[Zimphire]

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawac...3-c8c1792bcfc5

Pretty much how I see it. No matter what Israel does, it's going to be seen as bad by the haters.

[Nicko]

Ah, an op-ed piece from Canwest global media, aka Canada's version of FOX. How enlightening.

[Zimphire]

He showed that no matter what Israel does, the same people attack it. And that is factual.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
He showed that no matter what Israel does, the same people attack it. And that is factual.

I suggest you apply for

A) Citizenship in Israel
B) Circumcision

(not necessarily in that order)

[edit: oh I forget - even Christian USAsians get their foreskin snipped - plan A for you then Zimphire]

[benb]

Originally posted by voodoo:
I suggest you apply for

A) Citizenship in Israel
B) Circumcision

(not necessarily in that order)

[edit: oh I forget - even Christian USAsians get their foreskin snipped - plan A for you then Zimphire]

What?

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
He showed that no matter what Israel does, the same people attack it. And that is factual.

No it's not factual. It's BS. It only serves to make you and others feel better about yourselves when dealing with those who hold a different opinion from you.

I want to see a resolution to the conflict. Many 'pro-palestinians' on this board have often highlighted points of error within the PA as well as in the Israeli government.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by benb:
What?

What what?

[Nicko]

Originally posted by voodoo:
What what?

What....what what.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by voodoo:
I suggest you apply for

A) Citizenship in Israel

Naw, I wouldn't want some Palestinian blowing me up just because I was Christian.

B) Circumcision

Happened when I was born.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
No it's not factual. It's BS. It only serves to make you and others feel better about yourselves when dealing with those who hold a different opinion from you.

Indeed it is true.

"The same applies to international opinion. In many quarters, dislike of Israel seems unconnected to any particular policy the Jewish state undertakes. In the 1980s, Israel was condemned for refusing to accept a two-state solution. In the 1990s, after accepting in principle a two-state solution, Israel was condemned for not acquiescing to national suicide and allowing Palestinian refugees to flood Israel proper. Israelis learned long ago that showing restraint in the face of terrorism earns them no favour, either with the United Nations or with the terrorists."

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Naw, I wouldn't want some Palestinian blowing me up just because I was Christian.
[/b]
Happened when I was born. [/B]

Ya I edited my post -

Your post is filled with hatred. Racism. Tsk tsk.

Do you really think a potential killer (from Palestine) would ask you if you are Christian and if you'd say yes he'd kill you?

Just point him to me - I'll tell him you're not Christian.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Ya I edited my post -

Your post is filled with hatred. Racism. Tsk tsk.

Hate? Where is there hate? Racism? Do some palistinians not blow people up that are against their religion? Yes, yes indeed.

Do you really think a potential killer (from Palestine) would ask you if you are Christian and if you'd say yes he'd kill you?

No, he'd just take his chances. They are too cowardly to actually make a attempt at asking.

[Monique]

I am a Christian that want to be a Jew because I admire the Jews a lot, their courage and the fact that they continue to be proud no matter what.

There are 6 million and more reasons why the killing of that guy is justified.

It is about time Israel hit back against the terrorists.

Anyway the Palestians love to complain instead of changing their lives.

Israel is there to stay to the foes get over it.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Monique:
I am a Christian that want to be a Jew because I admire the Jews a lot, their courage and the fact that they continue to be proud no matter what.

There are 6 million and more reasons why the killing of that guy is justified.

It is about time Israel hit back against the terrorists.

Anyway the Palestians love to complain instead of changing their lives.

Israel is there to stay to the foes get over it.

No one is stopping you baby

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Monique:
I am a Christian that want to be a Jew because I admire the Jews a lot, their courage and the fact that they continue to be proud no matter what.

There are 6 million and more reasons why the killing of that guy is justified.

It is about time Israel hit back against the terrorists.

Anyway the Palestians love to complain instead of changing their lives.

Israel is there to stay to the foes get over it.

So...

Palestine is a terrorist Nation? As in "complaining through terrorism"? Palestinians are complainers? All of them?

And how should they change their lives Monique?

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawac...3-c8c1792bcfc5

Pretty much how I see it. No matter what Israel does, it's going to be seen as bad by the haters.

you need to label anyone who disagrees with you a "hater"? Can't they just be someone who disagrees with you?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
you need to label anyone who disagrees with you a "hater"? Can't they just be someone who disagrees with you?

No, not everyone that disagrees with me is a hater.

When did I ever label EVERYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH ME as a hater Lerk?

Be honest in your posts please.

[quandarry]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No, not everyone that disagrees with me is a hater.

When did I ever label EVERYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH ME as a hater Lerk?

Be honest in your posts please.

fixed.


The Israeli government is NOT moral. Stop denuding yourself.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by quandarry:
fixed.
The Israeli government is NOT moral. Stop denuding yourself.

denuding huh.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
He showed that no matter what Israel does, the same people attack it. And that is factual.

Just because somebody says something is so, doesn't necessarily make it so ... no matter how badly you want to believe it is so.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Just because somebody says something is so, doesn't necessarily make it so ... no matter how badly you want to believe it is so.

No. the facts speak for themselves. I don't have to.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No. the facts speak for themselves. I don't have to.

"Facts" do not speak for themselves. "Facts" can be presented and interpreted in MANY different ways ... they can even be used to speak for you when you are unwilling or unable to speak/think for yourself.

The problem with presenting "facts" is that the presenter often neglects "facts" that do not support their theory/belief or even contradict it directly

I'm sure I could very easily draw up a list of "facts" to "prove" that no matter what Palestinians do, the same people will attack them. But we both know that wouldn't be entirely true.

[Zimphire]

Wisk FACTS are, no matter what Israel does, there is going to be people against it for the simple fact that IS EXISTS.

Now, you can delude yourself and pretend this isn't true.

But that doesn't change the facts. Esp when people and groups have claimed OTHERWISE.

Now go, scat.

[christ]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
FACTS are, no matter what Israel does, there is going to be people against it for the simple fact that IS EXISTS...

This is true (well, actually "no matter what Israel does, there are going to be people against it for the simple fact that IT EXISTS" is true).

It is true, because there are people that deny that Israel (as a country) has the right to exist.

(This is completely distinct, however, from anti-semitism , or wishing that Jews didn't exist.)

Israel as a country was created in highly dubious circumstances, apparently to assuage a guilt, in the wake of the abominable treatment of Jewry in WWII. Some people think that this was the wrong way to go about salving guilty consciences.

Israel has no right to exist, and has no right to act as it pleases in order that it continue to exist. These, too, are simple FACTS. These are FACTS that I don't hear you trumpetting from the rooftops though, Zimph.

Selective presentation of FACTS dilutes their impact.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by christ:
This is true (well, actually "no matter what Israel does, there are going to be people against it for the simple fact that IT EXISTS" is true).

It is true, because there are people that deny that Israel (as a country) has the right to exist.

And I respect you for admitting that.

(This is completely distinct, however, from anti-semitism , or wishing that Jews didn't exist.)

Of course it is. But a lot of the time, both go hand in hand.

Israel as a country was created in highly dubious circumstances, apparently to assuage a guilt, in the wake of the abominable treatment of Jewry in WWII. Some people think that this was the wrong way to go about salving guilty consciences.

And those people have the right to their opinions.

Israel has no right to exist, and has no right to act as it pleases in order that it continue to exist.

And you also have the right to your opinion. Having said that, I don't think Israel has a right to act as it pleases. But it does have the right to defend itself from looneys that don't think it should exist.

These, too, are simple FACTS.

No, those are opinions.

These are FACTS that I don't hear you trumpetting from the rooftops though, Zimph.

Because they are subjective opinions.

[christ]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
...admitting that.

Be careful - "there are people" does not imply that I am one of them.

No, those are opinions.

No, those are facts.

Israel exists. Not by right, but by decree of some arcane body. Israel has no 'right' to exist.

Israel acts as it pleases - that does not give it the right to do so - it has no such right. It should act within international law, as should the US. Might does not make right.

PS I agree with you that "[Israel] does have the right to defend itself from [aggressors]", but I don't believe that pre-emptive or illegal action is warranted, as that takes away what should be the moral high ground, and removes the rectitude from their actions elsewhere.

I think that all countries have the right to defend themseves against terrorism - they just should not use this right to justify the unjustifiable actions of a bunch of zealots. That applies to my government, your government, the Palestinian authority, and Israel's government. When governments act illegally then rather than achieving their stated aims, they achieve exactly the opposite. Killing people without trial is illegal, and so is invading other countries without legal justification.

[Zimphire]

No the fact you don't think Israel should exist is an opinion indeed.

I believe Israel should exist. And it does.

Bite the pillow.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Wisk FACTS are, no matter what Israel does, there is going to be people against it for the simple fact that IS EXISTS.

That is opinion/speculation, not fact. Just because you call something a fact doesn't make it a fact, no matter how badly you wish to believe it is a fact.

You don't do so good at debate when you're on your own ...

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
That is opinion/speculation, not fact. Just because you call something a fact doesn't make it a fact, no matter how badly you wish to believe it is a fact.

Again, I repeat:

It is a fact because many people have said they will not be happy till Israel is gone, and nothing short of Israel being gone will make them happy. And many groups has as well.

THAT MAKES IT A FACT.

I noticed you left out that part in your reply. Ignoring the FACTS doesn't make it not FACTUAL

At least the poster known as christ isn't so deluded to recognize that FACT.

Let me quote what he has said

This is true (well, actually "no matter what Israel does, there are going to be people against it for the simple fact that IT EXISTS" is true).

See, even HE can admit to that.

You don't do so good at debate when you're on your own ...

Coming from someone that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again even after being proved wrong. You are in no position to be telling people they aren't very good at debating when it's obvious just in this thread a lone you plain all out suck at it.

So unless you can come up with some FACTS proving otherwise, scat.

Either put up or shut up.

[christ]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No the fact you don't think Israel should exist is an opinion indeed.

I believe Israel should exist. And it does.

Bite the pillow.

You missed the point (perhaps accidentally)

I do think that Israel should exist (although I fail to see why my opinion is important to you). I just have stated the fact that it doesn't have a 'right' to exist. I am not convinced that Israel should exist within its current boundaries, or even within those agreed in 1948, but those are my opinions, not the FACTS to which I referred earlier, and that you appear to be disputing by the simple, yet useless, act of unjustified contradiction.

And I'm nowhere near a pillow - so I don't understand your point - surely you wouldn't be making some obscure reference to homosexual activities? Please explain your usage of this phrase.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Coming from someone that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again even after being proved wrong.

I'm sorry, but until you stop trying to pass opinion off as fact, I'll have to continue calling you on it.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
I'm sorry, but until you stop trying to pass opinion off as fact, I'll have to continue calling you on it.

You haven't called me on anything Wisk. I wasn't passing off opinion as fact. I was passing off fact as fact.

Again, prove me wrong. Please. Prove me wrong.

You haven't came up with anything besides repeating the same verbal masturbation over and over again.


The poster known as christ said the SAME THING. What are you "calling him on it" as well?

Again, either put up (Show facts proving I am wrong) or shut up.

[christ]

Hey Zimph - leave 'jak alone and tell me about this pillow thing.

[Zimphire]

"We must expel all Israelis from Palestine. Because Israel – there is nothing called 'Israel' in the world. The Israelis [came] from Holland, America, Iran."

On the intifada:
"We must always remember that our enemy is the Israeli occupation, and it is incumbent upon us to continue to struggle against it through the blessed intifada... Only the intifada can carry our nation to a more advanced stage."
--- Farouk Qaddumi, head of the P.L.O.'s Political Department (Ha'aretz, 16 December 1994)

"We must remember that the main enemy of the Palestinian people, now and forever, is Israel. This is a truth that must never leave our minds."
--- Palestinian Authority Justice Minister Freih Abu Middein, speaking at Al Azhar University in Gaza. (Al-Nahar, 11 April 1995; The Jerusalem Post, 17 April 1995)

"Jerusalem is under occupation and the Moslems of the world should liberate it by jihad and put it under Islamic and Arabic authority. The jihad is not just a war jihad - we are talking about all means to get back Jerusalem."
--- Sheikh Akram Sabri, the Palestinian Authority-appointed mufti (Muslim religious leader) of Jerusalem, in an interview with the London-based Arabic newspaper Al-Sharq al-Awsat. (Al-Sharq al-Awsat, 7 April 1995; The Jerusalem Post, 3 May 1995)


''The first thing we learned growing up was to hate Jews,'' Walid recalled. ''I’ll never forgot the first song I learned in school, ‘Arabs our beloved and Jews our dogs.’ I used to wonder at that time who the Jews were, but repeated the words with the rest of the kids without any knowledge of the meaning.''

Soon after the Six-Day-War, his father transferred him to a school in Bethlehem ''where I grew in the faith of Islam, in which I was fed the idea that one day a fulfillment of an ancient prophecy by the Muslim prophet Mohammed would come to pass,'' recalled Shoebat. ''The prophecy foretold a battle in which the Holy Land would be recaptured and the elimination of the Jews would take place in a massive slaughter. 'The day of judgment shall not come to pass until a tribe of Muslims defeat a tribe of Jews,' it said, 'in Jerusalem and the surrounding nations.' ''


I could go on..

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by christ:
You missed the point (perhaps accidentally)

I do think that Israel should exist (although I fail to see why my opinion is important to you). I just have stated the fact that it doesn't have a 'right' to exist.

I guess we will agree to disagree.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by christ:
Hey Zimph - leave 'jak alone and tell me about this pillow thing.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...+biter&f=1

[christ]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...+biter&f=1

Thanks - I guess that constitutes a personal attack - I thought that you considered yourself above such things. Very Christian of you.

You disgust me.

And the smiley makes things worse, not better.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by christ:
Thanks - I guess that constitutes a personal attack - I thought that you considered yourself above such things. Very Christian of you.

You disgust me.

And the smiley makes things worse, not better.

No, it's just a saying.

I find it hard to believe you are THAT big of a drama queen.

[christ]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No, it's just a saying.

Apparently not - think about what you write, rather than writing 'just' sayings, and you will cause less offence.

I find it hard to believe you are THAT big of a drama queen.

There you go with the queen thing again - are you really that obsessed with homosexuality?

Just let it out, you will feel better for it.

[Zimphire]

Drama Queen has nothing to do with homosexuality.



Neither does over-reacting and knee jerking.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Fixed.

[Zimphire]

Oh the irony.

[Monique]

Talking about anti semitism I was just on the train today in Calgary and there was this so called Christian girl and she was taking 3 quarter of the seat with her legs crossed, her bag spread across the seat and reading the Bible, when it came time for her to leave I got up and made sure she had enough space to get out. When she left I told her that I was a Jew; I know that she did not get it and that I am not a Jew officially but it shows that Jews are a lot more generous and more accomodating than others.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Monique:
Talking about anti semitism I was just on the train today in Calgary and there was this so called Christian girl and she was taking 3 quarter of the seat with her legs crossed, her bag spread across the seat and reading the Bible, when it came time for her to leave I got up and made sure she had enough space to get out. When she left I told her that I was a Jew; I know that she did not get it and that I am not a Jew officially but it shows that Jews are a lot more generous and more accomodating than others.

That is one piece of scrap-o-rama of an ethnocentric judgement to reduce to religion a stupid, common, universal and rude behavior...

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Monique:
Talking about anti semitism I was just on the train today in Calgary and there was this so called Christian girl and she was taking 3 quarter of the seat with her legs crossed, her bag spread across the seat and reading the Bible, when it came time for her to leave I got up and made sure she had enough space to get out. When she left I told her that I was a Jew; I know that she did not get it and that I am not a Jew officially but it shows that Jews are a lot more generous and more accomodating than others.

Just so that I can understand you correctly, it is anti-semitic to not make room on the bus for someone pretending to be a Jew? How does someone pretending to be a Jew prove that Jews are a lot more generous and accomdating than others and that others are anti-semitic? Perhaps it's just me, but I think posing as a Jew is much more anti-semitic.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Monique:
Talking about anti semitism I was just on the train today in Calgary and there was this so called Christian girl and she was taking 3 quarter of the seat with her legs crossed, her bag spread across the seat and reading the Bible, when it came time for her to leave I got up and made sure she had enough space to get out. When she left I told her that I was a Jew; I know that she did not get it and that I am not a Jew officially but it shows that Jews are a lot more generous and more accomodating than others.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Monique:
Talking about anti semitism I was just on the train today in Calgary and there was this so called Christian girl and she was taking 3 quarter of the seat with her legs crossed, her bag spread across the seat and reading the Bible, when it came time for her to leave I got up and made sure she had enough space to get out. When she left I told her that I was a Jew; I know that she did not get it and that I am not a Jew officially but it shows that Jews are a lot more generous and more accomodating than others.

[shmerek]

Originally posted by Monique:
Talking about anti semitism I was just on the train today in Calgary and there was this so called Christian girl and she was taking 3 quarter of the seat with her legs crossed, her bag spread across the seat and reading the Bible, when it came time for her to leave I got up and made sure she had enough space to get out. When she left I told her that I was a Jew; I know that she did not get it and that I am not a Jew officially but it shows that Jews are a lot more generous and more accomodating than others.

WTF? Time for some professional help I would say.

ps. You have always been yapping about how much you hate Canada, my question to you is why haven't you left yet?

[christ]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Drama Queen has nothing to do with homosexuality.

?

So you often call male posters 'queens', without meaning?

This seems to sum up your attitude to posting - words with no (intentional) meaning

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by christ:
?

So you often call male posters 'queens', without meaning?

This seems to sum up your attitude to posting - words with no (intentional) meaning

although I can't speak for zim's intent, the term "drama queen" in the states does not HAVE to have homosexual connotations. It really just refers to anyone who is being overly melodramatic.