries) I can say that being there definitely does change one's perspective on life, and makes them appreciate what they have more.

And that was the only point i was trying to make. Thanks for getting it.

andi*pandi · Mar 10, 2004, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
They feel they are being swindled. They believe Bush is taking away their rights. [/B]

wait, he isn't?

Lerkfish · Mar 10, 2004, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by andi*pandi:
wait, he isn't?

well, he IS, of course, but not because of those license plates.

Krusty · Mar 10, 2004, 05:40 PM

The "education" tags in my state have a big apple on the left hand side. If it had a bite taken out of it, I'd be the first to get one that read THNK DFRN

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by andi*pandi:
wait, he isn't?

No

Lerkfish · Mar 10, 2004, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No

Yes

Zimphire · Mar 10, 2004, 06:58 PM

Millennium · Mar 11, 2004, 10:11 AM

If you don't like the license plate, get the other one. Last I checked, there were two wildlife-oriented license plate designs in Georgia, and both of them donated the same portion of their respective proceeds.

Millennium · Mar 11, 2004, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
actually, you're not making much sense.
1. The people were not objecting to nationalism. They were objecting (mistakenly) to what they perceived as the state favoring one political party over another. That has to do with perceived electioneering and favoritism. It has nothing to do with Nationalism or patriotism. It so happens they were wrong in the content of their objection, but you are also wrong to mischaracterize the origin of their objection.

So there's a bald eagle and an American flag. Last I checked, neither of these things were Republican symbols, or Democrat symbols for that matter. Symbols of the country, yes, but not any political party.

The people protesting this are not partiotic, nor are they unpatriotic. They're just stupid.

Millennium · Mar 11, 2004, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by andi*pandi:
well, yes, it's a tenuous jump from an eagle with a flag to a bush conspiracy. I'm sure it's selling well because people want the flag, or want to look like they are patriotic. Just like all those flag stickers that popped up on people's cars after 9/11, if you didn't have one you were suspect. Then Chinese restaurants started handing out flag stickers so they wouldn't be suspect. Those stickers were frickin' everywhere.

Oh God, the stickers. I remember those. I had to take my car into the shop about a week after 9/11, and they just stuck one on without asking me. I didn't think much about it for a while after that, but I decided to take it down on the first anniversary, during the 'national moment of silence'. I thought it was somehow appropriate.

Lerkfish · Mar 11, 2004, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by Millennium:
So there's a bald eagle and an American flag. Last I checked, neither of these things were Republican symbols, or Democrat symbols for that matter. Symbols of the country, yes, but not any political party.

The people protesting this are not partiotic, nor are they unpatriotic. They're just stupid.

I don't believe we disagree on that point: but one wonders why you quoted me as if we do.

Zimphire · Mar 11, 2004, 11:18 AM

I think you are being a tad paranoid.

PerryP2 · Mar 11, 2004, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Oh yes they do have the right to think and say stuff like that in our great country.

That is the irony of this all.

Send them to communist China for a year. I bet most come back with a different tude.

China is where most US flags are made