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SubGeniux · Mar 23, 2004, 10:12 AM

My apologies if this has already been posted, but I coudn't see it.

So, is this Bush about to be pruned?

Bush is rattled by the allegations of Clarke.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3559153.stm

Main story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3559643.stm

Spliffdaddy · Mar 23, 2004, 10:14 AM

I think the only people who will be interested are the folks that already don't like Dubya.

It won't change anyone's opinion of anything.

SubGeniux · Mar 23, 2004, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I think the only people who will be interested are the folks that already don't like Dubya.

It won't change anyone's opinion of anything.

How about world opinion? It's already at a low, and this can only strengthen anti-US sentiments, not just with the citizens of foreign nations, but Governments (EU nations) who do not agree with the US on issues such as Iraq.

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I think the only people who will be interested are the folks that already don't like Dubya.

It won't change anyone's opinion of anything.

Indeed. The haters will continue to hate.

Spliffdaddy · Mar 23, 2004, 10:45 AM

World opinion is just that - opinion.

The primary goal is to make sure Americans are satisfied with America.

SubGeniux · Mar 23, 2004, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
World opinion is just that - opinion.

The primary goal is to make sure Americans are satisfied with America.

True, but one wonders how long before US opinion, which is sometimes realised in various foreign policy events, becomes the chagrin of the world.

But yeah, I think this inquiry will just cement the views of anti-Bushies, and barricade the beliefs of his supporters.

ghost_flash · Mar 23, 2004, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I think the only people who will be interested are the folks that already don't like Dubya.

It won't change anyone's opinion of anything.

I disagree. I think it will make more people vote for Bush, and strengthen the resolve of those who already knew they would vote for him.

More later.

SubGeniux · Mar 23, 2004, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I disagree. I think it will make more people vote for Bush, and strengthen the resolve of those who already knew they would vote for him.

More later.

Depends on how he comes out of this, and the members of his office. Even if he comes out of it wihtout a stain against his character, it still might taint him.

voodoo · Mar 23, 2004, 11:35 AM

OK looking at the current situation I withdraw my previous prediction: Bush WILL lose the election this fall.

Unless something changes.. there are still 7+ months to go!

(don't give up hope yet Republicans and Bushists!!)

ghost_flash · Mar 23, 2004, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
Depends on how he comes out of this, and the members of his office. Even if he comes out of it wihtout a stain against his character, it still might taint him.

Hmm. Really?

Slick Willy was impeached and disbarred but that isn't hurting him any...
You people still love the guy.

voodoo · Mar 23, 2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Hmm. Really?

Slick Willy was impeached and disbarred but that isn't hurting him any...
You people still love the guy.

I think that is because he lied about things we would have lied about.. or at least considered it.

Bush lied about things no patriot would even think about. His lies got people killed.

There are lies and then there are lies.

ghost_flash · Mar 23, 2004, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
I think that is because he lied about things we would have lied about.. or at least considered it.

Bush lied about things no patriot would even think about. His lies got people killed.

There are lies and then there are lies.

Oh, thanks for clearing that up for me... I'm better now for understading how Clinton's lies are ok by you.

Great how his wife made 100,000 in Cattle Futures...
Travelgate
Whitewater

et al.

Your credibility?

voodoo · Mar 23, 2004, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
[B]Oh, thanks for clearing that up for me... I'm better now for understading how Clinton's lies are ok by you. B]

You are welcome

So bottom line:

Not one of the 'scandals' Clinton did cost an innocent life. Or a life. At all. They did not jeopardize the rest of the World's view on USA..

What Clinton lied about was little League.

Bush's lies are in the professional Major League.

ghost_flash · Mar 23, 2004, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
You are welcome

So bottom line:

Not one of the 'scandals' Clinton did cost an innocent life. Or a life. At all. They did not jeopardize the rest of the World's view on USA..

What Clinton lied about was little League.

Bush's lies are in the professional Major League.

So, Clinton never lied and cost a life?

How many lives were lost because of protestors like him and Kerry, in Vietnam.
The Vietnam veterans have a few things to say about that statement of yours.

His innactions during many world events cost hundreds of American Lives.
He had opportunities to capture Osama Bin Laden, but he refused.
How many lives did he cost?

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...2/223420.shtml

Thanks for the link ZIM.

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
I think that is because he lied about things we would have lied about.. or at least considered it.

Bush lied about things no patriot would even think about. His lies got people killed.

There are lies and then there are lies.

Then there are those who point the lying finger baselessly.

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
So, Clinton never lied and cost a life?

How many lives were lost because of protestors like him and Kerry, in Vietnam.
The Vietnam veterans have a few things to say about that statement of yours.

His innactions during many world events cost hundreds of American Lives.
He had opportunities to capture Osama Bin Laden, but he refused.
How many lives did he cost?

I'll wait for your reply, while I go and gather some research for you to look at.

lets not count his cutbacks on military and intelligence spending.

Not that I believe any of this is Clinton's fault. But hey, if they want to play the "blame game"

voodoo · Mar 23, 2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Then there are those who point the lying finger baselessly.

Whom are you referring to?

clt2 · Mar 23, 2004, 12:07 PM

Who the hell needs proof when you have faith?
    - Jesus

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
Whom are you referring to?

To the person I quoted of course. Can you prove that Bush purposely lied? Of course not.

So it is indeed baseless.

clt2 · Mar 23, 2004, 12:20 PM

Absolute proof isn't required. That's why it's "proved beyond reasonable doubt", and not "proved beyond all doubt".

�And I also mentioned the fact that there is a connection between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.�
      - George W. Bush

<apologist>That's not a lie. By "connection" Bush obviously meant that they're both located on the same planet.</apologist>

PS: There is no absolute proof that Clinton had sexual relations with Monica.

ghost_flash · Mar 23, 2004, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by clt2:
Absolute proof isn't required. .</apologist> (Yes you are).

PS: There is no absolute proof that Clinton had sexual relations with Monica.

So, I guess those terrorist camps in Iraq were not known to Saddam Hussein? Iraq didn't support them? Are you always this naive?

clt2 · Mar 23, 2004, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
So, I guess those terrorist camps in Iraq were not known to Saddam Hussein? Iraq didn't support them? Are you always this naive?

Got any arguments? Or just ad hominems?

Regarding camps, there's not much I can do about your ignorance regarding the geographical location of those camps with respect to which parts of Iraq Saddam was in control of.

Logic · Mar 23, 2004, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
So, I guess those terrorist camps in Iraq were not known to Saddam Hussein? Iraq didn't support them? Are you always this naive?

If he knew about them he couldn't do anything about it. They were in Kurdish controlled areas, that is in your allies territory. Inside the no-fly zone. If SH moved his troops into that area they would get attacked by US and Kurdish forces. So in fact, Americans, Brits and the Kurds were sheltering terrorists.

It is not we who are naive...........

voodoo · Mar 23, 2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
To the person I quoted of course. Can you prove that Bush purposely lied? Of course not.

So it is indeed baseless.

Can you prove.. say.. Clinton lied purposely?

Didn't think so

Bottom line: Lies are lies even if you can't prove otherwise.

You are 100% silly.

voodoo · Mar 23, 2004, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by clt2:
Absolute proof isn't required. That's why it's "proved beyond reasonable doubt", and not "proved beyond all doubt".

�And I also mentioned the fact that there is a connection between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.�
      - George W. Bush

<apologist>That's not a lie. By "connection" Bush obviously meant that they're both located on the same planet.</apologist>

PS: There is no absolute proof that Clinton had sexual relations with Monica.

exacto!

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by clt2:
Absolute proof isn't required. That's why it's "proved beyond reasonable doubt", and not "proved beyond all doubt".

Ok, there isn't even that.

�And I also mentioned the fact that there is a connection between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.�
      - George W. Bush

http://www.hudson.org/files/publicat...damarticle.pdf

PS: There is no absolute proof that Clinton had sexual relations with Monica. [/B]

Yeah I guess Monica was sleeping in her dress next to Clinton, and she just rolled over into his nocturnal emission.

Not to mention he admitted it later after the fact that he lied under Oath.

Sorry, that top doesn't spin.

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
So, I guess those terrorist camps in Iraq were not known to Saddam Hussein? Iraq didn't support them? Are you always this naive?

Yeah this isn't true either!!

http://www.hudson.org/files/publicat...damarticle.pdf

clt2 · Mar 23, 2004, 01:07 PM

The moon landing was a hoax !!!!

http://www.primeline-america.com/moon-ldg/

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by clt2:
The moon landing was a hoax !!!!

http://www.primeline-america.com/moon-ldg/

I got the perfect Halloween costume for you.

clt2 · Mar 23, 2004, 01:11 PM

101% silly.

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 01:17 PM

I agree.

Lerkfish · Mar 23, 2004, 01:17 PM

Notice how we're no longer discussing the 9/11 inquiry...

Hmmmmm......

clt2 · Mar 23, 2004, 01:19 PM

Hudson.org (Think Tank):
"Yet even the invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq did not elicit outrage in the so-called Arab Street."

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
Notice how we're no longer discussing the 9/11 inquiry...

Hmmmmm......

Yes Lerk, it was all a magical distraction. You got me!

SubGeniux · Mar 23, 2004, 01:30 PM

Taking a cue from Lerkfish, back on topic folks. Latest news on the inquiry, Clinton tried to kill Osama during his tenure.

' Earlier, Mr Powell's predecessor told the commission President Bill Clinton had done all he could to defeat al-Qaeda and Bin Laden.

Madeleine Albright said Mr Clinton had authorised action to "neutralise" Bin Laden after the 1998 US embassy attacks in Africa - her worst day in office.

She advised the current administration that al-Qaeda was not a military organisation - it was an ideology that needed to be fought. '

daimoni · Mar 23, 2004, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
How many lives were lost because of protestors like him and Kerry, in Vietnam.
The Vietnam veterans have a few things to say about that statement of yours.

I know you refuse to admit it... but it was Kerry, unlike Bush (or Clinton for that matter) who actually went to Vietnam and served his country.

Just like my father did.

How many lives were lost so Bush and Clinton could sit Vietnam out?

That's the question you should be asking, you stupid ****ing idiotic piece of ****.

ghost_flash · Mar 23, 2004, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by daimoni:
I know you refuse to admit it... but it was Kerry, unlike Bush (or Clinton for that matter) who actually went to Vietnam and served his country.

Just like my father did.

How many lives were lost so Bush and Clinton could sit Vietnam out?

That's the question you should be asking, you stupid ****ing idiotic piece of ****.

Kerry is the one who went, killed for the USA, came back and tossed his "medals" at the whitehouse. He spit on the POWs he left behind. It is better to have never gone than to go and become a traitor.

Benedict Arnold was a war hero too, all the way up to the point where he SOLD OUT.
Now, over 200 years later, he is remembered as a Fcuking traitor. He did less than Kerry.

If you are going to use swear words to get your point across, then I shall meet you head on. We actually support our troops during wartime, unlike others who only do it as a matter of convenience.

http://www.vetsagainstkerry.org/

Lerkfish · Mar 23, 2004, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Kerry is the one who went, killed for the USA, came back and tossed his "medals" at the whitehouse. He spit on the POWs he left behind. It is better to have never gone than to go and become a traitor.

Benedict Arnold was a war hero too, all the way up to the point where he SOLD OUT.
Now, over 200 years later, he is remembered as a Fcuking traitor. He did less than Kerry.

If you are going to use swear words to get your point across, then I shall meet you head on. We actually support our troops during wartime, unlike others who only do it as a matter of convenience.

http://www.vetsagainstkerry.org/

I'm confused.....how exactly was Kerry a traitor?

daimoni · Mar 23, 2004, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Kerry is the one who went, killed for the USA, came back and tossed his "medals" at the whitehouse. He spit on the POWs he left behind. It is better to have never gone than to go and become a traitor.

After my father (a Green Beret) returned from active duty in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia he protested the war.

Are you going to call him a traitor too?

daimoni · Mar 23, 2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
I'm confused.....how exactly was Kerry a traitor?

In his ****ed up view of reality, a 'traitor' is a patriot who dared question a war that they actually fought in, while a 'patriot' is someone like Bush who dodged his duty.

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 01:59 PM

I have no problem with him protesting the war and throwing away his medals.

Just years down the road, don't try to use that same war as a great accomplishment and why you should be elected President.

It makes you look like a silly opportunist.

ghost_flash · Mar 23, 2004, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
I'm confused.....how exactly was Kerry a traitor?

You always say you are confused, when you cannot respond to legitimate posts.
It places the responsibility needlessly on the person you deem fit to ridicule.
Do your own reading for once, I'll post the links:

If you cannot see for yourself, then I cannot help you, just stay confused, like
all those that "e-mail" you these things you cut and paste so readily but don't
take credit for.

"I was just sent that in my e-mail."

I'm not confused at all.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...com/page2.html

daimoni · Mar 23, 2004, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I'm not confused at all.

Just delusional. And dim-witted, or shall I say Zim-witted.

Yes, I'm calling you names. Please report me.

ghost_flash · Mar 23, 2004, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by daimoni:
After my father (a Green Beret) returned from active duty in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia he protested the war.

Are you going to call him a traitor too?

Don't make this personal. That's childish. If your dad were running for President, I'd have to know more information about him and make an informed decision.

There are VETS that I am quoting who think Kerry a traitor. You got a problem with those men that served?

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by daimoni:
Just delusional. And dim-witted, or shall I say Zim-witted.

ghost_flash · Mar 23, 2004, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by daimoni:
Just delusional. And dim-witted, or shall I say Zim-witted.

Yes, I'm calling you names. Please report me.

Do you often go shooting your mouth off like that in public, and then say, go ahead hit me in the nuts?

That was close to a Lerk-ism... I feel feverish.

daimoni · Mar 23, 2004, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
There are VETS that I am quoting who think Kerry a traitor. You got a problem with those men that served?

Yes. I have a problem with the vets who refer to Kerry as a traitor after he more than proved himself in battle. Especially if they consider Bush a hero in comparison.

Remember, protesting a war != protesting your brothers in arms.

thunderous_funker · Mar 23, 2004, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Don't make this personal. That's childish. If your dad were running for President, I'd have to know more information about him and make an informed decision.

There are VETS that I am quoting who think Kerry a traitor. You got a problem with those men that served?

I sat next to a VET on the bus yesterday who explained to me that he knows a guy who knows a guy that can verify that the CIA planned and conducted the OK City bombing and 9/11. Apparently he has full documentation but couldn't show it to me because he had loaned it to a friend. He offered to contact me when he got it back so I could read the concrete evidence for myself.

VETS have all kinds of opinions. Just like everyone else.

Zimphire · Mar 23, 2004, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Do you often go shooting your mouth off like that in public, and then say, go ahead hit me in the nuts?

That was close to a Lerk-ism... I feel feverish.

Heh

daimoni · Mar 23, 2004, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
VETS have all kinds of opinions. Just like everyone else.

Our vet wants us to pay to have our cat's teeth cleaned.