[John F. Smith]

In one of Bin Laden's speeches justifying his global cause of terrorism, he says:

"Let the whole world know that we shall never accept that the tragedy of Andalusia would be repeated in Palestine. We cannot accept that Palestine will become Jewish."

From what we know, Al-Qaida launched the attack of 3/11 on Madrid. If Al-Qaida were to begin a policy of reclaiming Andalusia from its Christian occupiers through the use of terrorism, would this be acceptable? The Palestinian cause of driving out non-muslims from Israel seems to get a lot of sympathy here, so it should follow that Islamist terrorists would be justified in taking southern Spain back as well. You can not in good faith think otherwise.

[gadster]

Originally posted by John F. Smith:
In one of Bin Laden's speeches justifying his global cause of terrorism, he says:

"Let the whole world know that we shall never accept that the tragedy of Andalusia would be repeated in Palestine. We cannot accept that Palestine will become Jewish."

From what we know, Al-Qaida launched the attack of 3/11 on Madrid. If Al-Qaida were to begin a policy of reclaiming Andalusia from its Christian occupiers through the use of terrorism, would this be acceptable? The Palestinian cause of driving out non-muslims from Israel seems to get a lot of sympathy here, so it should follow that Islamist terrorists would be justified in taking southern Spain back as well. You can not in good faith think otherwise.

Yes you can. The time frames are too different to make these situations analogous. While neither situation is acceptable, the latter is somewhat understandable. Shades of grey.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by John F. Smith:
The Palestinian cause of driving out non-muslims from Israel seems to get a lot of sympathy here, so it should follow that Islamist terrorists would be justified in taking southern Spain back as well. You can not in good faith think otherwise.

Hmmm ... I can, in good faith, think whatever I think is an accurate description of the situation. Palestine/Israel and the city of Jerusalem are considered religious "homeland" by both Jews and Muslims. I'm not particularly pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian ... but the simple facts of the matter are that a Jewish state was established some 50+ years ago which has displaced the people who had been living there for, oh, the last thousand years or so. And we're surprised that they are bitterly opposed to living under the rules of this state that they didn't want and have no real voice in ?? If a family drove from 500 miles away and set up shop in your house, how long would you continue trying to kick them out ?? Probably until they were gone, I'd guess.

[undotwa]

Originally posted by Krusty:
Hmmm ... I can, in good faith, think whatever I think is an accurate description of the situation. Palestine/Israel and the city of Jerusalem are considered religious "homeland" by both Jews and Muslims. I'm not particularly pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian ... but the simple facts of the matter are that a Jewish state was established some 50+ years ago which has displaced the people who had been living there for, oh, the last thousand years or so. And we're surprised that they are bitterly opposed to living under the rules of this state that they didn't want and have no real voice in ?? If a family drove from 500 miles away and set up shop in your house, how long would you continue trying to kick them out ?? Probably until they were gone, I'd guess.

It's understandable, but it doesn't excuse their acts. The point is, the Jews are there, rightly or wrongly, it really doesn't matter. Because trying to kick them out now is wrong in itself, because a deportation of several million people is impossible without pain.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Krusty:
Hmmm ... I can, in good faith, think whatever I think is an accurate description of the situation. Palestine/Israel and the city of Jerusalem are considered religious "homeland" by both Jews and Muslims. I'm not particularly pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian ... but the simple facts of the matter are that a Jewish state was established some 50+ years ago which has displaced the people who had been living there for, oh, the last thousand years or so.

Nevermind that it was founded in part by people who had been living there for the last thousand years or more, and didn't displace people the way you think. If it did, how did all the Arabs who are Israeli citizens get there?

And we're surprised that they are bitterly opposed to living under the rules of this state that they didn't want and have no real voice in ??

Likewise incorrect.

Arabs who are Israeli citizens (and there are plenty) vote, and elect members to the house of Government. MKs who happen to be Arab are:
Ahmed Tibi, Abdel Malek Dahamshe, Azmi Bishara, Issam Mahoul, Husnia Jebara (a female Israeli-Arab), Jamal Zahalqa, Mohammad Barakei - these are all I can remember off the top of my head.

So you can't with any truth say they have no voice in the rules of the state.

If a family drove from 500 miles away and set up shop in your house, how long would you continue trying to kick them out ?? Probably until they were gone, I'd guess.

Except that isn't a good analogy. If a family already living there invited their extended family to come and live with them, escaping oppression both in the towns that surrounded and the towns 500 miles away, that isn't so wrong.

[Millennium]

But Al-Qaeda already rules Spain. Their government and people don't know it yet, but the proof will be when they roll over in the fact of the next attack and give them whatever they want, just like they did this time.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Millennium:
But Al-Qaeda already rules Spain. Their government and people don't know it yet, but the proof will be when they roll over in the fact of the next attack and give them whatever they want, just like they did this time.

The whole population of Spain does not know.

But YOU do...

And what else did the stars tell you?

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
The whole population of Spain does not know.

But YOU do...

And what else did the stars tell you?

Always good for a quickie ad hominem... eh?

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Always good for a quickie ad hominem... eh?

You're not bad either...

[saab95]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
The whole population of Spain does not know.

But YOU do...

And what else did the stars tell you?

Millenium does raise a good point.

Rather than show solidarity for their fight against terrorism, as a result of the cruel and unjustified attacks against them, the Spanish mob went ahead and elected a socialist prime minister and cabinet, who are in favor of withdrawing troops from the Middle East.

Exactly what Al Qaeda wants.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by saab95:
Millenium does raise a good point.

Rather than show solidarity for their fight against terrorism, as a result of the cruel and unjustified attacks against them, the Spanish mob went ahead and elected a socialist prime minister and cabinet, who are in favor of withdrawing troops from the Middle East.

Exactly what Al Qaeda wants.

Belief is no proof. It would be nice to have Spanish people talk for themselves in this matter. Especially those who voted for the socialist. Anybody else talking for them is interpreting from their own points of view. Barely relevant.

On the other hand, almost ALL countries oppose terrorism, especially coming from Al-Qaeda, and especially after 9/11.

Yet, they are not all in Middle East... And by Middle East... You mean Iraq.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Millennium:
But Al-Qaeda already rules Spain. Their government and people don't know it yet, but the proof will be when they roll over in the fact of the next attack and give them whatever they want, just like they did this time.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
Belief is no proof. It would be nice to have Spanish people talk for themselves in this matter. Especially those who voted for the socialist. Anybody else talking for them is interpreting from their own points of view. Barely relevant.

On the other hand, almost ALL countries oppose terrorism, especially coming from Al-Qaeda, and especially after 9/11.

Yet, they are not all in Middle East... And by Middle East... You mean Iraq.

Time for a ciggy.

---~

[eklipse]

Originally posted by saab95:
Rather than show solidarity for their fight against terrorism, as a result of the cruel and unjustified attacks against them, the Spanish mob went ahead and elected a socialist prime minister and cabinet, who are in favor of withdrawing troops from the Middle East.

Exactly what Al Qaeda wants.

You need to realize that a solid majority of Spaniards never wanted their country to be involved in the Middle East to start with.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by eklipse:
You need to realize that a solid majority of Spaniards never wanted their country to be involved in the Middle East to start with.

I didn't realize there were that many cowards living in Spain. Was there a sudden migration of French to Spain?

Or was it time to get chased down the streets by BULLS?

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I didn't realize there were that many cowards living in Spain. Was there a sudden migration of French to Spain?

Or was it time to get chased down the streets by BULLS?

So....

When are you joining your unit for the next shipment of soldiers in Iraq?

Send postcards!!!

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
So....
When are you joining your unit for the next shipment of soldiers in Iraq?
Send postcards!!!

Is that the best you got?

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Is that the best you got?

Is that the best YOU got?

LOL

[saab95]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
Belief is no proof. It would be nice to have Spanish people talk for themselves in this matter. Especially those who voted for the socialist. Anybody else talking for them is interpreting from their own points of view. Barely relevant.

Why? They are the MOB I speak of.

I can tell you by fact that NOT ALL SPANISH VOTED FOR THE SOCIALISTS.

A simple majority carried the Socialists into power with their Al-Qaeda enabling agenda.

Asking individual Spanish persons about this gets you nowhere.

On the other hand, almost ALL countries oppose terrorism, especially coming from Al-Qaeda, and especially after 9/11.

Yet, they are not all in Middle East... And by Middle East... You mean Iraq.

No. I mean the Middle East. I mean Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.

I disagree that almost all countries oppose terrorism. How about France and Germany? They knew that Hussein sponsored terrorists, so they refused to participate in his being removed from power. You can make an argument by saying that Russia opposes terrorism. They have been attacked by Chechnyen rebels on a weekly basis by terrorists. What has Putin done? If I were a Russian I'd get a good-old-fashioned mob together and protest against his ineptitude in dealing with the terrorists.

Look at how Pakistan tried to capture al Qaedas who were holed up in the mountains ontheir borders. A real half-baked effort. Al Qaedas easily escaped the entrapment. Lots of border tribes harbor Taliban and Al Qaeda. Why don't we attack them all?

Much of the Middle East harbors terrorists in training camps. Clearly their overtures about opposing terrorism are outright deceptions.

[saab95]

Originally posted by eklipse:
You need to realize that a solid majority of Spaniards never wanted their country to be involved in the Middle East to start with.

You have no proof of that.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by saab95:
Why don't we attack them all?

Much of the Middle East harbors terrorists in training camps. Clearly their overtures about opposing terrorism are outright deceptions.

Well,

sounds like you know what to do!

Have a nice trip there and send postcards!

[Krusty]

Originally posted by saab95:
You have no proof of that.

Technically, the fact that he presented no proof is true. However do a simple google search and you'll see numerous (reputable) sources quoting 80-90% of Spaniards are opposed to the war. That's far more than the "solid majority" eklipse spoke of ... it's nearly freakin' unanimous. Here's a couple to get you started:
Time Magazine

With the country in crisis after the attacks, the government persisted in blaming the Basque terrorists of ETA — even after news broke of an al-Qaeda connection, reviving the issue of Aznar's support for the war in Iraq, which 90% of Spaniards opposed

Toronto Star

... Sunday's election results in Spain, where 90 per cent of people were against the Iraq war, could just as ...

Guardian (UK)

Spain's exit has nothing to do with lack of commitment to fight terror: that exit was at the heart of the Socialists' electoral platform, and a remarkable 90% of the population had opposed the war.

Didn't even bother to spend 30 seconds to find out whether or not eklipse's statement was true or false. That's a double for attempting to call Bull$hit but being totally, completely, egregiously in the wrong.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
Well,

sounds like you know what to do!

Have a nice trip there and send postcards!

You write that quite often.

See below:

:
Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I didn't realize there were that many cowards living in Spain. Was there a sudden migration of French to Spain?

Or was it time to get chased down the streets by BULLS?

YOU...

So....

When are you joining your unit for the next shipment of soldiers in Iraq?

Send postcards!!!




__________________

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
You write that quite often.

Yes.

It just occured to me, after someone acccused "peacenik liberals" that they were just "hot air on a seat".

So I'm thinking, the others must be active and doing something according to their belief. It is about coherence, I guess.

Are you?

See, it is easy to send others to fight while we watch them die on TV.

Especially to defend ideals.