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60 years later in the "free" and "democratic nation......
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Mar 10, 2004, 11:31 AM
 
Israel ends Arab worker 'marking'

What a terrible world we live in.........


How did this ever get started?

Dicscuss™

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 11:39 AM
 



     
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Mar 10, 2004, 12:39 PM
 
Hmmm,

I am torn on this one. On one hand, I can see why the Israels are doing this. Arabs want to kill them. They want to kill their women and children. Doesn't Israel have the right to protect it's citizens? It's easy to call it racism, but what if you always feared terrorist attacks from a group of people who have declared war not only on your government, but on your people.

They only required workers who have not passed security to wear the helmets so they can start work immediately. If you ask me...that is benevolence.

On the other hand, I can see the similarities and comparisons. I don't necessarily agree, but I can understand. I guess what the deciding factor has to be principle or safety.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 12:40 PM
 
=
(Last edited by Lerkfish; Mar 12, 2004 at 01:08 PM. )
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 12:46 PM
 
It would be naive to assume that both the Israelis an Palestinians wish the best for each other. It would also be naive to assume that both the Israelis and Palestinians are working for peace. With that said, I found this amusing:

Ahmed Tibi, an Arab legislator, told Reuters news agency it was symptomatic of a "virus of racism" that has infected Israeli society.
Like the Arab nations only hate the Israelis because they are in the land they want. No, they are just as Anti-Semitic as the Nazi Party 60 years ago; vmarks has provided much to this effect. The Arab states didn't originally care about the land, it was the presence of the Israelis' that ticked the off. An Arab calling and Israeli racist or vice versa is just stupid. They both are, and everybody knows it.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 12:48 PM
 
Originally posted by Lerkfish:
And?

So when did this practice start? After they had been attacked or before? It makes quite a difference.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 12:56 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
And?

So when did this practice start? After they had been attacked or before? It makes quite a difference.
It makes no difference at all!

Do you want me to list the reasons the nazis had for doing the same? Would that make you change your opinion on that?



I can't believe there are people out there that will defend such a thing.

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 12:58 PM
 
Originally posted by dcolton:
Hmmm,

I am torn on this one. On one hand, I can see why the Israels are doing this. Arabs want to kill them. They want to kill their women and children. Doesn't Israel have the right to protect it's citizens? It's easy to call it racism, but what if you always feared terrorist attacks from a group of people who have declared war not only on your government, but on your people.
Oh come on! Its just those dirty Isreali's not letting themselves be murdered! Can't you see how it's WRONG?

It's not the people attacking Israel's fault. Honestly.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 12:59 PM
 
Originally posted by Logic:
It makes no difference at all!
Yes it does. A action always causes a reaction.

Do you want me to list the reasons the nazis had for doing the same? Would that make you change your opinion on that?

I can't believe there are people out there that will defend such a thing.
I can't believe there are people out there that can't or REFUSE to understand why this is being done.

Reminds me of a 3 year old with a bat that keeps smacking people with it. When his mother takes it away from him he screams "EEEEEETS NOOT FAAAAAAAIR, I WASN'T DOING ANYTHING!!!"
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:04 PM
 
Zimp,

Thanks for setting me straight.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:05 PM
 
Originally posted by Logic:
It makes no difference at all!

Do you want me to list the reasons the nazis had for doing the same? Would that make you change your opinion on that?



I can't believe there are people out there that will defend such a thing.
Of course it makes a difference. In one instance it can be attributed only to racism or hatred; in the other fear can play a large part. If this was indeed instituted because of a fear for their lives, weather a justified fear or not, makes this less repulsive than you would like it to be.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:09 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
If this was indeed instituted because of a fear for their lives, weather a justified fear or not, makes this less repulsive than you would like it to be.
Exactly, And such fear is highly justified in this case. Esp when that SAME group of people want to push you off into the sea.

A good way to stop this from happening? Get Palestine to actually make a effort to STOP terrorism instead of promoting it.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:13 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
Of course it makes a difference. In one instance it can be attributed only to racism or hatred; in the other fear can play a large part. If this was indeed instituted because of a fear for their lives, weather a justified fear or not, makes this less repulsive than you would like it to be.
It does not make a difference. What do you think inspired the people to follow nazi-ism's hatred? It was because they were afraid. Their country was going through a hard time, the economy was in shambles, and they were afraid. Hitler came and told them that it was all the Jews' fault, and that if they got rid of the Jews their problems would go away. It was their fear that made the succeptable to Hitler's influence and to the throws of racism that resulted in the slaughter of millions of innocent people.

There is no excuse for any form of racial descrimination.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:13 PM
 
I'm going to take the other side, just because I want to debate with Z.

Couldn't you say that practices like this breed hate and terrorism? Maybe it is a never ending cycle of reprisals and a recognized government has to take small steps to bring it to an end. Placing a mark on someone's helemt because of their race is demoralizing and breeds hostility.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:16 PM
 
Originally posted by nonhuman:
It does not make a difference. What do you think inspired the people to follow nazi-ism's hatred? It was because they were afraid. Their country was going through a hard time, the economy was in shambles, and they were afraid.

Hitler came and told them that it was all the Jews' fault, and that if they got rid of the Jews their problems would go away. It was their fear that made the succeptable to Hitler's influence and to the throws of racism that resulted in the slaughter of millions of innocent people.

There is no excuse for any form of racial descrimination.
Difference, the Jews weren't trying to push the Germans out into the sea. Nor were they practicing terrorism. Nor did they have anything against the Germans.

Hitler used the Jews as a scape goat. In other words, the Jews weren't doing anything to cause said actions. The Palestine terrorist however ARE.

One is justified because of actions of another. Sad it has to work that way. But someone people don't want it any other way.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:18 PM
 
Originally posted by dcolton:
I'm going to take the other side, just because I want to debate with Z.

Couldn't you say that practices like this breed hate and terrorism?

I probably does. But what caused it? Hate and terrorism.

And it looks as if Palestine wont stop till they get THEIR WAY. Which isn't going to happen.

Maybe it is a never ending cycle of reprisals and a recognized government has to take small steps to bring it to an end. Placing a mark on someone's helemt because of their race is demoralizing and breeds hostility.
Right. But there is a way to stop it. Stop the terrorism.

The Palestinian terrorists are to blame here.

Israel isn't doing this because they hate "Semites"
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:22 PM
 
What is wrong with labeling people that are your sworn enemy? I say we all make gay people put rainbow stickers on their cars....

So, we know that we are keying the right car. <kidding> I kid.

Seriously, labels are a bad thing. If you cannot trust your security to insure safety, then don't let them in the country. It is every countries sovereign right to do so, no?

A microchip injected under the skin should do nicely to track the undesireables.
Lerk, step right up, this won't hurt much.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:22 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Difference, the Jews weren't trying to push the Germans out into the sea. Nor were they practicing terrorism. Nor did they have anything against the Germans.

Hitler used the Jews as a scape goat. In other words, the Jews weren't doing anything to cause said actions.

BIG DIFFERENCE.
No. There is no difference. If all arabs are trying to push the Israelis into the sea, then there would be no reason to have such a policy because arabs wouldn't be working in Israel for Israeli companies. The people that this policy effects are not the same people that want to destroy Isreal. Rather, they're people who are helping to build Israel by participating in it's economy in a productive way.

So this is the same situation as in Nazi Germany. Israel is having problems. They're using arabs who live and work in Israel as a scapegoat. These arags are not the people who are causing problems for Israel.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:25 PM
 
Originally posted by nonhuman:
It does not make a difference. What do you think inspired the people to follow nazi-ism's hatred? It was because they were afraid. Their country was going through a hard time, the economy was in shambles, and they were afraid. Hitler came and told them that it was all the Jews' fault, and that if they got rid of the Jews their problems would go away. It was their fear that made the succeptable to Hitler's influence and to the throws of racism that resulted in the slaughter of millions of innocent people.

There is no excuse for any form of racial descrimination.
Oh, I'm sorry, I must have missed that part of history where the German's claims against the Jews were truthful and backed up by facts and evidence.

Yes they were afraid, but not nearly as afraid as hopeless. Someone comes and gives them hope; and *bam* instant charismatic leader people are willing to follow blindly. But that is my view and not particularly relevant to this thread.

The point is, the Jews were not doing anything to the German population to intentionally harm them. The same cannot be said for the Arabs.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:27 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
Oh, I'm sorry, I must have missed that part of history where the German's claims against the Jews were truthful and backed up by facts and evidence.

Yes they were afraid, but not nearly as afraid as hopeless. Someone comes and gives them hope; and *bam* instant charismatic leader people are willing to follow blindly. But that is my view and not particularly relevant to this thread.

The point is, the Jews were not doing anything to the German population to intentionally harm them. The same cannot be said for the Arabs.
But it can be said for the arabs who live and work in Israel and contribute in a productive way to the Israeli economy and society. Just because some arabs want to destroy Israel does not mean that it is ok to discriminate against all arabs. A black man was once disrespectful to be because I am white, does that mean I can assume that all black people are disrespectful?
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:29 PM
 
Originally posted by nonhuman:
[B]No. There is no difference. If all arabs are trying to push the Israelis into the sea, then there would be no reason to have such a policy because arabs wouldn't be working in Israel for Israeli companies. The people that this policy effects are not the same people that want to destroy Isreal. Rather, they're people who are helping to build Israel by participating in it's economy in a productive way./B]
And how do you know that for sure? Especially when there are not full-scale invasions against Israel, but small, isolated attacks.

I don't know about you, but a single man with a bomb seems the best way to attack the Israelis' to me. And apparently a bunch of Arabs think so too.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:34 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:

I probably does. But what caused it? Hate and terrorism.

And it looks as if Palestine wont stop till they get THEIR WAY. Which isn't going to happen.


Right. But there is a way to stop it. Stop the terrorism.

The Palestinian terrorists are to blame here.

Israel isn't doing this because they hate "Semites" [/B]
You can't stop terrorism through intimidation. Nor can you codemn a group of people just because of their nationality or skin color. Out of principle, Israel has to step up and be the bigger of the two. There are other ways to prevent terrorism...and a beginning would be dialogue without weapons.

An old sales technique, "find the pain". While I will admit that the palestinians are going about the issue in a horrible, deplorable, cowardly way, how many non-arabs have really tried to find the real pain to open up honest and effectable dialogue?
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:34 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
And how do you know that for sure? Especially when there are not full-scale invasions against Israel, but small, isolated attacks.

I don't know about you, but a single man with a bomb seems the best way to attack the Israelis' to me. And apparently a bunch of Arabs think so too.
So you're saying it's ok to discriminate against all arabs because some of them might be terrorists? Fine. But I don't think so, and I will never think so. It is no different than trying to kill all Jews because you think some Jews are responsible for your problems. As someone who would have been targetted by the Nazi's had I been born in that place and time, I find the actions of the Israelis absolutely reprehesible and disgusting.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:35 PM
 
Originally posted by nonhuman:
But it can be said for the arabs who live and work in Israel and contribute in a productive way to the Israeli economy and society. Just because some arabs want to destroy Israel does not mean that it is ok to discriminate against all arabs. A black man was once disrespectful to be because I am white, does that mean I can assume that all black people are disrespectful?
If I get mugged by a black man, you can be rest assured I will be more wary of black men in the future. I would be stupid not to be. It's a survival instinct. What about Catholic Priests? Are people now more wary about leaving their kids alone with one? Of course. Is this racism or discrimination? No, it's common sense.

I read a great article a few years ago in the New Yorker written by a black man about how when he walks in NYC at night, he is more wary of black men than white men. And sometimes he even whistles show tunes when walking by white people so they don't fear him.

I have no problem with discrimination or labeling based on history. If you make that name for yourself, you are going to have to deal with it when people judged you based on that name.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:36 PM
 
Originally posted by nonhuman:
So you're saying it's ok to discriminate against all arabs because some of them might be terrorists? Fine. But I don't think so, and I will never think so. It is no different than trying to kill all Jews because you think some Jews are responsible for your problems. As someone who would have been targetted by the Nazi's had I been born in that place and time, I find the actions of the Israelis absolutely reprehesible and disgusting.
Yes and no. If this system was instituted after attacks were made, then yes; there is ample reason. If this was instituted before attacks, then no; they would have no reason other than the fact that they do not like the Arabs.

Which is why I asked when this practice was instituted.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:38 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
If I get mugged by a black man, you can be rest assured I will be more wary of black men in the future. I would be stupid not to be. It's a survival instinct. What about Catholic Priests? Are people now more wary about leaving their kids alone with one? Of course. Is this racism or discrimination? No, it's common sense.

I read a great article a few years ago in the New Yorker written by a black man about how when he walks in NYC at night, he is more wary of black men than white men. And sometimes he even whistles show tunes when walking by white people so they don't fear him.

I have no problem with discrimination or labeling based on history. If you make that name for yourself, you are going to have to deal with it when people judged you based on that name.
Then I feel sorry for you and everyone else who feels they have to live in fear of those who are different. No one is inherently better or worse than anyone else. The color of their skin has no bearing whatsoever on the content of their character. And yes, it is racism and discrimination. You can not extrapolate characteristics of an entire group from the behavior of an individual.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:47 PM
 
Originally posted by nonhuman:
You can not extrapolate characteristics of an entire group from the behavior of an individual.
You are right. I would not presume to know every one; wether they are nice or not. However, if a group has a significantly probability to commit a crime, I (and the government, law enforcement) will certainly view individual members more warily. Just how it is, and it is not racism. I do not hate one race more than the other; but I am more wary of some.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 01:55 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
I do not hate one race more than the other; but I am more wary of some.
That is racism. You really don't get it, do you?

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:02 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
You are right. I would not presume to know every one; wether they are nice or not. However, if a group has a significantly probability to commit a crime, I (and the government, law enforcement) will certainly view individual members more warily. Just how it is, and it is not racism. I do not hate one race more than the other; but I am more wary of some.
There are no statistics on how likely a certain race is to commit a crime, only on how likely they are to be arrested, convicted, and/or incarcerated.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:18 PM
 
First of all, CALM DOWN! It's over. It's been abolished.
Secondly, even the ADL, and everyone who hasn't just fallen out of a tree knows what the ADL is (hint: It's a Jewish organisation that makes a lot of noise world wide when it perceives Jews as being discriminated against), is against this and has condemned it.

The situation in Israel/Palestine is anything but pretty and there is an enormous amount of wrong doing on BOTH SIDES (Palestinain Suicide bombings and Israeli military raids, both of which kill innocents as well as participants) but Israelis gorw up with the stories of the holocaust and there are many jews who are not unaware of the symbolism of such practices such as this one.

Now fu©k off, all of you!
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:21 PM
 
Originally posted by theolein:

Now fu©k off, all of you!
No, you **** off!



"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:26 PM
 
Originally posted by Logic:
That is racism. You really don't get it, do you?
No, that is not racism, that is a prejudice. Prejudices can lead to racism, but not all prejudices are racism.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:28 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
No, that is not racism, that is a prejudice. Prejudices can lead to racism, but not all prejudices are racism.
Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
www.merriam-webster.com
(emphasis mine)
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:33 PM
 
Originally posted by nonhuman:
There are no statistics on how likely a certain race is to commit a crime, only on how likely they are to be arrested, convicted, and/or incarcerated.
The likelihood that a member of a certain group will commit a crime can be gathered from that data. I am not talking about races in general either, but specific geographical locations. In my neighborhood I am not wary of these things. If I go to NYC I will be.

I do not believe that a certain race is more disposed to be violent criminals; but rest assured I will be more nervous of a black man in Harlem than Times Square not based solely on race, but on location as well.

Don't act all high an mighty either. I am not the only one; you do this too.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:36 PM
 
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:40 PM
 
I thought we were talking about Jews and Arabs?
Why do black people always get dragged into every debate? Are blacks the liberals trump card on every issue?
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:47 PM
 
Originally posted by nonhuman:
(emphasis mine)
I can do this too.

From the APA website:

What is racism?

Racism is racial prejudice that has been incorporated into the activities and procedures of major institutions, corporations, social systems (such as those related to housing, education, and health), and other arenas of major social activity (such as politics, the media, finance, and banking). Racism serves both to discriminate against ethnic minorities and to maintain advantages and benefits for White Americans.
How am I securing benefits for myself? This is not discrimination so I can only hire white people, make black men sit at the back of the bus, etc. You are making way to big a deal out of the whole issue. Being wary of a group based on past experience is not racism; now if for no reason I decided that all black men were out to kill me and we must lock them up, or kill them, that is racism.

Again earlier you said:
Then I feel sorry for you and everyone else who feels they have to live in fear of those who are different.
I do not fear people who are different. You ever been to a town that has a "good part" and a "bad part"? Would you let your kids roam free in the "bad part" of town? Would it make any difference wether the "good part" was all 90% one race and the "bad part" 90% another race? What about if you were walking in the place between the good part and the bad part and behind you was someone that you think is from the bad part; would you feel less safe then? Why? Because of their race, or because you know that there is a higher chance that the person could harm you.

Same reason why cabdrivers don't pick up some people hailing them. Same reason why Domino's won't deliver to certain neighborhoods. It's not racism.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:50 PM
 
Originally posted by dcolton:
I thought we were talking about Jews and Arabs?
Why do black people always get dragged into every debate? Are blacks the liberals trump card on every issue?
I used black and white in an illustration because it is easier for me to talk in those terms that Jews and Arabs. But now I hate black people and am a racist apparently. Maybe I played into their hand by bringing out the trump card for them, I don't know. I do know that today 'racism' is applied to many things it should not be.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:51 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
Because of their race, or because you know that there is a higher chance that the person could harm you.

Same reason why cabdrivers don't pick up some people hailing them. Same reason why Domino's won't deliver to certain neighborhoods. It's not racism.
You're rationalized so far from a position of rationalization that you don't even see it any more.

The question remains how do you determine that someone is more likely to cause you harm? A stranger in Times Square is a stranger in Times Square, and yet you maintain that it is rational to fear a black stranger more than a white one. Why is that?

Your other defense seems to be that it is common. Yes, I know its common. That still doesn't make it right, ethical or good.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:52 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
image snip
Don't get it, sorry.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:53 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
I used black and white in an illustration because it is easier for me to talk in those terms that Jews and Arabs. But now I hate black people and am a racist apparently. Maybe I played into their hand by bringing out the trump card for them, I don't know. I do know that today 'racism' is applied to many things it should not be.
Being black and all, it just pisses me off. (And I don't think you are a racist) It just kills me that every topic somehow gets to blacks and racism. What kills me is that these are the same people who probably have one black friend that has never been to their house for dinner, unless they were cooking it for them.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:54 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
You're rationalized so far from a position of rationalization that you don't even see it any more.

The question remains how do you determine that someone is more likely to cause you harm? A stranger in Times Square is a stranger in Times Square, and yet you maintain that it is rational to fear a black stranger more than a white one. Why is that?

Your other defense seems to be that it is common. Yes, I know its common. That still doesn't make it right, ethical or good.
When a people like to blow themselves up in attempt to blow you up - that is when you KNOW that someone is more likely to cause you harm.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:55 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
You're rationalized so far from a position of rationalization that you don't even see it any more.

The question remains how do you determine that someone is more likely to cause you harm? A stranger in Times Square is a stranger in Times Square, and yet you maintain that it is rational to fear a black stranger more than a white one. Why is that?

Your other defense seems to be that it is common. Yes, I know its common. That still doesn't make it right, ethical or good.
No, I think that I have felt that I need to explain myself (and in the process show that I am not racist), and in that attempt I might have over-explained these things giving the wrong impression. It happens a lot.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:59 PM
 
Originally posted by dcolton:
Being black and all, it just pisses me off. (And I don't think you are a racist) It just kills me that every topic somehow gets to blacks and racism. What kills me is that these are the same people who probably have one black friend that has never been to their house for dinner, unless they were cooking it for them.
Yea, it would piss me off to if I were you. Next time I will make up fake races for my hypothetical situations. Didn't mean any of the race stuff literally, in fact, I would apply it to all.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 03:00 PM
 
Originally posted by dcolton:
When a people like to blow themselves up in attempt to blow you up - that is when you KNOW that someone is more likely to cause you harm.
You've already demonstrated that you believe arab==terrorist so you can feel free to ignore my posts. I have no interest in even attempting to straighten out your twisted worldview.

For benb there appears to be some light at the end of the tunnel. He recognizes his own prejudices (which we all have, even when we know they are irrational). I admire his honesty.

I'm not trying to prove to you that you're a racist, benb, I'm just trying to show that at the heart of some of your irrational prejudices (and I have some as well), there is an element of racism that has been ingrained by our society. A society that seems to find it very very easy to convince people that it is entirely rational to fear a black stranger in Times Square more than a white stranger. You're not the only person to finds themselves with those feelings. It doesn't make you a bad person.

But I would hope that you'd recognize that it is irrational and it is fundamentally predicated on a nugget of racism, reinforced by our society.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 03:03 PM
 
Originally posted by dcolton:
Being black and all, it just pisses me off. (And I don't think you are a racist) It just kills me that every topic somehow gets to blacks and racism. What kills me is that these are the same people who probably have one black friend that has never been to their house for dinner, unless they were cooking it for them.
And you "know" this how?

I lived in a neighborhood with 60% foreigners, it was a "bad" neighboorhood. Was I more afraid of people of a different race or people from that neighboorhood? No.

I still can't believe people are defending this........ It's a sad world we live in.

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 03:04 PM
 
Originally posted by dcolton:
When a people like to blow themselves up in attempt to blow you up - that is when you KNOW that someone is more likely to cause you harm.
Which is why this whole thing got started in the first place. By asking if this policy was instituted before or after attacks; which it seems no one wants to answer. But considering that the attacks against the Jews in Israel started the day after the UN decision was made, I'll guess after.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 03:08 PM
 
You've already demonstrated that you believe arab==terrorist so you can feel free to ignore my posts. I have no interest in even attempting to straighten out your twisted worldview.
You don't know how wrong you are! I work for a company that brings American businesses to the Middle East and vice versa. I have eaten, drank, shared my home with Arabs from many different nations. So don't assume anything

Despite that, Israel is a different story. Their way of life is hampered to the point of fear (of death and serious injury) because of a non-stop barrage of terrorist attacks. If it were any other nation, Palestine would be no more. Could you imagine if the United States were in the same situation?

I say we take the leash off of Israel and let them handle the problem the way they see fit.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 03:09 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
The likelihood that a member of a certain group will commit a crime can be gathered from that data.
No, it really can't. Do you really think that more black people smoke pot than white people? I would suspect that marijuana usage is about equal by percentage among the different races. Yet there are far more blacks in prison for various marijuana-related crimes than whites. Is this because more blacks are involved in marijuana-related crimes, or because the authorities target them when looking for marijuana-related crimes and are more likely to look the other way for whites?

I am not talking about races in general either, but specific geographical locations. In my neighborhood I am not wary of these things. If I go to NYC I will be.

I do not believe that a certain race is more disposed to be violent criminals; but rest assured I will be more nervous of a black man in Harlem than Times Square not based solely on race, but on location as well.
I live in Oakland, CA when I'm not at school in Minnesota. Not too far from the old headquarters of the Black Panthers. Within walking distance of E 14th street, generally acknowledged to be the most dangerous part of Oakland, which is, in turn, not too far down on the list of dangerous places in California. Most of my white friends in high school were afraid to even drive down E 14th, especially alone, and especially at night. I've been down there lots of times. Spent time wandering up and down the street waiting for some work on my car to get finished. I've never been afraid that the random black or latino is going to kill me or mug me, or do anything other than just treat me like they do every other person on the street. And this is having experienced first-hand, hostility towards myself just for being white. And you know what, I've never had a problem there. I've never had a single person do anything untoward or even really acknowledge me as anything than just another person on the sidewalk. Black people are just that, people who happen to have a different color skin. They are no more or less likely to be a danger to me than white people or asian people or latino people.

Don't act all high an mighty either. I am not the only one; you do this too.
No, I don't. At least, not that I'm aware of. Maybe it's just because that when someone gives me a hard time I don't think that some black person gave me a hard time, I just think that some person gave me a hard time. For whatever reason, I don't treat people differently because of their race. I don't claim to be perfect, and I don't claim that I've never had a though along those lines, but when I have I've viewed it as a problem and seem to have done a pretty good job of ridding myself of such prejudices.
     
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Mar 10, 2004, 03:10 PM
 
Originally posted by benb:
Which is why this whole thing got started in the first place. By asking if this policy was instituted before or after attacks; which it seems no one wants to answer. But considering that the attacks against the Jews in Israel started the day after the UN decision was made, I'll guess after.
No one wants to answer because it doesn't matter. They are making arabs(most likely Israeli arabs that are supposed to be "equal") wear signs to make people know that they are arabs. What is the difference in that from the Nazi way of doing it? Very little. It doesn't matter if they have a "reason" to do it, because the Nazis also had a "reason" to do it.

This is racism and I don't understand how this could ever have been accepted in a "civilized" country.

Go on and try to explain how you are not a racist..... It's almost fun to watch.

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
 
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